Did Charmed start sucking from Season 4 onward?

[rebooted]

When did Charmed start sucking?

[lunchking]

Each season has some highlights and episodes I do like. So I may take time to properly decide.

But every season in some way seems to be a reset where its somewhat different from what came before. That you can almost treat every season like it's a new show.

I'm inclined to say S5 or even S8 even though I really like episodes, ideas and concepts in S6-S8.

I'll have to come back to vote.

[Aaeiyn]

Old me would've said S5 sucks, but S6 & S7 are really good and then S8 is "meh".

New me is S5, same as you rebooted , from prior threads, unless you changed your mind which you're absolutely entitled to do.  With the lack of power balance and utilization of the older powers, it's a completely new show.

Now, I will say, I still enjoy some S6-S8 episodes merely because of the episodes themselves and not necessarily because of power balance.  S5-S8 is just NOT about our leading ladies, anymore.  They're present and there, but they're just not as prevalent, anymore.  So, I understand why them having children is a bad idea (though, a part of me still likes it).  I still enjoy the expansion of the show OUTSIDE of the sisters, but if this show is SUPPOSED to be about them, S5-S8 doesn't cut it.  Especially in S8, when Phoebe gets absolutely sidelined in favor of Billie.

I still don't think (and, this is still my opinion) S6 & S7 are terrible seasons, in the sense of underutilizing their powers but still have interesting episodes to watch.  So, "old me" is still fighting through the cracks in defense of S6 & S7, but "new me" is agreeing that S6 still didn't make the show better, but it tried, same with S7.  And then S8 continued to roll down the hill.

[zack]

There's good episodes in S6-S8. However I have to consider overall impact moving forward. I'm picking S5. Charmed reached it's peak in S3-S4.

S6-S8 have wasted potential. I'm disappointed with how S6 ended after the re-watch. Chris story had promise and amounted to nothing. The viewers didn't get to see what happened in his future.

Charmed is a guilty pleasure show. It is simply not meant to be watched with a cohesant arc building. I've come to that conclusion. It's why it has more rewatch ability in any order than following a story week to week. Maybe in some way that makes it a better show with more rewatch appeal because it isn't serialized. If Charmed was there's a chance I may watch it less if the serialized story telling is really bad, I can't rewatch individual episodes. I digress.

I voted S5. That still isn't to say S6-S7 are bad seasons. The OP asked when did it START to suck and that's S5.

[lunchking]

Apr 3, 2024 4:29:18 GMT -5 zack said:

There's good episodes in S6-S8. However I have to consider overall impact moving forward. I'm picking S5. Charmed reached it's peak in S3-S4.

S6-S8 have wasted potential. I'm disappointed with how S6 ended after the re-watch. Chris story had promise and amounted to nothing. The viewers didn't get to see what happened in his future.

Charmed is a guilty pleasure show. It is simply not meant to be watched with a cohesant arc building. I've come to that conclusion. It's why it has more rewatch ability in any order than following a story week to week. Maybe in some way that makes it a better show with more rewatch appeal because it isn't serialized. If Charmed was there's a chance I may watch it less if the serialized story telling is really bad, I can't rewatch individual episodes. I digress.

I voted S5. That still isn't to say S6-S7 are bad seasons. The OP asked when did it START to suck and that's S5.

You pretty much nailed all the reasons I lose interest with more modern shows. More reasons for me to lose interest because the story drags without a conclusion. Yes I know binging and streaming is meant to encourage you to watch the next episode, but I'm the oddball where it has the opposite reaction. I got burned by Pretty Little Liars and Lost with the ongoing storyline and arcs that take more than a season to tell. 

That's why Charmed's more appealing to re-watch and why my top 5 all time shows doesn't have anything that came out in the last decade on it. Even if I watch and enjoy them.

When the show starts to suck, S8 is basically the end with Charmed on life support being put out if its misery.  S6-S7 are still decent. S5 the show was hit by a car with S6-S7 being touch and go still surviving with promise. LOL

Yeah, like Aaeiyn, rebooted and yourself. For now voting S5.

[Aaeiyn]

S5 definitely has it's problems but after discussing about basic powers (and prior conversations about the BTS drama), I switched my vote to "somewhere in S2". That "somewhere" being as soon as it began.  Let me go over my data and NOT opinions:

S2 began the "sexy" outfits.  Or, at least, perpetuated it.

S2 is a constant struggle between Constance M. Burge and everyone else who didn't share her vision.

S2 MASSIVELY changes the personality of BOTH Prue AND Piper.  Piper is crankier than usual, and Prue is less bossy.  ONLY Phoebe remained consistent. (I get folks like less bossy Prue, but that's not my point)

SS2E2 "Morality Bites" gives such a high expectation of what their basic powers COULD advance like but (also) promises some sort of lethal power Phoebe could have but never fully fleshed it out.  S6 tried with Empathy but didn't quite hit the mark.  This is (also) the ONLY episode where Phoebe has more than one premonition which leads me to my next point.

S2 MASSIVELY cuts down on Phoebe premonitions.  S1, she'd be having premonitions left and right even repeated them.  S2 doesn't do this.  Number of S1 episodes where Phoebe either only has 1 premonition or no premonition at all:

* = indicates NO premonition

*S1E5 "Dream Sorcerer"
S1E6 "The Wedfung from Hell"
S1E7 "The Fourth Sister"
S1E10 "Wicca Envy"
S1E13 "From Fear to Eternity"
*S1E14 "Secrets & Guys"
*S1E17 "That 70s Episode"
S1E18 "When Bad Warlocks Go Good"
S1E19 "Out of Sight"
*S1E21 "Love Hurts" (but, Prue gets TWO premonitions during their power swap)

Number of S1 episodes where Phoebe is having more than one premonition:

* = Contains Non-Visual Premonitions

S1E1 "Something Wicca This Way Comes"
S1E2 "I've Got You Under My Skin"
S1E3 "Thank You for Not Morphing"
*S1E4 "Dead Man Dating"
S1E8 "The Truth is Out There and it Hurts"
S1E9 "The Witch is Back"
S1E11 "Feats of Clay"
S1E12 "The Wendigo"
S1E15 "Is There a Woogy, in the House?"
S1E16 "Which Prue is it, Anyway?"
S1E20 "The Power of Two"
S1E22 "Deja Vu, all Over, Again"

It's fairly evenly split but by the time we hit S2, she's only having 1 single premonition and that's it.

S2E9 "Ms. Hellfire" gives Prue a secondary power and lowers the amount of episodes where JUST their basic powers are used and further alongs ALL sisters getting secondary powers in S3.  But, by the end of S4, the show refuses to balance out those powers the way S2-S4 did.

Now, to my OPINION, I always wondered why it took me awhile to appreciate S2, and this is the reason why.  It's NOTHING like S1 nor what Burge initially envisioned and changes A LOT of things.  The only way for me to like it is ANY of them using ANY of their abilities, TOGETHER in the same episode.  This is where S2-S4 shines.  Then, S5 even dumps on that.

Just wanted to share this information.  Do with it what you will.

[rebooted]

In rewatching the series with my niece - you can tell something shifts from Marry Go Round on-ward.

The serial nature of the show reflects the same way Netflix pulls you in to watching the next episode with modern day series.

And thats how you feel with the later half of Season 4 - you are wanting resolution to the Source storyline - and I get that they did this because they thought the show was ending.

Even though I still like Phoebe by the end of the Season - the seeds are planted in the later half of Season 4 for whats to come in Season 5, 6, 7 and 8 - and we're seeing it in 4x22 as well.

I've rewatched the series with my niece until 4x21 and we are watching the last episode (in my mind), where Charmed ended on a good note - 4x22 even though I think its a weak episode.

Paige is a great character and is no way the reason for the shows decline. I don't like Paige quiting her job in Season 5.

It's not about Phoebe's physical powers being depleted. Its more about Phoebe actually being quite strong as a person in Season 4 in the wake of Prue's death and inviting Paige into the family and Phoebe being so powerful that Cole's love for Phoebe - the demon whos come the closest (a part from Shax) in breaking the Po3 becomes his Achilles heal, and she comes back from the sway of Evil. Phoebe was so likeable.

Piper is still a fan fave for me in Season 4 but she's irritating in Season 5.

I think Charmed had a good 4 season run and then its not the same series anymore. Its almost like 5 - 8 is the spin off. 

[cyma]

The moment Phoebe was rubbing her hands gleefully in season 5 and expressing absolute joy about signing the divorce papers and finally being free of Cole, was the beginng of the end for me.

I was like what the hell is going on?? Cole saved her from the witch hunter last season, saved her from the Source multiple times before that, only to get consumed by him. Even then, Cole's love prevented the Source from using Cole's body and burning Phoebe and her sisters to ashes right there and then. I mean Cole's flicker of love had better control compared to Phoebe carrying the Source possessed baby when it came to trying to kill Paige.

Yet here is Phoebe, scapegoating Cole all of a sudden for all her problems? And Cole seem to be acting the same way as well by trying to win her back and redeem himself for...what exactly? Being slowly consumed by the Source of all Evil after trying to protect Phoebe from the Source who used the Hollow to steal the Charmed Ones' powers?

Finally in season 6 opening episodes, I was watching these three strangers in revealing clothes, walking in slow motion in a forest on the corpse of the show I used to love.

[rebooted]

Apr 4, 2024 19:22:40 GMT -5 cyma said:

The moment Phoebe was rubbing her hands gleefully in season 5 and expressing absolute joy about signing the divorce papers and finally being free of Cole, was the beginng of the end for me.

I was like what the hell is going on?? Cole saved her from the witch hunter last season, saved her from the Source multiple times before that, only to get consumed by him. Even then, Cole's love prevented the Source from using Cole's body and burning Phoebe and her sisters to ashes right there and then. I mean Cole's flicker of love had better control compared to Phoebe carrying the Source possessed baby when it came to trying to kill Paige.

Yet here is Phoebe, scapegoating Cole all of a sudden for all her problems? And Cole seem to be acting the same way as well by trying to win her back and redeem himself for...what exactly? Being slowly consumed by the Source of all Evil after trying to protect Phoebe from the Source who used the Hollow to steal the Charmed Ones' powers?

Finally in season 6 opening episodes, I was watching these three strangers in revealing clothes, walking in slow motion in a forest on the corpse of the show I used to love.

Yeah my views are the same as yours cyma. Also when Phoebe is more concerned with her Billboards than her nieces new room just feels strange rewatching.

There are maybe 5 episodes form Season 5 - 8 that I would consider being non sucky.

I do like this video that wraps up the on set and off set stuff that lead to the shows decline. 

[zack]

Apr 3, 2024 18:09:05 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

S5 definitely has it's problems but after discussing about basic powers (and prior conversations about the BTS drama), I switched my vote to "somewhere in S2". That "somewhere" being as soon as it began.  Let me go over my data and NOT opinions:

S2 began the "sexy" outfits.  Or, at least, perpetuated it.

S2 is a constant struggle between Constance M. Burge and everyone else who didn't share her vision.

S2 MASSIVELY changes the personality of BOTH Prue AND Piper.  Piper is crankier than usual, and Prue is less bossy.  ONLY Phoebe remained consistent. (I get folks like less bossy Prue, but that's not my point)

SS2E2 "Morality Bites" gives such a high expectation of what their basic powers COULD advance like but (also) promises some sort of lethal power Phoebe could have but never fully fleshed it out.  S6 tried with Empathy but didn't quite hit the mark.  This is (also) the ONLY episode where Phoebe has more than one premonition which leads me to my next point.

S2 MASSIVELY cuts down on Phoebe premonitions.  S1, she'd be having premonitions left and right even repeated them.  S2 doesn't do this.  Number of S1 episodes where Phoebe either only has 1 premonition or no premonition at all:

* = indicates NO premonition

*S1E5 "Dream Sorcerer"
S1E6 "The Wedfung from Hell"
S1E7 "The Fourth Sister"
S1E10 "Wicca Envy"
S1E13 "From Fear to Eternity"
*S1E14 "Secrets & Guys"
*S1E17 "That 70s Episode"
S1E18 "When Bad Warlocks Go Good"
S1E19 "Out of Sight"
*S1E21 "Love Hurts" (but, Prue gets TWO premonitions during their power swap)

Number of S1 episodes where Phoebe is having more than one premonition:

* = Contains Non-Visual Premonitions

S1E1 "Something Wicca This Way Comes"
S1E2 "I've Got You Under My Skin"
S1E3 "Thank You for Not Morphing"
*S1E4 "Dead Man Dating"
S1E8 "The Truth is Out There and it Hurts"
S1E9 "The Witch is Back"
S1E11 "Feats of Clay"
S1E12 "The Wendigo"
S1E15 "Is There a Woogy, in the House?"
S1E16 "Which Prue is it, Anyway?"
S1E20 "The Power of Two"
S1E22 "Deja Vu, all Over, Again"

It's fairly evenly split but by the time we hit S2, she's only having 1 single premonition and that's it.

S2E9 "Ms. Hellfire" gives Prue a secondary power and lowers the amount of episodes where JUST their basic powers are used and further alongs ALL sisters getting secondary powers in S3.  But, by the end of S4, the show refuses to balance out those powers the way S2-S4 did.

Now, to my OPINION, I always wondered why it took me awhile to appreciate S2, and this is the reason why.  It's NOTHING like S1 nor what Burge initially envisioned and changes A LOT of things.  The only way for me to like it is ANY of them using ANY of their abilities, TOGETHER in the same episode.  This is where S2-S4 shines.  Then, S5 even dumps on that.

Just wanted to share this information.  Do with it what you will.

Yeah poor Connie. Her baby was stolen from her. But putting it into perspective S2 was like a transition season from Connie's vision to Kern's from S3 onwards.

[cyma]

Apr 4, 2024 21:51:24 GMT -5 rebooted said:

Apr 4, 2024 19:22:40 GMT -5 cyma said:

The moment Phoebe was rubbing her hands gleefully in season 5 and expressing absolute joy about signing the divorce papers and finally being free of Cole, was the beginng of the end for me.

I was like what the hell is going on?? Cole saved her from the witch hunter last season, saved her from the Source multiple times before that, only to get consumed by him. Even then, Cole's love prevented the Source from using Cole's body and burning Phoebe and her sisters to ashes right there and then. I mean Cole's flicker of love had better control compared to Phoebe carrying the Source possessed baby when it came to trying to kill Paige.

Yet here is Phoebe, scapegoating Cole all of a sudden for all her problems? And Cole seem to be acting the same way as well by trying to win her back and redeem himself for...what exactly? Being slowly consumed by the Source of all Evil after trying to protect Phoebe from the Source who used the Hollow to steal the Charmed Ones' powers?

Finally in season 6 opening episodes, I was watching these three strangers in revealing clothes, walking in slow motion in a forest on the corpse of the show I used to love.

Yeah my views are the same as yours cyma. Also when Phoebe is more concerned with her Billboards than her nieces new room just feels strange rewatching.

There are maybe 5 episodes form Season 5 - 8 that I would consider being non sucky.

I do like this video that wraps up the on set and off set stuff that lead to the shows decline. 

I'll definitely give it a watch if I hadn't already, cause it feels like a decade since I properly sat down to watch something Charmed related.

More stuff I need to get off my chest about season 5 since I've already started:

The only thing Phoebe should be angry and fearful about should be how Cole managed to finally return to land of the living and the powers he acquired because the last time he got Source's powers trying to save her, it consumed him and put her sister's lives in danger. Not to mention the baby(yes mention of the baby who Seer stole and died along with her seem to have vanished from the minds of Cole and all the sisters. Shouldn't Piper having a baby bring up feelings about the baby Phoebe lost?). This time he has the powers of so many vanquished demons inside him. This should've been what should be concerning, not Cole's character who he proved again and again was good but dark magic, spells and powers affected him more. With the life he was born into, human father raising him and suddenly demonic mother swooping in and killing Dad and enrolling Cole into demonic ways.

As for Cole, he expected to be sent to Hell. Him discovering(right before he was about to give up and let the Wasteland Monster kill him) that he could absorb vanquished demons powers should've been a sign for him that someone even above the Elders and Angel of Destiny was looking out for him and giving Cole another chance. He best not disappoint. That should've been his focus. Not Phoebe.

All his lawyer, strategic and critical thinking, all the knowledge of elite demonic world, going to waste for fawning and earning the love of the Great, Amazing and Fantabulous Mistress Phoebe who has all the answers.

I mean her billboards were practically shining from divine light of the Heavens above to show how much special she was.

As hard as the clowns--I mean writers and Brad tried(or didn't), after the traumatic events of season 4, the vibe I was getting off from Phoebe in season 5 was: "okay divorce papers signed, legs are now officially open for busines--Ugh! Cole! He's getting in the way of me getting custom--I mean finding love again after the horrible traumatic experience I've been through because of him." 😑

So generous shots of traumatized Phoebe's clevage--this Amazing Goddess who has all the answers. Lap dances in demonic strip clubs performed by demon impersonating Phoebe. Putting her in Cinderella outfit. Dressing her youngest sister, Paige like the evil clown Ronald Mcdonald, while her older sister became freaking loud, boorish and complaining(cause being pregnant makes you annoying as Phoebe showed us in the last season) only acting like a realistic and decent human being when Wyatt is involved.

And finally the absolutely useless and stupid, magical creature community, all cumulated to the show giving me it's loyal fan a traumatic experience. Titans should've made these idiots extinct since they relentlessly showed up to ruin episodes in later seasons.

[missjessica]

I voted S5 for now.