Worst things Piper has ever done to Leo

[codebox]

Not trying to run negativity here, so apologizes. But I figured I'd make a board based on something completely limit free and something I don't think gets as much of a talking point outside seasonal reviews. But what are your guys perspectives on some of the worst things Piper has ever done to Leo, this counts from physical, emotional or just plain petty. Looking back Piper and Leo's relationship was one of my least favorite things. I'm going to name a few specific instances where I found Piper to be absolutely horrible toward Leo. 

-My first and probably most egregious example easily has to be her blatant disregard for Leo's feelings or overall venting in the episode Kill Billie Vol 1. Just the way Piper talks to Leo in this scene is awful! www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4F_i8RqFk8 everything Leo says is basically a summary of their relationship in a nutshell. Piper gets a lot of flak for how she strings Dan and Leo in season 2 (rightly so) but this scene easily tops any of that and is basically the episode where Piper is just at her worst. I think what sealed the deal was her tone when she said "Welcome to marriage Leo, its a partnership you divide and conquer what's your problem?" she basically thinks their entire marriage is built up on a "divide and conquer" stance and how she dismisses his criticisms with "I'm sorry Leo I work for a living" work? What work does she even do? 

-My second would have to be in Cat House. youtu.be/rG6TY9JbNj4?t=253 Where during the marriage countslor scenes Leo voices his complains about Piper nagging him for being gone a lot when he's out helping charges, yet now she's complaining because he's around too much? What does Piper want exactly?! To make things worse she accuses Leo of being Co-Dependent. There's no winning with this woman. As season five goes... Piper and Leo had only been married for two years. They're still newlyweds basically, but their marriage is already stale and most of season five is spent addressing their sudden issues. Normally, couples with a baby on the way are blissed out. It's a riot that Piper accuses Leo of being co-dependent when she took it out on San Francisco when he'd been an elder for maybe a day. 

-My third would have to be in Witchness Protection youtu.be/MVjWBOCGgE4?t=50 where Piper treats Leo as if he were contageous telling him to "stay away" and how she talks to him is ugh! Usually she's complaining he's either not around, in this case it has nothing to do with him being magical at all, she's upset just because Leo has a slight blur in his photo and treats it as if Leo was a kid who did something horrible and the mother is punishing them. I also hated her line "I'm gonna hang it anyway, better than nothing". 

-My fourth is how just because she wants a normal life she decides she wants no part of Leo anymore and talks about potentially signing a divorce during end of Valhalley of Dolls. Just because she wants a normal life doesn't mean Leo shouldn't be able to not see his son. Also Leo being an angel is the least part of "not being normal" you girls are witches also your Twice Blessed baby can create a dragon out of thin air and has godlike powers. www.youtube.com/watch?v=C74zpNjVHyo&t=2s

-My fifth would be in A Witch's Tale, where Piper under her own fearless spell destroy's a picture she hung up just to blow it up to tell Leo's its ugly, then just walks past him to say "no offense" insensitively. youtu.be/dKXa5VXcKAQ?t=200

-My sixth would have to be that P3 fight scene between Leo and Dan. I hate that scene at P3 where Leo and Dan just break out in a fight and completely destroy things in there, but rather than be concerned with their fighting Piper is straight up HORRIBLE to Leo here, even worse than she was all season, which is a 180 change to how she was literally to scenes ago. Only instead of her cons coming from the love triangle (which ended at this point) she literally feels like Later Seasons Piper and felt so out of character. I really got later season Piper from her and she felt so out of place with the show by this point.

She accuses Leo of doing something to Dan upon just finding them fighting with literally no reason to think this conclusion, she just suddenly came to the conclusion "Dan had to have had a reason to attack Leo" despite clearly not giving any reason herself, this makes no sense because she had already chosen Leo, why all of a sudden is she Pro-Dan again? Just blaming Leo for nothing of his control is such a later season Piper move I can't believe how awful she was in that scene. Especially when she just tells him to go back to Dan's punching range! Her dialogue literally makes no sense because in a previous episode she was on a date with Leo and had completely moved on from Dan, she chose Leo by this point, so her acting this way feels so off to me.

Then it leads to Piper telling Phoebe that neither Dan nor Leo will tell her why they were fighting. Did Piper literally just forget the previous scene? Either Piper is written like a different person again or she's just clueless!

-My seventh would be any scene or moment where Piper blows up Leo out of anger or frustration. Especially during There's Something About Leo where she repeatedly does it in magic school. 

But these are just a few of mine, name me any of yours. 

[Esmeralda]

For me, the worst thing Piper ever did to Leo happened in S8. After he gave up his wings for love of her, she DARED to totally emasculate him by treating him like her own little errand boy. Especially when he grew up in the early 1900s where the man brought home the bacon and the little woman stayed home and took care of the children, that was a horrible way to treat him. If she'd left him with any balls, he would've taken his sons and walked out on his shrew of a wife. Or better, take her back to the 20s where she could have her normal life and see what she thought of it!

Unlike PhoeME, S8 was the first time I truly hated Piper. I didn't like her when she became Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper in 'Oh, My Goddess!' and the more I re-watched S2, the more I hated the way she treated Dan and Leo, but true hatred, like I felt for PhoeME, that wasn't until the first time I watched S8. Had that season never aired, I'd feel totally differently towards her.

[MistyPrue]

I enjoyed reading your posts guys, I so agree with you. I noticed the way piper was talking down to leo / speaking horribly to him, on a number of occasions :/ I noticed her moaning about him (one way or another, like he couldn't do anything right) and treating him like her errand boy too. Poor Leo! I feel for him

I'm bad with scenes - but there was a scene where Leo tried to give the charmed ones a heartfelt pep talk, "any witch who says she isn't afraid in battle is a liar" (something like that) and Piper basically told him to zip it. Seemed like the energy of "shh leo, you aren't helping. We're the charmed ones, only we know stuff. Butt out" He meant well and it's not like he hasn't been in their world for ages / been a whitelighter etc. But he wasn't worth listening to? I remember when she/they did listen to him... when there was more respect for him and what he had to say

And there was a scene where Leo wanted to keep an item from 'up there' and Piper complained it was too bright. Leo really wanted to put it somewhere, bless him! was very noticable on his face - and I felt like 'Piper, can you not even let the man have this one thing?' and then she accidentaly broke it anyway :/

Hope I've roughly remembered these scenes correctly lol

I wouldn't have minded a rival love interest for Leo.. maybe then Piper would have to work on herself, to regain his affections

[Elle Em]

Dec 21, 2020 1:23:32 GMT -5 MistyPrue said:

I enjoyed reading your posts guys, I so agree with you. I noticed the way piper was talking down to leo / speaking horribly to him, on a number of occasions :/ I noticed her moaning about him (one way or another, like he couldn't do anything right) and treating him like her errand boy too. Poor Leo! I feel for him

I'm bad with scenes - but there was a scene where Leo tried to give the charmed ones a heartfelt pep talk, "any witch who says she isn't afraid in battle is a liar" (something like that) and Piper basically told him to zip it. Seemed like the energy of "shh leo, you aren't helping. We're the charmed ones, only we know stuff. Butt out" He meant well and it's not like he hasn't been in their world for ages / been a whitelighter etc. But he wasn't worth listening to? I remember when she/they did listen to him... when there was more respect for him and what he had to say

And there was a scene where Leo wanted to keep an item from 'up there' and Piper complained it was too bright. Leo really wanted to put it somewhere, bless him! was very noticable on his face - and I felt like 'Piper, can you not even let the man have this one thing?' and then she accidentaly broke it anyway :/

Hope I've roughly remembered these scenes correctly lol

I wouldn't have minded a rival love interest for Leo.. maybe then Piper would have to work on herself, to regain his affections

I'm not too interested in the romance storylines of the show, but I really like your idea of there being a rival love interest for Leo. It would put Leo in the same position Piper was in during season 2, only this time, it would be cool if Leo chose the mortal instead of the person with magical powers. I dislike Piper enough later in the show that I'd be okay with her losing Leo if he decides he's had enough of her treatment and especially after he becomes mortal. If this were to happen, I'd want them to not have any children, though. 

I agree with your assessments of Piper's behavior with her mean attitude towards him and how she made a big deal out of the little lamp the elders gave them. For the most part, she never really seemed happy with Leo. They were cute in season 1, though, when she was still a nice person.

[MistyPrue]

Dec 21, 2020 8:18:51 GMT -5 Elle Em said:

I'm not too interested in the romance storylines of the show, but I really like your idea of there being a rival love interest for Leo. It would put Leo in the same position Piper was in during season 2, only this time, it would be cool if Leo chose the mortal instead of the person with magical powers. I dislike Piper enough later in the show that I'd be okay with her losing Leo if he decides he's had enough of her treatment and especially after he becomes mortal. If this were to happen, I'd want them to not have any children, though. 

I agree with your assessments of Piper's behavior with her mean attitude towards him and how she made a big deal out of the little lamp the elders gave them. For the most part, she never really seemed happy with Leo. They were cute in season 1, though, when she was still a nice person.

Exactly! Leo fought for Piper and I think she just ended up taking him for granted, like she was the only woman he'd ever love. So I would have liked to have seen that shaken. Especially because she didn't have such a good reaction to the Nymphs ogling him

I would have liked to have seen her realise what a catch Leo is again - and how lucky she is (regardless of which woman he chose, at the end of it) They were so cute in season 1, when she was sweet and appreciative - agreed!

[Too Much Coffee]

Dec 21, 2020 8:18:51 GMT -5 Elle Em said:

Dec 21, 2020 1:23:32 GMT -5 MistyPrue said:

I enjoyed reading your posts guys, I so agree with you. I noticed the way piper was talking down to leo / speaking horribly to him, on a number of occasions :/ I noticed her moaning about him (one way or another, like he couldn't do anything right) and treating him like her errand boy too. Poor Leo! I feel for him

I'm bad with scenes - but there was a scene where Leo tried to give the charmed ones a heartfelt pep talk, "any witch who says she isn't afraid in battle is a liar" (something like that) and Piper basically told him to zip it. Seemed like the energy of "shh leo, you aren't helping. We're the charmed ones, only we know stuff. Butt out" He meant well and it's not like he hasn't been in their world for ages / been a whitelighter etc. But he wasn't worth listening to? I remember when she/they did listen to him... when there was more respect for him and what he had to say

And there was a scene where Leo wanted to keep an item from 'up there' and Piper complained it was too bright. Leo really wanted to put it somewhere, bless him! was very noticable on his face - and I felt like 'Piper, can you not even let the man have this one thing?' and then she accidentaly broke it anyway :/

Hope I've roughly remembered these scenes correctly lol

I wouldn't have minded a rival love interest for Leo.. maybe then Piper would have to work on herself, to regain his affections

I'm not too interested in the romance storylines of the show, but I really like your idea of there being a rival love interest for Leo. It would put Leo in the same position Piper was in during season 2, only this time, it would be cool if Leo chose the mortal instead of the person with magical powers. I dislike Piper enough later in the show that I'd be okay with her losing Leo if he decides he's had enough of her treatment and especially after he becomes mortal. If this were to happen, I'd want them to not have any children, though. 

I agree with your assessments of Piper's behavior with her mean attitude towards him and how she made a big deal out of the little lamp the elders gave them. For the most part, she never really seemed happy with Leo. They were cute in season 1, though, when she was still a nice person.

Yes before she learned Leo was a whitelighter when she thought he was a normal guy., she was wonderful with him.

Once she learned he was a whitelighter her attiitude changes completely. For someone who craved a normal life, she should have let Leo go after Love Hurts. All the traits I hate in Piper, all come back to her and Leo and how bad they are around each other (Piper sure changed regardless in S4-S8 after Prue died and it wasn't because of Leo or her relationship, but certainly in the earlier seasons, she is just a different person when with him than when he isn't around or she's with her sisters or others).

I like her when she isn't around him. I don't know why but both were just so miserable around each other.

Maybe they were doomed from the start, and their love story would have been more special if it ended in Love Hurts, Leo told her he could clip his wings for her, that he can do that, but Piper tells him he wouldn't be able to save the next Daisy.

I'd be so proud of Piper if she put her foot down, and that's the end of Leo, never to be seen again.

Piper and Leo were cute and fun together in S1, when Piper didn't know Leo was a whitelighter, the second she learned he was one, it was no longer cute and special anymore. I did like their love story in Love Hurts.

I find it quite interesting that Piper's first ever traits of the Piper I dislike happened in the moment she learns Leo is a whitelighter, I don't know why, but she changed here (and reminds me of the Piper from the later seasons, am I the only one who saw this).

She bounces back and forth to the Piper I love from this point on into S2, but whenever it concerns her love life she reverts back to a Piper I don't like.  But her relationship with Leo just killed my love of her, and the more she stayed with him, the more unlikable she started to become.

Maybe deep down, she knew that Leo loved being a Whitelighter, but she wanted a normal life, and wished Leo was the man she had fallen in love with when she thought he was just a normal guy. If so, then she should have let him go, even after Murphy's Luck. She picked Leo over Dan, but that was when he was still mortal. What was she expecting when he was a Whitelighter again, it was right back to square one, and all the problems that led to them breaking up in the first place have returned.

I suppose you could say both brought out the worse in the other, and why they just never should have been together.

I think both were better off apart, Leo would be so much happier being a whitelighter and never with Piper, and Piper would be so much happier with a normal guy who isn't magical or just single without a man running a business.

In our S3 re-watch, whenever I see Piper/Leo together and their subplots with them as a couple, I just cringe, but when they are apart and Leo is doing his job as a whitelighter and Piper is off doing her own thing, I like them both so much more.

[MistyPrue]

Dec 21, 2020 17:35:03 GMT -5 Too Much Coffee said:

Yes before she learned Leo was a whitelighter when she thought he was a normal guy., she was wonderful with him.

Once she learned he was a whitelighter her attiitude changes completely. For someone who craved a normal life, she should have let Leo go after Love Hurts. All the traits I hate in Piper, all come back to her and Leo and how bad they are around each other (Piper sure changed regardless in S4-S8 after Prue died and it wasn't because of Leo or her relationship, but certainly in the earlier seasons, she is just a different person when with him than when he isn't around or she's with her sisters or others).

I like her when she isn't around him. I don't know why but both were just so miserable around each other.

Maybe they were doomed from the start, and their love story would have been more special if it ended in Love Hurts, Leo told her he could clip his wings for her, that he can do that, but Piper tells him he wouldn't be able to save the next Daisy.

I'd be so proud of Piper if she put her foot down, and that's the end of Leo, never to be seen again.

Piper and Leo were cute and fun together in S1, when Piper didn't know Leo was a whitelighter, the second she learned he was one, it was no longer cute and special anymore. I did like their love story in Love Hurts.

I find it quite interesting that Piper's first ever traits of the Piper I dislike happened in the moment she learns Leo is a whitelighter, I don't know why, but she changed here (and reminds me of the Piper from the later seasons, am I the only one who saw this).

She bounces back and forth to the Piper I love from this point on into S2, but whenever it concerns her love life she reverts back to a Piper I don't like.  But her relationship with Leo just killed my love of her, and the more she stayed with him, the more unlikable she started to become.

Maybe deep down, she knew that Leo loved being a Whitelighter, but she wanted a normal life, and wished Leo was the man she had fallen in love with when she thought he was just a normal guy. If so, then she should have let him go, even after Murphy's Luck. She picked Leo over Dan, but that was when he was still mortal. What was she expecting when he was a Whitelighter again, it was right back to square one, and all the problems that led to them breaking up in the first place have returned.

I suppose you could say both brought out the worse in the other, and why they just never should have been together.

I think both were better off apart, Leo would be so much happier being a whitelighter and never with Piper, and Piper would be so much happier with a normal guy who isn't magical or just single without a man running a business.

In our S3 re-watch, whenever I see Piper/Leo together and their subplots with them as a couple, I just cringe, but when they are apart and Leo is doing his job as a whitelighter and Piper is off doing her own thing, I like them both so much more.

I do wonder if part of her resented the fact he was magical, since she did want that normal life so badly. But then he gives up his wings and she still treats him badly - to the point where even leo expresses to her how he feels about the way he's being treated by her / around the house - So I'm confused

But I guess he does still have all his magical knowledge and he is still, very much, in that world. So she can't 'escape' when she spends time with him

Really starting to notice on my rewatch of Charmed that I'm disliking Piper when she's around Leo, too - It is miserable, like you say. Yes, I think I agree with you here, that they'd be better off apart. They seem to end up with more cons than pros.

I just rewatched the candy corn scene and noticed Leo's expressions how can Piper not notice how he feels / why can't she communicate her needs more gently, argh. It's like watching a bossy mom/son relationship It's sad, compared to their early days sweet/happy scenes!

[Elle Em]

It's been years since I've watched season 8, but that candy corn scene—wow. It's such a small thing, and it's like she can't communicate normally. I can't imagine how high that woman's blood pressure must be.

I too noticed Piper acting like her late season self in Love Hurts when Leo came back. The man is dying, and she's being incredibly harsh, and it's all because of how she feels lied to. With him being as injured as he was there, it shouldn't matter that she feels betrayed. He's in pain and a lot of danger, and it just doesn't matter how she feels then. They could have talked things through later once the problem is solved.

She's also snappy with Phoebe in this episode too if I recall correctly. I can't stand people like that, who make it others' problem when they're angry or upset. It's like, everyone else is dealing with the problem too, and now on top of that they also have to deal with Piper's attitude. People like that make others walk on eggshells around them, and it just wasn't pleasant to watch. 

I think all the sisters were better without men. Leo and Piper we all know about, and most people don't seem to like how Phoebe changed after Cole arrived, and how she was after he left. Even Prue and Andy to some extent apply here too, because Andy wants a normal life that Prue will never fit into, and Prue is more of a changed person from her high school days than Andy. I wish we had a lot more time of them all being single.

[MistyPrue]

Dec 22, 2020 8:06:44 GMT -5 Elle Em said:

It's been years since I've watched season 8, but that candy corn scene—wow. It's such a small thing, and it's like she can't communicate normally. I can't imagine how high that woman's blood pressure must be.

I too noticed Piper acting like her late season self in Love Hurts when Leo came back. The man is dying, and she's being incredibly harsh, and it's all because of how she feels lied to. With him being as injured as he was there, it shouldn't matter that she feels betrayed. He's in pain and a lot of danger, and it just doesn't matter how she feels then. They could have talked things through later once the problem is solved.

She's also snappy with Phoebe in this episode too if I recall correctly. I can't stand people like that, who make it others' problem when they're angry or upset. It's like, everyone else is dealing with the problem too, and now on top of that they also have to deal with Piper's attitude. People like that make others walk on eggshells around them, and it just wasn't pleasant to watch. 

I think all the sisters were better without men. Leo and Piper we all know about, and most people don't seem to like how Phoebe changed after Cole arrived, and how she was after he left. Even Prue and Andy to some extent apply here too, because Andy wants a normal life that Prue will never fit into, and Prue is more of a changed person from her high school days than Andy. I wish we had a lot more time of them all being single.

Hahaha, the blood pressure comment. I don't understand why the writers wrote Piper like this towards Leo, what was the point? And then they wrote other characters (e.g cole) talking about how Piper needed to get back to Leo (when she was in "limbo" with cole) and cole talking about how Piper and Leo were a good example of love, for phoebe (something like that) I'm confused, the writers be confusing me lol. I, too, agree that there was no need for Piper to be harsh to Leo when he was in great danger - Surely you'd put it aside in that moment? I did like Phoebe and Cole, but there story was a long one. I feel like phoebe spent most of the time with cole or dating other interests. I enjoyed single phoebe, but we didn't get much. They do all seem quite men-focused now that you mention it, there seems to be more of that than single life

[Astral Echo]

I don't think I truly ever noticed the extent of Piper's attitude problems back when I first watched the show (over and over again). I think I probably somewhat looked at her relationship with Leo through rose-tinted spectacles. I'm going to start a rewatch of the series in the new year so I'll be interested to see what I think of her (and them as a couple) after years of last watching the show properly.

[MistyPrue]

Dec 24, 2020 20:17:09 GMT -5 Astral Echo said:

I don't think I truly ever noticed the extent of Piper's attitude problems back when I first watched the show (over and over again). I think I probably somewhat looked at her relationship with Leo through rose-tinted spectacles. I'm going to start a rewatch of the series in the new year so I'll be interested to see what I think of her (and them as a couple) after years of last watching the show properly.

I didn't notice in the past, I'm surprised now that I missed it. I picked up on a scene this time around and thought to myself 'that wasn't very nice towards leo, piper...' and started noticing more scenes like it after that. I definitely had a rosy view of them back then, also. Do let us know what you think on rewatch!

[Julian]

Dec 25, 2020 11:08:46 GMT -5 MistyPrue said:

Dec 24, 2020 20:17:09 GMT -5 Astral Echo said:

I don't think I truly ever noticed the extent of Piper's attitude problems back when I first watched the show (over and over again). I think I probably somewhat looked at her relationship with Leo through rose-tinted spectacles. I'm going to start a rewatch of the series in the new year so I'll be interested to see what I think of her (and them as a couple) after years of last watching the show properly.

I didn't notice in the past, I'm surprised now that I missed it. I picked up on a scene this time around and thought to myself 'that wasn't very nice towards leo, piper...' and started noticing more scenes like it after that. I definitely had a rosy view of them back then, also. Do let us know what you think on rewatch!

Me too, especially Piper and Leo. Having joined the Cafe re-watches currently in S3, I'm noticing stuff I didn't before with them two. Way too much unnecessary drama with Piper and Leo, and it makes me root AGANIST THEM NOW not FOR THEM as a couple.

Astral Echo , free feel to add your comments (if you decide to review and share your reactions on the episodes) in this board:
thecharmedcafe.proboards.com/board/72/20th-anniversary

[Astral Echo]

I do wonder what they'd have done with Piper without Leo though. I think it's kind of a catch-22 really because if Piper had got that "normal life" without him, I wonder whether we'd have grown tired of a human being around in constant mortal danger. For me, it's almost hard to believe whoever he was, he'd have survived the whole series.

For me, the bigger issue is Piper's constant yearning for a normal life. If that was really the case, the sisters would've given up their magic in 4x22 or stayed dead in Season 8. Season 1-4 should have been a journey for Piper learning to embrace magic. From learning about it in Season 1, to realising mortal men will only ever be endangered magic in Season 2, coming to accept magic in Season 3 only to lose Prue, wanting a magic free life because of what it's cost her only to experience what life is like without it in episodes like Brain Drain (and they could've done others where perhaps their were stolen or in 4x22 they're given 24 hours without magic or something) and realise despite the cost, their lives are better with magic in it.

That way, we don't get any of those moments that codebox listed and instead she learns to love Leo for who he is and accept their lives together.

[Aaeiyn]

Worst thing Piper does to Leo (back, when he was a whitelighter) is blowing him up, when she's angry. Talk about physical abuse but in a magical way. Most of the time, it's done, when her mind is altered but even my own suspension of disbelief and benefit of the doubt cannot sweep under the rug her own admission in doing so, in an episode where her mind is functioning fine like in S5E15 "The Day That Magic Died". Even though, she couldn't necessarily blow him up, the fact that this line exists irritates me. No, Piper, you should not being magically blowing up Leo just because he can't die by it, it's still not OK.

And, after he "fell from Grace" and became human, that's when her abuse went from physical to emotional and controlling.  I get he has no powers, and she's the protector, but I didn't like how she handled it.  And, she attempted to pass off this ideology onto Paige, and how Paige would handle Henry.  Both Leo and Henry, as Henry says, are grown adults and can make their own decisions in sticking around, if they want to.

[MistyPrue]

So I’ve been rewatching again and interestingly, some of their scenes of pipers’ comments towards him I now take as banter. It doesn’t excuse when she’s more moody with him - but some of it is pretty light, it’s just that Leo isn’t bantering back at all, I guess he’s more serious compared to Piper. I’m liking them more again as a couple because I’m not taking her as seriously now lol but still - there are some moments she was very out of line. It’s just weird that I generally thought “gosh she’s horrible to him frequently” and now it just seems like it’s her stress-humour a fair amount of the time lol 🤷‍♀️