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Post by pipercharmedphreak on Aug 28, 2007 18:23:54 GMT -5
spiritkas- my words EXACTLY!!! but then again great minds think alike right?!
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Post by vandergraafk on Aug 29, 2007 14:58:52 GMT -5
As Spiritkas writes, I believe the case is closed. What I find so troubling is the unwillingness to consider the entire spectrum of viewpoints here. Instead, we seem to be placed on the horns of a dilemma: believer or infidel. That's what religions do.
So what is this spectrum? At the one end one might find the extremely literalist view advocated by esmeralda and ShantaD. That is, if it wasn't said or seen on TV, then it's not part of canon. At the other end, we can adopt esmeralda's language and call it fanon. I realize that many fans have devoted lots of time to put together Charmed Seasons 9 and 10 (all fan fictions) and some associated with this site have re-done Season 4 (Reality Reset).
In between these two extremes, there are lots of middling positions. Spiritkas points to several examples where experts - people associated with putting the final product on screen - have expressed their views in interviews, commentary or in writing. I regard these as expert witnesses. Below this or towards the direction of fanon, one might find analysts of Charmed. Whether such people have written commentaries - see the ones contained in Totally Charmed or the other compendia that have been published: Keith Topping's Triquetra, etc., they often times have many insights to offer us. I, for one, do not share Mr. Topping's views of many Charmed episodes. Too often, he is curtly dismissive and sees only the obvious. Another group might be the would be writers - me perhaps - who would like to try to resolve some of the paradoxes and contradictions in Charmedverse in order to move the project forward. You don't have to accept our analysis - and many DO NOT AGREE with me with respect to Chris's death and the purpose(s) of his mission. However, we cannot just be lumped in the crude category of "fanon" which I suppose covers everything from Cole is cool to I hate Prue. Opinion and analysis are not the same.
Yes, Piper's daughter ought to be a case closed. However, the underlying divide between witchhunters searching out infidels (violators of canon) and witches persists. I choose to be a witch. I could ignore this and simply protest in silence. Alas, I cannot do that. Paige wouldn't approve!
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spiritsas
Witch
Understand the message of Charmed
Posts: 1,149
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Post by spiritsas on Aug 29, 2007 16:17:41 GMT -5
spiritkas- my words EXACTLY!!! but then again great minds think alike right?! Thank you. Appreciate the affirmation. V- You're right. Let me just say that, in the spirit of friendly posting and to each their own opinion, Esmeralda (or anyone else) certainly has the right to believe (and state that belief). Plus, they don't need permission to do so. Let me also not contribute to any divide amongst us Charmed fans. So, E, if I came off as even mildly arrogant or insulting to your point of view, I offer my apologies. Doesn't change my opinion one bit, but it doesn't mean I think no one else has the right to believe otherwise. This is a friendly site and I always strive to keep it that way. |
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Post by whitelightertony on Aug 29, 2007 20:20:50 GMT -5
Isn't it possible that Kern possibly left some of the details open-ended on purpose, in case any follow-up production to the Charmedverse ever happens sometime down the road?
Which could be why Melinda and Paige's twin girls are never explicitly identified by name onscreen in the finale?
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Post by vandergraafk on Aug 30, 2007 12:58:19 GMT -5
It is certainly possible, but all of the comments I've read from Mr. Kern concerning Charmed suggest that Forever Charmed represented the closing of a book. Developing the character of Billie as he did really closed off the possibility of a spin-off around that character, although I still think it could be done. Yes, there still are lots of possibilities for a spin-off or a continuation centered around Piper. But, these aren't precluded or furthered by knowing who these characters are.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920 
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 30, 2007 15:12:16 GMT -5
spiritkas- my words EXACTLY!!! but then again great minds think alike right?! Thank you. Appreciate the affirmation. V- You're right. Let me just say that, in the spirit of friendly posting and to each their own opinion, Esmeralda (or anyone else) certainly has the right to believe (and state that belief). Plus, they don't need permission to do so. Let me also not contribute to any divide amongst us Charmed fans. So, E, if I came off as even mildly arrogant or insulting to your point of view, I offer my apologies. Doesn't change my opinion one bit, but it doesn't mean I think no one else has the right to believe otherwise. This is a friendly site and I always strive to keep it that way. Thank you, Spiritkas--for that you get blessed! One of the reasons I've come back to this board is it's one of the few boards where people are allowed to state their opinion, but that it's very simply that -- opinion. not fact. I know you'll never agree with me and I'll never agree with you (just like I'll never agree with ShantaD; I *do* think the girl is Piper's daughter, just not sure if her name is Melinda), but that's no big deal--the fun is to give different opinions so that others can come up with their own opinion, which might be something completely different than what anyone else says and might make more sense than what one originally thought. I've had that happen before and I hope it happens with others, too. Oh, the words canon and fanon are not mine--they come from many different fandoms, and as a fanfic writer/reader, I've heard them and used them for years, almost decades now. In the last couple days, I've asked a number of my friends who are members of those other fandoms. They all agree--on the screen is canon; anything else--including anything an actor/actress/writer/director/producer, etc. says or writes--is fanon, specifically stuff that is said so often that fans start forgetting what actually happened on the screen and what didn't. That might sound strict, but that's the definintion that has been universally used among many fandoms, including Charmed on other boards. V, since we can't agree on definitions, it's hard to have a friendly discussion. But now you know why I was using that particular definition--not because I do or don't believe Kern (I don't because he has never shown that he cares enought for the characters to be consistent), but because that's the accepted definition of the word "canon". |
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Post by vandergraafk on Aug 30, 2007 15:15:58 GMT -5
How typical of me to wish to upset other people's contrived definitions. I guess that reinforces my belief that the internet is more of a curse than a blessing at times. It has great potential that is too often drowned in a cesspool of people spewing their own bile! Oh well! The least we can do is wave!
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Post by whitelightertony on Aug 31, 2007 18:06:55 GMT -5
I'm sure that's what he was going for, in the event that the series never returns to the screen in any form.
But even Kern must have been savvy enough to know that it was possible to revive a spinoff or sequel to Charmed sometime down the road, which could be why he left some minor questions unanswered.
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mom2wyattnchris
Familiar
We're not normal...We're the Charmed Ones!
Posts: 522
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Post by mom2wyattnchris on Sept 5, 2007 1:17:35 GMT -5
It was Pipers granddaughter. I think that is more appropriate. What I wonder is who's daughter it is and who the mother is.
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Post by whitelightertony on Sept 5, 2007 1:32:13 GMT -5
It couldn't have been Piper's granddaughter, because Wyatt and Chris were around the same age as her.
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mom2wyattnchris
Familiar
We're not normal...We're the Charmed Ones!
Posts: 522
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Post by mom2wyattnchris on Sept 5, 2007 1:39:48 GMT -5
Oh my bad..I thought you were talking about the little girl that she was reading to. But I wonder who her parent(s) are supposed to be.
The little girl in the scene with Wyatt & Chris would have to be a daughter. I mean with all the passion that would have to go on after them being apart for so long...how could another child not come about?
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
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Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 5, 2007 10:24:22 GMT -5
Having sex does not necessarily mean a child follows. If that's the case, Phoebe would have a full dozen! It's fun to think of the little girl as Leo's "welcome back" present, but it's not necessarily so. Now remember, I *do* think the little girl is supposed to be their daughter, just like I think the granddaughter is hers, so she's Penny's daughter's daughter's daughter's daughter. I just don't think it *has* to be, because (stupidly on the writer's part) it was never actually said so--not on the show. (Stubborn, aren't I??  ) It would've made more sense to skip the stupid wall and use the extra time to have Piper mention Leo's welcome home present (everyone would've smiled from that one), to tell what her name is and what the granddaughter's name is (and whose kid she is). Then, especially if Piper called her Prue, when she closed the door, it would've made the perfect ending. |
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Post by charmedfreak_16 on Sept 5, 2007 19:24:04 GMT -5
Okay I was working on a website dedicated to charmed and when i was looking up information practically every website said that piper did eventually have a daughter.....whether it is her in the series finale i am not sure...
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Post by MarAcev on Sept 5, 2007 20:26:08 GMT -5
I know it's no guarantee, but judging by the little girl's age compared to Chris and Wyatt, I'd say that's probably a fair assumption.
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Post by pipercharmedphreak on Sept 8, 2007 16:17:51 GMT -5
the little girl in the scene with Wyatt & Chris would have to be a daughter. I mean with all the passion that would have to go on after them being apart for so long...how could another child not come about? first i loove your sig. and avatar second,i think that is a fair assumption! i mean a child wouldnt have to come about from that but i think it might be safe to assume so (the ages they look) |
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mom2wyattnchris
Familiar
We're not normal...We're the Charmed Ones!
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Post by mom2wyattnchris on Sept 8, 2007 20:14:54 GMT -5
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Post by ShantaD on Sept 9, 2007 5:46:24 GMT -5
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Post by pipercharmedphreak on Sept 9, 2007 12:55:07 GMT -5
the whole "Melinda thing" was NOT made up by fans!!!
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Post by Assassin Witch on Sept 9, 2007 15:56:50 GMT -5
Fans create the info on that site. Anyone can go in and put anything they like. Fans are making up this whole "Melinda" thing. Exactly. Just because it's from Wiki, does NOT mean it is 100% true. |
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Post by MarAcev on Sept 9, 2007 16:26:03 GMT -5
I seriously can't believe there's still debate on this one.
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[glow=red,2,300]~Piper Fan Club Member~ 
) It would've made more sense to skip the stupid wall and use the extra time to have Piper mention Leo's welcome home present (everyone would've smiled from that one), to tell what her name is and what the granddaughter's name is (and whose kid she is). Then, especially if Piper called her Prue, when she closed the door, it would've made the perfect ending.
