Wyatt's name

[peytonmarie]

Why did no one suggest the name Warren for Piper's son? Even if they didn't go with it, it seems like an obvious one to consider.

Furthermore, do you think Wyatt and Chris taking their names from Leo's side and not Piper's was another element of the show becoming more male- and Whitelighter-centric?

I know a lot of fans dislike the shift of focus toward Piper's children; would you have liked/tolerated it better if the emphasis was placed more on their Warren heritage?

[Granny Charmed]

I would not be surprised at all that Kern wanted them to take Leo's name, but If Piper had a daughter, I have a hunch of course her daughter would take Piper's name.

Because they barely did much with the Warren heritage after S3. Although I'll admit, I think someone brought up that we did get a mention of a Warren in an episode of Season 7.

I'd have been so much happier if Piper had a daughter and not a son. If we had to have children on the show, of course, I'd want it to be a daughter and not a son that Piper has.

I'm sure many fans would have appreciated that especially letting the series be female-centric. But that might have been what Connie would have done, but not Kern dears.

[peytonmarie]

All valid points, Granny. The way Kern and Connie would've handled things couldn't be more different and Kern's approach was insufferable. I wholeheartedly wish Connie had stayed and he'd been fired.

That said, I didn't mind Piper having a boy. It was a fun inversion of expectation. Personally, I don't think Melinda should ever exist. Everything else from that future - good and bad - was lost. She should be, too. The only time I specifically wished they were girls was in Chris-Crossed (my most hated episode). I feel a daughter would've been more respectful of Piper's body and not treated her as an incubator.

What I didn't like about Wyatt was a) his power, and b) his importance.

a) I can accept him being so powerful. He was born on a Sabbath above the Nexus while the planets were aligned. I can accept him having specific powers never before seen in the Warren line or Whitelighters (Melinda Warren was born to mortals and had three gifts, after all.) What I don't like is that he's an immensely powerful Whitelighter, not a witch. Almost every gift he displays involves orbing. What's more, his power develops before personality, morality, talking, making decisions, etc. He's power incarnate. He's not a legitimate character whose choices affect the plot.

b) The story centers around him, not the sisters. Boy or girl, it's not true to the show's premise. And again, it's not because of *him* but his power. They could've so easily avoided the situation with the Cleaners if they had just bound his powers. And why didn't they? How is a baby/toddler supposed to understand and control his magic anyway? He was used to summon the Hollow and bring the Source back to life, for crying out loud! A superpowered baby was as dangerous as it was unnecessary.

I would've liked Wyatt a lot more if he was just a baby who hadn't come into his powers yet. And that when he did, he'd be more witch than Whitelighter.

[Assassin Witch]

I like that they named the firstborn "Wyatt." It was never in question that their children would be anything but a Halliwell. So using Leo's last name as first, I love.

With Chris, we do not know his middle name. I headcanon his full name to be Christopher Victor Halliwell. (And Perry is Bianca's last name.) So he was named after both grandfathers.

The actual naming of the kids was well done.

[peytonmarie]

Ooh, I love your headcanon for Chris' name!

Even for a girl, I like Wyatt as a given name. It's quirky. And it's certainly a lovely gesture for Leo.

I think if the focus hadn't shifted so far away from the witch lineage, the names would be especially meaningful. With what we got, the names feel symptomatic of Kern's agenda.

[Elle Em]

Mar 6, 2019 10:14:31 GMT -5 peytonmarie said:

All valid points, Granny. The way Kern and Connie would've handled things couldn't be more different and Kern's approach was insufferable. I wholeheartedly wish Connie had stayed and he'd been fired.

That said, I didn't mind Piper having a boy. It was a fun inversion of expectation. Personally, I don't think Melinda should ever exist. Everything else from that future - good and bad - was lost. She should be, too. The only time I specifically wished they were girls was in Chris-Crossed (my most hated episode). I feel a daughter would've been more respectful of Piper's body and not treated her as an incubator.

What I didn't like about Wyatt was a) his power, and b) his importance.

a) I can accept him being so powerful. He was born on a Sabbath above the Nexus while the planets were aligned. I can accept him having specific powers never before seen in the Warren line or Whitelighters (Melinda Warren was born to mortals and had three gifts, after all.) What I don't like is that he's an immensely powerful Whitelighter, not a witch. Almost every gift he displays involves orbing. What's more, his power develops before personality, morality, talking, making decisions, etc. He's power incarnate. He's not a legitimate character whose choices affect the plot.

b) The story centers around him, not the sisters. Boy or girl, it's not true to the show's premise. And again, it's not because of *him* but his power. They could've so easily avoided the situation with the Cleaners if they had just bound his powers. And why didn't they? How is a baby/toddler supposed to understand and control his magic anyway? He was used to summon the Hollow and bring the Source back to life, for crying out loud! A superpowered baby was as dangerous as it was unnecessary.

I would've liked Wyatt a lot more if he was just a baby who hadn't come into his powers yet. And that when he did, he'd be more witch than Whitelighter.

I agree, especially with your point about him basically being power incarnate. He was a very quiet baby and toddler, and so we couldn't really discern much at all about his personality. His main character trait was his powers. One of the things that's still interesting about the show to this day is watching each of the sisters deal with magic in their own unique ways. They have personalities that add to their experience of being witches, whereas Wyatt was pretty much just defined by his powers only. 

And while I would have preferred a girl to keep the feminine aspects of the show alive and well, I cared less about the gender of the baby as much as I did the focus on the baby, and then on just Piper's family. This was thrown even more out of balance because of Wyatt supposedly being more powerful than his mom and aunts, completely ignoring everything in the show that came before it. 

And yes, the whole whitelighter touch to nearly everything in the later seasons had Kern written all over it. 

[peytonmarie]

You're so right, Elle! The real spark was seeing the sisters' personalities and the way their powers both reflected them and helped them grow. Come to think of it, Wyatt's introduction coincides with the change from "sisters who happen to be witches" to "witches who happen to be sisters." Magic took precedence over humanity in later seasons.

[rebooted]

I gotta say. I don't like the child actor(s) that were used to play Wyatt.

I did like Baby Chris's.

[peytonmarie]

Baby Chris was so pudgy and round! He was adorable.

I wouldn't even know what to say about the kid(s) playing Wyatt. All he ever did was stand there silently. It made for a pretty creepy child... never running around, playing, making any noise... He just stares at you. With the power to shrink you and trap you in a dollhouse... *shudder*

"I kind of like this whole think-it-and-it-happens deal," - warlock Phoebe, S3.

Is Wyatt a warlock? He performs some serious feats of magic without ever casting actual spells.

Back on point, child actors are rarely any good. Although Little Prue and Little Piper were delightful. They should've jumped forward in time a few years if they really wanted to include children. That way, the kids could actually talk and interact.

[Esmeralda]

Mar 6, 2019 22:43:58 GMT -5 rebooted said:

I gotta say. I don't like the child actor(s) that were used to play Wyatt.

I did like Baby Chris's.

That's funny. Because I loved the boy twins who played Baby and Young Wyatt while hating the girl twins who played Baby Chris. The boys who played Young Chris were better, but not fat fugly Baby Chris! No wonder they hardly showed him!

[Melinda Halliwell]

Baby Chris was actually played by a girl I read somewhere. Fun fact.

[rebooted]

But yes, 

I would have loved if Wyatt was Warren and Chris was Melinda, follwed by Charlotte

[summerreading]

Mar 7, 2019 20:24:03 GMT -5 rebooted said:

But yes, 

I would have loved if Wyatt was Warren and Chris was Melinda, follwed by Charlotte

That would have been great. I'll still wish that any sister that had a child waited until the end of the series, but if we HAD to have a child, I'd love if Wyatt was a girl. 

[rebooted]

Mar 7, 2019 20:28:50 GMT -5 summerreading said:

Mar 7, 2019 20:24:03 GMT -5 rebooted said:

But yes, 

I would have loved if Wyatt was Warren and Chris was Melinda, follwed by Charlotte

That would have been great. I'll still wish that any sister that had a child waited until the end of the series, but if we HAD to have a child, I'd love if Wyatt was a girl. 

I wonder if Constance. ever thought about the sisters becoming mothers. Esp since it was a Season 1 and 2 theme in Secrets & Guys and then Reckless Abandoned

At that time Phoebe was the most natural with the babies too. I don't know how, although, I think Freebie must have babysat.

Did Connie envision Prue, Piper or Phoebe having kids and I wonder how she would have treated Paige...but I don't think she would have thought that far ahead...!

[Elle Em]

I think at the time, the common thing was to give women kids or have them want kids. I can actually see none of them really wanting to be mothers, though. Prue was a mother to her sisters, so I can understand her wanting to not have kids because she's just tired. I can see Phoebe wanting kids but not being a good mother because she's selfish. And Piper never seemed like she wanted them either. I think she fell in love with Melinda from the alternate future and got it in her head that she could be real. Then I think she just wanted them because she was married, and it's what a lot of people do.

Side note: all this talk about first and last names makes me wish that their original last name had always been Halliwell. It's such a cool name compared to Warren, which isn't that appealing to me and sounds way more masculine.

[peytonmarie]

Mar 8, 2019 4:56:51 GMT -5 rebooted said:

Did Connie envision Prue, Piper or Phoebe having kids and I wonder how she would have treated Paige...but I don't think she would have thought that far ahead...!

The idea of Prue having children never felt right to me. She already had kids, Piper and Phoebe. Her life was basically lived in reverse. Mature parent-role during her "childhood" and now as an adult, free to put herself first. There was a lot of this in S3; Prue breaking away from her sense of obligation to the family and pursuing her own desires. (The tragic thing is she never quite managed it. Once she accepted that Piper and Phoebe didn't need her anymore, she simply shifted the sense of duty onto being a Charmed One. And it got her killed.)

Phoebe was certainly the most natural with children. I could definitely see her having kids but not getting married. I could see her in a committed relationship where they don't feel the need to "make it official" despite pressure of their families.

Piper's whole storyline of marrying Leo and having a baby felt forced to me. It was so influenced by what she saw in the future, it felt like she loved the idea of it more than the actual people. I think she would've married someone non-magical if not for seeing that future.

Paige adopting a kid was perfect. But... after being a social worker, a Charmed One, a Whitelighter, a headmistress, and a heavily-involved aunt... Would she want yet more people to take care of? When we meet her, she's young and sorely tempted to go to Australia with Glenn but she's having to get used to having responsibilities. She's kind of like Prue in that way. She missed her opportunity to be young.

Regardless, I think Connie would've left at least one sister childless. No neatly packaged flashforward where each of them is married with three kids.

[peytonmarie]

Mar 8, 2019 8:28:23 GMT -5 Elle Em said:

Side note: all this talk about first and last names makes me wish that their original last name had always been Halliwell. It's such a cool name compared to Warren, which isn't that appealing to me and sounds way more masculine.

Halliwell is a gorgeous name! Although I do like that Melinda had a different surname. It makes the ancestry feel distant.

[Elle Em]

Mar 8, 2019 8:45:54 GMT -5 peytonmarie said:

Mar 8, 2019 4:56:51 GMT -5 rebooted said:

Did Connie envision Prue, Piper or Phoebe having kids and I wonder how she would have treated Paige...but I don't think she would have thought that far ahead...!

The idea of Prue having children never felt right to me. She already had kids, Piper and Phoebe. Her life was basically lived in reverse. Mature parent-role during her "childhood" and now as an adult, free to put herself first. There was a lot of this in S3; Prue breaking away from her sense of obligation to the family and pursuing her own desires. (The tragic thing is she never quite managed it. Once she accepted that Piper and Phoebe didn't need her anymore, she simply shifted the sense of duty onto being a Charmed One. And it got her killed.)

Phoebe was certainly the most natural with children. I could definitely see her having kids but not getting married. I could see her in a committed relationship where they don't feel the need to "make it official" despite pressure of their families.

Piper's whole storyline of marrying Leo and having a baby felt forced to me. It was so influenced by what she saw in the future, it felt like she loved the idea of it more than the actual people. I think she would've married someone non-magical if not for seeing that future.

Paige adopting a kid was perfect. But... after being a social worker, a Charmed One, a Whitelighter, a headmistress, and a heavily-involved aunt... Would she want yet more people to take care of? When we meet her, she's young and sorely tempted to go to Australia with Glenn but she's having to get used to having responsibilities. She's kind of like Prue in that way. She missed her opportunity to be young.

Regardless, I think Connie would've left at least one sister childless. No neatly packaged flashforward where each of them is married with three kids.

That's very sad but quite true about Prue. I don't think she knew how to live without being responsible for someone else. If she had lived, it would have been interesting for that to be explored. Maybe she gives so much of herself to magic that Piper and Phoebe step in and have to really work with her to help her live her life for herself. I could see that being a major arc for Prue in season 4.

I think Phoebe had great potential as a mother. She truly seemed to enjoy kids, but I just never saw a time when she seemed right for it. She was too immature at the outset. In season 2 she was the least selfish and most grown up to me, but too young with too much else to do for herself, like go to school and such. And most of the rest of the series, she was just too selfish to me. Had she developed into a better person, I think she could believably put her wild days behind her and be a good mother.

I agree about Piper. I think similar to Prue, Piper didn't get much time when she was young to be selfish. Even for all Prue did for them, I think Piper spent quite a bit of time being a mediator between her and Phoebe. Also, we know she was shy and awkward as a teenager, and didn't get much time as a normal adult before becoming a witch. I think she was happiest when she was unattached romantically and was just free to live her life while being more comfortable with who she was.

I can see Paige being a good mom, but like you said, I don't know that she'd want to. She's got plenty to do already, and being a witch did disrupt her 20s. 

[peytonmarie]

Agreed, Elle. I never thought of that with Piper but I think you're right. Being caught in between Prue and Phoebe all those years couldn't have been fun. Plus, in Pre-Witched she seemed to be the one taking the most care of Grams! Even working a miserable job just to pay the bills instead of pursuing her dreams.

Of the four, I think Phoebe had the most opportunity to explore life. She went to New York and even after she came back, she got to be unemployed and then got to go back to school while Prue and Piper paid for everything. Maybe that's why she's the only one who strikes me as having children later. She's the only one who never got stuck taking care of somebody before.

[Elle Em]

Good point about Phoebe. She was taken care of the longest. She wouldn't know what it was like to be responsible for someone else like any of her sisters. I can see her viewing the idea of kids as an adventure, while any one of her sisters might see it as tiring.