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Post by greta on Jul 28, 2023 21:20:33 GMT -5
Okay, this is getting to be a BIT much. *lol* I have to ask, before we end up with mile-long posts, can we trim some of the excess, going forward? Maybe quote just the part(s) you’re responding to? I know I’m as guilty of this as anyone, believe me, so this isn’t directed at anyone specifically. Maybe it’s something that was only bugging me, and that’s fine if so. I just thought I should mention it. Yeah, I was going to trim down my next response and only respond to what I feel is relevant. I don't mind the long posts 'cause this is a discussion board, and I can always come back and tackle the read, later. I'm working on a post as we speak, but I'll do my best to keep it as organized as possible. That's what I was planning to do in time. Reply to just what I could and come back later to finish. Since the post isn't going away. Reply to the entire thing in one sitting. LOL Awesome, Aaeiyn. I might wait until you're done before I reply to it myself. |
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Post by greta on Jul 28, 2023 21:31:14 GMT -5
Andrew Keeper Of Melinda's Locket greta More on topic, warlocks really should have been a bigger deal, given that they were introduced as the evil equivalents of witches (and kind of predators of them, as well), and with our main trio of witches killing vanquishing ever greater forces of evil, the shift to “upper-level demons” is kind of odd. KEEPER: It does seem odd. I wish they had a much bigger deal on the show than the show had. It seemed that what went wrong with Charmed was due to The WB higher-ups more than Brad Kern who just did what he was told and didn't care as long as he was paid. Put it this way Brad Kern was Charmed's Shax and The WB higher-ups was Charmed's Source. What do you think of that? I think the demons started looking human and shimmered and threw energy balls was because The WB wanted to save money...they could've done that by keeping them warlocks without dividing it into breeds. That just added confusion. But I digress. GRETA: That sounds about right to me. The WB is the Source and Brad Kern is Shax. I really can see budget being the reason why they were looking human. I really think things would've been better off if they let Warlocks be human looking and demons always look demonic looking always, unless a demon possesses a human host like what the Source did with Shane. ----------------------------------------- ANDREW: Did they introduce the concept of the “Evil Charmed Ones” (aka the Rowe coven) too soon in the show’s run for that to work, do you think? KEEPER: I really think they did using it for a one-off episode. It was so weird that they decided to throw that away. But I have a hunch when world building, they slowly were crafting the upper level demons being more important than warlocks the deeper they got into S1. So the whole concept wasn't that important to them and just another fun story to craft that a writer came up with. That shows how little they cared for warlocks by even late S1, if this idea came up in the writers room, nobody seemed to protest or think this idea is really interesting that they should table it for future. GRETA: They really dropped the ball on that one. Why didn't they use that as a story-arc. In S3 we got the Triad and the Brotherhood, you could've easily have taken out the Brotherhood and used the Rowe Coven concept then. Brendon felt like an early concept version of what they eventually used with Cole. What if Cole was one of the brothers in the Rowe Coven or in this instance the Turner Coven. Could that have worked? ---------------------------- ANDREW: Their (Anti-Charmed?) circle hadn’t actually been formed, so they never even achieved their base-level power of three, let alone had their powers grow over time, but they were (supposed to be) the evil mirror of the Halliwells. Would increasingly more powerful warlocks have been believable after that, or accepted? Or would it have been like when witches stronger than “the most powerful good witches ever” (or however it was phrased) began appearing, and a number of fans got, shall we say, upset? KEEPER: What an interesting question. I don't know if they would've been accepted, but we did have a number of trios introduced later in Repo Manor and The Power of Three Blonded, obviously they were not warlocks in both. But, I do wonder if its possible the prophecy could've shifted to a new trio of warlocks, but I don't know if fans would've accepted it. Again it would be the case of going against canon when they already set that up in a one-off episode back in S1. GRETA: Maybe but I don't know if I'd like them just being replaced with a brand new set of warlocks. That's like the Charmed Ones dying and the prophecy shifts to a new set of witches. It's too bad because maybe Greg and Paul could've have come back somehow and found another brother. LOL
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zachary
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Post by zachary on Jul 28, 2023 21:31:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I was going to trim down my next response and only respond to what I feel is relevant. I don't mind the long posts 'cause this is a discussion board, and I can always come back and tackle the read, later. I'm working on a post as we speak, but I'll do my best to keep it as organized as possible. That's what I was planning to do in time. Reply to just what I could and come back later to finish. Since the post isn't going away. Reply to the entire thing in one sitting. LOL Awesome, Aaeiyn. I might wait until you're done before I reply to it myself. I've had such a busy week, I've been wanting to sit down and actually read through these and reply. I find myself with only a few minutes at a time to pop in, but I'm excited to see what you both write, and I'll be working on my responses as well. I'm thrilled that this erupted into a big conversation! |
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Post by Keeper Of Melinda's Locket on Jul 28, 2023 21:32:57 GMT -5
Okay, this is getting to be a BIT much. *lol* I have to ask, before we end up with mile-long posts, can we trim some of the excess, going forward? Maybe quote just the part(s) you’re responding to? I know I’m as guilty of this as anyone, believe me, so this isn’t directed at anyone specifically. Maybe it’s something that was only bugging me, and that’s fine if so. I just thought I should mention it. Yeah, I was going to trim down my next response and only respond to what I feel is relevant. I don't mind the long posts 'cause this is a discussion board, and I can always come back and tackle the read, later. I'm working on a post as we speak, but I'll do my best to keep it as organized as possible. I think we can take away the responses talking about being busy and the stuff that has nothing to do to the topic. LOL Just remove them. That's what I figured. You can always come back and reply to the rest later or jump in and just respond to what you feel like for now. Sounds good, Aaeiyn. No rush. |
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Post by Keeper Of Melinda's Locket on Jul 28, 2023 21:34:48 GMT -5
That's what I was planning to do in time. Reply to just what I could and come back later to finish. Since the post isn't going away. Reply to the entire thing in one sitting. LOL Awesome, Aaeiyn. I might wait until you're done before I reply to it myself. I've had such a busy week, I've been wanting to sit down and actually read through these and reply. I find myself with only a few minutes at a time to pop in, but I'm excited to see what you both write, and I'll be working on my responses as well. I'm thrilled that this erupted into a big conversation! That's alright. I hope you enjoy all the conversations we've had. I might hold off replying to anything else until tomorrow. |
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Post by Keeper Of Melinda's Locket on Jul 28, 2023 21:37:58 GMT -5
Andrew Keeper Of Melinda's Locket greta More on topic, warlocks really should have been a bigger deal, given that they were introduced as the evil equivalents of witches (and kind of predators of them, as well), and with our main trio of witches killing vanquishing ever greater forces of evil, the shift to “upper-level demons” is kind of odd. KEEPER: It does seem odd. I wish they had a much bigger deal on the show than the show had. It seemed that what went wrong with Charmed was due to The WB higher-ups more than Brad Kern who just did what he was told and didn't care as long as he was paid. Put it this way Brad Kern was Charmed's Shax and The WB higher-ups was Charmed's Source. What do you think of that? I think the demons started looking human and shimmered and threw energy balls was because The WB wanted to save money...they could've done that by keeping them warlocks without dividing it into breeds. That just added confusion. But I digress. GRETA: That sounds about right to me. The WB is the Source and Brad Kern is Shax. I really can see budget being the reason why they were looking human. I really think things would've been better off if they let Warlocks be human looking and demons always look demonic looking always, unless a demon possesses a human host like what the Source did with Shane. KEEPER: I do like the possession thing, it worked well on Supernatural for demons. But I prefer Warlocks being a much bigger part on the series. Demons were mysterious when they were much more unknown. Another thing I didn't care for was the Underworld and Up There. I just didn't feel it was necessary for the Charmed Ones to be able to go to the underworld at all. That never should've been seen. Keep the mystery of it just being mentioned but never seen. ----------------------------------------- ANDREW: Did they introduce the concept of the “Evil Charmed Ones” (aka the Rowe coven) too soon in the show’s run for that to work, do you think? KEEPER: I really think they did using it for a one-off episode. It was so weird that they decided to throw that away. But I have a hunch when world building, they slowly were crafting the upper level demons being more important than warlocks the deeper they got into S1. So the whole concept wasn't that important to them and just another fun story to craft that a writer came up with. That shows how little they cared for warlocks by even late S1, if this idea came up in the writers room, nobody seemed to protest or think this idea is really interesting that they should table it for future. GRETA: They really dropped the ball on that one. Why didn't they use that as a story-arc. In S3 we got the Triad and the Brotherhood, you could've easily have taken out the Brotherhood and used the Rowe Coven concept then. Brendon felt like an early concept version of what they eventually used with Cole. What if Cole was one of the brothers in the Rowe Coven or in this instance the Turner Coven. Could that have worked? ---------------------------- ANDREW: Their (Anti-Charmed?) circle hadn’t actually been formed, so they never even achieved their base-level power of three, let alone had their powers grow over time, but they were (supposed to be) the evil mirror of the Halliwells. Would increasingly more powerful warlocks have been believable after that, or accepted? Or would it have been like when witches stronger than “the most powerful good witches ever” (or however it was phrased) began appearing, and a number of fans got, shall we say, upset? KEEPER: What an interesting question. I don't know if they would've been accepted, but we did have a number of trios introduced later in Repo Manor and The Power of Three Blonded, obviously they were not warlocks in both. But, I do wonder if its possible the prophecy could've shifted to a new trio of warlocks, but I don't know if fans would've accepted it. Again it would be the case of going against canon when they already set that up in a one-off episode back in S1. GRETA: Maybe but I don't know if I'd like them just being replaced with a brand new set of warlocks. That's like the Charmed Ones dying and the prophecy shifts to a new set of witches. It's too bad because maybe Greg and Paul could've have come back somehow and found another brother. LOL
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Aaeiyn
Elder
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jul 29, 2023 1:38:32 GMT -5
IK I said I was working on a post, and that's true, it just took me quite a bit of time to break it down LOL I'm used to quoting a particular section of what someone said and responding in accordance to that. Forgive me, if I'm doing my responding, differently LOL Other forum boards I'm a part of, I'm just used to quoting and responding. Also, I won't be responding to EVERYTHING. Only parts where I feel like need to continue. That being said, time to respond! I'll even Spoil-Tag, to help reduce stretching. Andrew It really does make one wish that there had been someone on staff to keep track of the lore. While I agree, at the same time, part of this show's charm (no pun intended ;P) is its flaws of inconsistency. I mean, I don't even think the Prue character is all that consistent, so there you go. And, I just love the ideas us fans come up with, to make any of this make sense LOL I don't want to Spoil-Tag this because I feel it's somewhat important to the conversation: The only way I can make that work for myself is to headcanon that blinking used to be a power that some witches had, but over time warlocks hunted them all down and killed them for it, so now anyone left who can Blink would, by definition, most likely have to be a warlock. But I suspect even that’s putting way more thought into this than the showrunners did (as demonstrated by “Bride & Gloom” having the Charmed Ones suddenly manifesting the ability upon their conversion to evil… a conversion that did not repeat when Phoebe was married in a similar dark ceremony, but that’s neither here nor there). I'm going to say that Melinda wasn't exactly sure if "blinking" was part of Matthew's original tool kit. I think she assumed he "copied it from another witch", but Matthew's dialogue makes it seem like he has more abilities than just copying powers, when he copied Prue's TK ability. His line goes: I can share your powers, but you cannot share mine. Which was in response to Prue asking "how did you do that" to blinking. Which insinuates, at least to me, blinking is part of his original power set beyond just copying powers. Back to Spoil-Tagging! Also, you can add the Rowe coven to the list of warlocks who couldn’t Blink. Thank you. I forgot about them even though I do like that episode LOL A lot of information to remember. Originally, I think warlocks were witches who turned evil and killed other witches for their powers. Yeah, I'm getting that sense. Which would explain the aired pilot version better that two different camps can be included as "evil witches" can perform more than just stealing powers but just doing "evil" things like killing for the sake of it. However, as the Rowe coven showed, you could also be born a warlock. Later came the specific breeds... Right 🙄 IK Sheryl J. Anderson is praised around here, for her writing, and she's credited for writing S2E7 "They're Everywhere" which introduces the concept of "Warlock Breed". So, IDK, Sheryl seems to be just as lost about writing Warlocks, too LOL Looks like everybody had their own interpretation of what a Warlock is supposed to be 😆 You know what might have made that make some kind of sense? If those were more like warlocks in the D&D sense of the term: people who had made a pact with some kind of supernatural entity (obviously an evil one, in this setting). Their powers would all be the same because they were coming from the same source. Then you could have a recurring antagonist faction that you wouldn’t have to keep coming up with backstory for every episode, and you could maybe even end the season with the Charmed Ones going up against the demonic patron directly. Heck, you could even have some of the (surviving) now powerless minions seeking revenge on the Charmed Ones for all they’d lost. Funny enough, Greg told Brendan about how he's "praying to the wrong deity" LOL Maybe that is the case for the Rowe Coven 🤷♀️ But I guess that would have been a bit too nuanced for this show. Wouldn’t want anyone to start asking if it was possible for warlocks to be steered away from evil, after all. To be saved. IDK, I feel like they've tried with a few characters (not necessarily Warlocks) like Bane, Cole, Brody, etc. Too bad they didn't execute it, well. There could be “evil witches”, but no good warlocks. Once you did anything that smacked of embracing evil - even if that something was just not pulling a Brendan, or trying to use your powers for good - you were irredeemable. (Unless, of course, you were Phoebe. Then you could be forgiven for anything up to and including multiple counts of murder.) Why have our leading ladies have to struggle with the idea that they might have to kill people to save innocent lives, when you can make the antagonists cartoonishly evil, so flat and one-dimensional that everyone will cheer when they’re killed vanquished, and our heroines can sleep soundly at night? The only "murder" I can think of, that gets a lot of people's attention is Rick's in S6E17 "Hyde School Reunion". I don't ever recall her murdering, anyone else. Unless, we're counting S2E2 "Morality Bites". That being said, I feel like Piper being the TRUE S8 villain is vastly overlooked, but that's another conversation, to be had. I swear, the writing room had one of these sitting on a desk:  LOL Unfortunately, I think there was just too much conflict between producers and the Network, as Holly has stated in interviews. That this is the best they can "compromise" on. Honestly, that’s only a joke because for it to be true would have required someone on staff keeping track of this sort of thing, and Charmed, much as I may like it, did not pay attention to things like continuity. However, that does still remain my preferred explanation for the sheer abundance of black-clad, fireball-throwing idiots. 😎 Well, I definitely agree with your assessment. I’d rather not bring the Source into it, though, unless this was the final season. As I’ve said elsewhere, when you have a character named “The Source of All Evil”, that is your final boss. Which is where some (not all) of the fandom agree Charmed should've only been a 4 season show. Which is already a long time. What do you do, when your show gets picked up? Postpone everything? That only gets stale and boring. And, why I got tired of Pretty Little Liars because it was just the same story, over and over, again with no resolve until the finales which is silly, but I digress. And now I’ve made it worse. Oops? 🤷🏻♂️ Hey, this is what discussion forums are about. I love seeing proper discussion activity instead of just polls. I love hearing opinions. It seemed they had no idea what they even wanted with warlocks. I'm sure that's because Kern kept pushing for more demons. But then again, It's interesting that Sheryl wrote the first episode that mentions the Source by name in 'Give Me a Sign' and mentions him somewhat in 'The Witch is Back' or I guess you could say it was the previous episode too by what Hannah said via the Truth Spell. Thanks for the assessment on when they blinked and when they didn't. I don't think Kern was "pushing for more demons". I just think Kern confused Warlocks and Demons. Afterall, he's credited for writing S2E22 "Be Careful What You Witch For" which has Dragon Warlock, who might as well be a demon. And, Sheryl is credited for writing S2E7 "They're Everywhere" which introduces the concept of "Warlock Breeds". So, it just seemed like ALL of the writers had no frickin' clue on where they were going/heading with Warlocks. And, you're welcome, about the list of who can Blink and who cannot. This one (also), to not be Spoil-Tagged and to be relevant to the topic. So sorry for confusing you. I should've been more clear Bad Witch = Warlock. Just anyone who goes bad is a warlock. Glad we cleared that up. Back to Spoil-Tagging! If you tried to quiz me on any of the demons in S5-S8, that apart from Zankou I couldn't tell you what made half of them unique. LOL Right. I think the only unique demon(s) I can think of, in S5-S8, are from S6, funny enough: - S6E9 "Little Monsters" Manticore - S6E11 "Witchstock" Slime Demon - S6E18 "Spin City" Spider Demon I feel like S6 gets criticized too harshly and doesn't get enough credit for its magical lore, but I digress. So he's been there since day 1. Thanks. I really need to pay more attention to the credits. Unless you count the Unaired Pilot and the period BEFORE the show was ordered to series. Since Something Wicca This Way Comes would've been the reworked pilot with Alyssa. But you're probably right he was already hired already. LOL guess I was hoping we had even a small window of time where he wasn't attached to Charmed in some capacity. Unfortunately. He wasn't around during the Unaired Pilot but definitely around during the re-shoot with Alyssa. He has his ups and downs, but we can discuss this in my (S1 - S2) Burge vs Kern thread. Just to keep this thread from having too many discussions not involving the topic, at hand LOL LOL that's a funny joke that I could see working. But I'd find it hard to believe a demon like Barbas was a graduate given how ancient he was. But, I disgress. I count him as a graduate. My other joke is this demon conversion academy is quite successful and that Magic School needs to get on it and start producing more good witches LOL When exactly did the Source get the "All Evil" name. I don't remember when they started that. I always thought he was just 'The Source"? Unnamed until S2E15 "Give Me a Sign" and then S4E1 "Charmed Again, Pt 1" coined him as "The Source of all Evil". Not Spoil-Tagging this part 'cause I feel it's somewhat relevant, to the topic. SANDRA: No, they really didn't. It's too bad. I tend to think you need to look at Charmed as stand-alone enjoyment series. The show it meant to be watched in any order without thinking too much about what came before or after. There wasn't meant to be a consistency week to week. That's pretty much why you have to judge it based off of the episode. We've already established ALL the writers had their own interpretation of what a "Warlock" is and so you have to judge it based off of the episode they're represented in. Constance M. Burge's Warlocks - Bad Witches that are now considered Warlocks (regardless of gender) that steals powers. Brad Kern's Warlocks - Warlocks might as well be demons and "work for the source". Sheryl J. Ander's Warlocks - There are different "breeds" of Warlocks which would explain BOTH Burge's AND Kern's Warlocks LOL And other Warlocks like "born into it", like the Rowe Coven. Back to Spoil-Tagging! SANDRA: Actually according to his interview in the Book of Three, He said Connie created the show and Spelling sold it as a presentation (The Unaired Pilot) and when that got picked up to series based on the presentation that's when they were looking for a showrunner to come in and help turn the pilot into a series. He interviewed for Charmed and not it based on being showrunner on other stuff. Aaeiyn is right though, he has been executive producer since S1E1 "Something Wicca This Way Comes" though. But you are right in some way Keeper, that he wasn't part of the series in the early development stages when it was just a pilot or pilot presentation. But I still consider him part of the whole thing, the pre-series pick-up is more of less just getting the pilot ready to sell for upfronts. But I doubt they had much else planned beyond the basic premise.
Yeah, Charmed would still be a "baby" under Kern's belt, as much as it is Burge's. Again, would love to discuss this in my other thread (S1 - S2) Burge vs Kern. To help absolve this thread from devolving too much into too much "off-topic" conversation 😁 SANDRA: That's a good question. I have no idea when the "All Evil" name first got mentioned. It could've even been in S4 but I'm not sure. Maybe Charmed Again Part 2? Close! S4E1 "Charmed Again, Pt 1" Piper said it, to Paige, when Paige asked "the source of what?" IK, I did read it all, though. Hopefully, I broke it down enough, so it's not so confusing LOL Thanks, Sandra. That's the reason I did it. So everyones comments are together without the confusion with all these quotes, and forgetting how said what. However to cut it down smaller as we go along, maybe If we all simply agree with what someone wrote, we can just add a smiley. When we “double-smiley”, we can delete that part of the conversation. That prevents this from growing too large. I wished proboards was like the WoW Forums, where you can just highlight a portion of the text you want, and a "Quote" button appears, and it only quotes what you highlighted. It's another reason it took me this long due to manually removing a lot of unnecessary text I'm not not interested in quoting 😔 I think we can take away the responses talking about being busy and the stuff that has nothing to do to the topic. LOL Just remove them. That's what I figured. You can always come back and reply to the rest later or jump in and just respond to what you feel like for now. I did my best 😅 |
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Post by greta on Jul 29, 2023 2:30:58 GMT -5
I had fun reading your replies Aaeiyn. I'm on my phone, so I can't respond with a long post yet. But I had to say I really liked the way you broke down each writers interpretation of warlocks. I now am so used to the other method now that Keeper started that I'll likely do it that way again. Lol Since it feels like a real conversation with everyone's names with adding your reply above the line. But we'll see how I go. I might cut down loads of comments to make it a bit shorter. We'll see. Another thing Aaeiyn. What's the WoW forum? Lol |
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Aaeiyn
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✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jul 29, 2023 2:36:56 GMT -5
Another thing Aaeiyn . What's the WoW forum? Lol I'm sorry, I used the acronym, but it's the World of Warcraft Forums. |
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Post by greta on Jul 29, 2023 2:54:46 GMT -5
Another thing Aaeiyn . What's the WoW forum? Lol I'm sorry, I used the acronym, but it's the World of Warcraft Forums. Got it! Thanks. Sounds like a better method. I would prefer multi quoting where it'll turn several posts into quotes. Rather than having to manually add in the quotes yourself and the members name. |
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Aaeiyn
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✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jul 29, 2023 20:53:28 GMT -5
In re-watching S1E14 "Secrets & Guys" recently, I find it funny how Phoebe accused Leo of being a Warlock but then when Prue explains to Max all the "evil" she's faced, she doesn't mention Warlocks but demons.
Felt like posting that, to add to the "are they really Warlocks are demons" conversation LOL
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Post by lunchking on Jul 30, 2023 2:59:23 GMT -5
SO MUCH To catch up on! LOL Going to start by replying to the most recent. In re-watching S1E14 "Secrets & Guys" recently, I find it funny how Phoebe accused Leo of being a Warlock but then when Prue explains to Max all the "evil" she's faced, she doesn't mention Warlocks but demons. Felt like posting that, to add to the "are they really Warlocks are demons" conversation LOL That's hilarious. Not even Sheryl, Brad and Connie can set themselves straight in the same episode. But seriously, it adds that are warlocks actually demons. It's interesting because in the first episode Jeremy really appears quite demonic and like the Rowe Brothers they have demonic forms and have a demonic voice. I do wonder if warlocks who pledge their alienage to the Source have a more demonic side, verses regular Warlocks who are more human. Unless the more innocents they kill the less human they become and the more demonic in nature they start to appear. |
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zachary
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Post by zachary on Aug 2, 2023 20:32:21 GMT -5
Thank-you Zachary for this post. I enjoyed reading all your insights and giving me more thoughts about why the show did a poor job with the lore. Thank you for taking the time to read it and respond! I also want to briefly thank @everyone for their responses! I love that this has been a fruitful discussion so far!
That being said and done, should've gone the Unaired Pilot route. Would've been more progressive that gender doesn't matter to one being a "Warlock". The only two alleged female Warlocks are Hannah and Jane. I guess, at some point between S2E3 "The Painted World" (Written by Constance M. Burge, BTW) and S2E6 "That Old Black Magic", we're back to Gender Roles of females being "evil witches" via Tuatha, Stillman Sisters, (S6E11 "Witchstock") Robin, etc. Though, (S4E9 "Muse to My Ears") Devlin's faction had unnamed female Warlocks, but if they were more on the frontline, probably be classified as "evil witches". I completely agree with this. I hadn't expanded too much on that bullet point I made, but yes, I love the clarification, and thank you for bringing it up! We've watched the unaired pilot together, and I've seen it a few times on my own, and I preferred the unaired pilot's version of the Warlocks' explanation; it just flowed better in the conversation. I wonder, tie-ing in what I said about femininity, do you (both Aaeiyn and everyone) think that part of the reason for the lack of female Warlocks is because Warlocks were known to be more male-based, and the show didn't want to call women Warlocks? I wonder if that aligns with Prue's "If they're girls, yes" response with Andy wondering if their children would be witches. I can't tell if its clever writing, so that the audience is tricked into thinking men can't be "witches" until we see Max, OR if it was initially planned to scrap the "Warlocks regardless of their gender" idea entirely, and to just have female witches and male warlocks, and evil witches, and warlocks-who-become-priests. |
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zachary
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Post by zachary on Aug 2, 2023 20:32:38 GMT -5
Now, that I don't have a baby, flailing around in my arms, I can type properly, at my computer, too and not on my phone LOL Anyway, I do NOT like the idea of "Warlock Breeds". As much as I love S2E7 "They're Everwhere", I do NOT classify the Collectors as Warlocks, despite the show calling them a "Warlock Breed". They seem more demonic than anything else, as they don't kill (though, their victims become living vegetables and not really die but whatever) to obtain witch powers. In fact, the only list of victims, on their list are regular 'ol humans that are non-magical. They behaved similarly to the Seekers in S3E16 "Death Takes a Halliwell" and yet, the Seekers are NOT Warlocks but Demons! Same with Dragon Warlock who wasn't looking to kill the Charmed Ones for their powers. He was mostly just wanting them dead to make a name for himself. 100% Agreed. I often forget The Collectors were warlocks; they, too, remind me too much of those vampire-cousin demons!😂 And that's also a GREAT point, I didn't even think of that! They showed no intention of being after witches. It looks like they were just after whoever could decipher the Akashik records. Now, I will say though since they are labeled as Warlocks, I want to add them to the list of Evil who had good plans-- at least The Collectors somewhat did; They were initially hunting Eric's father, and sucked the knowledge out of him, and then disguised themself as a Doctor, only to hunt Eric and patiently wait for him to try to continue his father's work! I really liked it, when I thought about it. Somehow, it didn't really git me that it was a decently strategized plan! [/quote] That being said, I don't like the idea of Warlocks "working for the Source", either. At least, Rex and Hannah were. Same with S4E9 "Muse to My Ears" Warlocks via Devlin and his faction. They're supposed to be humans disassociated from the Underworld (which is demonic territory) and just going "bad". When did the Source / the Underworld become at play, here? I guess Eames, too but whatever. I HATE that Warlocks were categorized as Demons by Season 4... Even when Paige asks who they are during the Muse episode, she asks "What's a Warlock, like a demon?" and the others say "Pretty much, yeah".. Like, I understand the context that they're evil, similarly to demons, but they're not, and they shouldn't have been treated as such. That's actually a huge reason why I didn't really grasp that Rex and Hannah were Warlocks; Despite how much I now love knowing that Warlocks played such a crucial role in Season 1, I still don't really like the idea that they're working for The Source, as opposed to at least the leader of a Warlock faction or something. Eames seemed to have a better way of being a Warlock and disassociating himself from the Underworld and the Source; He worked for himself and had a 20+ year goal of obtaining specific powers to kill Whitelighters and leave their witches defenseless so he could get more powers! Loved it. Speaking of Humans that "go bad", why are Warlocks immortal? And, in S2E7 "They're Everywhere" Warlocks (allegedly) don't bleed, but Jeremy definitely bled. IDK, even S1-S2 didn't know WTH they were doing with "Warlocks" until Kern's takeover, in S3 and just practically did away with the Warlock concept almost (not completely) entirely, where we began getting more human-looking demons compared to S1-S2. Yeah... I don't really care for the idea that they're immortal. It makes a great story, sometimes, like how Jane had been searching for the Charmed Ones for 70 years, that was kind of cool; Or how Nicholas was coming by yearly, appearing older until he could get their powers; and how Anton was immortal, and was trying to reunite with Past-Phoebe's soul. Even Eames' immortality was a nice device. Aside from that, it doesn't make sense why a witch who betrayed the Wiccan Reed would be granted immortality... Then again, the writer in me is head-cannoning that because a witch betrayed the sacred oath, they no longer are able to enjoy all luxuries of life, including the luxury of moving on to the afterlife-- so they're cursed with immortality to roam the Earth unless vanquished; and even if vanquished, they're in an Eternal Hell or The Demonic Wasteland or something. Also, with the human-looking Demons? I know that fun joke about the demon academy, and while it's a good storyline and such, I still hate the amount of effortless writing we get for Demons after S3. I know Kern said something along the lines of Demons having to fit into society overtime and thats why they became human-looking, but I still don't buy it. That's a lazy way of saying you prefer having demons with flashy fireballs and energyballs and all sorts of teleportation and quick action scenes... I don't mind a balance of action and such, but I don't think I'd sacrifice decent demon-writing for it. |
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zachary
Whitelighter
✨Follow me, my friends, to glory at..the..end ✨
Posts: 4,534
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Post by zachary on Aug 2, 2023 20:41:55 GMT -5
The concept of witches and warlocks was a very interesting concept that its clear as day Kern didn't care for them. He cared more for demons, elders, whitelighters and magical creatures. I don't think he cared enough about the mythology of warlocks or even expanding the mythology of witches. I agree. There used to be a demonologist hired to work with them, but I'm sure they were gone shortly after S2... They had to have been. If Warlocks were a much bigger part of the lore, perhaps he would've been. But I just don't think it ever would've happened under Kern. 100% Agreed. And I think having Cole as a half-warlock or even just a warlock struggling with trying to be good (I doubt they'd do halves since the sisters aren't half-witches/half-mortals), I think that could've worked out well. That being said, I actually do enjoy the concept that Cole being half-human and having a human form is what gave him an advantage to being around the sisters. That could've been a fun story-arc to see. Keeper, maybe you should write a story about that, considering how much you appear to be a fan of Melinda/Matthew and that episode. That's a great idea, Keeper Of Melinda's Locket |
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Post by Andrew on Aug 2, 2023 21:44:30 GMT -5
I think the only way Kern would have had warlocks be a bigger part (or really any part) of the show going forward was if there was something in pop culture featuring them for Charmed to ride the coattails of, much like with Harry Potter and the sudden revelation of the “No, this totally always existed, we swear!” Magic School (aka the educational institute with the most generic name in all of human history). Why not have had one of the students be a warlock? He or she could have been either someone trying to overcome their heritage, forcing the Charmed Ones to confront their own “evil is genetic” mindset… or someone acting as a mole.
But no, that would have required effort, and consistency, so never mind that. What kind of creature can we turn one or more of the girls into this week?
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Aaeiyn
Elder
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 5,554
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Post by Aaeiyn on Aug 2, 2023 21:49:58 GMT -5
I think the only way Kern would have had warlocks be a bigger part (or really any part) of the show going forward was if there was something in pop culture featuring them for Charmed to ride the coattails of Maybe, but I still don't think Kern understands the difference between a Warlock and a Demon LOL |
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Post by West on Aug 2, 2023 21:50:52 GMT -5
I think the only way Kern would have had warlocks be a bigger part (or really any part) of the show going forward was if there was something in pop culture featuring them for Charmed to ride the coattails of, much like with Harry Potter and the sudden revelation of the “No, this totally always existed, we swear!” Magic School (aka the educational institute with the most generic name in all of human history). Why not have had one of the students be a warlock? He or she could have been either someone trying to overcome their heritage, forcing the Charmed Ones to confront their own “evil is genetic” mindset… or someone acting as a mole. But no, that would have required effort, and consistency, so never mind that. What kind of creature can we turn one or more of the girls into this week? Kern was only writing the show to continue to get picked up and make money. He had no blood, sweat and tears into the show. Amyone who threatened him got fired or quit from the writers room if they protested. He banks on what was hip at the time and what he could cash on e.g Harry Potter, Pirates and other trends. It could've been great if they really developed a more consistent mythology but they didn't. It could've been fun if there was a warlock who disguised as a teacher or student at Magic school to take down the Charmed Ones from the inside. |
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Post by West on Aug 2, 2023 21:52:23 GMT -5
I think the only way Kern would have had warlocks be a bigger part (or really any part) of the show going forward was if there was something in pop culture featuring them for Charmed to ride the coattails of Maybe, but I still don't think Kern understands the difference between a Warlock and a Demon LOL I agree. The structure seemed very muddled. There was zero continuity or a demonic hierarchy that made sense. |
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Post by Sandra on Aug 15, 2023 16:40:39 GMT -5
I think the only way Kern would have had warlocks be a bigger part (or really any part) of the show going forward was if there was something in pop culture featuring them for Charmed to ride the coattails of, much like with Harry Potter and the sudden revelation of the “No, this totally always existed, we swear!” Magic School (aka the educational institute with the most generic name in all of human history). Why not have had one of the students be a warlock? He or she could have been either someone trying to overcome their heritage, forcing the Charmed Ones to confront their own “evil is genetic” mindset… or someone acting as a mole. But no, that would have required effort, and consistency, so never mind that. What kind of creature can we turn one or more of the girls into this week? And pop culture seems to associate male witches as Wizards. But there are rare instances male witches as just defined as Warlocks and not evil. I'll have to dig deep into deeper research. But googling I found that: I'm glad Charmed didn't associate witchcraft as the Devil's work. But they did dabble with it in When Bad Warlocks Go Good with religion. |
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