zachary
Whitelighter
✨Follow me, my friends, to glory at..the..end ✨
Posts: 4,531
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Post by zachary on Feb 14, 2022 10:58:39 GMT -5
So I've been thinking a lot about this during my recent rewatch.
A lootttt of people, including myself, have ragged on the character Phoebe became after a specific season- the majority suggest S5 after Alyssa became producer.
But aside from that, I wanna talk about the idea that Phoebe also became that somewhat excruciating person, because Connie was no longer in control.
I sometimes forget that Connie Burge literally fashioned the girls off her own sister's and herself, creating Phoebe from her own cloth. I love that idea, because when I rewatch the show, I see that Phoebe was actually the leading character, despite the fact that her character had the most internal conflict and mostly negated her sisters- acting on her own tuition, or intuition, literally. In the beginning, Phoebe was such a loveable character, and she was so relatable as the youngest sister, the baby of the family. And not to mention, even though she was technically seen, by evil, as the most powerless character, it was her premonitions that jumpstarted the plot of almost every single episode up until S4.
I think about how much of the show happens because Phoebe touched something and had a premonition, and it makes sense how we stopped seeing how important that power was once Connie left.
I also think about how much Phoebe loved the craft, and loved studying the book and being all about their magic. It's just amazing to think about how much she reflected the creator of the show, and even though Connie could made herself to be all-powerful through Phoebe, she chose to create the character as someone not so distinguished in life, and not even the most powerful, but has such a powerful gift in herself.
And I just wanna hear what everyone thinks about this, or about Phoebe and Connie's influence on each other, or how you think Phoebe could've evolved if Connie stayed on and continued living vicariously through her?
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Post by Emmett on Feb 14, 2022 19:08:19 GMT -5
That's exactly why. Phoebe was based on Connie, and her two older sisters based on Prue and Piper. It's no surprise that once Connie left, Phoebe suffered dearly. Now, she was written as to how Kern saw the younger sister or how Alyssa saw Phoebe, when she became a producer. I don't think Connie would have had Phoebe in a relationship with Cole period. I think she liked keeping her as the one sister who never had a long-lasting relationship, while Prue and Piper did. But, I do think, she'd have wanted her to grow, perhaps academically with her studies. I don't see her working at the Bay Mirror. I saw a wonderful interview on the board here, with Connie talking about her basing the sisters on herself and her two older sisters. I can't find the thread. But it is a great read. LATER: Found it: thecharmedcafe.proboards.com/thread/12870/story-charmed-constance-burge-interview |
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rebooted
Witch
Started watching at 12
Posts: 1,803 
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Post by rebooted on Feb 15, 2022 5:57:06 GMT -5
That's exactly why. Phoebe was based on Connie, and her two older sisters based on Prue and Piper. It's no surprise that once Connie left, Phoebe suffered dearly. Now, she was written as to how Kern saw the younger sister or how Alyssa saw Phoebe, when she became a producer. I don't think Connie would have had Phoebe in a relationship with Cole period. I think she liked keeping her as the one sister who never had a long-lasting relationship, while Prue and Piper did. But, I do think, she'd have wanted her to grow, perhaps academically with her studies. I don't see her working at the Bay Mirror. I saw a wonderful interview on the board here, with Connie talking about her basing the sisters on herself and her two older sisters. I can't find the thread. But it is a great read. LATER: Found it: thecharmedcafe.proboards.com/thread/12870/story-charmed-constance-burge-interviewI think Connie would have been for Phoebe and Cole's relationship but ending at Sleuthing or an episode after it? Looking at the timing when she seemed have not have control - I think the Cole character would have been the difference that Brad and Connie had and Brad won. What was supposed to be only 1/3 of a season ended up being 1/3 of the entire show and destroyed Phoebe's character. Phoebe then could have had a Miles like relationship towards the end of the Season similar to Jack Sheridan. Phoebe for me didn't really become annoying until Marry Go Round. But I could still tolerate her. Its her change in character in Witch Way Now? and then permanently onwards in 5x01 when she is a celebrity and well a selfish mermaid not wanting to help innocents. Again, if Cole did stay, then his exit should have been in LLTQ - that would have been a great tribute to Cole's character and Phoebe could have rebooted herself back to coming back from being a bad-ass from the Clay days again. The change in birth order did not help. But that again could have been different it Paige lived across the street and not in the manor - and Phoebe kept her younger sister status. |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920 
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Post by Esmeralda on Feb 15, 2022 8:54:05 GMT -5
That's exactly why. Phoebe was based on Connie, and her two older sisters based on Prue and Piper. It's no surprise that once Connie left, Phoebe suffered dearly. Now, she was written as to how Kern saw the younger sister or how Alyssa saw Phoebe, when she became a producer. I don't think Connie would have had Phoebe in a relationship with Cole period. I think she liked keeping her as the one sister who never had a long-lasting relationship, while Prue and Piper did. But, I do think, she'd have wanted her to grow, perhaps academically with her studies. I don't see her working at the Bay Mirror. I saw a wonderful interview on the board here, with Connie talking about her basing the sisters on herself and her two older sisters. I can't find the thread. But it is a great read. LATER: Found it: thecharmedcafe.proboards.com/thread/12870/story-charmed-constance-burge-interviewI *do* think that Connie would've had Phoebe and Cole be in a relationship because that's what Spelling wanted. But she always wanted each relationship to only last one season, the way Prue & Andy and Piper & Dan did, so I think Phoebe and Cole would've only lasted one season and Phoebe never would've turned into PhoeME. Oh, IF ONLY!!! Then they may have been my favorite couple rather than one of my least-favorite. Ditto for Piper and Leo if Leo had stayed in S1 where he belonged. |
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Post by Emmett on Feb 15, 2022 13:38:45 GMT -5
That's exactly why. Phoebe was based on Connie, and her two older sisters based on Prue and Piper. It's no surprise that once Connie left, Phoebe suffered dearly. Now, she was written as to how Kern saw the younger sister or how Alyssa saw Phoebe, when she became a producer. I don't think Connie would have had Phoebe in a relationship with Cole period. I think she liked keeping her as the one sister who never had a long-lasting relationship, while Prue and Piper did. But, I do think, she'd have wanted her to grow, perhaps academically with her studies. I don't see her working at the Bay Mirror. I saw a wonderful interview on the board here, with Connie talking about her basing the sisters on herself and her two older sisters. I can't find the thread. But it is a great read. LATER: Found it: thecharmedcafe.proboards.com/thread/12870/story-charmed-constance-burge-interviewI *do* think that Connie would've had Phoebe and Cole be in a relationship because that's what Spelling wanted. But she always wanted each relationship to only last one season, the way Prue & Andy and Piper & Dan did, so I think Phoebe and Cole would've only lasted one season and Phoebe never would've turned into PhoeME. Oh, IF ONLY!!! Then they may have been my favorite couple rather than one of my least-favorite. Ditto for Piper and Leo if Leo had stayed in S1 where he belonged. I'd be so much happier if it only lasted one season. If Cole was truly the big bad and the arc ended with Phoebe vanishing him. Even better. But I don't think Spelling would want that, especially if they still tried making Phoebe/Cole into their version of Buffy and Angel. But I trust Connie would make sure Phoebe wouldn't be PhoeMe during the arc. How do you think the arc would have ended? |
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Aaeiyn
Elder
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 5,490
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Post by Aaeiyn on Feb 15, 2022 16:26:36 GMT -5
I trust Connie would make sure Phoebe wouldn't be PhoeMe during the arc. I suppose everybody has their own version on what "Phoeme" even means. Could you elaborate in what "Phoeme" means to you? What qualities did Phoebe possess during this arc that you would consider to be under the "Phoeme" umbrella? |
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Post by Sandra on Apr 11, 2022 1:00:15 GMT -5
That's exactly why. Phoebe was based on Connie, and her two older sisters based on Prue and Piper. It's no surprise that once Connie left, Phoebe suffered dearly. Now, she was written as to how Kern saw the younger sister or how Alyssa saw Phoebe, when she became a producer. I don't think Connie would have had Phoebe in a relationship with Cole period. I think she liked keeping her as the one sister who never had a long-lasting relationship, while Prue and Piper did. But, I do think, she'd have wanted her to grow, perhaps academically with her studies. I don't see her working at the Bay Mirror. I saw a wonderful interview on the board here, with Connie talking about her basing the sisters on herself and her two older sisters. I can't find the thread. But it is a great read. LATER: Found it: thecharmedcafe.proboards.com/thread/12870/story-charmed-constance-burge-interviewI *do* think that Connie would've had Phoebe and Cole be in a relationship because that's what Spelling wanted. But she always wanted each relationship to only last one season, the way Prue & Andy and Piper & Dan did, so I think Phoebe and Cole would've only lasted one season and Phoebe never would've turned into PhoeME. Oh, IF ONLY!!! Then they may have been my favorite couple rather than one of my least-favorite. Ditto for Piper and Leo if Leo had stayed in S1 where he belonged. Wouldn't it have been great if Cole was only on for a single season. I almost wished that they didn't reveal Cole was a demon to the audience right away. They could have dragged out that plotline more. I think what I didn't like was it felt more from Cole's POV than the sisters in that S3. I also think Abbey's story could have worked well if that was its own separate storyline running alongside Who is Balthazar. If we didn't know Cole was already a demon. |
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Post by Emmett on Apr 12, 2022 20:00:51 GMT -5
I *do* think that Connie would've had Phoebe and Cole be in a relationship because that's what Spelling wanted. But she always wanted each relationship to only last one season, the way Prue & Andy and Piper & Dan did, so I think Phoebe and Cole would've only lasted one season and Phoebe never would've turned into PhoeME. Oh, IF ONLY!!! Then they may have been my favorite couple rather than one of my least-favorite. Ditto for Piper and Leo if Leo had stayed in S1 where he belonged. Wouldn't it have been great if Cole was only on for a single season. I almost wished that they didn't reveal Cole was a demon to the audience right away. They could have dragged out that plotline more. I think what I didn't like was it felt more from Cole's POV than the sisters in that S3. I also think Abbey's story could have worked well if that was its own separate storyline running alongside Who is Balthazar. If we didn't know Cole was already a demon. Sandra, I never thought of it that way. Having both those stories running side by side. So we're second guessing who might be Balthazar. Especially, if the audience doesn't know its Cole. Abbey, Shawn or Mitch and Cole all being suspects. |
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