colehellsangel
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In Love and War; or in this case Love IS war.
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Post by colehellsangel on Feb 5, 2008 18:28:35 GMT -5
I was watching Pardon My Past last night and something occurred to me. Past Leo was supposedly Past Piper's former lover because Anton glamors into him to distract Past Piper.
Well Past Phoebe's death(which is the area in her life we are exploring) was February 1924 so the same Leo that is in love with Present Piper is a six month developed fetus because according to his photo in the hall of fame in Saving Private Leo he was born in May 1924(And I think Exit Strategy gives him the same birth year as well so its a consistent fact).
Therefore it seems impossible to me for him to have a past life in 1924 to be a former lover of Past Piper when his soul is already in use during the same time period. And obviously despite that we never saw real past Leo we know he was alive at that time otherwise it would not work for Anton to glamor into him as Past Piper's dead lover can't just show up alive.
Unless Past Leo was a whitelighter too at that time but we are not told that. Its the only way it makes sense though.
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Post by vandergraafk on Feb 5, 2008 18:37:13 GMT -5
It's another continuity problem. Remember: we learn about Leo's age in Saving Private Leo (a fourth season episode). Pardon My Past was in Season 2. There are other problems involving this timeline. Whitelightertony has imagined an entire timeline for the Warren witches since Charlotte. If you can't find the thread here (who can? this is absolute anarchy at the moment!), visit my site where you will easily locate it. charmedverse.proboards74.comReally what you are asking is how two souls can occupy the same time? They can't. Thus, Leo as jilted lover and Leo as six-month baby can't really co-exist. Don't even get me started on Witchstock. That show is an absolute disaster with respect to the timeline. Apparently, the script was okay. But, Patty was supposed to be the hippie, not her mother! I would strongly advise against making excuses for the writers. They blew this one. Leo did not become a whitelighter until after Guadalcanal during World War II. He was not a whitelighter prior to this time in any past life! The Elders allowed him to learn of his past lives, according to the story in Pardon My Past, because he had become a whitelighter. The only problem with that logic is that Charmed gave us no other reason for assuming that mortals had past lives. Magical ones, yes; but mere mortals no. Maybe Shirley MacLaine helped with this silly plot point. |
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colehellsangel
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In Love and War; or in this case Love IS war.
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Post by colehellsangel on Feb 5, 2008 18:49:08 GMT -5
I am not making excuses for the writer's I was exploring the possibility that Past Leo was also a whitelighter but made a point to mention that its not said to imply that I am not assuming and thus the reason for even making this thread. If I had made up a satisfying answer for myself than I would not need to make this thread.
And no I am not asking how a soul can occupy two lives in one time period, I am asking how on earth there could have been a Past Leo to have been Past Piper's lover.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Feb 5, 2008 20:02:14 GMT -5
Actually, I think that the real Leo was already alive in 1924 as a toddler. In Season 1's "Love Hurts", Leo revealed to Piper that he had been in medical school - not simply a four-year university - when he joined the Army in 1942. He even confirmed in early Season 3 that he was a medical student (and not pre-med) before he joined the Army. This only tells me that he was older than 18 years old when he died. I think that Leo was actually born several years before 1924 . . . probably somewhere between 1917-1920. By insisting that Leo was born in 1924, the writers only contradicted themselves from what Leo had revealed about himself in Seasons 1 and 3.
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colehellsangel
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In Love and War; or in this case Love IS war.
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Post by colehellsangel on Feb 6, 2008 0:20:42 GMT -5
Actually, I think that the real Leo was already alive in 1924 as a toddler. In Season 1's "Love Hurts", Leo revealed to Piper that he had been in medical school - not simply a four-year university - when he joined the Army in 1942. He even confirmed in early Season 3 that he was a medical student (and not pre-med) before he joined the Army. This only tells me that he was older than 18 years old when he died. I think that Leo was actually born several years before 1924 . . . probably somewhere between 1917-1920. By insisting that Leo was born in 1924, the writers only contradicted themselves from what Leo had revealed about himself in Seasons 1 and 3. That works too, you could be right. Either way there is still no way there could have been a Past Leo formerly in love with Past Piper in '24. Big Oppsie there writers.  |
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
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Post by pubesy on Feb 6, 2008 6:42:24 GMT -5
vandergraafk,
how do you know that timeline is right, charmed never goes into too much detail, like that.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Feb 6, 2008 12:37:22 GMT -5
If you're talking about magical beings learning about their past lives . . . that would be Leo.
The Halliwells are mortals, even if they are magic practitioners.
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Post by whitelightertony on Feb 8, 2008 4:13:12 GMT -5
Why not? Maybe Anton had killed Past Leo offscreen, and assumed Past Leo's likeness (via glamour) as a way of deceiving Past Piper?
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
Posts: 1,171
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Post by pubesy on Feb 8, 2008 8:24:23 GMT -5
wow, i like your thinking whitelightertony,
that is really thinking outside the square!
i think i shall bless you for that!
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colehellsangel
Familiar
In Love and War; or in this case Love IS war.
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Post by colehellsangel on Feb 8, 2008 15:43:55 GMT -5
Why not? Maybe Anton had killed Past Leo offscreen, and assumed Past Leo's likeness (via glamour) as a way of deceiving Past Piper? That is a good thought but why would Anton want to kill past Leo just to glamor him at least as long as he was not hanging around the area. And even if you are right, it would still depend on when the murder happened for it to work with present Leo being a fetus/toddler(which ever is closer to what he would be at that time) in the same time period. He could have killed him but it would have to be a little whole before that day and I still don't see what the motive would be since he is her former lover so he has no role in her life anymore. |
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Post by whitelightertony on Feb 8, 2008 19:05:14 GMT -5
It could have been part of a long-term plot hatched by both Anton and Past Phoebe to destroy her two cousins by manipulating events in their lives.
Let's suppose that Leo's actual year of birth (picking up as soon as Past Leo was murdered by Anton) was 1920 (rather than 1924)...that would have meant he'd been dead for 4 years at the time of the events from "Pardon My Past." Anton (glamoured as Past Leo) could have easily cooked up an excuse to be away from Past Piper during all of that time (1920-1924), with only occasional visits back to San Francisco where he was glamoured as Past Leo to deceive Past Prue and Past Piper. The cousins would have been none the wiser.
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colehellsangel
Familiar
In Love and War; or in this case Love IS war.
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Post by colehellsangel on Feb 8, 2008 22:16:27 GMT -5
True but when we see him go after Past Piper as Leo she knows right away that "Leo" is acting unusual. Although Anton did lay it on thick, perhaps he purposely blew his cover as part of the plan since he glamored out very quickly when she told him that he was acting weird.
Though despite that Charmed has its many inconsistencies it seems to be said more than once that Leo was born in '24.
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Post by The Original P3 on Feb 8, 2008 23:57:08 GMT -5
What is this big controversey about?
Past Leo dies sometime in 1923..he's conceived for his new life and is born in May 1924.
In Feb '24 during Pardon My Past..Past Leo was already dead but Past Piper didn't know that. Obviously she had been married to Dan for a bit and even if she had't..she still would have been dating him for some time. Hopefully more than 6 months before marrying so the fact that Past Leo and Past Piper were lovers means nothing when looking at the time frame in regards to present/future Leo.
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colehellsangel
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Post by colehellsangel on Feb 9, 2008 0:59:26 GMT -5
What is this big controversey about? Past Leo dies sometime in 1923..he's conceived for his new life and is born in May 1924. In Feb '24 during Pardon My Past..Past Leo was already dead but Past Piper didn't know that. Obviously she had been married to Dan for a bit and even if she had't..she still would have been dating him for some time. Hopefully more than 6 months before marrying so the fact that Past Leo and Past Piper were lovers means nothing when looking at the time frame in regards to present/future Leo. And where did you get the information that Past Leo dies in '23? This is not an attack honestly, but I could swear nothing was said about him except that he was Past Piper's former lover. |
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Feb 9, 2008 2:05:17 GMT -5
So, if Leo was born in 1924, he died at the age of 18 in late 1942. Which means that Piper had married someone who had spent over 60 years in arrested development at the age of 18.
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Post by whitelightertony on Feb 9, 2008 15:35:13 GMT -5
Ljones, what do you think would have been the minimum age that Leo could believably have been, when he was killed at Guadalcanal?
23? 25? 27?
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colehellsangel
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Post by colehellsangel on Feb 9, 2008 21:53:57 GMT -5
Ljones, what do you think would have been the minimum age that Leo could believably have been, when he was killed at Guadalcanal? 23? 25? 27? Yeah back then it was very common for young men to enlist right out of high school, and not always by choice mind you. Leo even says in Saving Private Leo that and the Lang Brothers had enlisted right out of high school. |
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Feb 10, 2008 3:05:46 GMT -5
What exactly are you hinting with this comment? Are you trying to be amusing or what?  I never said that it was improbable that Leo would join the Army at age 18. I never made such a statement. Why would you assume that I believe it was impossible for Leo or anyone else to join the army at 17 or 18? Here is what I believe. Leo was in MEDICAL SCHOOL when he joined the Army in 1942. He was not some high school graduate or a freshman college student. He verified this in two episodes - in late Season 1 and early Season 3. The show had never hinted that he was some kind of child prodigy or a 40s version of Doogie Howser. Another thing is that Leo never looked like an 18 year-old . . . even in Season 1. My personal theory? The writers had simply SCREWED UP in regard to Leo's age in Season 2 and beyond. Sorry, but I find it extremely hard to believe that Leo was born in 1924. It strikes me as so unbelieveable. |
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colehellsangel
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Post by colehellsangel on Feb 10, 2008 15:31:43 GMT -5
What exactly are you hinting with this comment? Are you trying to be amusing or what? I never said that it was improbable that Leo would join the Army at age 18. I never made such a statement. Why would you assume that I believe it was impossible for Leo or anyone else to join the army at 17 or 18? Here is what I believe. Leo was in MEDICAL SCHOOL when he joined the Army in 1942. He was not some high school graduate or a freshman college student. He verified this in two episodes - in late Season 1 and early Season 3. The show had never hinted that he was some kind of child prodigy or a 40s version of Doogie Howser. Another thing is that Leo never looked like an 18 year-old . . . even in Season 1. My personal theory? The writers had simply SCREWED UP in regard to Leo's age in Season 2 and beyond. Sorry, but I find it extremely hard to believe that Leo was born in 1924. It strikes me as so unbelieveable. I did not accuse you of making any kind of comment so in turn please don't accuse me of doing the same. You stated that Leo must have been 18 when he died but did not say anything else like you were implying that its not logical for him to have died at eighteen. So I was only letting you know that it does make sense. Now as for the Medical School thing thats still a young man mid 20's at most, s not much difference. I guess it could make sense for them to have screwed up his birth year but twice? Because it was said in both Exit Strategy and Saving Private Leo. |
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Post by whitelightertony on Feb 10, 2008 18:05:45 GMT -5
No, I wanted to know what age (or age range) you thought Leo would actually be when he was killed, given how Leo was in medical school at the time of his death?
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