colehellsangel
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In Love and War; or in this case Love IS war.
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Post by colehellsangel on Jan 9, 2008 19:44:43 GMT -5
Since watching Dead Man Dating last night on VeohTV I am confused about something.
We know that Phoebe can not get a premonition without touching something an that she can not control them(As in when they come, how long they last etc..).
In fact in Womb raider when the seer gives her the false premonition of herself killing Paige, Leo ventures to her how she could have had premonition without touching anything.
So how it is that in Dead Man Dating she seems to have perfect control over them? First of all she makes herself re-see the man from the hotel being hit by the Pink Catilac(thats another thing too her visions are in black and white according to the audience so how does she know the car is pink?).
She later has a vision out of the blue(Going back to my Womb Raider example) of Tony Wong in the warehouse in Chinatown and then makes herself re-see it when asked if she could see where exactly he was.
How can she do all that if the rest of the series seems to support that she has no such control over her premonitions? Unless maybe it was an idea that was then scratched since this is very very early in the series since Piper is still learning to control her powers at this point.
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Post by ~.:Alysha:.~ on Jan 9, 2008 20:51:58 GMT -5
I agree that her premonitions are in black and white yet she seems to recall the exact colour however about seeing the premonition over and over again on demand, perhaps she wasn't having the same premonition again but just remembering what she had previously seen?? Just a thought...i havnt seen that episode in a while so im most likely worng but i thought id just throw that in there
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colehellsangel
Familiar
In Love and War; or in this case Love IS war.
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Post by colehellsangel on Jan 9, 2008 21:59:21 GMT -5
Thats an interesting idea but it sure looks like she is calling back the premonitions. They never know a character's thoughts in the series.
btw I love the quote in your banner.
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Hansemand
Elder
He's looking at you kid.
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Post by Hansemand on Jan 10, 2008 14:58:19 GMT -5
She suddenly has control over her premonitions in season 7:
Witchness Protection: Kira (the Seer) let Phoebe see the future in a premonition: Phoebe picking up her daughter at school, in full color.
Ordinary Witches: After loosing her power of premonition to the cab driver, she gets him to see her premonition of her picking up her future daughter, Chris & Wyatt at school, in full color.
Charmaggedon, premonition 1: Leo gives a snow globe to Phoebe asking her to see what really happened to Brody, she see him getting killed by one of the Avatars, in light color.
Charmaggedon, premonition 2: Phoebe comes into the attic, walks over the the Book Of Shadows, touches it to get a premonition and see every loved one they have lost over the years, in light color.
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colehellsangel
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In Love and War; or in this case Love IS war.
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Post by colehellsangel on Jan 10, 2008 16:37:20 GMT -5
She suddenly has control over her premonitions in season 7: Witchness Protection: Kira (the Seer) let Phoebe see the future in a premonition: Phoebe picking up her daughter at school, in full color. Ordinary Witches: After loosing her power of premonition to the cab driver, she gets him to see her premonition of her picking up her future daughter, Chris & Wyatt at school, in full color. Charmaggedon, premonition 1: Leo gives a snow globe to Phoebe asking her to see what really happened to Brody, she see him getting killed by one of the Avatars, in light color. Charmaggedon, premonition 2: Phoebe comes into the attic, walks over the the Book Of Shadows, touches it to get a premonition and see every loved one they have lost over the years, in light color. I don't call that control, in two of those examples she touched something to get the premonitions which is normal, and in the first example Kira gave her that premonition of her future daughter. That's Kira controlling that not Phoebe. What I mean in my example from Dead Man Dating is that she somehow calls fourth the premonitions and ones she has already seen at that, and without touching anything.
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Post by foxfire on Jan 10, 2008 18:29:48 GMT -5
If you watch "Angel" it might give you a better insight on premonitions seeing as Cordelia is the perfect example of how people should have visions.
They are brief and puzzling at first and she doesn't quite know what to make of things. However, as the series progressed Cordelia was actually able to recall things in her visions but she was also able to recall specific details. She could even go as far as sketching out symbols, statues and remembering addresses.
So given that... it's possible that Phoebe is the same way. While the audience doesn't see all the specifics (as the visions are very brief), it's completely possible for Phoebe to observe more and in fact recall details she would have otherwise missed. Just a theory.
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colehellsangel
Familiar
In Love and War; or in this case Love IS war.
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Post by colehellsangel on Jan 10, 2008 20:35:16 GMT -5
So you mean we may have been seeing her memories as opposed to the actual visions?
I have been wanting to see some more Angel. I have only seen a few episodes, my mom is a huge fan.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Jan 10, 2008 23:12:11 GMT -5
Exactly how?
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Post by mikechase15 on Jan 13, 2008 1:49:29 GMT -5
Maybe she was just recalling it...you know like when you try to remeber what something looks like you may close your eyes to try and picture it.
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colehellsangel
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Post by colehellsangel on Jan 13, 2008 2:12:18 GMT -5
Yeah someone else said that but then why is that not shown in the rest of the series with any of the other characters? It also does not explain how she had the vision of Tony Wong out of the blue almost like she summoned it.
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Post by whitelightertony on Jan 15, 2008 2:22:30 GMT -5
Is Phoebe in the warehouse when the vision comes to her?
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colehellsangel
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Post by colehellsangel on Jan 15, 2008 3:49:33 GMT -5
Is Phoebe in the warehouse when the vision comes to her? No they are at the manor watching a news flash that Tony Wong had been found dead and cremated. Do you think maybe it was the news report? Although that's still not touching anything and as I have given examples above, the rest of the series supports her not being able to get a vision just from her surroundings. That's more precognition which is kind of what Phoebe already has but more involved.
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Post by whitelightertony on Jan 15, 2008 21:17:59 GMT -5
Yeah, it seems as though "Something Wicca This Way Comes" and "Dead Man Dating" are the only episodes where premonitions just randomly come to Phoebe with no real explanation.
I suppose it could be the Elders giving her a magical "prod"...or maybe she's subconsciously reaching out to the future with her mind, which doesn't require the physical touch of an object connected to her vision?
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colehellsangel
Familiar
In Love and War; or in this case Love IS war.
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Post by colehellsangel on Jan 15, 2008 22:30:12 GMT -5
Yeah, it seems as though "Something Wicca This Way Comes" and "Dead Man Dating" are the only episodes where premonitions just randomly come to Phoebe with no real explanation. I suppose it could be the Elders giving her a magical "prod"...or maybe she's subconsciously reaching out to the future with her mind, which doesn't require the physical touch of an object connected to her vision? I like your second idea the best. That makes the most sense.
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Post by foxfire on Jan 17, 2008 16:19:44 GMT -5
Here's how Cordelia's visions work on Angel:
The Powers-That-Be (essentially more or less like the Elders just a helluva lot more mysterious) send Cordy visions of things that have happened in the past or future. They are extremely painful and give her migraines. Mind you, she becomes remarkably used to them and is able to recall several things from memory.
She often has Angel sketch out things from her visions or even does it herself.
The visions aren't a product of touching things like Phoebe and the pain is seriously downplayed for Phoebe as well. However, they are quite similar. I highly recommend watching Angel S1-3.
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spiritsas
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Post by spiritsas on Jan 17, 2008 22:23:59 GMT -5
We also need to remember that the sister's powers were supposedly growing, year after year. Sometimes they got new ones, sometimes it was just more control over the ones they had or they get more powerful. Piper's explosive powers were certainly a case in point. They could strike surgically or with a big blast, depending upon control and emotional state. Point is she got better with it, in theory, the more she used it. Similarly, Phoebe would get better at interpreting her visions and understanding, from a being there point of view, more about the vision than we saw on the screen. Like where it took place, even though it was just another street or piece of the woods in a park.
Second thing is that in the show, Phoebe learned how to force her premonitions, which is what got her in trouble at that trial they had to try and save Daryl's life. In essence, she tried to make a non-active power become active. I may not be saying that right, but I hope you all get the point.
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colehellsangel
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Post by colehellsangel on Jan 18, 2008 2:15:28 GMT -5
We also need to remember that the sister's powers were supposedly growing, year after year. Sometimes they got new ones, sometimes it was just more control over the ones they had or they get more powerful. Piper's explosive powers were certainly a case in point. They could strike surgically or with a big blast, depending upon control and emotional state. Point is she got better with it, in theory, the more she used it. Similarly, Phoebe would get better at interpreting her visions and understanding, from a being there point of view, more about the vision than we saw on the screen. Like where it took place, even though it was just another street or piece of the woods in a park. Second thing is that in the show, Phoebe learned how to force her premonitions, which is what got her in trouble at that trial they had to try and save Daryl's life. In essence, she tried to make a non-active power become active. I may not be saying that right, but I hope you all get the point. Yes but in what I am trying to explain her powers would have grown backwards. She went from having this mysterious control in Dead Man Dating where she seemed to have willingly summoned the Tony Wong vision to only being able to possibly trigger a vision by touching a connecting object in the rest of the series. How does that make sense?
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jan 19, 2008 0:33:25 GMT -5
I don't see how Phoebe's ability to force her premonitions got her into trouble. I do believe that her DESIRE to get herself impregnated got her into trouble.
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Post by whitelightertony on Jan 27, 2008 16:37:40 GMT -5
The Tribunal didn't punish Phoebe *because* she forced her premonitions...they punished her because her forced premonitions were for personal gain.
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Post by whitelightertony on Jan 27, 2008 16:39:14 GMT -5
Except in "Dead Man Dating," Phoebe didn't seem to be actively or intentionally attempting to receive a premonitions. It just came to her randomly.
In later episodes, where she had to work at getting premonitions, Phoebe was consciously trying to tap into her clairvoyance.
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