Post by codebox on Jun 30, 2020 15:18:33 GMT -5
I didn't know what to call the post, so I went with that. Before I start I do wonder what everyone thinks of my Charmed discussions? Are they too much, am I too knowledgeable or what? Let me know! haha Anyway as a sequel I guess you could say to the Phoebe's premonition board I made this is one I feel needs to be discussed. I've discussed Phoebe many times in how she went from my favorite to least favorite, an entire analysis on her character decline and powers etc, but I never talked specifically about how her power level seemed to non existent later.
My interest of this sparked by this twitter post where it showcases the demon attack scene in Imaginary Fiends and the biggest point of contention was how inconsequencial Phoebe was to the whole thing, she just hides being a table and gets blasted away. Which makes me wonder what the point of having Phoebe around by that point even was. The main theme of Phoebe's character when it comes to power is her powers not being offensive, but rather passive or support. Part of her arc magic wise in Season 1-2 was training to be effective enough to be good in her own right. Take for instance her first display of kickboxing training in Which Prue Is It, Anyway
This scene was a nice way to get Phoebe more involved fighting demons and interact differently. She can be active in her own right. I loved this way of showcasing she didn't need an active power to be active, especially if it worked in a way to have more scenes act involved that isn't just making the solution very easy. It even works partially to save the day in the end of the episode.
I liked how Phoebe gaining the ability to fend for herself actually worked to connect to the episode's ending plot. And there's even other scenario examples throughout the earlier seasons. Like Phoebe stopping Nicholas from completely suffocating them at the beginning of That 70's episode, and by far my favorite display from Phoebe had to come from The Painted World from Season 2 where she casted a smart spell. In this episode Phoebe proved single handedly she could save the day without deflecting fireballs or being offensive. As seen here
This scene was the perfect display of Phoebe not even needing an active power, yet she outsmarted and handled a warlock on her own. This wasn't just someone she could toss around. This was a warlock who had the power to teleport and Phoebe still came out on top! She even proved effective in freeing her sisters from the painting and vanquishing them. And throughout earlier seasons this type of fighting style would be used greatly. Even in Season 3 while her character declined, her fighting abilities did not! In fact Season 3 had a lot more combat focused scenes displayed this season, so a good amount of episodes showcased Phoebe on equal footing. Like the Courtroom scene in The HoneyMoon's Over, Phoebe is on equal footing with her sisters in the battle and while her levitation was useless it did serve a purpose in giving Phoebe room to show her martial arts skills, such as Hell Hath No Fury and Enter the Demon
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycIF8XzsYd0 (Courtroom Scene)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHZ5YP4saC8&list=PLP-IKZP4kCpIfRVN5TD2XEHhtBpq2Ch7N&index=33 (Phoebe fighting Yenlo)
What I admired most was Phoebe always wanting to prove she could be good or active in her own right. She always desired an active power, but could still do her own thing. Even in Season 5 when she started having power struggle she actually noted how she hadn't had a premonition or could levitate in a while.
youtu.be/9rB9R0ObtGw?t=115 It was a scene of self awareness and showed she still had powers or worried about them being less active. This raises an interesting question. Phoebe's premonition power barely becomes a key factor after Season 2. The amount she has between Seasons 2 and 3 is noticeably low and in Seasons 4 & 5 she barely has them again except with a few notable instance. Phoebe's power progress (much like her character "progression" or lack thereof) went down in usage. In fact after this season she practically becomes useless in battle aside from a few key instances (especially in Seasons 7 & 8 where she's virtually a mortal who occasionally kicks an enemy or uses potions by necessity just to give herself some offense)
In Seasons 1 & 2 Phoebe was all about wanting an offensive power and be as strong as her sisters (she even proved this certain points back when she was a likable, fun character) Now it doesn't really seem to be as big of a concerning issue. And she gets no power improvements afterwards. Once Cole came into her life in Season 3 and she became a self centered character everything was less about her premonitions and more about her love life/self interests.
It really sucks how little is done with Phoebe's lack of power progression. Considering this is one of the few notable instances in later seasons her power becomes a factor despite later seasons not being as good as the first 4.
However I do like this episode as it is one of my favorites!
It feels like an older season episode and just the fact they even make Phoebe's premonitions take up the forefront of the plot is actually nice to see, and it actually develops into Astral Premonition. I would've loved to see more Astral Premonition personally. But it doesn't and aside from her fight scene against the shapeshifter in The Importance of Being Phoebe she's largely negligible.
To me Oh My Goddess started the trend of Phoebe being useless in battle (even though in Season 4/5 she started being less useful, it was the finale onward where it started becoming noticable from a power standpoint than a character one) when the Charmed Ones are goddesses Phoebe ultimately does nothing against the Titans, she's just used for cheap fanservice/comedic relief. Its Piper who Power of One's them into a cavern she emits from the floor, while Paige uses her trident to make the portal bigger, meanwhile the only display of Phoebe in combat is her being thrown around while screaming Piper. youtu.be/s1FBqNtplAs?t=104
And aside from a couple Empathy stuff and that one scene in My Three Witches Phoebe's combat and priorities completely shift. She no longer is considered in battle and her premonition and levitation are used so little you wouldn't even notice them. Her last levitation scene for instance is just her hovering in place to be a lure. And its never used again! What gets me is how Phoebe never seems concerned with how she's almost never getting a premonition, she doesn't question it or anything, even her lack of a power didn't seem to matter anymore. Even in Season 5 there was that scene in Eyes Have it where Phoebe was at least questioning about her powers, in Season 6 its nothing, its just replaced with babies and a man.
Then once she gets her powers stripped by the tribunal she becomes as effective as an untrained mortal. From that point on demon vanquishing is completely left up to Piper or occasionally Paige. Think about how many demon vanquishes does Phoebe actually do in Seasons 7 & 8? She pretty much does almost NONE! You even get things like Styx Feet Under where she feels inadequate because of her lack of active power, even though Season 2 proved she didn't need one to be effective! And even once she goes back to square one and gains premonitions she doesn't consider picking up slack, she's just there during demon fights. She had to use Potions by necesscity.
In fact here's a compliation of every Season 7 vanquish. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxh_jo2luoQ notice something? Phoebe's vanquish count is so comparitively small or non existent here. She either used a potion (which at that point is just Piper's exploding power) And one just happened to be because a bat was conveniently in front of her. She doesn't even attempt to martial arts or anything, she'll just chuck a potion occasionally if she had one!
Which brings us back to the Imaginary Fiend's scene Phoebe does nothing to contribute, she doesn't even try to sneak up on the villains, she just sits there and gets blasted. Not to mention even in the finale Zankou uses her own premonition power to more effect than Phoebe did in the previous couple of seasons! And in Season 8 Phoebe has it worse, she just stands there most of the time. Even when they fight the Triad for instance Phoebe just runs away and doesn't participate at all! Yes you can say "their plan was to split them" but this wouldn't have even worked if one Triad member hadn't stupidly followed her and ignored the other's warning, its once again Piper and Paige that do all the work. Phoebe doesn't even use potions this season! (Not to mention the blast separated them anyway)
And as far as involvement goes that is her last big contribution not counting the Billie/Christy thing. Why is she somehow less powerful than when she was captured by Javna in episode 2?
My interest of this sparked by this twitter post where it showcases the demon attack scene in Imaginary Fiends and the biggest point of contention was how inconsequencial Phoebe was to the whole thing, she just hides being a table and gets blasted away. Which makes me wonder what the point of having Phoebe around by that point even was. The main theme of Phoebe's character when it comes to power is her powers not being offensive, but rather passive or support. Part of her arc magic wise in Season 1-2 was training to be effective enough to be good in her own right. Take for instance her first display of kickboxing training in Which Prue Is It, Anyway
This scene was a nice way to get Phoebe more involved fighting demons and interact differently. She can be active in her own right. I loved this way of showcasing she didn't need an active power to be active, especially if it worked in a way to have more scenes act involved that isn't just making the solution very easy. It even works partially to save the day in the end of the episode.
I liked how Phoebe gaining the ability to fend for herself actually worked to connect to the episode's ending plot. And there's even other scenario examples throughout the earlier seasons. Like Phoebe stopping Nicholas from completely suffocating them at the beginning of That 70's episode, and by far my favorite display from Phoebe had to come from The Painted World from Season 2 where she casted a smart spell. In this episode Phoebe proved single handedly she could save the day without deflecting fireballs or being offensive. As seen here
This scene was the perfect display of Phoebe not even needing an active power, yet she outsmarted and handled a warlock on her own. This wasn't just someone she could toss around. This was a warlock who had the power to teleport and Phoebe still came out on top! She even proved effective in freeing her sisters from the painting and vanquishing them. And throughout earlier seasons this type of fighting style would be used greatly. Even in Season 3 while her character declined, her fighting abilities did not! In fact Season 3 had a lot more combat focused scenes displayed this season, so a good amount of episodes showcased Phoebe on equal footing. Like the Courtroom scene in The HoneyMoon's Over, Phoebe is on equal footing with her sisters in the battle and while her levitation was useless it did serve a purpose in giving Phoebe room to show her martial arts skills, such as Hell Hath No Fury and Enter the Demon
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycIF8XzsYd0 (Courtroom Scene)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHZ5YP4saC8&list=PLP-IKZP4kCpIfRVN5TD2XEHhtBpq2Ch7N&index=33 (Phoebe fighting Yenlo)
What I admired most was Phoebe always wanting to prove she could be good or active in her own right. She always desired an active power, but could still do her own thing. Even in Season 5 when she started having power struggle she actually noted how she hadn't had a premonition or could levitate in a while.
youtu.be/9rB9R0ObtGw?t=115 It was a scene of self awareness and showed she still had powers or worried about them being less active. This raises an interesting question. Phoebe's premonition power barely becomes a key factor after Season 2. The amount she has between Seasons 2 and 3 is noticeably low and in Seasons 4 & 5 she barely has them again except with a few notable instance. Phoebe's power progress (much like her character "progression" or lack thereof) went down in usage. In fact after this season she practically becomes useless in battle aside from a few key instances (especially in Seasons 7 & 8 where she's virtually a mortal who occasionally kicks an enemy or uses potions by necessity just to give herself some offense)
In Seasons 1 & 2 Phoebe was all about wanting an offensive power and be as strong as her sisters (she even proved this certain points back when she was a likable, fun character) Now it doesn't really seem to be as big of a concerning issue. And she gets no power improvements afterwards. Once Cole came into her life in Season 3 and she became a self centered character everything was less about her premonitions and more about her love life/self interests.
It really sucks how little is done with Phoebe's lack of power progression. Considering this is one of the few notable instances in later seasons her power becomes a factor despite later seasons not being as good as the first 4.
However I do like this episode as it is one of my favorites!
It feels like an older season episode and just the fact they even make Phoebe's premonitions take up the forefront of the plot is actually nice to see, and it actually develops into Astral Premonition. I would've loved to see more Astral Premonition personally. But it doesn't and aside from her fight scene against the shapeshifter in The Importance of Being Phoebe she's largely negligible. To me Oh My Goddess started the trend of Phoebe being useless in battle (even though in Season 4/5 she started being less useful, it was the finale onward where it started becoming noticable from a power standpoint than a character one) when the Charmed Ones are goddesses Phoebe ultimately does nothing against the Titans, she's just used for cheap fanservice/comedic relief. Its Piper who Power of One's them into a cavern she emits from the floor, while Paige uses her trident to make the portal bigger, meanwhile the only display of Phoebe in combat is her being thrown around while screaming Piper. youtu.be/s1FBqNtplAs?t=104
And aside from a couple Empathy stuff and that one scene in My Three Witches Phoebe's combat and priorities completely shift. She no longer is considered in battle and her premonition and levitation are used so little you wouldn't even notice them. Her last levitation scene for instance is just her hovering in place to be a lure. And its never used again! What gets me is how Phoebe never seems concerned with how she's almost never getting a premonition, she doesn't question it or anything, even her lack of a power didn't seem to matter anymore. Even in Season 5 there was that scene in Eyes Have it where Phoebe was at least questioning about her powers, in Season 6 its nothing, its just replaced with babies and a man.
Then once she gets her powers stripped by the tribunal she becomes as effective as an untrained mortal. From that point on demon vanquishing is completely left up to Piper or occasionally Paige. Think about how many demon vanquishes does Phoebe actually do in Seasons 7 & 8? She pretty much does almost NONE! You even get things like Styx Feet Under where she feels inadequate because of her lack of active power, even though Season 2 proved she didn't need one to be effective! And even once she goes back to square one and gains premonitions she doesn't consider picking up slack, she's just there during demon fights. She had to use Potions by necesscity.
In fact here's a compliation of every Season 7 vanquish. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxh_jo2luoQ notice something? Phoebe's vanquish count is so comparitively small or non existent here. She either used a potion (which at that point is just Piper's exploding power) And one just happened to be because a bat was conveniently in front of her. She doesn't even attempt to martial arts or anything, she'll just chuck a potion occasionally if she had one!
Which brings us back to the Imaginary Fiend's scene Phoebe does nothing to contribute, she doesn't even try to sneak up on the villains, she just sits there and gets blasted. Not to mention even in the finale Zankou uses her own premonition power to more effect than Phoebe did in the previous couple of seasons! And in Season 8 Phoebe has it worse, she just stands there most of the time. Even when they fight the Triad for instance Phoebe just runs away and doesn't participate at all! Yes you can say "their plan was to split them" but this wouldn't have even worked if one Triad member hadn't stupidly followed her and ignored the other's warning, its once again Piper and Paige that do all the work. Phoebe doesn't even use potions this season! (Not to mention the blast separated them anyway)
And as far as involvement goes that is her last big contribution not counting the Billie/Christy thing. Why is she somehow less powerful than when she was captured by Javna in episode 2?
