Why Season 2 Doesn't Work by Better With Bob?

[sky1]

Do you agree/disagree and why?

[Aaeiyn]

Reminds me of me until reviewing the seasons in a different light. I don't hate S2 as much as I did and have found plentiful of great episodes in it.

I'm disappointed that the video uploader didn't mention Masselin, from S2E4 "The Devil's Music" as a "memorable villain/demon". IDK how anyone can forget about Masselin 'cause he is absolutely terrifying. Then again, the Piper & Leo drama ate up most of the episode.  And can distract away the awesomeness that is Masselin.

I do understand their point about S2 feeling too "dramatic" and "drawn out". And, magic being an after thought.

I will say I absolutely disagree about S2E14 "Pardon My Past" being a fantastic episode. I'm the oddball on that one. I tend to like the more fun episodes like S2E3 "The Painted World" or S2E6 "That Old Black Magic".

And, the more I watch S2E2 "Morality Bites", the more I hate it. So, I should probably stop watching it LOL

[greta]

Jul 19, 2023 2:08:08 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

Reminds me of me until reviewing the seasons in a different light. I don't hate S2 as much as I did and have found plentiful of great episodes in it.

I'm disappointed that the video uploader didn't mention Masselin, from S2E4 "The Devil's Music" as a "memorable villain/demon". IDK how anyone can forget about Masselin 'cause he is absolutely terrifying. Then again, the Piper & Leo drama ate up most of the episode.  And can distract away the awesomeness that is Masselin.

I do understand their point about S2 feeling too "dramatic" and "drawn out". And, magic being an after thought.

I will say I absolutely disagree about S2E14 "Pardon My Past" being a fantastic episode. I'm the oddball on that one. I tend to like the more fun episodes like S2E3 "The Painted World" or S2E6 "That Old Black Magic".

And, the more I watch S2E2 "Morality Bites", the more I hate it. So, I should probably stop watching it LOL

Masselin was one scary demon. Dare I say better than wimpy Half faced Source. Can Masselin be our Source.

I think that's why this episode gets overlooked. The Piper & Leo drama puts a stink on the episode. They are the worst part of the episode.

I don't see any threads/polls asking us who are our favorite one-time villains are. Could make an interesting thread topic for each season. But only ones who are in one episode, not the multi-episode ones. So Barbas, Source, Zankou etc. don't count. Give some love to the one-offs.

[Melinda Halliwell]

That would be interesting yes.

Off the top of my head up to season 5 my fav villains would probably be Jackson Ward from season 1 and the Rowe brothers. 

Season 2 Masselin and the Demon Of Illusion are separate picks plus Abraxis too.

Season 2 had some. great one-off demons along with the Spirit Killer Darklighter.

In season 3 you had Shadow the Warlock and Sutter from The Good And The Bad plus Raynor from the Brotherhood.

I liked Yen-Lo in season 4 and the Lazarus demon because he could reconstruct, Alastair and the Wizard as well although the second was more funny than scary overall.

Season 5 Cree, Bacarra, and Necron.

The latter seasons are a bit harder to pick but if I do I'll mention those somewhere obviously.

[rebooted]

He makes an interesting argument that I never really thought about.

I think I like Season 2 for its individual episodes the most but Season 1 for its overall storyline.

I like Prue and Phoebe a lot in S2 and I am one of the minority that doesn't mind the love triangle storyline.

I disagree that Season 8 is better.

I agree that magic is the afterthought - but thats why I like Charmed (again I might be the minority)

I like the human looking demons over the scary looking ones in the first 4 seasons.

Season 3 being better? I think the direction and acting is on form in season 3 But all 3 sisters become a bit more unlikeable and it does seem Cole focused (or beginning too).

I think he likes the darkness of the series which is why he likes Season 4, 1 and 3 ( I think in that order). I think i would have rated the seasons like this 10 years ago but now I am more 1,2,3,4.

I remember having to chose my first DVD set between Seasons 1, 2, 3 and 4. And Season 2 was the one I chose because I knew it had to be a Prue season but also because I knew I would enjoy the individual episodes a lot more. With Season 3 I felt I knew where things were headed and Season 1 felt outdated at the time I bought Season 2 in 2006.

Also I like how Season 2 feels light (and the lighting is soft) but the sisters still feel like they are in an element of danger and they aren't super powerful yet.

[Keeper Of Melinda's Locket]

Jul 31, 2023 20:33:04 GMT -5 rebooted said:

He makes an interesting argument that I never really thought about.

I think I like Season 2 for its individual episodes the most but Season 1 for its overall storyline.

I like Prue and Phoebe a lot in S2 and I am one of the minority that doesn't mind the love triangle storyline.

I disagree that Season 8 is better.

I agree that magic is the afterthought - but thats why I like Charmed (again I might be the minority)

I like the human looking demons over the scary looking ones in the first 4 seasons.

Season 3 being better? I think the direction and acting is on form in season 3 But all 3 sisters become a bit more unlikeable and it does seem Cole focused (or beginning too).

I think he likes the darkness of the series which is why he likes Season 4, 1 and 3 ( I think in that order). I think i would have rated the seasons like this 10 years ago but now I am more 1,2,3,4.

I remember having to chose my first DVD set between Seasons 1, 2, 3 and 4. And Season 2 was the one I chose because I knew it had to be a Prue season but also because I knew I would enjoy the individual episodes a lot more. With Season 3 I felt I knew where things were headed and Season 1 felt outdated at the time I bought Season 2 in 2006.

Also I like how Season 2 feels light (and the lighting is soft) but the sisters still feel like they are in an element of danger and they aren't super powerful yet.

This was the first season (Thanks rebooted for reminding me.) since the 1 scene in "Which Prue Is It Anway" with Andy) where an episode ended without one of the Halliwell's present . Cole gets the cliffhangers in "Magic Hour", "Power Outage" and "Exit Strategy".

Power Outage for the most part feels Cole centric where its more written from his POV throughout. Not something the show had done before S3 with any of the costars who were not a Charmed One. They may have gotten screentime, but they were always supporting the leads, or it was more a joint story e.g Piper/Leo, Prue/Andy. 

S2 is a very light season. It even was shot that way to me. I wonder whose decision it was to change the tone from S1 to S2. We didn't get any episodes like "From Fear to Eternity", "Wendigo", "Woogy" or "Dream Sorcerer", which were very dark and scary. 'The Devil's Music" might come close for Maslin, but the overall season was very light in nature. S3 seemed to go back to S1's tone but took it a step further into a more serialized storyline with regards to Cole. But it seemed more dark than S1, because for the most part S1 had side-stories and B-plots to balance out the darkness. S3 didn't have as many B plots like S1 and S2 did and they went away from ones that were tailored to the Halliwells place of work.

It seemed like S2 was a less challenging season for the sisters. Outside of the love triangle, they're all in the zone with not much drama at all. 

[rebooted]

Jul 31, 2023 20:53:18 GMT -5 Keeper Of Melinda's Locket said:

Jul 31, 2023 20:33:04 GMT -5 rebooted said:

He makes an interesting argument that I never really thought about.

I think I like Season 2 for its individual episodes the most but Season 1 for its overall storyline.

I like Prue and Phoebe a lot in S2 and I am one of the minority that doesn't mind the love triangle storyline.

I disagree that Season 8 is better.

I agree that magic is the afterthought - but thats why I like Charmed (again I might be the minority)

I like the human looking demons over the scary looking ones in the first 4 seasons.

Season 3 being better? I think the direction and acting is on form in season 3 But all 3 sisters become a bit more unlikeable and it does seem Cole focused (or beginning too).

I think he likes the darkness of the series which is why he likes Season 4, 1 and 3 ( I think in that order). I think i would have rated the seasons like this 10 years ago but now I am more 1,2,3,4.

I remember having to chose my first DVD set between Seasons 1, 2, 3 and 4. And Season 2 was the one I chose because I knew it had to be a Prue season but also because I knew I would enjoy the individual episodes a lot more. With Season 3 I felt I knew where things were headed and Season 1 felt outdated at the time I bought Season 2 in 2006.

Also I like how Season 2 feels light (and the lighting is soft) but the sisters still feel like they are in an element of danger and they aren't super powerful yet.

This was the first season where an episode ended without one of the Halliwell's present (Andy, Darryl, Dan or Leo I don't think got that in S1-S2). Cole gets the cliffhangers in "Magic Hour", "Power Outage" and "Exit Strategy".

 I remembered 1 - 

Which Prue Is It Anyway?

[Scene: Andy's office. He has a folder of Prue's confidential files. He's looking through newspaper clippings and finds one on witchcraft. He then picks up the Bay Area Music Awards tickets and her fingerprints chart. He puts it all back in his draw and sits back in his chair.]

[Keeper Of Melinda's Locket]

Jul 31, 2023 22:29:30 GMT -5 rebooted said:

Jul 31, 2023 20:53:18 GMT -5 Keeper Of Melinda's Locket said:

This was the first season where an episode ended without one of the Halliwell's present (Andy, Darryl, Dan or Leo I don't think got that in S1-S2). Cole gets the cliffhangers in "Magic Hour", "Power Outage" and "Exit Strategy".

 I remembered 1 - 

Which Prue Is It Anyway?

[Scene: Andy's office. He has a folder of Prue's confidential files. He's looking through newspaper clippings and finds one on witchcraft. He then picks up the Bay Area Music Awards tickets and her fingerprints chart. He puts it all back in his draw and sits back in his chair.]

Thanks for reminding me. I re-edited my post.

[Aaeiyn]

Jul 31, 2023 20:53:18 GMT -5 Keeper Of Melinda's Locket said:

It seemed like S2 was a less challenging season for the sisters. Outside of the love triangle, they're all in the zone with not much drama at all. 

Which doesn't work, for me. And, I think this is where I split with the fan base, at least here. These boards must like it when they're not fighting, whereas I like it, when they do. Which is probably why I like the later seasons 'cause they have more depth going on than just S2's take on "we're sisters, and we're fighting evil".

[myystery]

I haven't seen the video, but judging from his other videos he seems to be into both serialized television and dark storylines - Season 2 offers neither of that. Season 2 of Charmed is like a relict of the past, a kind of television that is not made anymore. Modern shows on Netfix and other streaming services are mostly serialized with short episode orders and always endangered of running past themselves. There is no time for characters to breathe and settings to develop, most of these shows therefore struggle with convincing world-building. Season 2 of Charmed is not the best example, because a lot of time could have been used more efficiently and satisfying, but I like that slower procdural approach. Modern audiences are so afraid of "filler" that they don't even realize what "filler" actually is. Moving away from the "main storyline" temporarily often enriches that storyline while prolonging those storylines for the sake of keeping it serialized often fall to the detriment of its quality by endless repeating.

If anyone also loved the tv show Fringe back then, this article deals with similar matter: www.primetimer.com/features/fringe-fox-sci-fi-jj-abrams-anna-torv-john-noble-joshua-jackson

[lunchking]

Oct 11, 2023 12:53:58 GMT -5 myystery said:

I haven't seen the video, but judging from his other videos he seems to be into both serialized television and dark storylines - Season 2 offers neither of that. Season 2 of Charmed is like a relict of the past, a kind of television that is not made anymore. Modern shows on Netfix and other streaming services are mostly serialized with short episode orders and always endangered of running past themselves. There is no time for characters to breathe and settings to develop, most of these shows therefore struggle with convincing world-building. Season 2 of Charmed is not the best example, because a lot of time could have been used more efficiently and satisfying, but I like that slower procdural approach. Modern audiences are so afraid of "filler" that they don't even realize what "filler" actually is. Moving away from the "main storyline" temporarily often enriches that storyline while prolonging those storylines for the sake of keeping it serialized often fall to the detriment of its quality by endless repeating.

If anyone also loved the tv show Fringe back then, this article deals with similar matter: www.primetimer.com/features/fringe-fox-sci-fi-jj-abrams-anna-torv-john-noble-joshua-jackson

Yeah that's how modern shows are done. And I actually find its bores me more sometimes. I don't know why, but half the time it almost feels like a storyline is just dragging on. I'm fine with a storyline lasting more than one episode and building on it. But every episode is one never-ending story, and the pacing is TOO fast paced. An entire season can be set within a week or two. I'm starting to appreciate the old approach, since it feels like characters are able to breathe, and not all filler is actually bad. Some standalone stories DO move the storylines along, and give character development to characters when the focus shifts to them. Sometimes I feel like modern storytelling wants to focus on the "main storyline" too much that characters get shafted and left in the background. I remember reading an interview with some writers when fans complained some characters on a show were not getting much screentime and the excuse was they didn't serve the "main storyline" and that was their main focus, and we didn't have time to tell their stories. Proving how short 8-10 episode seasons sometimes does work against a show when their priority is the main storyline not the characters.

I didn't mind the approach that Buffy and Supernatural did with their shows. They did have a main storyline every season, but were not focusing on the main storyline or villain every episode to tell storylines for characters, give character development and dig into the characters some more. 

Those shows and Charmed are really part of a time that is no longer part of television. It seems like people are expecting the quality of a movie done on a television screen with one story told over 6-8 hours. But I sadly don't think it'll ever go back to that way, as Network TV is dying. 

[myystery]

Yes, I wholeheartly agree. I don't know much about Buffy, but I remember back in the day when Supernatural and Fringe first aired, there was a segment of both fanbases that complained about every episode that didn't move the "main storyline" along and I never agreed. Actually, a lot of the more standalone or slightly "mythalone" episode have the most rewatch value, because they don't depend on the episodes before and afterwards and yet offer the rich characters that were given time to be themselves. There don't have to be the highest stakes all the time, I like that "just a regular day in the life of" feeling of those episodes. Season 2 of Charmed offers a bit of that feeling.

Indeed, many modern shows feel drawn out and repetitive in spite of being fast paced, often just jumping from cliffhanger to cliffhanger while plodding along. It is those shows that don't really have truly memorable single episodes anymore because each episodes becomes interchangable as a side effect of the irrational need "to focus on the main storyline".

I miss the old days.

[Aaeiyn]

Agreeing (mostly) with lunchking and myystery , here.

One thing I wanted to say, though, is that while Charmed attempted to be more episodic rather than formulaic, sometimes, a lot of the episodic shows aren't as consistent with their story. Something, we (as Charmed fans) bring up is the show's inconsistency with its story.

For example, S1E1 "Something Wicca This Way Comes" classifies Jeremy as Piper's boyfriend. Jump straight into S5E18 "Cat House", and he's now Piper's ex-fiance...while, both scenarios paint Piper as "being with" Jeremy, in some capacity, the details on the "how", differ from episode to episode.

Charmed's not the only one to this. There's another show I love via "Boy Meets World" and its consistency is pretty all over the place, as well. Including actor changes to pretty established characters.

So, I think both versions of storytelling have their pros and cons. I will defend the modern TV shows of today, to a degree, that their consistency is probably better than older shows.

[Aaeiyn]

Wanted to add that most of my disdain for S2 (back in the day), besides the love triangle, is actually how the DvDs list out the episodes. For example, I really only like 1 episode (mostly) from A LOT of the DvD Discs. So, trying to navigate S2, on DvD only, is a pain!

It wasn't until Streaming, that made navigating S2 a bit easier. Something, as silly as how the episodes are laid out, on a DvD Disc, impaired my judgement -_-

[Aaeiyn]

Bringing my response from the Were Whitelighters a New Thing in the 20th Century thread to this thread:

Oct 15, 2023 6:35:42 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

Oct 14, 2023 17:10:59 GMT -5 Katie Warren said:

They seem to like to only do whatever fits the plot of whatever episode they're writing at the time. Charmed's not meant to be watched or binged. It is a show made to be watched in any order.  But I still love the show with all its flaws.

I don't mind Charmed being inconsistent. My problem is making the claim that certain seasons over others being "more inconsistent" (particularly S3-S8), and I don't find that to be true, at all.

In fact, I think S2 is the worst season with its consistency from episode to episode, unlike any other season. Other seasons, actually string along pretty well together, within their own season. S2 is the WORST at it, so I can see why "Better with Bob" takes issues with it.

But, like I said, it doesn't bother me. S2 still has very strong episodes in it, compared to other seasons. It's not the strongest in consistency from episode to the next (like other seasons), but the episodes they do come up with are pretty solid.

[Esmeralda]

I finally got a chance to watch this and I now know why I disagree with just about everything he says except for also loving my favorite episode, 'Morality Bites' (I don't like his other favorite, 'Pardon My Past'), and that's because he's a horror fan and I HATE horror because I hate being scared because it gives me nightmares.

And, yes, that makes no sense when my favorite episode is so scary - but just in one spot - Phoebe burning - the rest is all about the sisters and those are the episodes I love the most - and that Bob doesn't, except for this one.

What he loves is the villains while I loved to hate them.

But I can see how fans who like horror can love what he loves and hates what he hates. I keep saying it, it's us seeing Charmed differently that's part of the fun of being fans. Just because I love S2 except for the triangle doesn't make Bob wrong, the same way him loving horror doesn't make me wrong. It just makes us different, and I do think that's why this site is still active after the show being off the air for so long because different fans can see it differently and still enjoy it.

[Aaeiyn]

Oct 15, 2023 7:37:31 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

I finally got a chance to watch this and I now know why I disagree with just about everything he says except for also loving my favorite episode, 'Morality Bites' (I don't like his other favorite, 'Pardon My Past'), and that's because he's a horror fan and I HATE horror because I hate being scared because it gives me nightmares.

And, yes, that makes no sense when my favorite episode is so scary - but just in one spot - Phoebe burning - the rest is all about the sisters and those are the episodes I love the most - and that Bob doesn't, except for this one.

What he loves is the villains while I loved to hate them.

But I can see how fans who like horror can love what he loves and hates what he hates. I keep saying it, it's us seeing Charmed differently that's part of the fun of being fans. Just because I love S2 except for the triangle doesn't make Bob wrong, the same way him loving horror doesn't make me wrong. It just makes us different, and I do think that's why this site is still active after the show being off the air for so long because different fans can see it differently and still enjoy it.

I'm not a big fan of horror, either, but I don't mind some more of the more in depth villains than the simple "evil villain kills things" arc, that gets boring, after awhile. Plus, I don't think this show is all that scary, TBH.

Something S2 is very good at in just formulating basic villains compared to other seasons except S5. Both S2 & S5 don't really have complex villains compared to other seasons. S1 kind of had Rex & Hannah, along with Rodriguez. Though, I think Rex & Hannah are more complex than Rodriguez, but I digress.

S2 can feel fairly bland, as episode to episode are extremely disconnected especially compared to S1 (which was better at connecting its episodes).

However, I think S2 has better stand alone episodes compared to S5, as S5 suffers a similar fate that is S2. S2 is just better creating the one off episodes that carry a little bit more substance to them.

---

I'm part of a generation that likes a mix of a little bit of everything. I prefer some form of overarching story, but that story is not stretched throughout ALL the episodes. And, that each episode is its own case that needs solving, along with some complexity and substance to the story, where ALL characters are a beautiful blend off each other. Along with wonderful bits of sarcasm/funny moments. I do feel like S2 isn't has funny nor hilarious as S1 and S5-S8.

Which is why I find S1 to be the best because it's the only season that has the perfect blend of sisterly bonding, family history, episode cases, minor overarching story, complex villains that are entertaining to watch, etc., etc.

But, I feel sorry for S2 because S2 is when the Network began meddling in and started changing things around, along with the lead actors taking charge of their characters to be more like them, so there's that, as well. S2 really does begin this show's downfall. Connie can only do so much to keep her work as authentic as possible.

It's unfortunate that I can see the tugging and the pulling of who's really in charge of this show, throughout S2. That could be what the video uploader is feeling/sensing but is wrong about their conclusion.

I think the writers did pretty well with the S2 episodes we did get. I mainly liked the cases and not exactly the sisterly bonding, the love triangle/character development, etc., etc.

---

Speaking of "seeing things differently", OFC I do like the sisterly bonding, but I (also) like seeing other characters OUTSIDE of the sisters, tagging along their adventures, too. So, it's why I cling onto S1E20 "The Power of Two" 'cause Andy is there and tagging along and S4 with Leo & Cole as extra additions. S6 with Chris & S8 with Billie.

OFC, this is a concept I'm quite alone on. Most, if not all, of the fandom prefers JUST the sisters LOL

I think that concept was good, in the beginning, but it does get old after awhile. The focus is gotta change and alter, so it can continue forward.

The main thing I love about the show is the fact that Charmed had strong (but with flaws) female characters, and I'll always love it, for it.

At the end of the day, I still love its other message via "good vs evil". This concept, IMO, resonates with a lot of people, and why the show ran for as long as it did. Whether it's with the sisters, other characters around them, etc., etc. We all want to stop evil.

[Esmeralda]

Looking through some of my older posts, I found these which still explains why I love S2 so much, especially if you took out the triangle or matched Dan with Prue or Phoebe rather than Piper:

Jul 29, 2020 6:44:01 GMT -5 Elle Em said:

Season 2 was so, so much lighter than season 1 in so many ways. The overall way everything looked seemed lighter as well, like there were more shots in the daytime.

It does seem like they get a bit off track with things, like with Prue's sudden career and personality change, Piper randomly deciding to open a nightclub, and Leo becoming more of a main character combined with the increased whitelighter plots. The clothes were definitely more on the trashy side as well.

But even with the storylines I didn't like as much, I still enjoyed the overall tone. I'd prefer it a bit darker, but it's still a comforting season for me to rewatch.

And that's funny because I feel one of the main themes in S2 is their reaction towards death, which isn't light and not comforting at all.. But most of the episodes that revolves around death are among my favorites since they're so dramatic, much more than chasing demons, which for me gets very boring very fast.

Funny thing is if you'd done the same thing for S1, I would've picked every one and not just best chemistry and best stories, although if you'd included "best guest stars" (not supporting characters), I would've picked that one, too.

[Aaeiyn]

Oct 18, 2023 19:42:03 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

And that's funny because I feel one of the main themes in S2 is their reaction towards death, which isn't light and not comforting at all.. But most of the episodes that revolves around death are among my favorites since they're so dramatic, much more than chasing demons, which for me gets very boring very fast.

Funny thing is if you'd done the same thing for S1, I would've picked every one and not just best chemistry and best stories, although if you'd included "best guest stars" (not supporting characters), I would've picked that one, too.

Where I bolded and underlined, in the quote, is where I tend to not align. I'm not into super dramatic episodes. They're not re-watchable/"background watching" material.

It requires a sit down and an attentive mind, to soak in everything that's going on, in a full scope.

Versus, watching something like S2E18 "Chick Flick" where it doesn't focus on death, but it's just a fun episode, where it doesn't require a sit down nor an attentive mind. And, it's rewatchable/"background watching" material.

I think it gets extremely daunting to replay super dramatic episodes such as S2E1 "Witch Trial", S2E2 "Morality Bites", S2E12 "Awakened", etc., over and over, again.  They're not super fun episodes, they're depressing. Those episodes are good every once and awhile but not a repeat watch like S2E3 "The Painted World", S2E7 "They're Everywhere", S2E18 "Chick Flick", etc. More fun and exciting episodes that don't emotionally drain my soul.