Elder
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"I'd still take 'good' that's not always good, over 'bad' that's NEVER good"
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Post by Elder on Mar 23, 2011 20:31:56 GMT -5
I wonder if the show would have been better if one of those two sisters did not need to appear.
What if the Halliwells had to save Christie without Billie's character or maybe Billie doesn't need to save anybody and it's just her...
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Post by pipercharmedphreak on Mar 27, 2011 17:53:45 GMT -5
Had the sisters had to save Christy and the writer's left out the Ultimate Power crap, maybe the whole Billie/Christy thing wouldn't have been so bad. I loathed the focus the writer's put on Billie. I thought Charmed was supposed to be about the sisters NOT Billie. *Sigh* And the vanquish...ugh. Wouldn't it have been better if they had to save her (Christy) instead of get rid of her.
Overall, I think it's possible the Billie/Christy storyline could have been done well. Heck with the two of them, maybe it could have brought the show back to what it was originally about: sisters first, witches second. It's a shame that it didn't.
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Astral Alex
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Not all those who wander are lost.
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Post by Astral Alex on Mar 27, 2011 18:00:57 GMT -5
Hmm, I think Kern could have introduced 'new blood' in rather different way.
But, personally I think the whole Billie/Christy storyline wasn't as bad as people make out. I think people just don't like Kaley's acting or the fact that the show focused on something else other than the sisters.
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Post by pipercharmedphreak on Mar 27, 2011 18:25:53 GMT -5
I HATED Kaley's acting in Charmed. Yet I love her in 8 Simple Rules and the Big Bang Theory.
I guess I just never warmed up to Billie. maybe if her character had more time to develop I would have liked her better.
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Astral Alex
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Not all those who wander are lost.
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Post by Astral Alex on Mar 27, 2011 18:30:51 GMT -5
I agree, sometimes 22 episodes isn't enough for a story-arc.
That's why I didn't enjoy Season 8, the introduction of Henry and Coop were far too rushed, even though I loved Henry and thought he was the best partner Paige had had in the show.
That's why I loved the whole Phoebe/Cole saga in Seasons 3 & 4, it was enough time for you to get to know his character, watch him rise, watch him fall, and then die :/
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 28, 2011 10:33:49 GMT -5
I agree, sometimes 22 episodes isn't enough for a story-arc. That's why I didn't enjoy Season 8, the introduction of Henry and Coop were far too rushed, even though I loved Henry and thought he was the best partner Paige had had in the show. That's why I loved the whole Phoebe/Cole saga in Seasons 3 & 4, it was enough time for you to get to know his character, watch him rise, watch him fall, and then die :/ Hehehe! I love the fact that you leave Season 5 out! Cole *so* should've stayed gone after his vanquish as possessed by the Source! |
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Astral Alex
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Not all those who wander are lost.
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Post by Astral Alex on Mar 28, 2011 10:37:54 GMT -5
I agree, sometimes 22 episodes isn't enough for a story-arc. That's why I didn't enjoy Season 8, the introduction of Henry and Coop were far too rushed, even though I loved Henry and thought he was the best partner Paige had had in the show. That's why I loved the whole Phoebe/Cole saga in Seasons 3 & 4, it was enough time for you to get to know his character, watch him rise, watch him fall, and then die :/ Hehehe! I love the fact that you leave Season 5 out! Cole *so* should've stayed gone after his vanquish as possessed by the Source! Haha, I wanted to make my post as plausible as possible aha, yes I think his Source vanquish was much more memorable than the one in Centennial Charmed, I think they only span him out just so they could vanquish him in the 100th episode, I always thought, if they wanted something special to happen in that episode, why not let Wyatt be born a couple of episodes early? |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 28, 2011 10:40:13 GMT -5
I wonder if the show would have been better if one of those two sisters did not need to appear. What if the Halliwells had to save Christie without Billie's character or maybe Billie doesn't need to save anybody and it's just her... I truly don't think so. Billie without Christy would still have been a too-powerful dumb-blonde in leather. Christy without Billie - the sisters couldn't care less about innocents at this time - the only reason they found Billie was because she was given to Paige as a charge (which never should've happened, just like Chris should've never been given the Charmed Ones as charges, but that's another topic) - so I can't see them trying to save her without Billie griping at them. The season would've been better had they hung onto Kyra from the previous year - rather than her dying, letting her - a demon who wanted to be a mortal - be the sisters' new protegee - and it also wouldn't have been as much of a rush. Billie might have worked out had someone besides a comedic actress been chosen to play her, had she *not* been Kern's MarySue. The way the sisters didn't care about innocents, I can't see Christy without Billie working out at all. |
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Post by dstar151 on Apr 7, 2011 19:42:52 GMT -5
i wouldve preffered if both billy and christy were kidnapped and trained by the triad. billys constant confusion was annoying. kaleys acting wasnt that good either. But honestly, i think christy was a more solid character. She had the bad vibe going on, billy was just... idk i didnt click well with her presence in the show. The ultimate battle was a ultimate mess... the charmed ones had more intense fights fighting regular demons... barca was a tough opponent and successfully stole the book of shadows and killed phoebe and paige. all they did was stand in front of eachother for 10 15 seconds and the mansion exploded.... wow some ultimate battle.
my answer being, i wouldve liked to see christy develop her powers on her own without billy being the way the writers made her. maybe if both were evil... like a evil charmed ones. I didnt like how billy vanquished her sister her breakdown was so hilarious. so no no billy plz XD lol
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Post by dylan345 on Apr 8, 2011 14:06:50 GMT -5
i wouldve preffered if both billy and christy were kidnapped and trained by the triad. billys constant confusion was annoying. kaleys acting wasnt that good either. But honestly, i think christy was a more solid character. She had the bad vibe going on, billy was just... idk i didnt click well with her presence in the show. The ultimate battle was a ultimate mess... the charmed ones had more intense fights fighting regular demons... barca was a tough opponent and successfully stole the book of shadows and killed phoebe and paige. all they did was stand in front of eachother for 10 15 seconds and the mansion exploded.... wow some ultimate battle. my answer being, i wouldve liked to see christy develop her powers on her own without billy being the way the writers made her. maybe if both were evil... like a evil charmed ones. I didnt like how billy vanquished her sister her breakdown was so hilarious. so no no billy plz XD lol That's because the writers were so dim at this point that anything exploding was automatically considered cool. |
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Post by erikamarie on Apr 12, 2011 3:23:54 GMT -5
I like Christy a good evil, smart, dry, tough, a pity her stupid sister, one easy to peruade of killing three women because they'ld be selfish
Christy is the one who really used the Book of Shadow, not as a text to flip through when you are in danger but a book to be studied s a basis for refining potions and spells, the dream of every demon
It is no coincidence that Christy invented the potion to teleport, also the sisters'ld do it but they planned their strategies only against the Source and they had Paige
Billie is too childish too reckless too self satisfied
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Jad
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Post by Jad on Apr 12, 2011 15:38:23 GMT -5
Billie's switch in alliegence was totally ubelievable.
The charmed Ones had already saved her sorry behind more than three times.
I don't know how it could have been done better. I think they wrote themselves into a corner that they could not get out of.....
Early Billie was good with all the comedy and comic situations at the beginning of the season, but she did pull off any growth in the acting. Kristy was a much better character and better acted.
Ok, I could go on and on about this but I'm going to stop here....
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Apr 13, 2011 0:28:57 GMT -5
Hehehe! I love the fact that you leave Season 5 out! Cole *so* should've stayed gone after his vanquish as possessed by the Source! Haha, I wanted to make my post as plausible as possible aha, yes I think his Source vanquish was much more memorable than the one in Centennial Charmed, I think they only span him out just so they could vanquish him in the 100th episode, I always thought, if they wanted something special to happen in that episode, why not let Wyatt be born a couple of episodes early? I hated both vanquishes. I hated the fact that the Halliwells killed Cole without bothering to find out how he became the Source in the first place. They killed him with extreme prejudice and I hate the writers for trying to make the viewers accept this as right. I hated "Centennial Charmed", because I thought it was badly written. They couldn't even get Paige's birth year right. As for Billie and Christy . . . I would have spared Christy. I liked her. |
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Jul 11, 2014 2:20:43 GMT -5
Count me among those rare few humans who can actually come away through all this not hating Billie. While I do understand the huge horrible bad rap the Billie character has gotten from the fandom, I personally disagree with it because on a conceptual level, she could've been great. Even with the whole "being played by a comedic actress" thing. The problem, as in everything, lies in the execution, and for that I believe Brad Kern and the "creative" staff deserve the brunt of the blame. Here are some examples of what I'm talking about. - One: PORTRAYAL AND EMPHASIS. Present Billie as a inexperienced witch with a lighthearted sense of humor, who carries hidden depths in both her skill and her character. Do away with the try-hard attempts to manufacture her cool factor (particularly the black wig and leather, which even Kaley hated, and the accompanying music) and constant emphasis on her "limitless superchick potential". That only took away from her ability to organically get over with viewers. Which brings me to…
- Two: AVOIDING CHARACTER SHILLING. See the above, but taking it further into the nature of her projection power and then the final arc with Christy. First off, it should've worked in an advanced/reversed AP sense, to where she can see anything she's looking for, past or present, with her mind's eye if she focuses on it—but not to where it would allow her to affect reality at all, with the exception of augmenting Christy's fire, since they're sister witches whose powers work with their minds. Which brings me to Christy, as well as the Jenkins combination overall. They can be a pretty potent duo, but DO NOT have them suddenly turn out to be the Ultimate Power. Find a better way of establishing them as arc villains, namely one that doesn't require implausible twists to continuity such as the Triad manifesting in backup lives. I like the fact that not only the bulk of their threat factor, but also the whole reason Christy was able to turn Billie against the Charmed Ones, all comes from the Halliwells' own erratic attitudes about their duties. But too much character-shilling unfortunately took attention away from that and kept it from being used to full effectiveness.
- Three: CONSISTENCY OVER DRAMA. Do away with any inconsistent drama plots. Surrounding Billie's introduction, the absolute worst example was how "The Lost Picture Show", where she gets a one-episode love interest plot with a good guy who just happened to be stuck in the wrong decade, was immediately followed up with "Battle of the Hexes", which had her be a straw feminist that Klea from the Brotherhood's twin sister could exploit as a pawn, yet no explanation behind the change was offered whatsoever. Surrounding Billie and Christy as a duo, again, the Ultimate Power thing. The ONLY plausible way it would work without flying in the face of previously-established series continuity would be to make Christy a daughter of the Source. Carl and Helen Jenkins would've conceived her through what they thought was a night of drunken sex but in truth was a night of Source-possessed evil ritual sex, complete with demonic priests. The Source can possess people, and can reproduce an heir, this was established through season 4. Using people with latent witch genes to create a potential heir for itself makes sense. The Source was also set up early on to become what was supposed to be the ultimate villain of THE ENTIRE SERIES. Making Christy the Source's insurance policy, taken from home at age X and raised by the same demonic priests from the ritual, tasked with guiding her into taking both the throne and the essence itself in the event that they should ever be left void for an extended period of time, would take the show back to its roots, as well as add context as to how she was able to manipulate Billie.
- Four: PROTECTING THE LEADS. This was far from a season 8 mistake or a Billie mistake, this was an ongoing, increasingly worsening error which only got identified through Christy's turning Billie along with everyone else against the Charmed Ones. By "protecting", I don't mean making them exempt from criticism. That's exactly the problem. They got to act selfishly yet be treated as correct by the show far too often, to the point it was almost fitting that they would lose everyone's support. What I mean is protecting their credibility as flawed yet righteous human beings, exactly the type that true heroes are made of. Let them do selfish deeds, let them make mistakes occasionally, but let them get called on it, learn from it, and become better for it, too. Both are necessary for positive character development to occur.
Now, fixing this one altogether would require going back to before Billie and Christy were ever figments in Brad Kern's imagination. But the Jenkins arc could've still been used to mitigate some of it. How? Going by material discussed in previous sections, such as Christy being a Source-child and Billie's power allowing her to see anything through her mind if she focuses for it, we have an easy answer. Christy should convince Billie to look for examples of the COs being less than upstanding, which thanks to the sisterly mind link would appear in both Billie's and Christy's minds' eyes. These examples should then become the call to arms the Jenkinses use to get the entire magical community to start questioning the COs, eventually leading to them summoning Patty and Grams for help. Except this time, Patty would scold them with an armor-piercing speech peppered with disappointment at who they've become, with even Grams taking some crap for the way she raised them to only respect female magical power. This would stun them into realizing just how far off course they've veered over the years.
This would prompt them to spend the last 4 episodes before the finale going back to basics; saving innocents and charges they're called to through Paige, restocking on lost Wiccan knowledge, Phoebe taking a real sabbatical from her column after realizing she's got a lot to learn…ultimately remembering that their task is not to kill Billie and Christy, but to save them. The second-to-late episode should culminate in Christy finally undergoing the ceremony to call the Source essence out of the wasteland to her as well as take the throne, at which point Billie should see that she was being used all along. But before newly crowned Source!Christy can kill her…enter Charmed Ones summoning her through the Call a Lost Witch spell at the same time.
Both Billie and the Halliwells exchange apologies, then work together to find a way to save Christy, as unlike in season 5 the Halliwells would actually remember that the Source person and the Source entity are not one and the same. however, would take the opportunity to destroy their This pretty much guaranteed that she'd be getting heat from the fans. Cue the COs, Billie, a couple leprechauns, a Valkyrie, and an ogre, taking on Source!Christy and her evil priests. Eventually, everyone except the two sets of sisters get vanquished, leading to the ending where Paige orbs the Valkyrie's pendant around Christy's neck, and Billie goes to fight Christy and hold her back from attacking the sisters, allowing them to recite the complete Vanquishing the Source spell (the Halliwell Ancestors one plus the one from the comics). Billie makes tracks the other way, getting far enough to survive the blast. About a minute or so afterwards, a Valkyrie portal opens and Christy returns, then suddenly passes out. Patty would reappear, this time expressing pride in her daughters for rediscovering themselves.
The final scene of the series takes place the day after this battle in the Manor. Billie thanks the Halliwells for everything they've taught her, and in turn they thank her for being part of what helped remind them of who they are. They ask about Christy's well-being and whereabouts. Turns out she's still unconscious, but Billie found a good gypsy friend to take care of her and to examine her mental state when she finally comes to. Phoebe especially expresses hope that this all works out so Christy can indeed be saved as opposed to repeating what happened with Cole. In the end, Billie leaves with all fences mended. The Angel of Destiny brings back Leo with congratulations (assuming he's still frozen mid-season like in the show), Coop beams in to see Phoebe, and Henry comes knocking, as Paige asked him to meet at the Manor after work. The ladies, their men, and Piper's kids, all agree to celebrate together today, and rededicate themselves to all the good they're still meant to do from hereon in…
Okay, now that my brain is done creating a whole plot out of what was supposed to be my fourth bullet point. I guess I can officially say it. *BUMP* |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 11, 2014 7:48:34 GMT -5
WOW! Very simply WOW!!! How I wish the last season had been more like this!!
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cyma
Witch
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Post by cyma on Jun 11, 2015 14:05:29 GMT -5
The ONLY plausible way it would work without flying in the face of previously-established series continuity would be to make Christy a daughter of the Source. So I was thinking of ways to make Season 8 less horrible without excluding Billie and Christy. And after reading this, I came up with something crazy We saw how that Nanny demon in Desperate Housewitches episode resurrected the Source using Wyatt. So how about instead of that, Elizabeth Turner does the same? But she does that two years ago or so when Wyatt finds himself lost in the Underworld thanks to one random demon or another. But ofcourse Elizabeth instead of resurrecting the Half-face Source, resurrects her grandson. The unborn fetus which exploded with the Seer. Let’s just say he comes back all grown-up about Cole’s age. Still haven’t figured how to explain that. Maybe she wants to bring back Cole but spell backfires and bring back her fully grown grandson instead? The whole demons being afraid of the Triad didn’t make sense. I mean seriously these guys were vanquished easily by a still bleeding Cole. Now everyone being afraid of Phoetus enough to kill each other rather than reveal his identity to the Charmed Ones make sense. As for how Billie and Christy fall into everything, I think the best way to explain the whole Ultimate Power thing is if these two were Phoetus’s daughters who were also quickly somehow grown-up. Which would make them Phoebe’s granddaughters  So Charmed Ones against Phoebe’s son, granddaughters and mother-in-law makes season 8 much better than….whatever the hell we got. I wouldn’t even mind Phoebe’s insane quest to find the father of her future daughter being part in season 8 now. Not when her son is watching and probably seething at her actions. That’s all I’ve figured out for now. |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jun 25, 2015 1:00:35 GMT -5
Why would Phoebe and Cole's son be automatically evil? In one of the Season 4 episodes, the Seer had a premonition in which he could have become a major force of good.
Billie Jenkins was a badly written character that poor Kaley Cuoco got stuck with. Even the best actors and actresses cannot work wonders on badly handled characters - whether by the screenwriter or the director.
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Post by piperfan2011 on Feb 20, 2017 20:45:25 GMT -5
I felt that there wasn't really a need for either Billie or Christy.The writers should have come up with something different.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
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Post by Esmeralda on Feb 20, 2017 21:02:46 GMT -5
I felt that there wasn't really a need for either Billie or Christy.The writers should have come up with something different. They couldn't. The only way we could have Season 8 was if Kern introduced a young new hot witch that they could do a spin-off off since Drew Fuller didn't want to be part of a Charmed Sons spin-off, which is why they came up with 'Supernatural' instead. Kern's Mary Sue is obviously what Kern thought the sisters should've been like... *sigh* And we were all so happy and excited when we found out there was going to be an eighth season...if only we'd known. 'Something Wicca This Way Goes' *so* should've been the series finale. |
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Post by Miranda Turner on Feb 20, 2017 21:04:42 GMT -5
Yes, the only way we would get a season 8 is if Billie was introduced. We couldn't have it any other way. Otherwise maybe we were better off with the show ending after season 7. If only.
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