Demons in the Book of Shadows

[~.:Alysha:.~]

I was just wondering (and there is probably already an answer around here somewhere i just can't seem to find it) The Book of Shadows has all these demons in it and how to vanquish them written by previous generations is that right? Well if previous generations have already fought against them and vanquished them, then how come they keep on popping up if they have already been vanquished?? Thats one thing i never really understood..there is probably like the simplest answer out there but iv just missed it somewhere along this line!

[Hansemand]

Some demons are so powerful that they can return again, here the demon of fear, Barbas, a real good example. He returned several times during the 8 seasons of Charmed, although he got vanquished each time. I bet if Charmed had continued that we would not have seen the last of him the final time we saw him getting vanquished.

Other demons that the girls looked up stated that the particular one was a special type of demon and how this one could be vanquished, previous owners of the book properly has studied demons (more than the girls did) and found out what type of demons they were, so that future owners of the book would know how to vanquish the particular demon.

[Rebecca Malfoy]

It is possible that there was more then one of the demon, ie the Lazarus demon. The only way to keep it dead was to bury it. Or the demon had been around for ages, such as Cole's demon half.

[zzuzu]

There's a chance that someone brought them back. Remember Barbas or Cole? So why can't be there another demons.

[~.:Alysha:.~]

yeha but pretty much every demon they come across is in the Book of Shadows i dont think that the low level demons would have the power to come back again and agian after being vanquished??

[whitelightertony]

The Book of Shadows has all these demons in it and how to vanquish them written by previous generations is that right? Well if previous generations have already fought against them and vanquished them, then how come they keep on popping up if they have already been vanquished??

I think most of the demons in the Book of Shadows hadn't actually been vanquished...previous Warren ancestors simply speculated as to what types of potions or spells would be needed to vanquish them, when and if their more powerful descendants crossed paths with those demons.

[vandergraafk]

Moreover, your question begins from a false premise, i.e., that this particular Book of Shadows was solely the product of the Warren witches. Admittedly, that was the impression first given, especially when Patty advises Prue to add to the book. And, that squares with a wiccan concept of a Book of Shadows.

However, once a superstructure was added to Charmed, i.e., the Elders, whitelighters, the Tribunal, etc., the witches themselves no longer "controlled" this Book of Shadows. In Morality Bites, we know that the Elders put in a spell that they hope the sisters will cast in order to teach them a lesson. And, we know that the Elders know about the Suxen spell since Sandra specifically told the sisters about this spell, one they've never used and presumably have never seen since at least Phoebe and probably Paige have read the book cover to cover.

Thus, to answer the question: there is no need to assume that previous Warren witches had encountered any and all of the demons mentioned in the Book of Shadows. Hansemand and whitelightertony are both correct in the points they make. We know that some demons just keep coming back. A vanquish only temporarily removes them from the scene. We suspect that previous witches surmised that a power of three spell might be required. Perhaps their magic and potions had been insufficient.

As I've written elsewhere, there is no Book of Shadows. Though there may be a great Book of Shadows in the sky, any particular iteration of that Book of Shadows may differ. One wonders, then, why the demonic underworld would try so hard to steal the particular hard copy that existed at any given moment in time. After all, acquiring it should not have given them access to all its secrets. But, given time and sufficient care, any demon might be able to use the parts in its possession for that particular version of the book, a feat that Zankou clearly demonstrated. Still, his book did not possess the Suxen spell while the sisters, after they reacquire it, do find the spell.

[colehellsangel]

freebiephoebe said:

I was just wondering (and there is probably already an answer around here somewhere i just can't seem to find it) The Book of Shadows has all these demons in it and how to vanquish them written by previous generations is that right? Well if previous generations have already fought against them and vanquished them, then how come they keep on popping up if they have already been vanquished?? Thats one thing i never really understood..there is probably like the simplest answer out there but iv just missed it somewhere along this line!

Well remember how Shax kept coming back until they said the spell as the power of three with Paige. Perhaps all of the past generations could not make it permanent because they were not Charmed Ones and had a power of three. Thus they were not powerful enough. The Charmed Ones were destined to come into the world as Malinda Warren had seen them in her premonition, so perhaps all of the past generations were preparing these so called Charmed Ones for the battles only they could win.

[vandergraafk]

That's if you assume that Melinda Warren had such a premonition. All Halliwell's Eve stood that notion on its head by placing the Charmed Ones back in time. Thus, Charlotte already knows that there would emerge three powerful sister witches, whom she erroneously believes will be the most powerful witches of all times (because that's what she thought she was summoning). Why wouldn't she let her daughter know and place this along the Warren family line?

Still, there can be no doubt that the Warren witches added their knowledge and experiences to the Book. Thus, any Warren witch may well have encountered Shax at one time. The only difficulty occurs when attempting to explain how they might know about the power of three, if the power of three had never even existed. The only logical way to explain this is to consider that Charlotte had explained the presence of the Charmed Ones as the power of three. Thus, these early witches suspected that if they could not vanquish a demon with their (limited) knowledge, then perhaps it truly did require the power of three.

But, remember that Prue suggested in All Hell Breaks Loose that maybe previous Warren witches had been mistaken about whether a particular vanquish required a power of three spell. Of course, she was wrong in All Hell Breaks Loose, but her point is not mistaken in general.

[whitelightertony]

Still, his book did not possess the Suxen spell while the sisters, after they reacquire it, do find the spell.

How do we know the Suxen spell wasn't in the Book when Zankou possessed it? Maybe he just didn't realize what a "Suxen" was, and moved on?

[ljones]

Or the demon had been around for ages, such as Cole's demon half.

How is that possible, since Cole's demon half has been around as long as his human half . . . namely 1885? His demon half and his human are one individual . . . despite Leo's theory that Belthazor was nothing more than some entity that had possessed Cole.

Well remember how Shax kept coming back until they said the spell as the power of three with Paige.

Shax kept coming back because the only way to vanquish him was through the Power of Three. The sisters never used the Power of Three in "All Hell Breaks Loose" to kill him.

[vandergraafk]

Of course, we don't know that. What I'm arguing is that Phoebe certainly has read the book from cover to cover. Piper probably has too (especially when she was furious). I imagine Prue and Paige did too. None of them showed the least bit of knowledge about the spell when Sandra mentioned it. It was put in after they got back the book. Why put it in before?

Does this make sense? It should. We know from Morality Bites that the spell to the future was not there previously. And, we know from Bride and Gloom that the book featured different spells when the sisters were turned (briefly) evil.

There is no such thing as a steady-state Book of Shadows. It is constantly changing. Thus, Phoebe read one version cover to cover. Piper probably another. The Book of Shadows that Paige grew familiar with was probably different than the one Prue knew. We also know from Forever Charmed that Grams was surprised at how much the book had grown. Maybe she put in additional spells; we know she put in some of them. Others perhaps came from the Elders.

[hisangel523]

if i remember right many of the evil they went up against they wrote their own spells based on the info from the book yeah there were some spells already done but this is a make believe show and the writers dont always think about every little detail they tend to forget about those of us who think outside the box

[pubesy]

the book is an extension of the girls. it always has been. as the girls grew in knowledge so did the book. the book was much smaller in season 1 than season 8. then the girls fought each other the triquatras separated and their power was lost. when the girls became evil the book became similar to the grimior.

for the majority, the book only had info about each of the demons not a spell, and most of the time not a potion either. just basic info about the demon so the girls could identify it. the girls created the spell and the potion themselves.

maybe the warren line of witches have seen the demons over the generation but never had to go up against them, or had a need to vanquish them. elders probably added to the book too. maybe the white lighters assigned to previous ancestors added to the book too.

maybe the writers never thought this deep into the book!

[whitelightertony]

Of course, we don't know that. What I'm arguing is that Phoebe certainly has read the book from cover to cover. Piper probably has too (especially when she was furious). I imagine Prue and Paige did too. None of them showed the least bit of knowledge about the spell when Sandra mentioned it. It was put in after they got back the book. Why put it in before?

Does this make sense? It should. We know from Morality Bites that the spell to the future was not there previously. And, we know from Bride and Gloom that the book featured different spells when the sisters were turned (briefly) evil.

There is no such thing as a steady-state Book of Shadows. It is constantly changing. Thus, Phoebe read one version cover to cover. Piper probably another. The Book of Shadows that Paige grew familiar with was probably different than the one Prue knew. We also know from Forever Charmed that Grams was surprised at how much the book had grown. Maybe she put in additional spells; we know she put in some of them. Others perhaps came from the Elders.

Yes, that makes sense. I'm just saying it's possible that Phoebe, Piper, and Paige may have skimmed over the Suxen spell at one point in time, but failed to commit it to memory because they couldn't figure out what the heck a "Suxen" was. That's why it may not have popped out in their memories when Sandra mentioned it.

However, I am intrigued by your theory about an ethereal Book of Shadows that the Elders can add to at will. At what point in time would you venture that the Elders actually inserted the Suxen spell into the Book? Would it have been immediately after the girls retrieved the Book from Zankou's clutches?

[ArchAngel]

freebiephoebe said:

I was just wondering (and there is probably already an answer around here somewhere i just can't seem to find it) The Book of Shadows has all these demons in it and how to vanquish them written by previous generations is that right? Well if previous generations have already fought against them and vanquished them, then how come they keep on popping up if they have already been vanquished?? Thats one thing i never really understood..there is probably like the simplest answer out there but iv just missed it somewhere along this line!

Yes and no.

While it is true previous generations wrote in the book, There are examples of how Grams wrote a spell after the girls went back in time then the Spell was available in the Present.

The Elders put in the Time Travel Spell that sent them into their Selfish future (With Leo opening the book to the Page for them) and the SuxxuN Spell, and Patty's ghost wrote a message to Prue in the book on a previously blank page.

Likewise, Phoebe searched for the Information on a Demon multiple times with the "extra Page" coming in after several Passes through the multiple passes through the book if not appearing on a preciously blank Page because of the Elders, Patty, Grams, and Whomever else helping the Girls find the Answer through the book.

I believe even they notice how pages "weren't there before" but "Are there now" but just said Thank you rather then questioning how and started to look through the book more regularly as part of the routine in hopes "somebody" will stick what they are looking for in there. (As oppose to going to the Library or on the Internet or to a Craft shop like how Phoebe used to)

[SidneyAce]

This was explained in season 8. Evil doesn't die at least not for long and that's why the demons can come back after a while. So the deamons that the previous genrations have vanquished can be returned again because Good & Evil will always exist no matter what. That's what keeps the world in balance.