VANQUISHING DEMONS

[vandergraafk]

Demons and warlocks may be vanquished by a variety of methods. Spells obviously carry a powerful punch. But, some spells require not just the power of three, but the inclusion of the entire Warren line of witches. Yet, other demons can seemingly be vanquished by mere metal. The demon who attacks Phoebe and her valiant graduate school classmate while she is having her flat tire attended to goes poof when he falls on a metal rod. Paige has vanquished demons by launching metal poles at them (Seven Year Witch). What are the rules for vanquishing demons? Is there any internal consistency within Charmed? For that matter, what does it mean to be vanquished?

[foxfire]

If there were to be a convenient vanquishing system it would be set up by the place in which the demon was in the underworld. For example, upper-level demons (God, I hate that expression) need to be vanquished through either elaborate spells and potions while lower-level demons can either be blown-up or killed the traditional way.

I also believe, in true Buffy fashion, that a demon can be killed through close combat. This is why penetrating them with metal rods (through their hearts) most likely kills them.

[whitelightertony]

Is there any internal consistency within Charmed?

The more powerful (and stronger) the demon, the harder it is to vanquish them.

For that matter, what does it mean to be vanquished?

You are sent to the Demonic Wasteland, losing all corporeal ties with Earth.

[vandergraafk]

So why should falling on a metal rod or having a metal rod pierce a (lower level) demon be enough to send this demon to the Wasteland?

[whitelightertony]

So why should falling on a metal rod or having a metal rod pierce a (lower level) demon be enough to send this demon to the Wasteland?

For the same reason that taking a bullet through the heart sends a powerless human to the afterlife...the creature's physiology isn't durable enough to withstand such an injury.

[vandergraafk]

So, what's the difference between an athame and a simple metal rod? And, worse, how are the Charmed Ones to know in advance if the one, and not the other, will work?

[foxfire]

Usually, when a demon is killed by a metal rod or whatnot, it's by accident without the Charmed Ones really knowing what they're doing.

More often than not, the Charmed Ones don't really know what they're up against (well after Prue left their intelligence towards demon-fighting strategy plummeted).

[vandergraafk]

Yes, that explains these Season 7 demons. But, what I am trying to get at is why should a metal rod - accident or not - vanquish a demon? What does it do to a demon?

[foxfire]

I'm guessing the same thing it does to every demon on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I'd say that "vanquish" is a magical way of putting it. I'd say they "slay" the demons when there's a metal rod or weapon involved.

[~.::Q T Pie::.~]

the way they are vanquished depends on whetether they are upper levle or lower levle demons, obiviously, the more powers they have, the harder they are to vanquish

[mom2wyattnchris]

it takes more power to kill an upper ranking demon than it does a lower ranking one. I also think it depends on the witch's mood and circumstances at the time too (example...being pregnant with child) and just how bad one witch alone wants to kill him/her. If all demons were to be killed by the same level of power (only if they were all high level)...the power of three would not be needed. Vanquishing to me means "die for good".

Does this make sense? I need some sleep!

[vandergraafk]

Vanquish can't possibly mean die for good. At best, it means a trip to the Wasteland to be recycled or await conjuring. Demonic essences don't die. Nor, for that matter, do witch essences die. The difference, if there is one, is that demons are not mortal, whereas witches are. Death does not become mortal witches. Death is simply another phase in the "life" of a demon. Warlocks, on the other hand, apparently are mortal entities who can and do die. However, the method of their deaths may enable them to become "immortal" and graduate to demon status: see Prewitched.

The issue gets a bit more complicated as a result of Mr. and Mrs. Witch. In that episode, Piper is compelled to deal with the Noxon, low level demons who apparently have been made vanquish proof. Now, good Magic apparently hasn't found a way to vanquish the Noxon. At best, one of the Magic School kids could condemn a Noxon to eternal vanquish by casting him into the astral plane mid-vanquish. As time ceases in this particular plane of existence, the Noxon will be locked in eternal vanquish, but never become fully vanquished.

The other Noxon is vanquished by Christy and Billie during a second thwarted attempt on the part of the Charmed Ones to interrogate the remaining Noxon. Since Christy's powers have been influenced and corrupted by trained agents of the TRIAD. perhaps the Noxon were not truly unvanquishable. It was experiment still in progress, an experiment the Source would love to take advantage of at some future date.

[Kit-the-cat]

Vanquish can't possibly mean die for good.

Not in Charmed anyway, we have seen Demons coming back

All Halliwells Eva -Grimlocks
And The Source

[ljones]

Why use the word "vanquish"? Why not be honest and simply say "kill"?

[vandergraafk]

Precisely because demons don't "die". They disappear from this plane of existence including the Underworld and are consigned to the Waste Land where their powers and essences will be recycled.

[ljones]

vandergraafk said:

Precisely because demons don't "die". They disappear from this plane of existence including the Underworld and are consigned to the Waste Land where their powers and essences will be recycled.

Yeah. Right. And why do the sisters continue to believe that these demons die whenever the latter are . . . vanquished?

Why didn't they just cut the hypocricy and call it what the sisters believed they were really doing? Namely killing?

[whitelightertony]

Because, if left undead/unvanquished, the demons would proceed to take over the world.

[vandergraafk]

There seems to me to be a clear difference between vanquishing a demon and killing a mortal. Now, it might be questioned whether the Charmed Ones are allowed - without penalty - to vanquish demons at random, as they seemed wont to do in Season 6. To my mind, there must be some justification, i.e., that an innocent's life is at stake. Thus, when Billie, for example, comes across the imps terrifying an innocent do-gooder with the aim of killing him or her, Billie is more than justified in attempting to vanquish the impmaster. But, suppose someone had tried to kill Drake? Here was a demon who no longer wished to be such and posed no threat to anyone except when he was under the Sorcerer's spell. Vanquishing him would have been completely unjustified.

[ljones]

There seems to me to be a clear difference between vanquishing a demon and killing a mortal. Now, it might be questioned whether the Charmed Ones are allowed - without penalty - to vanquish demons at random, as they seemed wont to do in Season 6. To my mind, there must be some justification, i.e., that an innocent's life is at stake.

How about their own bigotry and bloodlust?

[vandergraafk]

I understand the source of your comment. However, I don't see how the Charmed Ones' desire to revenge or to pre-emptively eliminate likely or even possible sources of demonic threat against Wyatt or themselves can justify the vanquishing of a demon. To me, such a reckless course is what condemns a good witch to the path of becoming a warlock.

Charmed hardly explored this avenue of corruption and merely posited the typical warlock as a good witch gone bad - Tuatha - or as demonic from the get go (the Rowe Coven in When Bad Warlocks Turn Good). Richard was certainly a candidate for warlockdom. And, had Charmed played its cards right, the character Chris, even though born a Charmed One, exhibited warlock like behavior, conditioned most likely from the future he had come from. This was certainly something worth developing and discussing. Instead, we got the incessant - and after a fashion, boring attacks on baby Wyatt.