Powers

[Elder]

Are powers given or are they brought on by events?

Piper's second power (the combustion one) seems to be given to her by the upper beings but as I watched the season 6 opener, I got the feeling that Phoebe's empathy was not really given but merely brought on by the events Phoebe was going through at the time.

It made me wonder if powers are different when they are first utilized and if so, how can we determine which should be given and which should be brought on by events?

I hope that made sense.

[Patrick]

Actually, powers are in a witch's blood which is heritable so powers are actually BORN within the person.

Depending on what they were born with, decides how they grow. Piper's power grew according to her previous one, Phoebe's also.

I think the Elders just jump-started the process or unlocked them. Destiny and all, making sure they were ready to receive them at the right time.

[Esmeralda]

At which point do you think they were jump-started and why?

I agree that *witch's* powers are inheritable, but I wonder if that truly fits the Warrens/Halliwells. If the powers are inheritable, then they should've been the same powers throughout, but each witch had a different power and their children's powers weren't the same as the parents'--Grams had TK, but her daughter Patty had freezing and *her* daughter Phoebe had premonitions. If it was truly inheritable, all three would have the same power, just like all three sisters would've had the same power. And those powers that the 20's cousins had looked nothing like Melinda Warren's. So, yes, being a witch is inheritable, but powers, no, that does not appear to be.

It appears to me that the powers are powers that are *given*, not inherited. Hmmm...wonder which Elder Freebie did WHAT to in order to be able to be given telepathy...

[Fourever Charmed]

Mar 13, 2009 12:50:47 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

If the powers are inheritable, then they should've been the same powers throughout, but each witch had a different power and their children's powers weren't the same as the parents'--Grams had TK, but her daughter Patty had freezing and *her* daughter Phoebe had premonitions. If it was truly inheritable, all three would have the same power, just like all three sisters would've had the same power. And those powers that the 20's cousins had looked nothing like Melinda Warren's. So, yes, being a witch is inheritable, but powers, no, that does not appear to be.

If a brunette can have a blonde child, then why does it seem so wrong for a witch with telekinesis to have a child with temporal stasis?

Melinda Warren had TK, TS, and premonitions. That means any of her decendants have the potential to develop one or more of those powers as well. And as far as the 20's cousins, who's to say that some of Melinda's decendants didn't marry other witches and thus pass on their genes and their power lineage resulting in P. Russell and P. Bowen having powers such as pyrokinesis and cryokinesis?

Just because each witch didn't pass on her exact powers to her offspring means nothing. Children don't get exactly the same traits as their parents. Sometimes traits skip a generation (or two or three or four). Sometimes kids can get traits that are mixed from their parents' genes (like Paige getting TKO), sometimes they look strikingly like their parents, and sometimes they look nothing like their parents. It really just all depends and I think that powers are exactly the same way.

[Esmeralda]

Yes, but then how do they end up with versions of those powers? Melinda was a *very* powerful witch; certainly her powers should have changed to be what they could become. They did not. She certainly would've blown up Matthew if she had "molecular combustion"--she didn't; she could only freeze. Even the fact that Matthew only knew about those three original powers tells you that Melinda's never changed and she never received more.

If what you say is correct, the only powers that Melinda Warren's descendants would have (unless they married another witch, and to our knowledge, none of them did), they would've only had the ability to move things with their minds, freeze time, or know the future, the only powers Melinda had, Prue would not have developed astral projection; Piper would not have developed explosions and Phoebe most DEFINITELY would not have developed levitation or telepathy. The fact that their powers changed as they themselves changed shows that they weren't inherited, but earned.

Also, there is no way you can use inheritance to explain the 20's cousins' powers--they have nothing to do with moving things with your mind, freezing and seeing the future.

To me, it sounds a lot more like it depends upon what you did with your previous life as to which powers you are given than chance, as DNA would be--it's based on your soul's growth; not who your ancestors are.

Now I know you do it differently in C:RR--that's fine; it's your own alternate universe with your own rules. But looking at the evidence from Charmed, no, they are definitely not inherited or even given (Yes, I've convinced myself that I was wrong earlier), but earned--they were the first set of three sisters, descended from Melinda Warren who had earned the right to have her three powers and hence, were able to access The Power of Three and become Charmed. I would love to know what they did in their previous lives before those 20's cousin that turning evil (Phoebe) and murder (Prue and Piper) still allowed them to have those powers.

[Fourever Charmed]

Mar 13, 2009 15:49:08 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Yes, but then how do they end up with versions of those powers? Melinda was a *very* powerful witch; certainly her powers should have changed to be what they could become. They did not. She certainly would've blown up Matthew if she had "molecular combustion"--she didn't; she could only freeze. Even the fact that Matthew only knew about those three original powers tells you that Melinda's never changed and she never received more.

If what you say is correct, the only powers that Melinda Warren's descendants would have (unless they married another witch, and to our knowledge, none of them did), they would've only had the ability to move things with their minds, freeze time, or know the future, the only powers Melinda had, Prue would not have developed astral projection; Piper would not have developed explosions and Phoebe most DEFINITELY would not have developed levitation or telepathy. The fact that their powers changed as they themselves changed shows that they weren't inherited, but given.

Now I know you do it differently in C:RR--that's fine; it's your own alternate universe with your own rules. But looking at the evidence from Charmed, no, they are definitely not inherited.

Also, there is no way you can use inheritance to explain the 20's cousins powers.

To me, it sounds a lot more like it depends upon what you did with your previous life as to which powers you are given than a simple shake of the dice as DNA would be.

We know about five spouses of MW's decendants (that produced children that lived): Gordon Johnson (P. Baxter), Allen/Jack (Penny), Leo (Piper), Coop (Phoebe), and Henry (Paige). We don't know anything about anyone further back than Gordon Johnson. We don't know if Prudence Warren's father was a witch. We don't know if P. Russell's or P. Bowen's fathers were witches. You can't write off what you don't know just because of five examples from recent generations, when were multiple generations you know nothing about.

And yes, Melinda was a powerful witch. Hence the reason she had three different powers. Perhaps had she not died so young, her powers would've grown more. But she did die, so any potential for a fourth or fifth power was never seen. Just because Melinda Warren died, however, does not mean that her genes - and the same potential for power growth - was not passed down through her decendants.

And there is no way you can discount power inheritence to explain the three cousins because you don't have proof of their ancestors and/or knowledge of what powers Melinda could've developed had she not been burned at the stake.

[CharmedFaith]

This is how I see things for the most part:

A. They are not given, they are basically inherited. The Elders have the ability to strip a witch of her ability (basically just locking it so it cant be unleashed) and jump starting a witches ability which they did to Piper for some odd reason. Maybe because she was close to her powers advancing but it was taking to long and with the Source becoming more active, they decieded to unleash her molecular combustion.

B. Powers are again inherited, but there will always be some black sheep in the family. Just as you can inherit eye color, hair color from a parent or grand parrent or great grandparent, you can inherit your powers from the same. Melinda had 3 powers which are the premise for 99% of Warren witches powers. The genetic or magic for it passes down through each generation with the possibility of skipping as it sometimes does. The magic gene for telekinesis was more evident in Grams so she recieved that power, molecular stasis for Patty, TK for Prue, etc...

Now we only know so much information about the 3 cousins that were the Halliwell sisters past lives. THeir fathers could have been witches which would give them the traits to inherit other base powers and possibly cancel out Melindas powers.

Had Melinda lived longer, there is the possibility that she could have grown each of her powers further into something different. But since the Halliwell sisters were Charmed, they were stronger than your average witch and thus so were their powers and that allowed their powers to grow faster than your average witch.

Billy was able to gain a new ability while Christy only had one power. And both of their powers were totally different.

Wyatt being a twice blessed child was just open to an array of powers for some odd reason. Chris who wasnt twice blessed, recieved Telekinesis from the Warren line and ofcourse Orbing from Leo.

All of this is just hwo I see things ofcourse.

[Fourever Charmed]

I agree with most of what you said, except for this:

Mar 13, 2009 18:43:21 GMT -5 CharmedFaith said:

A. They are not given, they are basically inherited. The Elders have the ability to strip a witch of her ability (basically just locking it so it cant be unleashed) and jump starting a witches ability which they did to Piper for some odd reason. Maybe because she was close to her powers advancing but it was taking to long and with the Source becoming more active, they decieded to unleash her molecular combustion.

I don't think The Elders have the power to strip a witch of her powers. If They did, then I don't think the Tribunal would be needed, because, for example in the case of Phoebe, The Elders could've stripped her powers Themselves.

[CharmedFaith]

Isnt the tribunal just made up of an elder, a high level demon and someone else? And they were able to basically bind Phoebe of ever unlocking an "active" power due to her past life or atleast thats what Leo made it sound like.

I think the Elders have the power to do it, they just try to be somewhat "fair" with how they do it by basically sending a witch to "witch" court.

[Fourever Charmed]

Mar 13, 2009 20:17:27 GMT -5 CharmedFaith said:

And they were able to basically bind Phoebe of ever unlocking an "active" power due to her past life or atleast thats what Leo made it sound like.

He never said that The Elders were responsible for Phoebe not getting an active power in her next life. Personally, I always thought that the Angels of Destiny was responsible for that (i.e. deciding that Phoebe's soul would be reborn as the sister with premonitions as opposed to TK or TS). But then again, we never actually got to see Phoebe in the "changed changed" 2009 future, though, so who knows, maybe she did end up developing her active electrokinesis as she had in "Morality Bites."

[CharmedFaith]

The AoDestiny bit would have been an interesting route for them to go/discuss in the show.

[Elder]

Mar 13, 2009 15:49:08 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

it depends upon what you did with your previous life as to which powers you are given than chance, as DNA would be--it's based on your soul's growth; not who your ancestors are.

That sounds like a "pardon my past" Anton/P. Russell kind of thing, eh?

I often wonder what happened with that skipped generation.
If we are to believe that Prue and Piper were Baxter and Bowen from the 1920s and they died shortly before Prue and Piper were born, what about P. Russell to Phoebe?
1924 to 1975 is 51 years for a person to connect one life to another. Who was that other life and can he/she be "strong enough" to cover for P. Russell's errors to connect her with an all-powerful force of good?

[CharmedFaith]

There probably wasnt another life in between. You dont have to immediatly get reincarnated. Grams and Patty have yet to be.

Though wouldnt it be interestin if one of the sisters gave birth to the reincarnated Melinda Warren.

[Astral Echo]

I imagine Melinda Warren herself had already been reincarnated at least once as when the sisters did summon her, they literally took her out of own time, correct?

I believe powers are usually part of your heritage but I think there are exceptions. From evidence shown in PMP, it looks as if Anton gave P. Russell a potion that gave her the power of pyrokinesis. She was a tarot card reader before that, even possibly a psychic so it's possible that she had the power of premonitions in that life too but Anton gave her the power to throw fire to help defeat her cousins.

P. Baxter also had weak temporal statis. Which leaves only P. Bowen who apparently had cryokinesis. Could that of been a power from her fathers family, quite possibly.

[Fourever Charmed]

Mar 14, 2009 9:56:44 GMT -5 Astral Echo said:

I believe powers are usually part of your heritage but I think there are exceptions. From evidence shown in PMP, it looks as if Anton gave P. Russell a potion that gave her the power of pyrokinesis. She was a tarot card reader before that, even possibly a psychic so it's possible that she had the power of premonitions in that life too but Anton gave her the power to throw fire to help defeat her cousins.

Anton gave P. Russell the potion to enhance her pyrokinesis, but it didn't give her the power:

Anton: Drink this.

Past Phoebe: What is it?

Anton: A potion to triple your power.

I think that prior to getting the potion, perhaps she had limitations such as only being able to start a fire via concentrating (like Crazy in the beginning) or perhaps she could light up her fingers like Serena Frederick or create small flames and then the potion allowed her to create the massive pyro blasts.

[Astral Echo]

Oh well just theory, after all Phoebe's pyrokinesis stemmed from her demonic spourn. Oo, there's a question, could P. Russell of been pregnant?

[CharmedFaith]

I doubt it. She obviously had the power for awhile, long enough for her cousins to know how to fight against her so im guessing its her original power.

[Esmeralda]

I'm with Charmed Faith. It's obvious that that's Past Phoebe's original power. It sounds like Phoebe is very liable to potions, since that's also what the Seer did to her. That's also what makes me think that the throwing ice was her original power and that it never changed--the potions didn't make her *powers* evil; it made *her* and the *way* she used her powers evil.

Due to what all three cousins did, I truly believe that that lifetime was NOT their only lifetime between being the cousins and being Charmed. If the rules of karma were followed (and we all know how inconsistent Charmed tended to be...) there's a 99.9% chance that they *would've* each had another lifetime, but that they would not have known one another and would have lived in completely totally different parts of the world from each other and from Penny or Patty.

More likely than not, they each would've been poor, male, and definitely not have any powers. They would've been of a minority race, wherever they each lived, so they would've had to endure prejudice and hatred and still grow up to be loving people despite that. They would've also all been very ugly and possibly even disabled to reflect how they looked on the inside as the cousins--nothing makes a person more ugly in their next lifetime than murder or turning evil. (Unless they changed between Forever Charmed and their deaths, Piper and Phoebe will also be VERY ugly in their next lifetimes to reflect how ugly they became on the inside. Paige and Prue, on the other hand, will both again be beautiful, even more beautiful than they were in this lifetime to reflect how beautiful they became on the inside.)

Most important, each would've done something "whitelighterly" in order to earn the right to be beautful again and family again, and earn the three powers that allowed them to become The Charmed Ones, especially the ability to access The Power of Three.

It wouldn't surprise me if this Past Piper had been one of the soldiers who Leo saved in his mortal life. Or more likely, she died saving him months before he died doing the same thing. Also highly likely that she would've been one of the Axis force, not one of the Allies force, who still saved one of the "enemies".

Now THOSE are the past lives I would've liked to have seen. much more than them being evil!

[ljones]

More likely than not, they each would've been poor, male, and definitely not have any powers. They would've been of a minority race, wherever they each lived, so they would've had to endure prejudice and hatred and still grow up to be loving people despite that. They would've also all been very ugly and possibly even disabled to reflect how they looked on the inside as the cousins--nothing makes a person more ugly in their next lifetime than murder or turning evil. (Unless they changed between Forever Charmed and their deaths, Piper and Phoebe will also be VERY ugly in their next lifetimes to reflect how ugly they became on the inside. Paige and Prue, on the other hand, will both again be beautiful, even more beautiful than they were in this lifetime to reflect how beautiful they became on the inside.)

So, being rich, female, beautiful and white would have been signs of moral and character progression for them?

[sitdogboy]

I imagine a Witch's power is determined the same way a persons eye or hair color would be. Depending on both parents, the stronger traits carry out to the offspring, the traits being a a range of powers. Maybe a witch carries several powers in their blood like people carry disease. Theres only a certian chance a which will get a certian power.