Phoebe's Premonitions

[colehellsangel]

whitelightertony said:

Yes but in what I am trying to explain her powers would have grown backwards. She went from having this mysterious control in Dead Man Dating where she seemed to have willingly summoned the Tony Wong vision to only being able to possibly trigger a vision by touching a connecting object in the rest of the series. How does that make sense?

Except in "Dead Man Dating," Phoebe didn't seem to be actively or intentionally attempting to receive a premonitions. It just came to her randomly.

In later episodes, where she had to work at getting premonitions, Phoebe was consciously trying to tap into her clairvoyance.

I never said anything about her forcing them, I said that they came to her randomly when the rest of the series seems to suggest that impossible.

[whitelightertony]

I never said anything about her forcing them, I said that they came to her randomly when the rest of the series seems to suggest that impossible.

I had been responding to ljones's post about the forced premonitions.

[colehellsangel]

Oh sorry. I misread.

[ljones]

The Tribunal didn't punish Phoebe *because* she forced her premonitions...they punished her because her forced premonitions were for personal gain.

The fact that they punished her for using her visions for personal gain and not for what she and Paige had done to Darryl and later, Rick Guttridge, makes the Tribunal irrevelant in my eyes.

And again, I cannot help but wonder why the show had allowed witches to be dictated by whitelighters (angels) and demons for so long. They stopped during the second half of S7, only to be used again in S8.

[whitelightertony]

The fact that they punished her for using her visions for personal gain and not for what she and Paige had done to Darryl and later, Rick Guttridge, makes the Tribunal irrevelant in my eyes.

I believe The Tribunal selectively chose to punish Phoebe in that manner to save face (when Barbas pointed out how selfish the Charmed Ones had been acting). They couldn't reach a consensus to punish all three Charmed Ones, so they made Phoebe the scapegoat.

And again, I cannot help but wonder why the show had allowed witches to be dictated by whitelighters (angels) and demons for so long. They stopped during the second half of S7, only to be used again in S8.

I think the Charmed Ones were operating on blind faith, and they failed to assert themselves - - so they acquiesced to the whims of whitelighters and Elders. It was only when they got fed up enough that they started to rebel.

[ljones]

colehellsangel said:

whitelightertony said:

Yeah, it seems as though "Something Wicca This Way Comes" and "Dead Man Dating" are the only episodes where premonitions just randomly come to Phoebe with no real explanation.

I suppose it could be the Elders giving her a magical "prod"...or maybe she's subconsciously reaching out to the future with her mind, which doesn't require the physical touch of an object connected to her vision?

I like your second idea the best. That makes the most sense.

I don't like the idea of the Elders controlling their powers. Come to think of it, I disliked how the Elders seemed to have control over the sisters' lives up until Season 7. They're supposed to be some form of angels . . . not deities.

I think the Charmed Ones were operating on blind faith, and they failed to assert themselves - - so they acquiesced to the whims of whitelighters and Elders. It was only when they got fed up enough that they started to rebel.

Unfortunately, that rebellion didn't last very long. I find it interesting that the Elders used Piper's inability to let go of Leo to assume control of the Halliwells again in S8.

[whitelightertony]

I find it interesting that the Elders used Piper's inability to let go of Leo to assume control of the Halliwells again in S8.

How did the Elders do this?

[ljones]

The Powers-That-Be (essentially more or less like the Elders just a helluva lot more mysterious) send Cordy visions of things that have happened in the past or future. They are extremely painful and give her migraines. Mind you, she becomes remarkably used to them and is able to recall several things from memory.

Considering that Cordelia wasn't a natural seer to begin with, I'm not surprised.