Phoebe's Last Premonition

[codebox]

By far the biggest disappointment in the show when it comes to magic is how poor Phoebe's powers were used. Case and point, premonitions. Its no secret Phoebe never had the most desirable set of abilities, and what better way to perfectly illustrate this than her final premonition in the entire show her future vision from the final scene of Hulkus Pocus, which I deem to be the episode where Phoebe was at her worst! (I also have issues with how little premonitions she actually got after Season 2, but her lack of combat utility will be for another discussion) 



This visions showcases everything I disliked about how this power was used. The entire point of having premonition was to percieve events and were warning signs of past/future events. It was completely connected with their ability to save innocents, its the whole point she got a premonition to begin with. Not only that it wastes what could've been a cool idea with this power, like Phoebe astral projecting herself into her own visions as long as another version of Phoebe at some different time period was also having a vision would've been an AWESOME way to expand or use this power, maybe even exploring more things. Instead what we get is a power that feels like it had two completely different purposes in Seasons 1-5, compared to 6-8. And its jarring. 

With Phoebe's drastic and 180 personality change between Halliwell's Eve-Sleuthing and onward, this power sorta does the same thing from Season 5-Season 6. In fact the very first usage of this power has nothing to do with its intended purpose at all, its just about an office riot caused by her empathy powers going out of control. It really feels like when Phoebe became selfish, so did her power, it came off as more of a reflection/mirror of her personality they all became about her in some way, which feels different.. 

I mean take a look at this scene from The Power of Two where her power is clearly for an innocent. It was made specifically for that purpose, or helping others. 




With here you can see Phoebe channeling the innocent's pain and terror. While also giving them a warning as to what to do. But this is what was Phoebe's ultimate story, that she needed or had to find some man in a set period of time. A premonition is something you're suppose to prevent, not make happen! With this scene it felt like one giant dose of self pit and self assurance that her wish has to come true! It didn't feel like premonitions, the felt like magic 8 balls! Not to mention how with the exception of Kyra the Seer none related to innocents at all. 

What makes me hate Phoebe's "premonition" arc here is that since her last encounter was to marry a man under a complete lie and refuses to believe in her premonitions here simply because they didn't benefit her. It showcases how as the show went on her premonitions also reflected her self centered personality. After Season 5 she had NO premonitions related to helping innocents or alterting them to danger anymore. They either became about herself or affected her in some way.

I got so sick of seeing Future-Phoebe and her Alanis Morissette hair in that friggin vision. Plus they seemed to forget how that vision was about a future ruled by The Avatars. Yeah they were really just a glorified magic 8 ball for her personal life by the end. It's a shame, there's a lot they could've done with that power. What do you guys think?

[Elle Em]

I agree. I loved her power as a warning for events they were supposed to prevent. I don't mind her occasionally having a premonition that is about something nice, but it shouldn't happen often. It's like when Patty tells the sisters on Piper's wedding day that she had a premonition of that moment on the day Phoebe was born. That's a great way to have a premonition that's got nothing to do with saving anyone, but is just a nice moment. But of course the more you do that, the less it all means.

I wish they had gone further with the idea of the premonition/astral projection idea in season 5, where Phoebe almost seemed to go into her vision rather than just see things. That could lead to so many cool things happening that make her power almost active at that point. I'd still like to see ordinary premonitions, but if they were willing to expand the concept a little, there's plenty to work with to keep them interesting and let her powers grow. No need for levitation or empathy that way.

[Esmeralda]

Jun 30, 2020 7:21:15 GMT -5 Elle Em said:

I agree. I loved her power as a warning for events they were supposed to prevent. I don't mind her occasionally having a premonition that is about something nice, but it shouldn't happen often. It's like when Patty tells the sisters on Piper's wedding day that she had a premonition of that moment on the day Phoebe was born. That's a great way to have a premonition that's got nothing to do with saving anyone, but is just a nice moment. But of course the more you do that, the less it all means.

I wish they had gone further with the idea of the premonition/astral projection idea in season 5, where Phoebe almost seemed to go into her vision rather than just see things. That could lead to so many cool things happening that make her power almost active at that point. I'd still like to see ordinary premonitions, but if they were willing to expand the concept a little, there's plenty to work with to keep them interesting and let her powers grow. No need for levitation or empathy that way.

Agreed, totally. Although when their destiny was saving innocents rather than vanquishing the Source, I'll always count premonitions as the most important power, even if it had nothing to do with battles (YAWN!) because it showed them who needed saving. As Prue said, "It takes a lot of strength to see what you see" and what Melinda Warren said,

I think Phoebe's power would've been much more important (and desired) had Piper never gotten her explosion power and if Paige couldn't orb. Those two extra powers were not needed (but probably desired) and made Phoebe's power unimportant and unneeded to the point where all she needed it for was her baby-daddy search!

[imdb lives on]

I loath the daddy search arch. It was boring and repetitive. That should've counted as personal gain. That should be the reason Phoebe lose them

[Melinda Halliwell]

I agree with Phoebe's premonitions not been about saving innocents post season 5 which they still should've been about otherwise why did she get the power originally?

Furthering what Codebox and Elle Em said about what ways Phoebe's power could've been expanded and useful still on I saw this YouTube video awhile back from a fan who had some good ideas how he would've handled that without her having levitation or empathy also.

He said Phoebe's intuition could've kicked in more than just that one time the guy who had her power sensed where the energy ball was from her instruction with Phoebe anticipating when evil was about to attack or someone was in imminment danger closeby by getting a 30 second premonition.

When said evil struck Phoebe could see what their next move was and accommodated accordingly which would've gone great with her martial arts skills.

The BOS would've been like an encyclopedia where Phoebe touching and focusing on it got a vision on info about something they needed to know whether it's what villain they were after and how to vanquish it without opening up to the page saving research time.

She could've seen mentally where an innocent was in the local area when Piper, Paige, and her got to a demon vanquish.

And finally, Phoebe been psychic could've been more sensitive to people if she thought something was off about them and got a vision of that like when Paige had the chill about the creepy house in season 4 then.

Now if the show applied these advancements from season 3 spread out instead of Levitation especially with the intuition part which if Phoebe blocked opponents moves would count as the active side plus in future be able to call visions at will and share those like Kyra did not getting empathy season 6 Phoebe would be a formidable witch and have nothing to complain about then.

[Esmeralda]

Oops! I missed posting what Melinda Warren said about premonitions and my comment about it, so here's my post fixed (with the addition bolded).

Jun 30, 2020 7:21:15 GMT -5 Elle Em said:

I agree. I loved her power as a warning for events they were supposed to prevent. I don't mind her occasionally having a premonition that is about something nice, but it shouldn't happen often. It's like when Patty tells the sisters on Piper's wedding day that she had a premonition of that moment on the day Phoebe was born. That's a great way to have a premonition that's got nothing to do with saving anyone, but is just a nice moment. But of course the more you do that, the less it all means.

I wish they had gone further with the idea of the premonition/astral projection idea in season 5, where Phoebe almost seemed to go into her vision rather than just see things. That could lead to so many cool things happening that make her power almost active at that point. I'd still like to see ordinary premonitions, but if they were willing to expand the concept a little, there's plenty to work with to keep them interesting and let her powers grow. No need for levitation or empathy that way.

Agreed, totally. Although when their destiny was saving innocents rather than vanquishing the Source, I'll always count premonitions as the most important power, even if it had nothing to do with battles (YAWN!) because it showed them who needed saving. As Prue said, "It takes a lot of strength to see what you see" and what Melinda Warren said, "You see visions of the future and the past. That'll allow you to protect and to heal." I understand the protect part, but heal? It would be cool if Phoebe was the healer rather than Leo. More fans would've seen her power as desired.

I think Phoebe's power would've been much more important (and desired) had Piper never gotten her explosion power and if Paige couldn't orb. Those two extra powers were not needed (but probably desired) and made Phoebe's power unimportant and unneeded to the point where all she needed it for was her baby-daddy search!

[Elle Em]

Maybe by "heal," she meant psychologically rather than physically. We saw what great advice Phoebe gave to Piper in the second episode about their magic being a gift, and she did have a way of connecting with innocents in the first two seasons that was really special. 

[ryang]

What was the WORSE when the writers showed her trying to get one or Piper asking her to get one (I think in Repo Manor), so the writers knew exactly what they were doing just to piss off the fans.

[Esmeralda]

Jul 1, 2020 7:12:38 GMT -5 Elle Em said:

Maybe by "heal," she formeant psychologically rather than physically. We saw what great advice Phoebe gave to Piper in the second episode about their magic being a gift, and she did have a way of connecting with innocents in the first two seasons that was really special. 

You could very well be right about that. And I hadn't thought of it, so thanks for suggesting it.

[goldeneye049]

something that I never understood and yet I enjoy season 7. the premonition of the avatars who saved the world. What does it mean ? manipulation of avatars? a big inconsistency? it looks like the writers wanted to end with utopia and said to themselves "oh finally we drop the idea"

[Aaeiyn]

Aug 17, 2020 1:00:07 GMT -5 goldeneye049 said:

something that I never understood and yet I enjoy season 7. the premonition of the avatars who saved the world. What does it mean ? manipulation of avatars? a big inconsistency? it looks like the writers wanted to end with utopia and said to themselves "oh finally we drop the idea"

I believe it was Kyra manipulating Phoebe to help get Kyra to become "a human", so (like Zankou said) she can "save her own ...". He even said that she (Kyra) lied (before he killed her).  This was said between the two, and I don't believe Zankou would lie about that, in that private conversation especially since she didn't correct him/denied it ('cause nobody else was around except us, the audience). I believe this is somewhat consistent to what the Seer did in S4E21 "Womb Raider". After Paige got herself trapped in that "anti-magic" cage, the Seer said she was going to "send a message" (as in to Phoebe), and Phoebe gets a "premonition" of the Seer killing Paige, in the "anti-magic" cage.

I feel like Kyra did the same thing but manipulated it 'cause the Avatars were seeking to kill ALL demons or "just enough", so Demons wouldn't destroy Utopia.  And, needed the Charmed Ones help, to "make her human", so she wouldn't be on the Avatar hit list.

[Aaeiyn]

To add another type of "hallucination" premonition, S1E10 "Wicca Envy" had Rex "trick" Phoebe into getting a premonition (through his AP form) about Prue "being in danger" by some panther (though, us the audience assume it to be Hannah, since we've seen her turn into a panther, before). So, I feel it's possible for Phoebe to receive "fake" premonitions.