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Post by apollo223 on Aug 19, 2007 17:19:49 GMT -5
Ok i hated the freakin elders but idk what to think of them. they are supposed to be the protectors of good yet they messed with the charmed ones lives on a constant basis plus they are so arrogant. maybe this is just me but i am making this thread just to get others input on the elders like their roles in9 the world, their powers, and their origins...w.e u want to say about the elders this is it
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Post by pipercharmedphreak on Aug 19, 2007 18:16:33 GMT -5
i would have to agree with you! if they are so good, then why did they screw with the charmed ones so much? to piss them off? that would be stupid!
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 20, 2007 12:56:47 GMT -5
I actually liked the Elders before the Titans killed the original bunch and, like Leo, the whitelighters were upgraded to Elders long before their time and their power went to their head and they were more demonic than the demons! BEFORE that, the only problem with the Elders was they wouldn't let Piper do what she wanted to do. Oh, poor Piper!  The Elders' biggest mistake was letting Leo be the Charmed Ones' whitelighter when they knew that Leo and Piper had been lovers in a previous life. Had they not, they never would've had to worry about losing one of their greatest weapons against evil (Leo), never had to worry about a Twice-Blessed Child becoming a Twice-Cursed Child. I still think that the Seer from Season Four saw what was going to eventually happen and Leo becoming mortal was her final revenge on the forces of good! |
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Post by pipercharmedphreak on Aug 20, 2007 13:42:58 GMT -5
i did like the elders also before season 6. yeah sure the whole piper & leo vs. elder thing should have annoyed me because how much i like piper but it made good and interesting story plus i knoew piper would end up with leo anyway  |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 20, 2007 13:49:51 GMT -5
Well, had the Elders not let Leo and Piper get married until they *truly* proved that they could do their jobs despite being married, and until Piper actually accepted the fact that Leo's job as an angel was actually more important than being her husband, rather than just letting them get married because Leo and Piper (and the other Charmed Ones) had saved the Elders' a$$es, it would've been a lot better. Maybe not as dramatic, but definitely better! Piper *SOOOO* should've chosen Dan, who could've given her the "normal" homelife that she so wanted!
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Post by bakinator321 on Aug 21, 2007 17:14:34 GMT -5
rite well before i start rep;lying i want 2 say pipper should not have chosen dan he was a jealous arse and pipper and leo were destined...
i hated the elders they should never have been so mean 2 piper i mean they wanted leo fore themselves is that good NO is that selfish YES i really dispsed them...
P.S.
PIPPER RULES
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Post by pipercharmedphreak on Aug 25, 2007 14:15:23 GMT -5
leo and piper were meant to be together but yes the elders were pretty selfish about leo
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 26, 2007 13:07:21 GMT -5
rite well before i start rep;lying i want 2 say pipper should not have chosen dan he was a jealous arse and pipper and leo were destined... i hated the elders they should never have been so mean 2 piper i mean they wanted leo fore themselves is that good NO is that selfish YES i really dispsed them... P.S. PIPPER RULES They were mean to Piper because she wouldn't accept what her powers were truly for--taking care of innocents, not just protecting her own family. She truly should've had her own powers bound and the powers of her children just as soon as Leo became a mortal. And THEN she'd gripe whenever she could've used her powers for her own personal good (like turning reporters into rats or making Paige a wedding dress or Wyatt a costume). And, no, Leo & Piper weren't destined. If they were, they would've used their powers properly and Leo never would've become mortal and Piper never would've used him as her own errand boy and he never would've gotten stuck teaching magical kids who could use their powers on him. Leo & Piper got together for one simple reason--the Elders blew it by making Leo the Charmed Ones' whitelighter. Yes, it made the best love story (my own favorite of all of the stories on Charmed--up until they got married, then it became the worst, thanks to Piper not loving him for the angel he was and constantly trying to change him into something a lot less than he was--*her* dream idea of a man, which was a lot closer to Dan or Greg the fireman.) Leo lied to Phoebe about witches not knowing about their whitelighter because he wasn't supposed to let the Charmed Ones know who he was due to his and Piper's former lives together. When Leo went away the first time, he should've STAYED away with a new whitelighter taking his place, giving Piper something to gripe about the rest of the series, since we know that Piper isn't happy unless she's griping about something she can't have but the forces of good would've been more powerful with Leo still as a whitelighter and not a useless mortal. PIPER SUX! And Kern sux worse for what he did to my favorite couple, making them my LEAST-favorite couple! |
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Post by italiannna on Aug 27, 2007 0:28:20 GMT -5
First of all... Wow Es, longer rant... But I'll admit it was well put. I agree with a lot of your arguments.
I did like the whole Piper/Leo love story up until about Season 6 (The ONLY thing about Season 6 that I hated). There were even a few episodes in Season 5 that annoyed me. But anyway, after Leo left Piper to become an Elder their relationship just started to go downhill. I HATED, repeat HATED, the fact the Leo became an avatar in Season 7 and HATED even more that he became a mortal by the end of the season.
And yeah Es I totally agree with you when you mention that Leo was Piper's little puppy dog by Season 8.
However, I disagree when you say that the Elders should have never let Piper and Leo end up together. Yes their love was a doomed love in the past, but as "Pardon My Past" mentions (forgot who said it), a person can have several past lives. They have several lives as a way for their souls to grow and become enlightened. It also mentions that people who knew each other in a past life will eventually meet up again in each life because their souls recognize each other. So whether or not, The Elders made Leo The Charmed One's whitelighter, Piper and Leo would have ended up together.
I do not blame Piper's whiney-ness about a normal life OR Leo's inability to choose between his wife and his job as a factor in the deterioration of their relationship. I blame the writer's for not making the relationship grow beyond their wedding. Yeah you had the whole "I'm here for you Piper even through your sister's death" thing that Leo brought, but you could also see the beginning of Piper becoming over dominant in the relationship and Leo getting into trouble when really he did nothing wrong.
Now as for the Elders, I agree with you on some points Es. For the first few seasons, they did not bother me too much, except when they intervened WAY too much in the personal lives of the Halliwells. If they were so worried about what would happen if a witch and a whitelighter got together, they should have never intervened in the first place. I wonder, if they had just left them alone the whole time, would Piper and Leo's relationship been stronger?
After Prue's death, the Elders got less and less serious and more and more corrupt. This is obvious when Gideon wanted to kill Wyatt in Season 6. We learn that many of the Elders knew what Gideon was up to, yet they didn't even try to stop him. Even after Gideon attempted to kill Wyatt, they didn't lift a finger until it was too late.
Another obvious point was when Leo was given the task to either return to Piper or to return to the Elders. There was that one Elder, Odin, who cheated and basically forced Leo to choose the Elders over Piper. That is an obvious point of Elder corruption. More so is the fact that the other Elders once again did not to anything to punish Odin. I'm sorry but if someone cheats on destiny, it should be punishable. After all, the Elders were all ready to judge and punish all because two people (who were meant to be together as mentioned above) happened to fall in love and wanted to get married.
So all in all, yes there were some times where the Elders had a good point to make. One being when they took away Phoebe's powers. I felt that she needed to come off her high horse (Unfortunately, it was PHOE-ME... Coming off her high horse was too hard for her to do). But, in the long run, I felt that they were WAY too involved in the Halliwells' personal lives and that caused them to become blinded to the decisions they truly had to make.
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Elder
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Post by Elder on Aug 27, 2007 7:19:26 GMT -5
From what we do know about those beings, it would be easy to say that we hate them.
However, we don't know enough about them to make a fair judgement.
JUst because they messed with the Piper/Leo union doesn't make them bad.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 27, 2007 8:45:01 GMT -5
I agree with most of what you wrote, Rocker (in fact I blessed you for it), except for this:
Getting together and recognizing one another only goes when you're alive. LEO WAS DEAD!!! If he wasn't the sisters' whitelighter and instead was assigned somewhere else (say India), then, no, Leo and Piper would've never gotten together. They may have in a different lifetime, if Leo decided to give up his wings and reincarnated himself, then, yes, they would've. But otherwise, no. They only got together because the Elders (stupid as they are) put them together.
Also
Keep in mind that once you get passed Season 6, I don't count the Elders *as* Elders. Most of the true Elders, the good ones, were all killed by the Titans at the beginning of S6 with the exception of Gideon and we know what happened to him. The ones in S7 and S8 were obviously similar to Leo in S6--whitelighters who were promoted to Elder Whitelighter LONG before their time and whose powers went to their head. I don't blame the sisters for hating THAT bunch one single bit--they were more demonic than the demons--by that point the demons were pathetically funny; they were just parodies of themselves; just like the sisters!
I do think that Sandra the Elder was one of the original Elders, the reason why she's the one I use in most of my fanfics--she's the only one who acted like an Elder, even tho she was often overruled by the others. I was hoping that we'd eventually find out that Odin was actually a demon in disguise--he would've made the perfect Big Bad for the last season, SOOOO much more than The Triad or Billie & Christy!
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 27, 2007 8:56:55 GMT -5
From what we do know about those beings, it would be easy to say that we hate them. However, we don't know enough about them to make a fair judgement. JUst because they messed with the Piper/Leo union doesn't make them bad. No, actually we know exactly what they are. According to Leo, they're elder whitelighters. And whitelighters are mortals who have become angels, so the elder whitelighters are mortals who have become angels, who have become archangels. And believe me, those ones in S7 were anything but! That was Kern at his absolutely inconsistent best! |
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 27, 2007 9:49:05 GMT -5
This is Piper the way I love her best:
There's no way S3-S8 Piper (the Kern-influenced) could've/would've been able to say that, because she *didn't* love him later, the way this Piper loves him here, because later, she loved the Leo she wanted him to be, not the Leo he was. That's not love, but something different, something twisted, something Charmed tried to show as love, but wasn't.
Had I not known this Piper, I might not hate the S3-S8 Piper as much as I do.
PIPER SUX!
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Post by RP Muse on Aug 27, 2007 11:03:40 GMT -5
Well for once I completely agree with you! Piper and Leo had a great love and it was strongest in season 1 and 2. It wasn't so bad in 3 though. I agree Kern screwed up Charmed though.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 27, 2007 11:53:44 GMT -5
You're right--it wasn't that bad in S3--but already she was trying to change him into being more human than angel and she resented it when he wasn't with her rather than taking care of her charges. Already she couldn't say what she says above; she couldn't say:
By S3, the *only* sister who would agree with that was Prue. Paige would eventually, but only those two.
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The Elders' biggest mistake was letting Leo be the Charmed Ones' whitelighter when they knew that Leo and Piper had been lovers in a previous life. Had they not, they never would've had to worry about losing one of their greatest weapons against evil (Leo), never had to worry about a Twice-Blessed Child becoming a Twice-Cursed Child. I still think that the Seer from Season Four saw what was going to eventually happen and Leo becoming mortal was her final revenge on the forces of good!
