Aaeiyn
Whitelighter
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jul 28, 2023 9:51:18 GMT -5
The great debate between who had the "better" grasp/grip, on the show, Burge or Kern?
To be fair, we're only looking at the work and goals that occurred in S1-S2.
I've (also) put alleged descriptions, in where each have been accused of setting the show up, in a particular direction. Please correct any false allegations, so we can look at it accurately.
Constance M. Burge General Grounded in Reality (Human Baddies, Mostly) No Long Term Romances, Beyond a Season + No Kids Just the Sisters, No Extra Characters
(S1) Patty Looking After the Girls At least, that's what's implied (flipping the pages of the book, amongst other things), in the following episodes: - *(Spirit Board and Attic Door) S1E0 "Unaired Pilot" - *(Spirit Board and Attic Door) S1E1 "Something Wicca This Way Comes" - (flipping the pages of the BOS) S1E3 "Thank You For Not Morphing" - (flipping the pages of the BOS) S1E8 "The Truth is Out There...and it Hurts" - (writing in the BOS and saving Prue) S1E13 "From Fear to Eternity" - (flipping the pages of the BOS) S1E20 "The Power of Two" * = Credited for writing
Season One Credited for Writing the following: - S1E0 "Unnaired Pilot" - S1E1 "Something Wicca This Way Comes" - S1E5 "Dream Sorcerer" - **(Story & Teleplay) S1E14 "Secrets & Guys" - S1E22 "Deja Vu all Over, Again" ** = Sherl J. Anderson help co-wrote (Teleplay only)
Season Two Dan for Piper
Credited for Writing the following: - S2E3 "The Painted World" - **(Story & Teleplay) S2E9 "Ms. Hellfire" - (Story & Teleplay) S2E20 "Astral Monkey" ** = Sherl J. Anderson help co-wrote (Teleplay only)
Brad Kern General Leo for Piper Whitelighters Fantastical Universe (Magical Baddies, Mostly) Long Term Romances Beyond a Season + Kids Beyond the Sisters, Extra Characters
(S2+) Grams Looking After the Girls At least, that's what's implied (flipping the pages of the book, amongst other things), in the following episodes: - *(flipping the pages of the BOS and appearing) S2E1 "Witch Trial" - Varying episodes past S2 but definitely retconnd away from Patty. * = Credited for Writing
Season One Credited for Writing the following: - S1E2 "I've Got You Under My Skin" - **(Story & Teleplay) S1E10 "Wicca Envy" - **(Story) S1E14 "Secrets & Guys" - S1E20 "The Power of Two" - S1E22 "Deja Vu All Over, Again" ** = Sherl J. Anderson help co-wrote (Teleplay only)
Season Two Dan for Phoebe
Credited for Writing the following: - S2E1 "Witch Trial" - (Teleplay) S2E19 "Ex Libris" - ***S2E22 "Be Careful What You Witch For" *** = Directed by Shannen Doherty
Who had the better grasp/grip, of the show?
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Aaeiyn
Whitelighter
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 4,745
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jul 28, 2023 10:07:57 GMT -5
Lemme select, what I like about each of the two before just blindly voting for Burge.
Constance M. Burge General (S1) Patty Looking After the Girls
Season Two Credited for Writing S2E3 "The Painted World"
Brad Kern Fantastical Universe (Magical Baddies, Mostly) Long Term Romances Beyond a Season + Kids Beyond the Sisters, Extra Characters
Season One Credited for Writing S1E20 "The Power of Two"
Season Two Dan for Phoebe
Credited for Writing (Teleplay) S2E19 "Ex Libris"
That being said, I think Kern has a slight edge over Burge due to visions. However, Burge has the better consistency with her writing than Kern.
That being said, and IK this is an unpopular opinion, objectively speaking, I'mma have to go with Kern, for now...
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Aaeiyn
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✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jul 28, 2023 20:07:21 GMT -5
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Post by Keeper Of Melinda's Locket on Jul 28, 2023 20:37:21 GMT -5
I've never been that crazy about either of their work. I actually couldn't vote for either of them. LOL, I actually think they do well when they can compromise and work together. I like the episodes that they do with others than their solo work. Connie & Kern on 'Deja Vu All Over Again', Burge with Sheryl on 'Hellfire' and Kern with others on 'Ex-Libris'. Kern seemed to be somewhat good at world-building (even if I protest his decision to introduce Elders and Whitelighters) and Connie was good with the sisters and their relationship, after all, they're written after her and her sisters. If they could get along well, they could've done okay. If only they can compromise. But I digress. However, Aaeiyn. It's interesting you bring up the idea of Patty being the one to turn the book rather than Grams. I forgot that it was Witch Trial that made it clear it was Grams.
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Aaeiyn
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✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jul 29, 2023 1:42:57 GMT -5
I've never been that crazy about either of their work. I actually couldn't vote for either of them. I'm not super thrilled about either, as well but a little disappointed you didn't vote The votes aren't permanent, and you can always change your mind. At the very least we can discuss the pros and cons of each. However, Aaeiyn . It's interesting you bring up the idea of Patty being the one to turn the book rather than Grams. I forgot that it was Witch Trial that made it clear it was Grams. I will die on the hill that the one watching over them was SUPPOSED to be Patty and NOT Grams!
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Aaeiyn
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✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 4,745
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jul 29, 2023 1:59:34 GMT -5
Gonna tag Sandra , as well, since this conversation got brought up, in a different thread, as well, and I don't mind shifting that conversation, back over here. Same with greta . I'll probably have more to add to this conversation, at a later time, but I already used up all of my big response energy for another thread, so I'll be doing shorter thread responses, for now LOL
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Post by greta on Jul 29, 2023 2:18:15 GMT -5
Despite me not being a big fan of either Connie or Kern's body of work in terms of what they wrote on their own, I voted for Connie for the sake of putting a vote to someone. Lol 😆 Not that I agree with her. I give her props for developing the sisters relationship in S1 and setting up the basic building blocks of Charmed. It seemed like Kern was much more into the magical elements, demons and fantasy aspects. As we've discussed in another thread each writer had their own way of doing things and likely their own continuity of how they saw things. 😆 Aaeiyn do you think they had it be Grams because the writers couldn't get Finola back for the S2 opener and she was unavailable. She was spoken about on the podcast being quite busy.
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Aaeiyn
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✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jul 29, 2023 16:55:00 GMT -5
Aaeiyn do you think they had it be Grams because the writers couldn't get Finola back for the S2 opener and she was unavailable. She was spoken about on the podcast being quite busy. While a fair point, you don't always have to show Patty. They even did that with Grams, so I don't see the point in changing it away from Patty to Grams. I just don't.
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Aaeiyn
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✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jul 29, 2023 17:08:58 GMT -5
I want to give credit where credit is due.
A LOT of Burge's episodes deals with human baddies. Rarely are her episodes ACTUALLY about a magical threat. And, it really puts the magic as a background thing versus something that's supposed to be a part of their lives. She even contradicted herself, in her own pilot that ALL forms of evil would be "looking for them", yet she only did "bad humans"? A little unimaginative especially for a show about magic which can showcase SO many FANTASY things and yet most of Burge's threats weren't.
There's Jeremy, Dream Sorcerer (though, still human), Malcolm & Jane, Barbas (a re-use and actually giving him a name) and Dr. Williamson (still a human), that actually had some form of magical imagination.
So, I have to give credit to Kern for ACTUALLY being somewhat imaginative in creating better villains, in a magical show, that aren't "bad humans". Granted, A LOT of these "demons" might as well just be "bad humans" but still.
I (also) don't know if I can credit Connie for writing the sisters "better". On top of "evil humans", she's a huge Prue fan and A LOT of her episodes are just heavily centered around Prue:
- S1E5 "Dream Sorcerer" - S1E14 "Secrets & Guys" - S2E9 "Ms. Hellfire"
And, the other episodes seem to focus on one other sister, as well (but most of the time it's Prue):
- (Phoebe) S2E3 "The Painted World" - (Piper) S2E20 "Astral Monkey"
It seems like only her pilot episode was more about them as sisters than anything else. But, I can appreciate her idea in having solo ideas, for the sisters, instead of just the sisters being together, all the time.
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Post by greta on Jul 29, 2023 17:53:04 GMT -5
Aaeiyn do you think they had it be Grams because the writers couldn't get Finola back for the S2 opener and she was unavailable. She was spoken about on the podcast being quite busy. While a fair point, you don't always have to show Patty. They even did that with Grams, so I don't see the point in changing it away from Patty to Grams. I just don't. Great assessment, but its hard to tell when Connie tended to write with other writers. So we can't be 100% sure she was writing the Prue bits for Secrets and Guys and Ms. Hellfire. What's interesting is both of those she wrote them with Sheryl. The podcast said Connie was pro Piper/Dan so she could've written that story and Sheryl wrote the Prue Hellfire plot. But again, its so hard to really know who wrote what right. LOL I want to give credit where credit is due. A LOT of Burge's episodes deals with human baddies. Rarely are her episodes ACTUALLY about a magical threat. And, it really puts the magic as a background thing versus something that's supposed to be a part of their lives. She even contradicted herself, in her own pilot that ALL forms of evil would be "looking for them", yet she only did "bad humans"? A little unimaginative especially for a show about magic which can showcase SO many FANTASY things and yet most of Burge's threats weren't. There's Jeremy, Dream Sorcerer (though, still human), Malcolm & Jane, Barbas (a re-use and actually giving him a name) and Dr. Williamson (still a human), that actually had some form of magical imagination. So, I have to give credit to Kern for ACTUALLY being somewhat imaginative in creating better villains, in a magical show, that aren't "bad humans". Granted, A LOT of these "demons" might as well just be "bad humans" but still.
I (also) don't know if I can credit Connie for writing the sisters "better". On top of "evil humans", she's a huge Prue fan and A LOT of her episodes are just heavily centered around Prue: - S1E5 "Dream Sorcerer" - S1E14 "Secrets & Guys" - S2E9 "Ms. Hellfire" And, the other episodes seem to focus on one other sister, as well (but most of the time it's Prue): - (Phoebe) S2E3 "The Painted World" - (Piper) S2E20 "Astral Monkey" It seems like only her pilot episode was more about them as sisters than anything else. But, I can appreciate her idea in having solo ideas, for the sisters, instead of just the sisters being together, all the time. Great assessment, but its hard to tell when Connie tended to write with other writers. So we can't be 100% sure she was writing the Prue bits for Secrets and Guys and Ms. Hellfire. What's interesting is both of those she wrote them with Sheryl. The podcast said Connie was pro Piper/Dan so she could've written that story and Sheryl wrote the Prue Hellfire plot. But again, its so hard to really know who wrote what right. LOL Going off the ones she wrote solo only: - S1E01 "Something Wicca This Way Comes" (sisterly) - S1E5 "Dream Sorcerer" (Prue) - S2E3 "The Painted World" (Phoebe) But, I do agree that Connie seems to really like to do episodes that have a sub-plot. I notice outside of the first episode, all of them have a side story that involves one or two sisters. One things clear, Connie is very anti-Leo. There's only two episodes she's part of that even has him in it. LOL I never noticed until you brought it up that Connie likes human villains and warlocks. I'll give Kern credit for creating better villains, in a magical show as well. Interesting point about a lot of the demons may as well have been bad humans. There's quite a lot of demons that could've just as easily been warlocks with a power. And on the flip side warlocks who could've been demons like Jeremy. I don't think the show would survive if it was completely grounded where the only villains were bad humans and warlocks.
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Aaeiyn
Whitelighter
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 4,745
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jul 29, 2023 20:32:26 GMT -5
Great assessment, but its hard to tell when Connie tended to write with other writers. So we can't be 100% sure she was writing the Prue bits for Secrets and Guys and Ms. Hellfire. While I see what you're saying, and we discussed something similar in the Favorite (or Preferred) S1 Writer(s) thread, Burge IS credited for the STORY of BOTH episodes. Sheryl only comes into play for the Teleplay. So, Burge is responsible for the FOUNDATION of BOTH of those episodes. But, I'm not gonna be mad if she really wants to focus on Prue. Burge should be able to write however she wants, I may not like it, but she can write whatever story she wants to tell. What's interesting is both of those she wrote them with Sheryl. Right but only S2E15 "Give Me a Sign" credits Sheryl for writing that and somewhat had it "Prue centric" but not as daunting as S1E5 "Dream Sorcerer" & S1E14 "Secrets & Guys". Sheryl even assisted Kern with S1E10 "Wicca Envy" but mostly with the Teleplay. Kern is still responsible (according to the credits, anyway) of the FOUNDATION of said episode. I actually think Sheryl Teleplayed Kern's portion of S1E14 "Secrets & Guys" and Burge, properly pieced together her portion of S1E14 "Secrets & Guys" which seems to be all about Prue. Whereas, Kern was setting up the FOUNDATION for Leo, and Sheryl had to piece together, the final touches, to Kern's FOUNDATION. IDK if this is what made Sheryl partial to Leo, in her S2E15 "Give Me a Sign" episode but yeah. The podcast said Connie was pro Piper/Dan so she could've written that story and Sheryl wrote the Prue Hellfire plot. But again, its so hard to really know who wrote what right. LOL Again, I see what you're saying, but I don't see that being case. Sheryl only assisted in the Teleplay and NOT the Story (at least, according to the credits). Sheryl's name isn't there, for the story. Sheryl was only working on the FOUNDATION already set in place, by Burge, for the episodes. Like I said, Sheryl probably assisted Kern on his portion of S1E14 "Secrets & Guys" while Burge completed her vision, of her part, of that episode. 'Cause Kern is credited for the FOUNDATION, as well for S1E14 "Secrets & Guys", but his name is not in the credits for the Teleplay. Which is why I think Sheryl just ended up Teleplaying Kern's portion of episode, while Burge focused on her's.
I did note Burge is being accused of being a Piper & Dan shipper, and I have to disagree with her. I'm still upset that Piper & Josh broke up to make way for Leo, and S2 didn't go that direction, until Sheryl made it official, in S2E15 "Give Me a Sign". If anything, the triangle should've consisted of Piper & Josh and NOT Piper & Dan. 'Cause Piper's reasons for dumping Josh is because she's thinking about Leo and not Josh. And, it's pretty clear and obvious that Piper was definitely thinking Leo and not Dan, throughout S2 yet she doesn't dump Dan? Doesn't make any sense. Piper & Josh should've been endgame, and I'm so upset at EVERYONE for dumping them 😒 Team Piper & Josh!But again, its so hard to really know who wrote what right. LOL I have a pretty good idea especially following writing patterns 😝 One things clear, Connie is very anti-Leo. There's only two episodes she's part of that even has him in it. LOL Yeah, I'll have to agree with Es in that he should've died back in S1E21 "Love Hurts" LOL Which neither Burge nor Kern are credited for writing (nor Sheryl), BUT I'm sure Kern probably said "don't kill Leo" LOL Interesting point about a lot of the demons may as well have been bad humans. There's quite a lot of demons that could've just as easily been warlocks with a power. And on the flip side warlocks who could've been demons like Jeremy. I don't think the show would survive if it was completely grounded where the only villains were bad humans and warlocks. Yeah, Burge has an interesting fascination with human baddies vs magical baddies. Perhaps, that was her way of trying to be "original" and not take the easy route of doing magical baddies, all of the time. And, it really enforces the Halliwells to not always do a "vanquish" route. Still, I prefer the magical baddies over the "human" ones.
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Post by lunchking on Jul 30, 2023 3:23:52 GMT -5
It was so tough for me to vote. I don't like either. But Kern JUST beat Connie and only barely.
I did note Burge is being accused of being a Piper & Dan shipper, and I have to disagree with her. I'm still upset that Piper & Josh broke up to make way for Leo, and S2 didn't go that direction, until Sheryl made it official, in S2E15 "Give Me a Sign". If anything, the triangle should've consisted of Piper & Josh and NOT Piper & Dan. 'Cause Piper's reasons for dumping Josh is because she's thinking about Leo and not Josh. And, it's pretty clear and obvious that Piper was definitely thinking Leo and not Dan, throughout S2 yet she doesn't dump Dan? Doesn't make any sense. Piper & Josh should've been endgame, and I'm so upset at EVERYONE for dumping them 😒 Team Piper & Josh! It's not Piper and Leo (who I can't stand), so I would've been so much happier with them. Even though I'm more Team Piper and Mark. I also don't care for Piper/Dan either. But I'd be fine with these two, since Josh was a living character at the time, so it was easier to move forward with him. It's sad they just abandoned him like that. I know Holly needed time off in the last three proceeding episodes and she had to be seated more post-surgery, but that's no excuse to dump them as a couple (I don't think Leo was brought back just as a plot-device for Piper to be stuck in the attic for Holly's time off, this surgery would've been known weeks ahead in advance for writers to have known it was coming). LOL they could've just had Piper and Josh go to Hawaii for a trip instead in PO2 and had her return in the next episode with a broken leg from an accident she had on said trip with Josh allowing . I guess they could've had Josh leave still, but have him reappear in S2 and reconnect with Piper. Yeah, I'll have to agree with Es in that he should've died back in S1E21 "Love Hurts" LOL Which neither Burge nor Kern are credited for writing (nor Sheryl), BUT I'm sure Kern probably said "don't kill Leo" LOL I think that would've been the best thing they could've done not only for Piper's character but for the show long-term. But like you, I'm sure Kern's the one who screamed "NO". I actually might enjoy this episode more if Leo did die. Piper's speech after he dies would hit differently if he was gone. An idea just popped into my head now with a question that has never been discussed I don't think on this board. What killed/ruined the show more longterm: Not killing off removing Leo after S1/and never letting the whitelighter/Elder mythology become a bigger part of the series moving forward or having Prue killed off/Shannen fired after S3? Yeah, Burge has an interesting fascination with human baddies vs magical baddies. Perhaps, that was her way of trying to be "original" and not take the easy route of doing magical baddies, all of the time. And, it really enforces the Halliwells to not always do a "vanquish" route. Still, I prefer the magical baddies over the "human" ones. Magical baddies for me always. There's so much more you can do creatively with magical baddies than human ones. I do like human ones but I prefer a mix of both, but only human baddies being in the minority just a couple a season is more than enough tops. Yeah, maybe Connie wanted to be more original that way and didn't want to jump on the bandwagon of doing magical baddies from what had already been seen on other fantasy and sci-fi shows that came before with similar set-ups with the type of villains seen.
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Post by greta on Jul 30, 2023 5:00:28 GMT -5
Great assessment, but its hard to tell when Connie tended to write with other writers. So we can't be 100% sure she was writing the Prue bits for Secrets and Guys and Ms. Hellfire. While I see what you're saying, and we discussed something similar in the Favorite (or Preferred) S1 Writer(s) thread, Burge IS credited for the STORY of BOTH episodes. Sheryl only comes into play for the Teleplay. So, Burge is responsible for the FOUNDATION of BOTH of those episodes. But, I'm not gonna be mad if she really wants to focus on Prue. Burge should be able to write however she wants, I may not like it, but she can write whatever story she wants to tell. What's interesting is both of those she wrote them with Sheryl. Right but only S2E15 "Give Me a Sign" credits Sheryl for writing that and somewhat had it "Prue centric" but not as daunting as S1E5 "Dream Sorcerer" & S1E14 "Secrets & Guys". Sheryl even assisted Kern with S1E10 "Wicca Envy" but mostly with the Teleplay. Kern is still responsible (according to the credits, anyway) of the FOUNDATION of said episode. I actually think Sheryl Teleplayed Kern's portion of S1E14 "Secrets & Guys" and Burge, properly pieced together her portion of S1E14 "Secrets & Guys" which seems to be all about Prue. Whereas, Kern was setting up the FOUNDATION for Leo, and Sheryl had to piece together, the final touches, to Kern's FOUNDATION. You got me coming around to this. Because now that I think more about it, Connie's Prue story in "Secrets & Guys" could've been based on Connie's own family experiences or one of her two older sisters who were the first to have a child. Someone posted an article here: thecharmedcafe.proboards.com/thread/12870/story-charmed-constance-burge-interviewI'm certain Kern was the founder of the Whitelighter/Elder lore and maybe that's why he got story credit. But Sheryl teleplayed his parts. Also because he and Sheryl worked on 'Wicca Envy" together too, although Kern got story credit for it only. I've never seen a Piper/Josh fan before. Congratulations, I've met my first in you. What is it about them you like? I have a pretty good idea especially following writing patterns 😝 Clearly, you really think so deep about it. I think a little too much about this. Just kidding. No, you know writing patterns better than me. I assume you do this for more than just Charmed? Your other thread talking about Andy and what we lost when he was killed. Imagine the show if it killed Leo and kept Andy moving forward. Since Kern likely set up the whitelighter mythology, I'm sure he demanded he stay.
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Aaeiyn
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✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jul 30, 2023 20:11:24 GMT -5
I guess they could've had Josh leave still, but have him reappear in S2 and reconnect with Piper. That's what I guess, too. IK she wants a more local individual, and I guess that's why Dan had that "edge", if you will. But, I feel like that's all Dan is via "geographically desirable". He could've gone on a business trip instead of an entire move, to help alleviate any stress on Holly's surgery, and he could've come back. Even so, S2E2 "Morality Bites" sets Piper & Leo up as a romantic pairing, immediately after the bank guy but then S2E3 "The Painted World" comes and Burge is immediately pushing for Piper & Dan? Make it make sense! An idea just popped into my head now with a question that has never been discussed I don't think on this board. What killed/ruined the show more longterm: Not killing off removing Leo after S1/and never letting the whitelighter/Elder mythology become a bigger part of the series moving forward or having Prue killed off/Shannen fired after S3? Varying threads have been made (not this specific) about when the show became "ruined" for other people, and the best one I can think of is the general one (which I did bump up, recently) is the When Did Charmed Get its Jump the Shark Moment, as everyone has their own interpretation of it. could've been based on Connie's own family experiences or one of her two older sisters who were the first to have a child. I do know the Halliwells are supposed to be based off of Burge's sisters. Which I did present this poll to my husband, and he said the show under Burge's rule feels like a "wish fulfillment" rather than a "Made for TV" show which he feels Kern's agenda fits that mold better, and I actually have to agree with that. And, my husband is not as obsessed with the show, as I am LOL Nor, do I believe he knows that Burge based the main characters off of her own sisters, so it's pretty telling if he can figure that out based off of the episodes presented to him, but I digress. I'm certain Kern was the founder of the Whitelighter/Elder lore and maybe that's why he got story credit. But Sheryl teleplayed his parts. Also because he and Sheryl worked on 'Wicca Envy" together too, although Kern got story credit for it only. No, Kern is credited for the Teleplay of S1E10 "Wicca Envy", as well. It's S1E14 "Secrets & Guys" where Kern is ONLY credited for JUST the Story. Sheryl is credited for ONLY the Teleplays in BOTH S1E10 "Wicca Envy" and S1E14 "Secrets & Guys". I've never seen a Piper/Josh fan before. Congratulations, I've met my first in you. What is it about them you like? Yay! So, I like Josh for the same reason I like Jack for Prue. Josh feels more like "Jack" (somebody, somewhere, I can't remember where, said Josh is "another Andy", um no?), to me but a better fit and mold for Piper. He can help relax her and not have her feel so anxious, all of the time. Whereas, Dan would apply too much stress and pressure to Piper. Josh seemed very gentle with Piper, even when Piper was rejecting him. He's the perfect patient pursuer, for Piper. And, I think would be more open into magic due to the house's history and learning from the professor (Beth?) about it. He didn't seem too weirded out about it and probably would've reacted to it, similarly to Andy. Clearly, you really think so deep about it. I think a little too much about this. Just kidding. No, you know writing patterns better than me. I assume you do this for more than just Charmed? Funny enough, I never really cared who wrote what and who directed which episode UNTIL joining this board. This board seems WAY more into it than other fandoms I've been a part of, so I began paying attention MORE to who's being credited as the "writer", "director", "producer", etc., and all that fun stuff, now. That's how I knew Kern has been credited as "executive producer" since S1E1 "Something Wicca This Way Comes" because I began actually reading those, now to join in on all these "which writer/director do you like more?" threads LOL Unrelated to Charmed, I (also) have a Movie Night group I'm a part of, where we just watch movies, and I've been trying to pay attention to those names, as well, and I come to find familiar names in some of them LOL One of my Movie Buff friends was dumbfounded, when I admitted to not caring about who wrote what and who directed where LOL But, now (because of these boards) I've been paying attention, now to all the texts on the screen. Which is how I (also) knew the band playing in S3E6 "Primrose Empath" was NEVER credited. I kept trying to figure out their name, but that episode itself is unhelpful LOL And ever since I began paying attention to these things, I've been curious if my favorite episodes lean towards a particular writer, and the answer is "no". And, I like that because it shows the unbiasness of my enjoyment. There are Burge episodes I like and Burge episodes, I don't like. And, Kern episodes I do like, and Kern episodes I don't like. Regardless of who are they are as people, its the content that should matter. You know, separate the art from the artist thing 😝 Your other thread talking about Andy and what we lost when he was killed. Imagine the show if it killed Leo and kept Andy moving forward. Since Kern likely set up the whitelighter mythology, I'm sure he demanded he stay. Oh yes, I imagine "if Andy was still around", all the time. How weird it must be for Andy, when Prue turns into a Man, for the S2E5 "She's a Man, Baby, a Man!" episode 😆 And, yes, Kern probably worked really hard to have Leo stay. And, also Holly. I heard somewhere that Holly was another Leo supporter (or, at least, a Brian Krause supporter) and advocating for him to stay in the show, as well. I think the show suffered from too many people pulling it in too many different directions, and we can all clearly see that LOL
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Post by greta on Jul 31, 2023 18:59:21 GMT -5
Decided to turn this into Keepers's way of replying like the other thread. Just cause It'll take too long to use the quoting method and I want to separate a number of your answers from before. LOL ---------------------------------- GRETA: could've been based on Connie's own family experiences or one of her two older sisters who were the first to have a child. AAEIYN: I do know the Halliwells are supposed to be based off of Burge's sisters. Which I did present this poll to my husband, and he said the show under Burge's rule feels like a "wish fulfillment" rather than a "Made for TV" show which he feels Kern's agenda fits that mold better, and I actually have to agree with that. And, my husband is not as obsessed with the show, as I am LOL Nor, do I believe he knows that Burge based the main characters off of her own sisters, so it's pretty telling if he can figure that out based off of the episodes presented to him, but I digress. GRETA: That's a very interesting take. Kern was showrunner for other shows before Charmed like "Lois and Clark" so I see why he'd be more "Made for TV" and know how to mold better, even if we disagree with most of his decisions. LOL speaking of Connie, I checked her IMDb, and apparently she was showrunner for another show called Savannah (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115346/?ref_=nm_flmg_t_13_wr) Follows the lives of three best friends: Reese, Peyton and Lane. The three women grew up together in Savannah, Georgia. Sound familiar. She likes making shows following three women. AAEIYN: ----------------------------------------------------- GRETA: I've never seen a Piper/Josh fan before. Congratulations, I've met my first in you. What is it about them you like? AAEIYN: Yay! So, I like Josh for the same reason I like Jack for Prue. Josh feels more like "Jack" (somebody, somewhere, I can't remember where, said Josh is "another Andy", um no?), to me but a better fit and mold for Piper. He can help relax her and not have her feel so anxious, all of the time. Whereas, Dan would apply too much stress and pressure to Piper. Josh seemed very gentle with Piper, even when Piper was rejecting him. He's the perfect patient pursuer, for Piper. And, I think would be more open into magic due to the house's history and learning from the professor (Beth?) about it. He didn't seem too weirded out about it and probably would've reacted to it, similarly to Andy. GRETA: Yeah Dan did stress her too much. Josh was very gentle and patient with her. I do love them in "When Bad Warlocks Go Good" on their date. I do see him being very open to magic, for all the reasons you mentioned. He already knows the house's history. He'd be an asset to her and the Charmed Ones in the longrun with him being a professor into architectural history. That would offer some interesting storylines. AAEIYN: ------------------------------- GRETA: Clearly, you really think so deep about it. I think a little too much about this. Just kidding. No, you know writing patterns better than me. I assume you do this for more than just Charmed? [/span]AAEIYN: Funny enough, I never really cared who wrote what and who directed which episode UNTIL joining this board. This board seems WAY more into it than other fandoms I've been a part of, so I began paying attention MORE to who's being credited as the "writer", "director", "producer", etc., and all that fun stuff, now. That's how I knew Kern has been credited as "executive producer" since S1E1 "Something Wicca This Way Comes" because I began actually reading those, now to join in on all these "which writer/director do you like more?" threads LOL GRETA: Yeah, they really are so into it. I don't really pay attention that deep, but from memory or knowing some of the names. I couldn't tell you half the writers names for S7-S8 other than Kern of course. AAEIYN: --------------------------- AAEIYN: Unrelated to Charmed, I (also) have a Movie Night group I'm a part of, where we just watch movies, and I've been trying to pay attention to those names, as well, and I come to find familiar names in some of them LOL One of my Movie Buff friends was dumbfounded, when I admitted to not caring about who wrote what and who directed where LOL But, now (because of these boards) I've been paying attention, now to all the texts on the screen. Which is how I (also) knew the band playing in S3E6 "Primrose Empath" was NEVER credited. I kept trying to figure out their name, but that episode itself is unhelpful LOL And ever since I began paying attention to these things, I've been curious if my favorite episodes lean towards a particular writer, and the answer is "no". And, I like that because it shows the unbiasness of my enjoyment. There are Burge episodes I like and Burge episodes, I don't like. And, Kern episodes I do like, and Kern episodes I don't like. Regardless of who are they are as people, its the content that should matter. You know, separate the art from the artist thing 😝 GRETA: I know what you mean by that. Like Joss Whedon being an a** doesn't mean you can't like the art. If you can't separate art from the person, then you may as well just stop watching entertainment. Your other thread talking about Andy and what we lost when he was killed. Imagine the show if it killed Leo and kept Andy moving forward. Since Kern likely set up the whitelighter mythology, I'm sure he demanded he stay. AAEIYN: Oh yes, I imagine "if Andy was still around", all the time. How weird it must be for Andy, when Prue turns into a Man, for the S2E5 "She's a Man, Baby, a Man!" episode 😆 GRETA: That would be awkward. I do see Andy figuring out that's Prue as a man. But I'd like to think this experience would help Prue understand Andy better. I can see Prue and Andy having some issues with dating again (assuming they got back together in early S2) but I somewhat feel like they wouldn't, but it would allow Prue to understand Andy better and push them closer together. I don't know. AAEIYN: ---------------------------- AAEIYN: And, yes, Kern probably worked really hard to have Leo stay. And, also Holly. I heard somewhere that Holly was another Leo supporter (or, at least, a Brian Krause supporter) and advocating for him to stay in the show, as well. GRETA: I heard that too. I really do think she was a supporter of him. I also think she protested giving Piper so many love interests throughout S1. AAEIYN: ------------------------ AAEIYN: I think the show suffered from too many people pulling it in too many different directions, and we can all clearly see that LOL GRETA: None of them could get along and compromise. Everyone had their own vision for the show and characters. I don't know where I read it at this board, but somewhere it was said that Nell Scovell was co-executive producer in S4, but she had issues with Kern and the episode they co-wrote, she was given lines in her script to re-write but Kern's parts were not. I was so very shocked and couldn't believe that Kern could've left after S4, and Nell could've become the new showrunner. But she'd have to still deal with Spelling and The WB. I don't think it would've worked out. She'd have likely left after S5, if she dared protested Spelling and the WB and stood up for the show, she'd be treated like Shannen and gotten fired too. Nothing could've saved this show because they'd forever be taking orders from the WB. AAEIYN:
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Aaeiyn
Whitelighter
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 4,745
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Post by Aaeiyn on Aug 14, 2023 18:28:36 GMT -5
I'm not ignoring you greta . I have nothing to add 'cause it would just be nothing of me agreeing with everything you said, and I didn't want to quote each section (or the whole thing) JUST to say "I agree" LOL Hence why I just hit the "Like" button and moved on. That being said, hopefully more voices would like to contribute to the discussion
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Aaeiyn
Whitelighter
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 4,745
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Post by Aaeiyn on Apr 22, 2024 12:13:05 GMT -5
Comparing and contrasting power balance and using my S1 Rank & S2 Rank method & positioning. I'm NOT counting S1E0 "Unaired Pilot", S1E14 "Secrets & Guys" nor S1E22 "Deja Vu all Over, Again", as 1) Burge is already credited for S1E1 "Something Wicca This Way Comes" & 2) BOTH Burge & Kern are credited for writing BOTH S1E14 "Secrets & Guys" & S1E22 "Deja Vu, all Over, Again". I'd rather focus on their individual writings. Though, some of them are with Sheryl J. Anderson and other writers, but I'd rather have that than critiquing BOTH Burge & Kern, together, when I want to review them, SEPARETLY, but I digress. Here are my findings: Constance M. BurgeS1E1 "Something Wicca This Way Comes"Piper Freeze Count: 2 Phoebe Premonition Count: 2 Prue TK Count: 11 Rank: 16 S1E5 "Dream Sorcerer"Piper Freeze Count: 1 Phoebe Premonition Count: 0 Prue TK Count: 1 Rank: 22 S2E3 "The Painted World"Piper Freeze Count: 5 Phoebe Premonition Count: 0 Phoebe Strength (Y/N): (Spell Only) Y Prue TK Count: 4 Rank: 16 (Story & Teleplay) S2E9 "Ms. Hellfire"Piper Freeze Count: 5 Phoebe Premonition Count: 0 Phoebe Strength (Y/N): 0 Prue TK Count: 2 (Altered State of Mind) 2 Prue AP Count: 2 (Alter State of Mind) 1 Rank: 20 (Story & Teleplay) S2E20 "Astral Monkey"Piper Freeze Count: 1 Phoebe Premonition Count: 1 Phoebe Strength (Y/N): N Prue TK Count: (Failed) 1 Prue AP Count: 0 Rank: 14 Brad KernS1E2 "I've Got You Under My Skin"Piper Freeze Count: 1 Phoebe Premonition Count: 3 Prue TK Count: 5 Rank: 8 (Teleplay & Story) S1E10 "Wicca Envy"Piper Freeze Count: 10 Phoebe Premonition Count: (Fake/Forced) 1 Prue TK Count: 1 Rank:18 S1E20 "The Power of Two"Piper Freeze Count: 0 Phoebe Premonition Count: 2 Phoebe Strength (Y/N): Y Prue TK Count: 2 Rank: 19 S2E1 "Witch Trial"Piper Freeze Count: 4 Phoebe Premonition Count: 1 Phoebe Strength (Y/N): N Prue TK Count: 1 Rank: 13 (Teleplay) S2E19 "Ex Libris"Piper Freeze Count: 1 Phoebe Premonition Count: 1 Phoebe Strength (Y/N): N Prue TK Count: 1 Prue AP Count: 1 Rank: 5 S2E22 "Be Careful What You Witch For"Piper Freeze Count: 2 Phoebe Premonition Count: 1 Phoebe Strength (Y/N): Y Prue TK Count: 0 Prue AP Count: 0 Rank: 21
It seems like I tend to lean more towards Brad Kern episodes than Constance M. Burge. Half of Kern's episodes have great power balance, while Burge doesn't do too well on power balancing. I'll have to give Kern credit for remembering there's THREE sisters and not just ONE LOL
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