forbuss
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currently watching season seven
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Post by forbuss on Aug 24, 2019 21:17:43 GMT -5
I think we should collectively work together to pinpoint exactly when this happened, continued, stopped, continued, got worse, so on and so forth. Full credit to Es for the term “PhoeME.”
I want to open by saying Phoebe is, and always has been, my favourite Halliwell. Sure, I love her more certain periods than others, but overall, I love and identify with Phoebe. I also don’t believe these low points had anything to do with Alyssa Milano, as I believe she is a capable actress (the exception being “Charmed Again” parts one and two).
I will start things off. I just rewatched season 6 and 7.
Season 6 (entirety, except for maybe the moment she did the vision quest) showed Phoebe use her powers for personal gain over and over.
Season seven - I didn’t notice Phoebe using her powers for personal gain at all this season. No premonitions to find the father of her child. Seemed to return to Phoebe.
Let’s do this!! I will compile the actual timeline.
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rebooted
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Started watching at 12
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Post by rebooted on Aug 24, 2019 21:46:11 GMT -5
I was thinking abut this the other day and I do think a timeline would be really good to put together.
But I think the Evolution of PhoeMe is cumulative from even before Phoebe becomes a Charmed One.
In the beginning, Phoebe is the least responsible sister. She doesn't fear consequences. She read the incantation without calling for Prue and Piper.
Up to that point of returning back home and becoming witches - Phoebe really had no purpose or persuit of her own - being Charmed gave her that and allowed her to get closer to her sisters, work as part of a team, help other people (Aviva etc.) as she thought being Charmed was a blessing the most at the very beginning.
But Phoebe before being Charmed was a rebel, did not have any responsibilities. It was always about her until she starting saving innocents.
Remember that she would have had abandonment issues with Victor leaving, and Patty and then Grams as well as Prue distincing herself because of the Roger thing.
So when Prue and Cole die - after all they had been through, then they fulfill their destiny of vanquishing the Source. What is she supposed to do? Piper gets on with motherhood and Leo issues and Paige is where Phoebe was 3 years ago, trying to understand witchcraft and her bigger purpose. So she hides herself at work, materialism and is overly lustrous with a string of men.
What was Phoebe to do after Season 4? How does she reset or have faith in the system so many pre-Charmed and post-Charmed loses.
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Post by Katie Warren on Aug 25, 2019 0:05:16 GMT -5
I think we should collectively work together to pinpoint exactly when this happened, continued, stopped, continued, got worse, so on and so forth. Full credit to Es for the term “PhoeME.” I want to open by saying Phoebe is, and always has been, my favourite Halliwell. Sure, I love her more certain periods than others, but overall, I love and identify with Phoebe. I also don’t believe these low points had anything to do with Alyssa Milano, as I believe she is a capable actress (the exception being “Charmed Again” parts one and two). I will start things off. I just rewatched season 6 and 7. Season 6 (entirety, except for maybe the moment she did the vision quest) showed Phoebe use her powers for personal gain over and over. Season seven - I didn’t notice Phoebe using her powers for personal gain at all this season. No premonitions to find the father of her child. Seemed to return to Phoebe. Let’s do this!! I will compile the actual timeline. S3 marked the turn of Phoebe becoming PhoeME, when she lied to her sisters about Cole and constantly put Cole above them many times. But, in episodes like Pre-Witched, she was the Phoebe we loved, when Cole wasn't around. But didn't make a difference in S5-S8, when he was gone, the damage to her character was done. I'm curious what times she was the Phoebe we loved, in S3-S8, after meeting Cole? Any episodes traces of the Phoebs and not PhoeME. Be interesting to find out in the board re-watches as we move along. |
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Post by Elle Em on Aug 25, 2019 7:15:22 GMT -5
So when Prue and Cole die - after all they had been through, then they fulfill their destiny of vanquishing the Source. What is she supposed to do? Piper gets on with motherhood and Leo issues and Paige is where Phoebe was 3 years ago, trying to understand witchcraft and her bigger purpose. So she hides herself at work, materialism and is overly lustrous with a string of men. What was Phoebe to do after Season 4? How does she reset or have faith in the system so many pre-Charmed and post-Charmed loses. You have a good point. Ideally, I would have liked to see her own up to her choices in season 4, whether that be through talking it through with her sisters and really taking time to understand what she did and try to make it better, or even just showing her struggling for a while as she has trouble dealing with that she did. But I get it. If I were her, I wouldn't want to face it either. It makes total sense that she focused on things like work and men and ignored what she did. I've said before that being a witch was necessary for Phoebe in a way that it wasn't for the others. It helped Prue figure out how to be herself rather than who she felt like she had to be. It helped Paige feel a sense of connection, although that was really about finding her birth family more than magic. I think Piper would have been better off without it. But for Phoebe, it redefined her entire life. She had no direction before it like her sisters did. She enjoyed magic and really saw the beauty of it in a way that the others didn't. So I'm trying to put myself in her shoes and think about how it would feel to have my magical destiny seemingly complete and be newly single after a relationship gone horribly wrong. In one vanquish, she lost Cole and her destiny of vanquishing the Source. So I guess it makes sense for her to want to replace those things as quickly as possible to fill the void. Work is the new destiny, and whatever new man she finds is the new Cole. In answer to the question of the thread, PhoeMe really began for me when she let Cole go and lied to her sisters. There may have been the foundations for PhoeMe already laid down by her being the youngest and the least responsible, etc. But there's no doubt that she grew in season 1 and became quite a lovely person in season 2. I just don't know what was so great about a man she had known for a few months to make her want to risk ruining her relationship with her sisters over. I like the idea of a forbidden relationship, but the writers spent more time having them be in that relationship rather than build it up, thus making Phoebe into someone selfish enough to do what she did in season 3. |
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Aug 25, 2019 11:55:57 GMT -5
Yeah when Phoebe didn't tell her sisters she faked Cole's death or the fact sometimes when she was with him before that she cared more about him than protecting innocents was her starting becoming PhoeMe I think.
This got worse season 4 from her's and Cole's arc and once she became a celebrity when saving innocents kept her from work then.
She blamed Cole a lot in season 5 for things he hadn't done because he was once evil instead of sitting down thinking things through actually instead.
This stopped season 7 when Drake came in and she became season 1 and 2 Phoebe we knew and loved for a bit but not long before it continued again obviously.
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Post by gzv969 on Aug 25, 2019 19:00:34 GMT -5
Seasons 1 to mid season 4 (pre “Charmed and Dangerous”), were the seasons and time that Phoebe was the phoebe we loved, with the exception that she had a soft spot for Cole and she was willing to lie for him that sometimes put him first over her sisters. But phoebe always never wanted her sisters messing with her relationships even prior to being charmed so I never faulted her for that . And besides that never hindered her or deterred her from her love of being a charmed one. Innocents still came first.
2nd half of Season 4 till the end of the season - Cole takes in the Source and between her pregnancy and the seers tonic, it all starts messing with phoebes head. Her worst fears of season 2 come true. That fear of her being evil. She slightly enjoyed the evil power boost even though she didn’t admit it. Plus also she gets a new job and starts to split her focus
Season 5 through season 6 EP 19. - The real PhoeME takes over. Phoebe focuses on her job, wants less of involvement with magic if she can help it and begins misusing it to force her destiny. Runs away from Cole, not because she doesn’t love him but because she knows he’s bad for her and she knows the lure of evil for her could be strong.
Season 6 episode 20 through season 7 - phoebe looses her powers and we begin to see moments of the phoebe we knew. Like in “Styx feet under” and the last two episodes of season 7 when the fear of defeat of Zankou opens her eyes and she goes into full offensive charmed mode. But alas, still all too often. with all the boyfriends and work it so often distracts her from her love for being charmed.
Season 8 - first part of the season phoeME kicks in again full gear and she also influences piper big time. Not so Paige. But half way through the season as usual, innocents get the best for her and billy indirectly helps her find herself. Phoebe had lost faith in her premonitions but when they nearly loose billy to the virus while she was unwilling to use her premonitions to help her, her eyes open. Phoebe gets a premonition of her future being okay and begins to focus more on helping billy with finding her sister. We begin to see the side of phoebe we loved again as she begins to enjoy helping billy with her quest and becomes more focused on that. Also remember her heart had also become cold to men so that eliminated one distraction for a period of time helping her to focus on the craft until coop came along.
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forbuss
Witch
currently watching season seven
Posts: 1,748
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Post by forbuss on Aug 25, 2019 22:02:06 GMT -5
I'm curious what times she was the Phoebe we loved, in S3-S8, after meeting Cole? Any episodes traces of the Phoebs and not PhoeME. Be interesting to find out in the board re-watches as we move along. To be honest, this is the time I am most interested in. How she goes in and out and why. I agree with another poster after Phoebe loses her powers, this is when we begin to see her emerge (mostly season 7 in my opinion). I think the season five episode “The Eyes Have It” is a moment where we get Phoebe back. What are everyone’s thoughts? Also, I am going to put everything we say into the timeline for now. Will post soon  Also I know our mod, AW. Been around here awhile although I’m still super bad at it haha. Thanks for the reminders y’all |
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Post by Elle Em on Aug 27, 2019 17:11:37 GMT -5
I don't recall Phoebe being that bad in the first half of season 4. Other than not seeming to mourn Prue much, she was ready to save innocents, get a job, etc. She even felt quite a bit like her old self when she had a bit of a freakout over Cole proposing. I could really see the real Phoebe in that particular episode, because it was something different to how most people would react to a proposal. It kept her feeling like a unique person.
She started to seem less like herself right after the Source vanquish, and I think it was because she was suddenly preoccupied with Cole and the idea of getting married rather than things like vanquishing the Source. If given the opportunity to focus solely on her own problems, she seems to take it and run with it. When something is keeping her grounded, like having the Source issue or saving an innocent, she's a better person.
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Granny Charmed
Whitelighter
S1 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
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Post by Granny Charmed on Aug 27, 2019 20:37:52 GMT -5
Having re-watched Size Matters, Muses To My Ears, Trial By Magic, A Knight to Remember this year with my family and Es as part of our own scheduled re-watch during Es staycation dears.
I remember we didn't like how Phoebe treated Paige in A Knight to Remember and Size Matters for not trusting her judgment. Size Matters had a lovely sisterly ending at the end, that got lost, and we got some nice sisterly moments Trail By Magic in that one, with the first *real* sisterly thing since Paige hugged Patty.
But yes, without Cole, episode like Trail By Magic and Size Matters, she was perfect, and not PhoeME.
She was acting PhoeME in Muses to My Ears though, all she could think about was Cole. And truly didn't think she was our Phoebe in that one.
Haven't not re-watched Black as Cole, Enter the Demon or Brain Drain in quite a while, can't remember if Phoebe wasn't PhoeME in those to tell.
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Post by gzv969 on Aug 28, 2019 19:20:44 GMT -5
Having re-watched Size Matters, Muses To My Ears, Trial By Magic, A Knight to Remember this year with my family and Es as part of our own scheduled re-watch during Es staycation dears. I remember we didn't like how Phoebe treated Paige in A Knight to Remember and Size Matters for not trusting her judgment. Size Matters had a lovely sisterly ending at the end, that got lost, and we got some nice sisterly moments Trail By Magic in that one, with the first *real* sisterly thing since Paige hugged Patty. But yes, without Cole, episode like Trail By Magic and Size Matters, she was perfect, and not PhoeME. She was acting PhoeME in Muses to My Ears though, all she could think about was Cole. And truly didn't think she was our Phoebe in that one. Haven't not re-watched Black as Cole, Enter the Demon or Brain Drain in quite a while, can't remember if Phoebe wasn't PhoeME in those to tell. “Black as Cole” and “Enter the Demon” you could say were still Cole centered for phoebe. Same for Brain drain and every season 4 episode before “charmed and dangerous”. But I don’t consider these episodes really being PhoeME. Even though Cole was center for her in these, Phoebe was still focused on being a charmed one, vanquishing the source and saving innocents. The difference is she often fought the demons a lot together with Cole, and used his knowledge a lot. Cole was like her sidekick willing to go on any vanquish she wanted. Cole even said later in season 5 that those were the best days of his life with phoebe. It’s after Cole took in the source that she really changed. For example, In brain drain it was piper that was being self centered and wanting to relinquish her charmed powers. phoebe was the one trying to seriously talk her out of it. Brain Drain If it were PhoeME, Phoebe would have been the first to leave after a demon attack and would have said that if she wasn’t needed that she had to leave, had things to do and a column to write. |
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codebox
Familiar
Hey I'm a Charmed Veteran have been for a long time. Hope to share some insight and opinions.
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Post by codebox on Aug 31, 2019 19:12:54 GMT -5
After watching through Season 3 as I previously deemed it the season where PhoeMe was born I wanted to rewatch to get a fresh perspective on when she actually changed the exact pinpoint that started Phoebe's unfavorable change. To me it started with Sight Unseen. For one Phoebe had barely known Cole and already she's in love to the point where she's willing to ignore obvious signs that Cole was a demon, the most obvious evidence points to when he gets caught in their demon trap. This would've been fine had Phoebe known Cole was Belthazor and debated on it based on giving him his own platform to stand on. Take a look at this scene where Cole falls into Prue's demon trap youtu.be/yX9VlBMtM1o?t=146 , the way Phoebe turns around and looks at Prue with such a evil glare as if she were some demon, then as they are coming down the stairs Phoebe states "Forgive Prue she's crazy and isn't thinking straight" does she think Prue is a crazy person simply for trying to connect a conclusion Cole was a demon? This moment killed the bond that had built up between Prue and Phoebe, compare this to when they fought in Season 1, I could understand both of them in "The Power of Two" when Prue still saw Phoebe as the irresponsible one and Phoebe not wanting fire between them, but they overcame their differences and grew a bond. Instead here she's willing to be defensive for a guy she barely knows and lash out at her sisters for it, it seemed to be a very out of character thing to do for Phoebe at this point of the series, I mean look at when Phoebe had a one-off love interest for Eric in "They're Everywhere" yeah she was defensive, but in a way that was meant to protect Eric from finding out the potential risk in losing his father. When Phoebe had love interests prior to Cole she was still our same fun loving, free spirited Phoebe. Why change simply because she dated a demon? Why was her personality just altered whenever he specifically was around? These are questions I kept asking myself. Does he have a motive? why would he want the book etc? These are cases that Old Phoebe would've argued. Instead she assumes the worst and gangs on Prue with a rather defensive tone of voice as if Prue is some kind of villain. Now one would say "Wait that's one scene, she could've been defensive out of love" okay then try this. In the very next episode "Power Outtage" Phoebe shamelessly leaves Piper alone to deal with a crowd of arguing people while dumping her own responsibilities on Piper ignoring Piper's situation and then happily runs off to meet Cole without a second thought this scene easily came off as very self centered and inconsiderate and was an instant seedling of PhoeMe. www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr4NLU5kbkw Now you guys might say, okay get to the real meat. To me the episode that encapsulates Phoebe's demise into PhoeMe is Sleuthing with the Enemy, and not exactly she let Cole either, it was during the start between both it and Power Outtage from the very beginning until she let Cole go she was suddenly a self centered and defensive person, willing to completely leave her sisters while they search for Belthazor (who at that moment in time they DIDN'T know was Cole until the climax of the episode, so she wasn't even avoiding the fight out of conflicting love) simply so she could see him. That scene between her and Prue easily showcases the the birth of PhoeMe completely, in fact here's the direct conversation between the two. Piper: She's worried about Cole. She hasn't heard from him in over a week. ( She complains that she hasn't heard from Cole in a week she doesn't even know him YET?!) Prue: And that's a bad thing? Piper: Prue. Prue: You know what? I don't like him and I don't trust him. And it has nothing to do with him being a greasy lawyer either. [Scene: Manor. Prue comes down the stairs. Phoebe walks into the foyer.] Prue: Hey. Phoebe: I'll be back. Prue: Um, where you going? Phoebe: I am going to school (they go into the living room) and then I'm going to Cole's. (Phoebe puts some books in her bag.) Prue: Okay, aren't you forgetting a little something? Like vanquishing Belthazor? Phoebe: Wait, I though you had to write a spell to summon him first. Prue: Yes, and it's done. I'm using the one that we called Melinda from the past with, just re-wrote it a little bit. Phoebe: Really? Think it'll work? Prue: Well, yeah, I mean, it should. It's magic calling magic. Although in this case dark magic. Phoebe, why are you going to Cole's again? I mean, what do you really expect to find? Phoebe: Mmm, actually, I was gonna go to his office. And how do you know I've already been to Cole's? Prue: Well, you got a parking ticket there yesterday when you borrowed my car. Phoebe: Oops, sorry, I'll pay for it. Prue: Phoebe, that's not the point. Look, please, don't take this out on me, all right. I'm not the bad guy. Phoebe: I know, I would just like some understanding, you know, some support here. Prue: Look, I can't support you when I think you're just setting yourself up to get hurt. I have to be honest with you, we have to be honest with each other. That's the promise we made when Belthazor tried to split us apart, remember? Phoebe: Yeah, it just doesn't help that you never really liked Cole from the beginning. Prue: Yeah, well, I mean, you never really like any of my boyfriends either. Phoebe: That's very true. Firstly we have Phoebe rushing to pack her bags as if she wants to get away from Prue, then right when Prue mentions Phoebe got a parking ticket in Prue's car Phoebe just walks over it with a "Oops I'll pay for it later" as if she were a careless teenager who sees it as no big deal, she's completely uncaring of the fact she used Prue's car and got a ticket in it and was in a rush to get away from simply to avoid being questioned by her, in this scene it already feels less like watching sisters and more of a frustrated mother trying to talk to her annoyed teenage daughter. PhoeME was on full display in this scene. Not helping that when Prue casually mentions about Phoebe never liking any of her boyfriends showcases hypocrisy. So Phoebe can disapprove of who her sister's date, yet a sudden suspicion about Cole and she's quick to just dismiss her sisters entirely and barely engage conversation? This is what she does continually from this scene all the way to the second half of season 4. Especially during episodes like Fifth Halliwheel and Bite Me. Some will say Phoebe showed glimpses of her normal self during Season 4A but that's only because Paige had to be introduced so the focus on her relationship was sidelined rather than an overall improvement of the character's actual personality. Especially when during the Season 4 opener she's more concerned with Cole not being with her at Prue's funeral ignoring the consequences of him going. It's like if a convict from jail was a fugitive from the police and their spouse just invites them to an important event only for the cops to show up and disrupt the scene, it was completely rude and disrespectful to not think about how demons chasing Cole would affect the outcome of Prue's funeral, not helping that she doesn't even tell Piper that she was responsible. She even makes her only grieving scene all about a memory where Prue got angry at her. I will give credit in her conflict over not telling her sisters about Cole's fake vanquish, but the moment he comes back she instantly relapses back into Phoebe and carries the same lovestruck, bitter and dense persona regarding Cole. She can't stop talking about him, she's less interested in fighting demons and she's dismissive of any opinions Prue or Piper have (mostly Prue) if she feels its an attack against her relationship (watch The Demon Who Came In From the Cold for that one) even during the end of her graduation party all she worries about her relationship. It also doesn't help she flip=flops between saying he can be redeemed, but the moment she deems him unworthy of such a cause she assumes the worst and destroys the vanquishing potion meant for Belthazor. Yet she was quick to bash Prue for a simple suspcision. Why is it only a problem when her sisters suspect something off, but justified whenever Phoebe does? Someone could chalk this off as "Shannen and Alyssa having their feud leak onscreen" but the fact Phoebe does this to Paige makes it less of actresses and more character, aside from dialogue differences or performances. With this in mind, when her sudden self centeredness with Cole came around her premonition count dropped a lot from Seasons 1 and 2, almost like her ability to channel danger was no longer as important as her love life. Things only get worse when she's the worst person on her wedding day, I still can't get over that scene where she brutally shouts at Paige for "messing up her wedding dress". To me though the scene that absolutely angered me when it came to PhoeMe moments was in Saving Private Leo, that scene where she's annoyed at Piper simply because dealing with the ghosts inconvenienced her being at an office party with Cole, she never takes into consideration how this affects Leo nor does she take into account it was about Leo, she's just more offended that its a "Husband vs Sisters" debate which felt like more of her feeling justified in choosing Cole over them every time. Not helping is her laughing off the ghost problem the moment Piper insures of it. Also she can feel justified in moving out, yet both of them forced Paige to move in with them simply so they could use the Power of Three! Phoebe also had the bad habit of throwing things in her sisters faces as a defense when she feels defensive about Cole. She did it constantly with Prue, then with Piper here. Things only got worse in Season 5 where Cole was suddenly the cause of all her problems, she finds any excuse to blow off helping people, like acting inconvenienced to help Miley simply because it got in the way of her divorce hearing, only for her to come back and criticize Piper for having a panic attack. Then she becomes a celebrity and all that, just added to her already self centered agendas. Her column became her new obsession to an even worse degree than Cole. Especially in Season 7 where she seemed to obsess over it more than usual. I still hated Phoebe in Scry Hard when she felt inconvenienced to help a presumed missing Piper simply because helping Piper and Leo would inconvenience her column deadline. PhoeMe is at her worst in Season 6 when she gains Empathy, which did nothing to give her empathy. All she did was whine how everyone affected her or was an excuse to have Alyssa narrate what character's were doing. She's also much more into her love life and is more skimpy than normal. She also uses empathy as an excuse to intrude on her sister's lives. I've rambled for long enough, so in conclusion I would say Sight Unseen planted the seeds for PhoeMe, Power Outtage sprouted it more and more, then Sleuthing with the Enemy bloomed it which in turn doomed PhoeMe to internal selfishness. |
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Post by Elle Em on Sept 1, 2019 7:26:48 GMT -5
I'm just going to list off some things that occurred to me while reading your post, codebox.
First, I recently watched Sleuthing, and Prue asked the bounty hunter how long ago the Triad send Cole. He replied two months. Phoebe and Cole barely knew each other at all at that point. There was the time when they knew each other but weren't dating. Then we saw them go on their awkward date with Piper and Leo. Then they seemed to have fun in Power Outage on their date, and Cole was a source of comfort later on when Phoebe was upset. Then he disappears for a week, shows up again, and she's apparently so in love with him at this point that she's willing to break the strongest bond in her life, that with her sisters, to save him. It's ridiculous.
Also, I hated Prue and Phoebe's lines of dialogue about Prue saying that Phoebe never liked any of her boyfriends and Phoebe agreeing. Uh, remember Andy? The guy you all grew up with? Phoebe and Andy weren't portrayed as super close, but they clearly had no problems with each other. Those few lines just seemed to dismiss Andy's character in such a disrespectful way.
I do find the devolution of Phoebe's character to be very interesting, and I'll be diving more into this later on. At some point, I'd like to look similarly into Piper's changing over the seasons, but we'll stick with Phoebe for now.
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Post by Jean on Sept 1, 2019 18:55:25 GMT -5
The last time we saw Phoebe as the one I truly loved was her flying on a broomstick in 'All Halliwell's Eve'. The last episode she was truly herself before things got serious with Cole. The next one Sight Unseen planted the seeds, once she starts dating Cole, and by Sleuthing she is gone.
What is shocking. She only started dating Cole for what 3 weeks officially. She barely was dating him for a month.
Cole wasn't her first love. Watch S1, as we have been doing with the board, and she dated other guys like Clay and they mention others. So why on earth is she acting like a school girl with a crush. This is all Kern when he took over, No way I'd see Connie writing Phoebe like this.
Phoebe taking Cole's side over her sisters is the worse and lying. It was out of character, and really Kern ONLY did that for drama, and because this episode was the last before the Christmas Hiatus, so they needed something big to happen, but not if it destroys the sisterhood and foundation that made the show so very special.
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Post by Elle Em on Sept 2, 2019 8:45:42 GMT -5
I would have liked to watch the Phoebe/Cole storyline play out if Phoebe were written more true to herself and the character of seasons 1 and 2. It would be fun to watch Cole come in and try his same plan, only to have Phoebe react somewhat coldly to him like Bane in season 2. Or perhaps she just isn't as immature about the whole thing, and maybe they casually date and slowly get serious all throughout season 3, and the season ends with the big reveal of everyone finding out who Cole really is.
That event could perhaps intertwine with AHBL so that Phoebe is ready to vanquish Cole, but doesn't because she needs his help to reverse time to save Piper. That way, she saves him without having to lie to her sisters and have her character change so much. I think above all else, her lying to her sisters was what changed her the most.
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codebox
Familiar
Hey I'm a Charmed Veteran have been for a long time. Hope to share some insight and opinions.
Posts: 287
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Post by codebox on Sept 2, 2019 9:34:34 GMT -5
I'm just going to list off some things that occurred to me while reading your post, codebox. First, I recently watched Sleuthing, and Prue asked the bounty hunter how long ago the Triad send Cole. He replied two months. Phoebe and Cole barely knew each other at all at that point. There was the time when they knew each other but weren't dating. Then we saw them go on their awkward date with Piper and Leo. Then they seemed to have fun in Power Outage on their date, and Cole was a source of comfort later on when Phoebe was upset. Then he disappears for a week, shows up again, and she's apparently so in love with him at this point that she's willing to break the strongest bond in her life, that with her sisters, to save him. It's ridiculous. Also, I hated Prue and Phoebe's lines of dialogue about Prue saying that Phoebe never liked any of her boyfriends and Phoebe agreeing. Uh, remember Andy? The guy you all grew up with? Phoebe and Andy weren't portrayed as super close, but they clearly had no problems with each other. Those few lines just seemed to dismiss Andy's character in such a disrespectful way. I do find the devolution of Phoebe's character to be very interesting, and I'll be diving more into this later on. At some point, I'd like to look similarly into Piper's changing over the seasons, but we'll stick with Phoebe for now. Update to my post: Actually I take that back, just for reference I went back and rewatched Power Outage and PhoeMe was on full display, so no it wasn't Sleuthing with the Enemy (though everything I said still applies) it was Power Outage where PhoeMe bloomed. If you go back and watch it there are a couple of key details that showcase it easily (just to note your comment about Andy was a good one, yeah way to spit all over his grave with that comment Phoebe) during the scene where during P3 Prue casually mentions Phoebe getting a ticket in her care twice, only for Phoebe to just not give it a second thought. Then after the girls went to P3 discussing different plans with Phoebe being in charge of the homeowners meeting they had, a comment Phoebe stated annoyed me. She meets Cole in a parking lot on her way to return Prue's car and Cole walks to ask Phoebe about their relationship and going out on a date and Phoebe with no second thought responds with "I can get Piper to handle the meeting, she'll be furious, but eh she'll just surpress it and take it out on me later" She basically just took advantage of Piper's then meek nature just to say "eh forget it I'll dump all my responsibilities onto her".. Then the very next scene during the homeowners meeting Phoebe tries to sneak away from Piper hoping she wouldn't notice. and when Piper questions Phoebe on how it isn't fair that she has all the responsibilities dumped on her Phoebe responds with "I know, but the last thing I expected was for Cole to ask me out" really so just Cole asking you out is enough of a reason to take Piper for granted? To top it off when Piper comments on how she had to sacrifice her doctor's appointments for this Phoebe responds with "Well Leo was a doctor before he died" how insensitive! Not only that Phoebe ran Prue's car out of gas to the point where she missed her job. To give Phoebe some credit I did admire her sense of overwhelmness in how having a huge fight with Prue and Piper caused her to breakdown. However something occurred to me, she does all her talking and consulting with Cole (yes he was all she had to go to at the time), however once she returns back to the manor she doesn't exactly have any words of consulting, it's Piper who apologizes to her for her mean comment when enraged and Prue who apologizes for not always treating her as if she's grown away from her irresponsible past. However when it comes to Phoebe she has no words of consultment at all, she just mostly agrees and makes comments in response. Now this could be nitpicking on my part because its an admittedly nice scene and they did work things out, but I found it odd that Phoebe never apologized directly to Piper for taking her granted just so she could see Cole, it was PRUE who apologizes on behalf of taking Piper for granted. Then at P3 Phoebe is the one who makes an oaf to not keep important secrets away from her sisters, only to break that oaf in the very next episode even when Prue brings it up to her! |
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Post by Assassin Witch on Sept 2, 2019 10:39:01 GMT -5
Bringing this over. 'Sleuthing With the Enemy' when she lied to her sisters about Cole, and she kept lying to them, after he came back, keeping it a secret. But in our board re-watch, I can't wait to see which episode most think it is in their own opinions. |
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Post by gzv969 on Sept 2, 2019 16:29:49 GMT -5
I can see from all the posts that the common theme of phoebes change to PhoeME is Cole!! 😊. Guys have been known to make her that way. I remember seeing her full on PhoeME in season 1 “Feats of Clay” with her ex boyfriend Clay, and how she kept protecting him no matter what Prue said.
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Aaeiyn
Elder
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 5,486
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Post by Aaeiyn on Mar 22, 2023 14:45:20 GMT -5
I want to open by saying Phoebe is, and always has been, my favourite Halliwell. Sure, I love her more certain periods than others, but overall, I love and identify with Phoebe. You and I are in the same boat. I did dislike her, for a little bit but then changed my mind and went back to liking her, again. I can help offer a unique perspective than "the norm" 😁 Season 6 (entirety, except for maybe the moment she did the vision quest) showed Phoebe use her powers for personal gain over and over. IDK why this is so surprising, for everyone. This is LITERALLY Phoebe's character since S1E1 "Something Wicca This Way Comes"! She manipulates Piper into allowing her access to the Manor 'cause legally she has rights to it and (selfishly) invites herself into Prue's space. Phoebe's (also) the same one to have found the BOS and coerced BOTH Prue and Piper into being witches 'cause Phoebe wants to (selfishly) feel special. She even doesn't seem to give a flip about Prue freaking out and practically mocking her about her feelings on the matter. So sisterly 🙄 S1E2 "I've Got You Under my Skin", she has TWO premonitions regarding just herself. Alec (the guy she practically hit on, with her premonition) and (selfishly) grabbing lottery numbers. Sure, she handed out the winnings, but she still abused her magic, for herself, too. This episode showed she could call upon her premonitions but got punished for using it selfishly until about S1E20 "The Power of Two". S1E4 "Dead Man Dating", she's practically using her power for profit. Sure, she wanted to pay for Prue's present, but girl, why you gotta selfishly use your power for it? Silly goose. S1E5 "Dream Sorcerer", she convinced Piper to cast a "find a lover" spell, for their selfish desires. These are just the beginning episodes of the series, and we clearly see Phoebe abusing her magic for her own personal gain. It's LITERALLY her character. Not that I mind. I just don't understand why it's so surprising or "shocking" to others that she behaves this way (particularly when it pertains to later seasons) 🤷♀️
Anyway, back when I disliked her, I didn't really like her from S4E14 "The Three Faces of Phoebe" and beyond. But, now, I don't think that way and think she's fairly consistent, now that I see her in a different light. |
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