Victor or Sam?

[evilspritepiper]

Which one do you like better with Patricia Halliwell?

[whitelightertony]

Honestly, we didn't see much of Sam and Patty together onscreen.

And Victor and Patty were dysfunctional. Much of it due to Grams sticking her nose where it didn't belong, but how do we know they wouldn't have been doomed even without Penny's interference?

[Esmeralda]

I'll agree with that. A bit like Jack with Prue or Dan with Piper or Jason and Drake and Coop with Phoebe, I saw Sam as a perfect rebound guy for Patty after Grams got rid of her true love, Victor. I don't think that Patty had her affair with Sam until after Victor was truly gone. Although I truly think that both Sam and Victor loved Patty, the way both Jack and Andy loved Prue, Dan and Leo and Greg loved Piper or Cole and Jason and Drake and Coop loved Phoebe, I just think that Patty truly loved Victor, Prue truly loved Andy, Piper truly loved Leo (while Piper was the middle child...) and Phoebe truly loved Cole (or at least the Cole she *thought* he was), while Sam, Jack, Dan, Greg, Jason, Drake and Coop were just guys to have fun with while trying to get over their true loves.

[*Sammi!*]

I think Victor/ Patty are funny together!
I love the bit in Pipers wedding when Patty comes down the stairs and Victor turns round to everyone and says "ok, who brought my ex wife back from the dead?!" that tickles me everytime!

[piper123]

I do beleive that piper was genuinly in love with Dan for some time she just didn't love him as much as leo. Now that fireman he was just 'guy to have fun with.'

I think sam. As far as i'm concerned leaving youre kids is a realy sh!ty thing to do.

[*Sammi!*]

^^He had reasons to do so though. It wasnt as though he just up'd and left now is it?!

[charmedfan86]

It is hard to decide if victor is better with Patty or Sam....Their characters are great and they both cared about her I would say sam since she cared more for him than Victor.....

[colehellsangel]

whitelightertony said:

Honestly, we didn't see much of Sam and Patty together onscreen.

And Victor and Patty were dysfunctional. Much of it due to Grams sticking her nose where it didn't belong, but how do we know they wouldn't have been doomed even without Penny's interference?

We don't see too much more of Victor and Patty onscreen. But truly I think she was great with both for the purposes they served. Victor I believe was a good husband while their love lasted and he is a good father even though he had his troubles especially with Grams. You really can't blame the poor guy, he's a mortal in a family of witches and magic.

Sam was also a very good man, and its very obvious that he loved her very much, and no I don't just mean Paige . In P3H2O(pending I am remembering it properly) its revealed that he had clipped his wings upon Patty's death he felt so guilty. Plus there were the love letters to him from her.

I think they both served her well, Victor as her first love(or assuming as you never hear of any previous marriages) and the man who provided her with three beautiful girls and Sam as the shoulder to lean on when Victor was gone. Bottom line, I believe that neither was better because they both served her differently and thus each was its own relationship and worked out well for their purposes.

[*Sammi!*]

^ Very well put, though that makes it seem as though Patty was just using Sam because Victor had walked out on them... which maybe she was?
I think Patty and Victor had that kind of love that Piper and Leo have, the love that never ends. You see it when they look at each other in the last episode. The love in their eyes, and the look of distinguished proudness (I made that word up) of the girls and the children.
I dont think Patty and Sam would have had this.

[evilspritepiper]

I can see both ways.Because they both contributed to the birth of the legendary Charmed Ones.

[The Original P3]

Victor. No contest.

[colehellsangel]

sammie said:

^ Very well put, though that makes it seem as though Patty was just using Sam because Victor had walked out on them... which maybe she was?
I think Patty and Victor had that kind of love that Piper and Leo have, the love that never ends. You see it when they look at each other in the last episode. The love in their eyes, and the look of distinguished proudness (I made that word up) of the girls and the children.
I dont think Patty and Sam would have had this.

I am not sure now that you put it that way, I need to see P3H2O again and be reminded of the content of the letters from her. Until then I am comebackless. hehe.

But either way Victor was definitely the truest love, you can even tell in the episode where Wyatt and Chris's sibling rivalry is accidentally given to the sisters. The way they interacted then showed that there was still a spark despite that Patty is dead hehe. They also spoke aloud to each other of how they raised good daughters despite them both missing their teenage years. They had a sense of Proudness(hehe I am borrowing it Sammi) there too.

Not to mention is rage at first finding out that Piper was marrying a whitelighter. I don't think Victor ever stopped loving her after all it was Grams that drove him away not that his and Patty's love died. That could be reason for Patty to need Sam's shoulder because she still loved Victor but Grams got rid of him. But if I knew what the P3H2O letters said I could make a more accurate and better argument. But it seems like there was real love there too. Maybe she grew to love while she was using his shoulder. I'm just throwing out random thoughts here.

[Esmeralda]

evilspritepiper said:

I can see both ways.Because they both contributed to the birth of the legendary Charmed Ones.

I guess it depends upon how you answer the question--which one you like better. I like better the one she was truly in love with as compared to who was truly in love with her. And having a child with someone doesn't mean you love that someone; it just means you had sex with them.

[*Sammi!*]

true... but then, (Im completely contradicting myself) Patty doesnt seem like the person who would randomly sleep with different people. I think she loved both of Sam, just loved Victor more!

[Esmeralda]

I think she *thought* she was in love with Sam--like Piper with Dan or Greg, or like Prue with Jack, or like Phoebe with Jason or Drake or Coop. And like her daughters (especially because their show was on the WB), that's enough to have sex with them.

[colehellsangel]

esmeralda said:

evilspritepiper said:

I can see both ways.Because they both contributed to the birth of the legendary Charmed Ones.

I guess it depends upon how you answer the question--which one you like better. I like better the one she was truly in love with as compared to who was truly in love with her. And having a child with someone doesn't mean you love that someone; it just means you had sex with them.

I disagree in part with this. I think that how much you love the person and how much they love you are both equally important. Since we don't know too much about Sam it is kind of safe to assume that he was the shoulder to lean on when Victor left since she did not want him out it was Grams that did and he got fed up with her(Grams). You can tell in several episode where she and Victor interact that what they had was true love but obviously Grams got very very in the way. I can't blame Victor for getting fed up with how much grief Grams was giving him and that would upset Patty enough to go to someone she knows really cares deeply about her. I think that Patty did in a sense truly love Sam as Sammi pointed out but more as like a second father maybe or an older brother but then when she was upset about Victor leaving it got a little farther than anticipated. Or thats how I see it at least until I can be reminded of what the P3H2O letters said. Because depending on the content of the letters perhaps it was something along the lines of what Esmeralda is suggesting about her just thinking she was in love with Sam which would tie into what I was saying earlier about needing a shoulder, or a love affair. Or personally I believe there was an actual relationship as the show itself suggests because Patty when she is telling the girls th story of Paige words it as
"When Sam and I were together"
So that says that there was actually a relationship especially when they are compared to Piper and Leo through Cole's comment about the apple not falling far from the forbidden tree.

[whitelightertony]

If Victor loved his family so much, then why did he wait until the girls were in their mid-twenties before attempting to reconnect with them?

He could have tried to make contact with Prue and Piper when they went off to college (in fact, he would have had to - - to go behind Penny's back).

Apparently, he *sort of* kept in touch with Piper (although not genuinely enough to remember his daughters' birthdays)...so why did he never propose to arrange to meet with Piper away from the manor (out of Grams's watchful eye)?

I find it laughable for people here to be insisting that Patty loved Victor so much more than Sam, when Victor clearly did the absolute minimum to stay in his daughters' lives. Since Victor was such a lousy father, what makes anyone believe he would have been any better to Patty as a husband?

[colehellsangel]

whitelightertony said:

If Victor loved his family so much, then why did he wait until the girls were in their mid-twenties before attempting to reconnect with them?

He could have tried to make contact with Prue and Piper when they went off to college (in fact, he would have had to - - to go behind Penny's back).

Apparently, he *sort of* kept in touch with Piper (although not genuinely enough to remember his daughters' birthdays)...so why did he never propose to arrange to meet with Piper away from the manor (out of Grams's watchful eye)?

I find it laughable for people here to be insisting that Patty loved Victor so much more than Sam, when Victor clearly did the absolute minimum to stay in his daughters' lives. Since Victor was such a lousy father, what makes anyone believe he would have been any better to Patty as a husband?

He probably was just afraid of being intercepted by Grams as she *did* insist that he not be in their lives since he discouraged magic. although you are right that once Grams was dead the threat was gone and thus he had no reason to stay away. But perhaps he was also very hit by the fact that Patty ran off with Sam and then she died on top of the issues with Grams; thats a big plate to carry. He probably just needed some space. You can't blame him too much he's a mortal in a family of magic and witches. It sounds like he didn't bother to understand about the magical world before marrying into a magical family. So I think when magic began to matter in the marriage(when Prue was born) he got scared and did not know what to do. Thus Grams coming in and insisting that she take over with the raising of the girls.

This was definitely his mistake but he married into a complicated world so its not entirely his fault. I think he really did love Patty otherwise he would not have been so accepting to permanently step into this strange and scary world to be with her and tolerated Grams as long as he did. Plus he would not hold such a grudge against whitelighters because her being with Sam would not have bothered him.

So I think they really did have a real love(Three times the real love lol) but the magical world just eventually overwhelmed him.

[ljones]

I really don't know who was better for Patty. I think that she and Victor could have had a good marriage, if Grams had not interferred with their relationship. But . . . Patty had two strikes against her when she failed to tell Victor that she was a witch BEFORE their marriage, and when she cheated on him with Sam. Contrary to what Patty or Leo may have said, I believe that Patty did commit adultery. Paige's birthdate is proof of that. And Victor has a major strike against him by skipping out on the family . . . and staying away for two decades.

Sam, on the other hand, did commit adultery with his charge. He, Patty and Grams gave Paige away, instead of raised her, because they were more concerned with the possibility of the Elders taking Paige's "destiny" as a witch away from her, instead of being part of the family. And I suspect that Sam also feared of being punished by the Elders for breaking the rules. Coward. And quite frankly, he turned out to be an even worse father than Victor.

[colehellsangel]

ljones said:

I really don't know who was better for Patty. I think that she and Victor could have had a good marriage, if Grams had not interferred with their relationship. But . . . Patty had two strikes against her when she failed to tell Victor that she was a witch BEFORE their marriage, and when she cheated on him with Sam. Contrary to what Patty or Leo may have said, I believe that Patty did commit adultery. Paige's birthdate is proof of that.

Ok I don't remember a lot of the early seasons so maybe its something I have forgotten but where is is revealed that Patty did not say anything about being a witch before the marriage? Even so though Victor accepted it at least long enough to produce three children.

Second how do we know that Patty did not go to Sam after Victor left her?

Not saying you are wrong but I don't remember where these things were clearly stated.

And I suspect that Sam also feared of being punished by the Elders for breaking the rules. Coward.

Leo and Piper did as well thus the whole "Rudabeggah(sp?)" thing.