forbuss
Witch
currently watching season seven
Posts: 1,743
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Post by forbuss on Dec 22, 2023 15:10:46 GMT -5
But a lot of the responses from folks on this thread seem harsh towards Alyssa. I agree that Shannen can speak her truth and say anything she wants - but Alyssa also has that right and she is allowed to speak with a therapist/mediator and tell her experience. Perhaps Alyssa had good intentions and was trying to get things resolved but they couldn't resolve if Shannen/Holly didn't want to talk about it. My views on Milano have nothing to do with the show, including this drama. Milano has flip flopped her stances regarding other issues, that I just don't believe anything she says. I agree with McGowan that Milano is a lie. Which things has she flip flopped on? Genuinely curious haha.
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Aaeiyn
Whitelighter
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 4,744
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Post by Aaeiyn on Dec 22, 2023 16:02:06 GMT -5
My views on Milano have nothing to do with the show, including this drama. Milano has flip flopped her stances regarding other issues, that I just don't believe anything she says. I agree with McGowan that Milano is a lie. Which things has she flip flopped on? Genuinely curious haha. It deals with her political positions. First, she's "sex positive", for women. But, now thinks women are "oversexualized". Second, she wants to persecute people based off of allegations. But as soon as a buddy of her's gets those same accusations, she believes in "due process". Pick a lane!
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Aaeiyn
Whitelighter
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 4,744
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Post by Aaeiyn on Dec 22, 2023 16:10:27 GMT -5
But, again, I love her character Phoebe, in Charmed lol
I just can't stand the actress, as a person.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?" Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,903
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 23, 2023 1:19:06 GMT -5
From what I remember reading, for Holly and Alyssa, there were two contracts - one for S1-4 and one for S5-8. They fired Shannen at the end of S3 because Holly still had a year on her contract and couldn't quit without being sued. Getting to be a producer is what got her to sign her second contract. I'm not sure how they did Rose's. I wish she'd only signed on for one year (S4) and then didn't want to continue. All of this is reminding me of a TV Guide article that came out during the summer between S3 and S4 and shows how they were feeling at the time. It's why I believed what Holly said while not believing Shannen when she tried to convince us that she had quit rather than being fired. I really didn't believe any of their spins, and until we hear Alyssa's side, I'm not sure if I totally believe the podcast. Here's that article: AS ALYSSA MILANO AND HOLLY MARIE COMBS FINALLY COME CLEAN ABOUT SHANNEN DOHERTY, THE QUESTION REMAINS: CAN A RECONJURED CHARMED STILL WORK MAGIC?
Shannen Doherty may be long gone, but she hasn't been exorcised.
It's mid July, two months after the 30-year-old actress abruptly announced her departure from WB's Charmed, yet a giant poster featuring her still hangs in executive producer Brad Kern's office. The wayward with stands front and center between her original costars on the sisters-in-sorcery hit, Holly Marie Combs and Lori Rom. Rom, now on Sci Fi Channel's The Chronicle, was cast as youngest sib Phoebe in the pilot before producer Aaron Spelling replaced her—poof!—with his Melrose Place tenant Alyssa Milano. It's a striking image, impossible to miss, and Milano takes note of it the moment she arrives.
"Maybe witch No. 5 will be our lucky charm," she jokes, referring to Rose McGowan, 25, Doherty's replacement of sorts, who joins the comely coven this fall (Thursdays, 9 P.M. ET) as spirited half sister Paige. Milano settles onto a black leather couch and tries to keep the mood as bright as the lemon-colored lace-up top she's paired with snug low-rise jeans.
"You know, I have a dentist appointment this afternoon," she says. "I really wouldn't mind missing it, so feel free to keep me here as long as you'd like." But one look at the way Milano, 28, is perched tensely on the edge of her seat, drinking coffee from a jumbo mug, and you'd think she'd rather have a root canal than enduring an interview.
And not without reason: When Doherty left her Charmed role as eldest sister Prue last spring after three seasons, it was amid rumors of a bitter rivalry with Milano, something Doherty has not denied. The tabloid magnet's hasty exit seemed like déjà vu—after all, it was the second time in a decade she had bid adieu to a Spelling show after reports of friction with costars. (The first was in 1994, when she left Beverly Hills, 90210.) Her departure has left the future success of Charmed—which returns with a two-hour premiere September 27—in question at a time when WB is counting on it to continue enchanting viewers now that crown jewel Buffy the Vampire Slayer has pulled up stakes and moved to rival UPN.
Charmed hardly seemed jinxed when it debuted in the fall of 1998. The publicity surrounding Doherty's reunion with former boss Spelling helped the supernatural soap conjure up the highest-rated series debut in WB's history, while its modern mix of glamour and girl power warded off Dawson's Creek and Buffy, making it the network's second most popular show (after 7th Heaven, also produced by Spelling).
By all accounts, things were down right sisterly off-screen as well. "This is the best job I've ever had because we bonded immediately," Milano gushed about her costars in a February 1999 interview. "We have so much in common." For one, all three had grown up bewitching audiences on TV: Doherty on the short-lived spin-off Little House: A New Beginning, then on 90210; Milano on the hit comedy Who's the Boss?; and Combs on David E. Kelly's quirky Picket Fences. When Milano married rocker Cinjun Tate in January 1999, Doherty and Combs even served as bridesmaids. (Milano and Tate have since split.)
"We were very close for the first couple of years," says Combs, 27, who plays middle sister Piper. "It's not like we just worked together and went home."
But trouble was undeniably brewing between Doherty and Milano by the time production started on the third season last summer. The fawning quotes to the press had stopped, as had the costars' time together away from the set. As Milano puts it, "I wasn't going to call [Shannen] on the weekend to go hang out."
Rumors quickly swirled that Doherty was resentful of Milano's growing popularity, which translated into several endorsement deals, including one with MCI. But those close to the situation claim it was more complicated than that. "There were no angels," Combs says. "We all had our bad days. We all [got] stressed out."
That's hardly surprising, says executive producer Kern. "People on a TV set work together 12 to 14 hours a day, five days a week. Rarely have I seen cast members stay or even become best friends."
Adding to the friction, says Combs, was the stars' growing frustration with the show's direction. "We were in rut, where we felt like we were doing the same episodes over and over again," she says.
Doherty, in particular, "wanted to make the show bigger and better and stretch her boundaries," says Combs, who has been friends with the actress for eight years, and still speaks frequently with her. "I'd see her in the morning and she'd be like, 'OK, how are we going to fix this scene?' She was really dedicated and she didn't have a lot of patience for anyone [she felt] wasn't."
Whatever broke the spell, "we definitely didn't get along," admits Milano. "Shannen and I are very different people, and I think it's almost like a roommate. If you spend that much time with someone and there are differences anyway, you're not always going to get along."
Both Milano and Combs deny tabloid reports that Doherty would only speak to them when the cameras were rolling. But Milano acknowledges that she and her former costar could get downright witchy: "There were times when I'd come in and say, 'Good morning, Shannen,' and she didn't say anything to me. And there were times when she'd come in and say, 'Good morning, Alyssa,' and I wouldn't say anything to her."
In an attempt to defuse the situation, Paramount, the studio that produces Charmed, eventually sent a mediator to the set, something Combs said made things worse. "First of all, it was none of his business," she says. "And we certainly didn't want him reporting our girlie problems back to Paramount."
"The problems we had weren't things some big company mediator could fix," Combs adds quietly. "They needed to be fixed between us [by] going into [each other's] trailers and saying, 'All right, I don't like it when you do this.' Or, 'I didn't like it when you said this.'"
That apparently never happened. Doherty has contended that Milano eventually got fed up and issued producers an ultimatum—either Doherty walked or she would—but Milano insists that it isn't true. "I never even thought about doing that," she says. "I couldn't sleep knowing I backed out of something I'd committed to."
Instead, according to several sources, it was Doherty who approached Paramount executives last December and asked to be released from her contract. "[She] was like, 'This is getting too problematic. Just let me go,'" says Combs. "She didn't want to be the bad ogress again. She wanted to exit gracefully."
But the studio wouldn't have it. Continues Combs: "They stamped their feet and said, 'No, you cannot leave. We will sue you,'" (Both Paramount and Spelling declined to comment.)
Doherty's eventual dismissal, then, came as a surprise. And the form Combs says it took—a phone call to Doherty's lawyer after the embattled actress had flown to Winnipeg, Canada, to start shooting Another Day, USA's upcoming Francis Ford Coppola TV-movie with Charmed costar, Julian McMahon—still clearly angers her. "How do you go from directing the season finale to being [given] a pink slip over the phone, when [you're] in another country, at eight at night?" Combs says. "It was really a tacky way to go about it."
"I'm sure I'm going to get many phone calls about this," she adds, "but you know what? I don't care. [The producers] know I was not happy with how it was handled. You just don't do that to a person, [especially] a person who has basically created two hit shows for you."
While no one's officially saying why Doherty was ultimately cut loose, a series insider says, "It eventually became clear that [either Doherty or Milano] had to go." And Doherty may have been the safer choice, according to Stacey Lynn Koerner, an industry analyst with Initiative Media: "Alyssa is just as popular, if not more so, than Shannen. And when Shannen left 90210, the series did just fine."
Whether Charmed can still work its magic without Doherty remains to be seen. But WB and Kern are putting on a brave face. "If we'd lost two girls, then I'd be nervous," he says. "But nobody would've been OK with making the change if they were [worried]. That's why I keep that poster [with the pilot's original threesome]. I believe the show has become bigger than any one of us."
Adds WB entertainment president Jordan Levin: "We've got two really great stars in Alyssa and Holly. Adding Rose to the cast brings a whole new dynamic that's edgy and compelling." McGowan pops up in the season premiere, which includes a funeral for Doherty's Prue, who was left for dead after battling a demon in last spring's finale. Another plot twist: Julian McMahon, who plays Milano's baddie boyfriend Cole, has recently begun dating Doherty. But he shrugs off any awkwardness with Milano: "To be honest, I'm usually pretty oblivious to that stuff."
Milano, too, claims she's put her issues with Doherty to rest. "I have a lot of respect for her," says Milano of her former costar, with whom she has not spoken since their last day on the set. "I think she's incredibly smart and talented, and I wish her happiness, love, success."
But closure hasn't come as easily to Combs. While she says she still has a good relationship with Milano, she felt "a definite sense of loss" when she returned to the set in July. "In a way," Combs says, "I have to treat this as a brand-new job, a totally different show I'm doing, because if I [don't], it's going to be a really hard year." Now I'm not really sure what to believe. It's why I prefer just concentrating on Prue, Piper, Phoebe and Paige and ignoring anything to do with Shannen, Holly, Alyssa and Rose, the reason why I haven't listened to the latest podcast episode. I will once she discusses something besides Charmed.
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wiccawonder
Innocent
Currently rewatching S2-S3!
Posts: 85
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Post by wiccawonder on Dec 23, 2023 8:05:51 GMT -5
I totally agree that it's her podcast and she can discuss whatever topics or experiences she wants to. I do understand she wants to "clear the air" as this has followed the stars of the show/the show basically forever. I would just like to hear Alyssa's side but I doubt Alyssa will comment or respond in any way. I also want to note that this appears to be second hand news. I don't think it's bad if Alyssa was talking to a therapist on set. A lot of what Holly is saying is what Aaron Spelling told her and that may not be the truth. Clearly something or a series of things happened as even Holly acknowledges that any conflict or tension happened off set in trailers. After listening to the entire podcast I think Holly/Shannen were just saying Shannen shouldn't have been fired because whatever was happening (in their opinion) was not impacting their work/the show/being on set. I also wonder what may have happened if Holly/Shannen did agree to speak with the therapist/mediator. Maybe they could have gotten all the women on the same page to prevent a situation where the producers felt the show couldn't continue without firing someone. But a lot of the responses from folks on this thread seem harsh towards Alyssa. I agree that Shannen can speak her truth and say anything she wants - but Alyssa also has that right and she is allowed to speak with a therapist/mediator and tell her experience. Perhaps Alyssa had good intentions and was trying to get things resolved but they couldn't resolve if Shannen/Holly didn't want to talk about it. All I will really add to this is Shannen openly discusses on her podcast and reports that she can’t recall saying anything aggressive or nasty to Alyssa on or off set in trailers. Shannen has also confirmed that she has accepted what has happened and was merely giving her view and knowledge of what really happened as she was tired of lying and saying she quit when she didn’t. I agree that Alyssa has a right to see a therapist/meditator, of course. She has a right to discuss her experiences and how she was feeling. But taking it as far as suing the company you work for unless they fire a lead actress, is not okay.
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wiccawonder
Innocent
Currently rewatching S2-S3!
Posts: 85
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Post by wiccawonder on Dec 23, 2023 8:07:19 GMT -5
Which things has she flip flopped on? Genuinely curious haha. It deals with her political positions. First, she's "sex positive", for women. But, now thinks women are "oversexualized". Second, she wants to persecute people based off of allegations. But as soon as a buddy of her's gets those same accusations, she believes in "due process". Pick a lane! Right. Massive flip flopper when it comes to her political positions. Rose is right, Alyssa is a lie and I don’t like her either.
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wiccawonder
Innocent
Currently rewatching S2-S3!
Posts: 85
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Post by wiccawonder on Dec 23, 2023 8:09:19 GMT -5
From what I remember reading, for Holly and Alyssa, there were two contracts - one for S1-4 and one for S5-8. They fired Shannen at the end of S3 because Holly still had a year on her contract and couldn't quit without being sued. Getting to be a producer is what got her to sign her second contract. I'm not sure how they did Rose's. I wish she'd only signed on for one year (S4) and then didn't want to continue. All of this is reminding me of a TV Guide article that came out during the summer between S3 and S4 and shows how they were feeling at the time. It's why I believed what Holly said while not believing Shannen when she tried to convince us that she had quit rather than being fired. I really didn't believe any of their spins, and until we hear Alyssa's side, I'm not sure if I totally believe the podcast. Here's that article: AS ALYSSA MILANO AND HOLLY MARIE COMBS FINALLY COME CLEAN ABOUT SHANNEN DOHERTY, THE QUESTION REMAINS: CAN A RECONJURED CHARMED STILL WORK MAGIC?
Shannen Doherty may be long gone, but she hasn't been exorcised.
It's mid July, two months after the 30-year-old actress abruptly announced her departure from WB's Charmed, yet a giant poster featuring her still hangs in executive producer Brad Kern's office. The wayward with stands front and center between her original costars on the sisters-in-sorcery hit, Holly Marie Combs and Lori Rom. Rom, now on Sci Fi Channel's The Chronicle, was cast as youngest sib Phoebe in the pilot before producer Aaron Spelling replaced her—poof!—with his Melrose Place tenant Alyssa Milano. It's a striking image, impossible to miss, and Milano takes note of it the moment she arrives.
"Maybe witch No. 5 will be our lucky charm," she jokes, referring to Rose McGowan, 25, Doherty's replacement of sorts, who joins the comely coven this fall (Thursdays, 9 P.M. ET) as spirited half sister Paige. Milano settles onto a black leather couch and tries to keep the mood as bright as the lemon-colored lace-up top she's paired with snug low-rise jeans.
"You know, I have a dentist appointment this afternoon," she says. "I really wouldn't mind missing it, so feel free to keep me here as long as you'd like." But one look at the way Milano, 28, is perched tensely on the edge of her seat, drinking coffee from a jumbo mug, and you'd think she'd rather have a root canal than enduring an interview.
And not without reason: When Doherty left her Charmed role as eldest sister Prue last spring after three seasons, it was amid rumors of a bitter rivalry with Milano, something Doherty has not denied. The tabloid magnet's hasty exit seemed like déjà vu—after all, it was the second time in a decade she had bid adieu to a Spelling show after reports of friction with costars. (The first was in 1994, when she left Beverly Hills, 90210.) Her departure has left the future success of Charmed—which returns with a two-hour premiere September 27—in question at a time when WB is counting on it to continue enchanting viewers now that crown jewel Buffy the Vampire Slayer has pulled up stakes and moved to rival UPN.
Charmed hardly seemed jinxed when it debuted in the fall of 1998. The publicity surrounding Doherty's reunion with former boss Spelling helped the supernatural soap conjure up the highest-rated series debut in WB's history, while its modern mix of glamour and girl power warded off Dawson's Creek and Buffy, making it the network's second most popular show (after 7th Heaven, also produced by Spelling).
By all accounts, things were down right sisterly off-screen as well. "This is the best job I've ever had because we bonded immediately," Milano gushed about her costars in a February 1999 interview. "We have so much in common." For one, all three had grown up bewitching audiences on TV: Doherty on the short-lived spin-off Little House: A New Beginning, then on 90210; Milano on the hit comedy Who's the Boss?; and Combs on David E. Kelly's quirky Picket Fences. When Milano married rocker Cinjun Tate in January 1999, Doherty and Combs even served as bridesmaids. (Milano and Tate have since split.)
"We were very close for the first couple of years," says Combs, 27, who plays middle sister Piper. "It's not like we just worked together and went home."
But trouble was undeniably brewing between Doherty and Milano by the time production started on the third season last summer. The fawning quotes to the press had stopped, as had the costars' time together away from the set. As Milano puts it, "I wasn't going to call [Shannen] on the weekend to go hang out."
Rumors quickly swirled that Doherty was resentful of Milano's growing popularity, which translated into several endorsement deals, including one with MCI. But those close to the situation claim it was more complicated than that. "There were no angels," Combs says. "We all had our bad days. We all [got] stressed out."
That's hardly surprising, says executive producer Kern. "People on a TV set work together 12 to 14 hours a day, five days a week. Rarely have I seen cast members stay or even become best friends."
Adding to the friction, says Combs, was the stars' growing frustration with the show's direction. "We were in rut, where we felt like we were doing the same episodes over and over again," she says.
Doherty, in particular, "wanted to make the show bigger and better and stretch her boundaries," says Combs, who has been friends with the actress for eight years, and still speaks frequently with her. "I'd see her in the morning and she'd be like, 'OK, how are we going to fix this scene?' She was really dedicated and she didn't have a lot of patience for anyone [she felt] wasn't."
Whatever broke the spell, "we definitely didn't get along," admits Milano. "Shannen and I are very different people, and I think it's almost like a roommate. If you spend that much time with someone and there are differences anyway, you're not always going to get along."
Both Milano and Combs deny tabloid reports that Doherty would only speak to them when the cameras were rolling. But Milano acknowledges that she and her former costar could get downright witchy: "There were times when I'd come in and say, 'Good morning, Shannen,' and she didn't say anything to me. And there were times when she'd come in and say, 'Good morning, Alyssa,' and I wouldn't say anything to her."
In an attempt to defuse the situation, Paramount, the studio that produces Charmed, eventually sent a mediator to the set, something Combs said made things worse. "First of all, it was none of his business," she says. "And we certainly didn't want him reporting our girlie problems back to Paramount."
"The problems we had weren't things some big company mediator could fix," Combs adds quietly. "They needed to be fixed between us [by] going into [each other's] trailers and saying, 'All right, I don't like it when you do this.' Or, 'I didn't like it when you said this.'"
That apparently never happened. Doherty has contended that Milano eventually got fed up and issued producers an ultimatum—either Doherty walked or she would—but Milano insists that it isn't true. "I never even thought about doing that," she says. "I couldn't sleep knowing I backed out of something I'd committed to."
Instead, according to several sources, it was Doherty who approached Paramount executives last December and asked to be released from her contract. "[She] was like, 'This is getting too problematic. Just let me go,'" says Combs. "She didn't want to be the bad ogress again. She wanted to exit gracefully."
But the studio wouldn't have it. Continues Combs: "They stamped their feet and said, 'No, you cannot leave. We will sue you,'" (Both Paramount and Spelling declined to comment.)
Doherty's eventual dismissal, then, came as a surprise. And the form Combs says it took—a phone call to Doherty's lawyer after the embattled actress had flown to Winnipeg, Canada, to start shooting Another Day, USA's upcoming Francis Ford Coppola TV-movie with Charmed costar, Julian McMahon—still clearly angers her. "How do you go from directing the season finale to being [given] a pink slip over the phone, when [you're] in another country, at eight at night?" Combs says. "It was really a tacky way to go about it."
"I'm sure I'm going to get many phone calls about this," she adds, "but you know what? I don't care. [The producers] know I was not happy with how it was handled. You just don't do that to a person, [especially] a person who has basically created two hit shows for you."
While no one's officially saying why Doherty was ultimately cut loose, a series insider says, "It eventually became clear that [either Doherty or Milano] had to go." And Doherty may have been the safer choice, according to Stacey Lynn Koerner, an industry analyst with Initiative Media: "Alyssa is just as popular, if not more so, than Shannen. And when Shannen left 90210, the series did just fine."
Whether Charmed can still work its magic without Doherty remains to be seen. But WB and Kern are putting on a brave face. "If we'd lost two girls, then I'd be nervous," he says. "But nobody would've been OK with making the change if they were [worried]. That's why I keep that poster [with the pilot's original threesome]. I believe the show has become bigger than any one of us."
Adds WB entertainment president Jordan Levin: "We've got two really great stars in Alyssa and Holly. Adding Rose to the cast brings a whole new dynamic that's edgy and compelling." McGowan pops up in the season premiere, which includes a funeral for Doherty's Prue, who was left for dead after battling a demon in last spring's finale. Another plot twist: Julian McMahon, who plays Milano's baddie boyfriend Cole, has recently begun dating Doherty. But he shrugs off any awkwardness with Milano: "To be honest, I'm usually pretty oblivious to that stuff."
Milano, too, claims she's put her issues with Doherty to rest. "I have a lot of respect for her," says Milano of her former costar, with whom she has not spoken since their last day on the set. "I think she's incredibly smart and talented, and I wish her happiness, love, success."
But closure hasn't come as easily to Combs. While she says she still has a good relationship with Milano, she felt "a definite sense of loss" when she returned to the set in July. "In a way," Combs says, "I have to treat this as a brand-new job, a totally different show I'm doing, because if I [don't], it's going to be a really hard year." Now I'm not really sure what to believe. It's why I prefer just concentrating on Prue, Piper, Phoebe and Paige and ignoring anything to do with Shannen, Holly, Alyssa and Rose, the reason why I haven't listened to the latest podcast episode. I will once she discusses something besides Charmed. I think we would all love to hear Alyssa’s side once and for all. But she wouldn’t never say anything and would take it to her grave, let’s be honest? I’m inclined to believe Holly and Shannen, they both are confirming the same thing and we have Rose also explaining her bad experiences with Alyssa. Like they all can’t be wrong, can they?
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rebooted
Witch
Started watching at 12
Posts: 1,634
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Post by rebooted on Dec 23, 2023 14:12:19 GMT -5
Could someone turn this into a potion analogy.
Like a mixture that just blew up in all their faces?
Thats the simplist form I to dilute this dispute down to!
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?" Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,903
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 23, 2023 18:15:10 GMT -5
Personally I don't think Alyssa would ever tell her side of the story because she probably know that whatever she says, most fans wouldn't believe her. With Shannen in such poor health, it's much more likely that fans would believe her and Holly, even though I personally think that all three were probably at least partially in the wrong.
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Post by West on Dec 23, 2023 18:31:39 GMT -5
I don't expect Alyssa to ever say anything either. Not a good look to go against a woman with stage 4 cancer. Alyssa would want to protect her reputation especially how political she is. She'll just keep out of it. Alyssa's mom did say something a week or so as someone here pointed out in a post. She denied Shannen being refused to see Holly in hospital but hasn't said anything since regarding the firing of Shannen.
At the end of the day, It doesn't bother me what happened 20 years ago, isn't going to affect me loving Prue, Piper, Phoebe and Paige any less than I do now.
I do hope Shannen's podcast will talk more about non Charmed stuff, so the media can start focusing on that than the Charmed drama.
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Post by West on Dec 23, 2023 18:35:32 GMT -5
From what I remember reading, for Holly and Alyssa, there were two contracts - one for S1-4 and one for S5-8. They fired Shannen at the end of S3 because Holly still had a year on her contract and couldn't quit without being sued. Getting to be a producer is what got her to sign her second contract. I'm not sure how they did Rose's. I wish she'd only signed on for one year (S4) and then didn't want to continue. All of this is reminding me of a TV Guide article that came out during the summer between S3 and S4 and shows how they were feeling at the time. It's why I believed what Holly said while not believing Shannen when she tried to convince us that she had quit rather than being fired. I really didn't believe any of their spins, and until we hear Alyssa's side, I'm not sure if I totally believe the podcast. Here's that article: AS ALYSSA MILANO AND HOLLY MARIE COMBS FINALLY COME CLEAN ABOUT SHANNEN DOHERTY, THE QUESTION REMAINS: CAN A RECONJURED CHARMED STILL WORK MAGIC?
Shannen Doherty may be long gone, but she hasn't been exorcised.
It's mid July, two months after the 30-year-old actress abruptly announced her departure from WB's Charmed, yet a giant poster featuring her still hangs in executive producer Brad Kern's office. The wayward with stands front and center between her original costars on the sisters-in-sorcery hit, Holly Marie Combs and Lori Rom. Rom, now on Sci Fi Channel's The Chronicle, was cast as youngest sib Phoebe in the pilot before producer Aaron Spelling replaced her—poof!—with his Melrose Place tenant Alyssa Milano. It's a striking image, impossible to miss, and Milano takes note of it the moment she arrives.
"Maybe witch No. 5 will be our lucky charm," she jokes, referring to Rose McGowan, 25, Doherty's replacement of sorts, who joins the comely coven this fall (Thursdays, 9 P.M. ET) as spirited half sister Paige. Milano settles onto a black leather couch and tries to keep the mood as bright as the lemon-colored lace-up top she's paired with snug low-rise jeans.
"You know, I have a dentist appointment this afternoon," she says. "I really wouldn't mind missing it, so feel free to keep me here as long as you'd like." But one look at the way Milano, 28, is perched tensely on the edge of her seat, drinking coffee from a jumbo mug, and you'd think she'd rather have a root canal than enduring an interview.
And not without reason: When Doherty left her Charmed role as eldest sister Prue last spring after three seasons, it was amid rumors of a bitter rivalry with Milano, something Doherty has not denied. The tabloid magnet's hasty exit seemed like déjà vu—after all, it was the second time in a decade she had bid adieu to a Spelling show after reports of friction with costars. (The first was in 1994, when she left Beverly Hills, 90210.) Her departure has left the future success of Charmed—which returns with a two-hour premiere September 27—in question at a time when WB is counting on it to continue enchanting viewers now that crown jewel Buffy the Vampire Slayer has pulled up stakes and moved to rival UPN.
Charmed hardly seemed jinxed when it debuted in the fall of 1998. The publicity surrounding Doherty's reunion with former boss Spelling helped the supernatural soap conjure up the highest-rated series debut in WB's history, while its modern mix of glamour and girl power warded off Dawson's Creek and Buffy, making it the network's second most popular show (after 7th Heaven, also produced by Spelling).
By all accounts, things were down right sisterly off-screen as well. "This is the best job I've ever had because we bonded immediately," Milano gushed about her costars in a February 1999 interview. "We have so much in common." For one, all three had grown up bewitching audiences on TV: Doherty on the short-lived spin-off Little House: A New Beginning, then on 90210; Milano on the hit comedy Who's the Boss?; and Combs on David E. Kelly's quirky Picket Fences. When Milano married rocker Cinjun Tate in January 1999, Doherty and Combs even served as bridesmaids. (Milano and Tate have since split.)
"We were very close for the first couple of years," says Combs, 27, who plays middle sister Piper. "It's not like we just worked together and went home."
But trouble was undeniably brewing between Doherty and Milano by the time production started on the third season last summer. The fawning quotes to the press had stopped, as had the costars' time together away from the set. As Milano puts it, "I wasn't going to call [Shannen] on the weekend to go hang out."
Rumors quickly swirled that Doherty was resentful of Milano's growing popularity, which translated into several endorsement deals, including one with MCI. But those close to the situation claim it was more complicated than that. "There were no angels," Combs says. "We all had our bad days. We all [got] stressed out."
That's hardly surprising, says executive producer Kern. "People on a TV set work together 12 to 14 hours a day, five days a week. Rarely have I seen cast members stay or even become best friends."
Adding to the friction, says Combs, was the stars' growing frustration with the show's direction. "We were in rut, where we felt like we were doing the same episodes over and over again," she says.
Doherty, in particular, "wanted to make the show bigger and better and stretch her boundaries," says Combs, who has been friends with the actress for eight years, and still speaks frequently with her. "I'd see her in the morning and she'd be like, 'OK, how are we going to fix this scene?' She was really dedicated and she didn't have a lot of patience for anyone [she felt] wasn't."
Whatever broke the spell, "we definitely didn't get along," admits Milano. "Shannen and I are very different people, and I think it's almost like a roommate. If you spend that much time with someone and there are differences anyway, you're not always going to get along."
Both Milano and Combs deny tabloid reports that Doherty would only speak to them when the cameras were rolling. But Milano acknowledges that she and her former costar could get downright witchy: "There were times when I'd come in and say, 'Good morning, Shannen,' and she didn't say anything to me. And there were times when she'd come in and say, 'Good morning, Alyssa,' and I wouldn't say anything to her."
In an attempt to defuse the situation, Paramount, the studio that produces Charmed, eventually sent a mediator to the set, something Combs said made things worse. "First of all, it was none of his business," she says. "And we certainly didn't want him reporting our girlie problems back to Paramount."
"The problems we had weren't things some big company mediator could fix," Combs adds quietly. "They needed to be fixed between us [by] going into [each other's] trailers and saying, 'All right, I don't like it when you do this.' Or, 'I didn't like it when you said this.'"
That apparently never happened. Doherty has contended that Milano eventually got fed up and issued producers an ultimatum—either Doherty walked or she would—but Milano insists that it isn't true. "I never even thought about doing that," she says. "I couldn't sleep knowing I backed out of something I'd committed to."
Instead, according to several sources, it was Doherty who approached Paramount executives last December and asked to be released from her contract. "[She] was like, 'This is getting too problematic. Just let me go,'" says Combs. "She didn't want to be the bad ogress again. She wanted to exit gracefully."
But the studio wouldn't have it. Continues Combs: "They stamped their feet and said, 'No, you cannot leave. We will sue you,'" (Both Paramount and Spelling declined to comment.)
Doherty's eventual dismissal, then, came as a surprise. And the form Combs says it took—a phone call to Doherty's lawyer after the embattled actress had flown to Winnipeg, Canada, to start shooting Another Day, USA's upcoming Francis Ford Coppola TV-movie with Charmed costar, Julian McMahon—still clearly angers her. "How do you go from directing the season finale to being [given] a pink slip over the phone, when [you're] in another country, at eight at night?" Combs says. "It was really a tacky way to go about it."
"I'm sure I'm going to get many phone calls about this," she adds, "but you know what? I don't care. [The producers] know I was not happy with how it was handled. You just don't do that to a person, [especially] a person who has basically created two hit shows for you."
While no one's officially saying why Doherty was ultimately cut loose, a series insider says, "It eventually became clear that [either Doherty or Milano] had to go." And Doherty may have been the safer choice, according to Stacey Lynn Koerner, an industry analyst with Initiative Media: "Alyssa is just as popular, if not more so, than Shannen. And when Shannen left 90210, the series did just fine."
Whether Charmed can still work its magic without Doherty remains to be seen. But WB and Kern are putting on a brave face. "If we'd lost two girls, then I'd be nervous," he says. "But nobody would've been OK with making the change if they were [worried]. That's why I keep that poster [with the pilot's original threesome]. I believe the show has become bigger than any one of us."
Adds WB entertainment president Jordan Levin: "We've got two really great stars in Alyssa and Holly. Adding Rose to the cast brings a whole new dynamic that's edgy and compelling." McGowan pops up in the season premiere, which includes a funeral for Doherty's Prue, who was left for dead after battling a demon in last spring's finale. Another plot twist: Julian McMahon, who plays Milano's baddie boyfriend Cole, has recently begun dating Doherty. But he shrugs off any awkwardness with Milano: "To be honest, I'm usually pretty oblivious to that stuff."
Milano, too, claims she's put her issues with Doherty to rest. "I have a lot of respect for her," says Milano of her former costar, with whom she has not spoken since their last day on the set. "I think she's incredibly smart and talented, and I wish her happiness, love, success."
But closure hasn't come as easily to Combs. While she says she still has a good relationship with Milano, she felt "a definite sense of loss" when she returned to the set in July. "In a way," Combs says, "I have to treat this as a brand-new job, a totally different show I'm doing, because if I [don't], it's going to be a really hard year." Now I'm not really sure what to believe. It's why I prefer just concentrating on Prue, Piper, Phoebe and Paige and ignoring anything to do with Shannen, Holly, Alyssa and Rose, the reason why I haven't listened to the latest podcast episode. I will once she discusses something besides Charmed. I think we would all love to hear Alyssa’s side once and for all. But she wouldn’t never say anything and would take it to her grave, let’s be honest? I’m inclined to believe Holly and Shannen, they both are confirming the same thing and we have Rose also explaining her bad experiences with Alyssa. Like they all can’t be wrong, can they? Me either. I don't think she ever will. God forbid Shannen passes, no way she'll admit to it. She'll be trashed forever. Not a good. It goes against all she currently stands for with supporting women.
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Post by shay321 on Dec 24, 2023 6:46:48 GMT -5
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Post by BriannaWarren2.0 on Dec 24, 2023 8:12:55 GMT -5
I want to believe Shannen and Holly, trust me I do, however because they are friends it makes it harder for me to believe their version of events, I need to hear Alyssa's side on the matter before I can create an opinion, because between all of their recollections is the truth.
Shannen and Holly being friends, essentially Shannen practically giving Holly a job, might have made the work environment unhealthy or somewhat toxic, this is what people have to understand that unfortunately things can and sometimes will be one sided, Holly is human like the rest of us, with her feeling a sense of loyalty towards Shannen it could have been hard to remain unbiased towards Alyssa especially with Shannen liking Lori Rom.
I believe that if you're experiencing issues in the workplace it makes sense to go to a professional to talk about the situation and if she, Alyssa, did meet up with a mediator and/or a therapist to document her uncomfortableness then that is what should have happened instead of making an issue behind the scenes publicly this is what is talked about in toxic situations today; that you need to talk about your issues with someone who can be effective with helping you find a solution. It doesn't help that they refused to meet with said mediator who probably wanted their version of events before trying to find a resolution.
The fact this all based on hearsay doesn't help their case either, being told that someone is building a case isn't truth, it is someone who could have been trying to get Alyssa or Shannen off the show themselves and decided that if they could pit two women against either and the media would eat alive with pressure from the press it would have made the network decide to let one of the women go. It is Hollywood after all, less crazy sh!t happens behind the scenes, this isn't so farfetched, Gwyneth Paltrow allegedly stole a role from Winona Ryder in Shakespeare in Love whilst they were roommates.
You never truely understand what happens behind the scenes, unfortunately our memory isn't always as accurate as we like to believe, overtime based on our emotions, our memory could change. This isn't me saying that when more information comes out in Shannen's and Holly's favour that I will discard it, this is me saying that I need more than just someone's 20 something year memory.
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Aaeiyn
Whitelighter
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Dec 24, 2023 17:35:26 GMT -5
I want to believe Shannen and Holly, trust me I do, however because they are friends it makes it harder for me to believe their version of events, I need to hear Alyssa's side on the matter before I can create an opinion, because between all of their recollections is the truth. Shannen and Holly being friends, essentially Shannen practically giving Holly a job, might have made the work environment unhealthy or somewhat toxic, this is what people have to understand that unfortunately things can and sometimes will be one sided, Holly is human like the rest of us, with her feeling a sense of loyalty towards Shannen it could have been hard to remain unbiased towards Alyssa especially with Shannen liking Lori Rom. I believe that if you're experiencing issues in the workplace it makes sense to go to a professional to talk about the situation and if she, Alyssa, did meet up with a mediator and/or a therapist to document her uncomfortableness then that is what should have happened instead of making an issue behind the scenes publicly this is what is talked about in toxic situations today; that you need to talk about your issues with someone who can be effective with helping you find a solution. It doesn't help that they refused to meet with said mediator who probably wanted their version of events before trying to find a resolution. The fact this all based on hearsay doesn't help their case either, being told that someone is building a case isn't truth, it is someone who could have been trying to get Alyssa or Shannen off the show themselves and decided that if they could pit two women against either and the media would eat alive with pressure from the press it would have made the network decide to let one of the women go. It is Hollywood after all, less crazy sh!t happens behind the scenes, this isn't so farfetched, Gwyneth Paltrow allegedly stole a role from Winona Ryder in Shakespeare in Love whilst they were roommates. You never truely understand what happens behind the scenes, unfortunately our memory isn't always as accurate as we like to believe, overtime based on our emotions, our memory could change. This isn't me saying that when more information comes out in Shannen's and Holly's favour that I will discard it, this is me saying that I need more than just someone's 20 something year memory. We do have Rose's side, as well, who has never been an Alyssa fan, either. And claims Alyssa made the set difficult to work in. I think, at one point, Brian Krause did mention a particular somebody (he didn't mention any names) needed to back off a little, when it came to voicing their opinion on how the show should be ran. I immediately thought of Shannen. With little bits of pieces here and there, I think everyone is at fault, here. Shannen and Holly need to know their place, as actors. And not overstep their position. This is how Shannen got her "difficult to work with" label. Because she would overstep her initial job description and thought she ran the show but didn't. She let her "I'm the star of the show" get into her head. Holly having no skill in writing, producing, directing, etc. and pretending like she knows what's best for the show, as well. This is probably what ticked off Alyssa's radar of "this set is toxic" because of their demands. To the point that even Brian Krause notices this, is pretty bad. Alyssa being a baby and threatening the show with a lawsuit because she wasn't the star of the show. And equally overstepped her bounds, as an actor, trying to force the show to make her the new star or get paid equally as much as Shannen. However, I'll give Milano a slight pass in knowing her worth but still. Especially because Alyssa (like Holly) got a Producer title for S5-S8. And, if Rose is saying Alyssa is "toxic on set", I can only imagine Alyssa pulling the same thing that both Shannen and Holly did which is putting in her own two cents, on how the show should go and equally overstepping her own bounds as an actor, in not knowing her place. This is why actors should NOT have a say in how the show should go. Only person I feel sorry for (despite not liking some of her direction, like making Shannen the star of the show) is Connie. She created the show. It was her idea, and it got stolen/taken away from her. She was Executive Producer for S1-S2, even credited for writing some episodes, in those seasons. Down to Consulting Producer for S3-S4. Not credited for writing any episodes, in these seasons. Then only credited as Creator for S5-S8. Connie should've been the one threatening the show with a lawsuit, not Alyssa. But, I understand why Connie didn't. Connie probably didn't have that strong backing like Alyssa and would her lose her case, if she tried.
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forbuss
Witch
currently watching season seven
Posts: 1,743
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Post by forbuss on Jan 25, 2024 14:45:01 GMT -5
Personally I don't think Alyssa would ever tell her side of the story because she probably know that whatever she says, most fans wouldn't believe her. With Shannen in such poor health, it's much more likely that fans would believe her and Holly, even though I personally think that all three were probably at least partially in the wrong. Alyssa did say in that interview that she takes responsibility for her part in it. I'm pretty sure she even said she had a big part in it so it is always nice to see someone take accountability.
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forbuss
Witch
currently watching season seven
Posts: 1,743
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Post by forbuss on Jan 25, 2024 14:45:45 GMT -5
I want to believe Shannen and Holly, trust me I do, however because they are friends it makes it harder for me to believe their version of events, I need to hear Alyssa's side on the matter before I can create an opinion, because between all of their recollections is the truth. Shannen and Holly being friends, essentially Shannen practically giving Holly a job, might have made the work environment unhealthy or somewhat toxic, this is what people have to understand that unfortunately things can and sometimes will be one sided, Holly is human like the rest of us, with her feeling a sense of loyalty towards Shannen it could have been hard to remain unbiased towards Alyssa especially with Shannen liking Lori Rom. I believe that if you're experiencing issues in the workplace it makes sense to go to a professional to talk about the situation and if she, Alyssa, did meet up with a mediator and/or a therapist to document her uncomfortableness then that is what should have happened instead of making an issue behind the scenes publicly this is what is talked about in toxic situations today; that you need to talk about your issues with someone who can be effective with helping you find a solution. It doesn't help that they refused to meet with said mediator who probably wanted their version of events before trying to find a resolution. The fact this all based on hearsay doesn't help their case either, being told that someone is building a case isn't truth, it is someone who could have been trying to get Alyssa or Shannen off the show themselves and decided that if they could pit two women against either and the media would eat alive with pressure from the press it would have made the network decide to let one of the women go. It is Hollywood after all, less crazy sh!t happens behind the scenes, this isn't so farfetched, Gwyneth Paltrow allegedly stole a role from Winona Ryder in Shakespeare in Love whilst they were roommates. You never truely understand what happens behind the scenes, unfortunately our memory isn't always as accurate as we like to believe, overtime based on our emotions, our memory could change. This isn't me saying that when more information comes out in Shannen's and Holly's favour that I will discard it, this is me saying that I need more than just someone's 20 something year memory. We do have Rose's side, as well, who has never been an Alyssa fan, either. And claims Alyssa made the set difficult to work in. I think, at one point, Brian Krause did mention a particular somebody (he didn't mention any names) needed to back off a little, when it came to voicing their opinion on how the show should be ran. I immediately thought of Shannen. With little bits of pieces here and there, I think everyone is at fault, here. Shannen and Holly need to know their place, as actors. And not overstep their position. This is how Shannen got her "difficult to work with" label. Because she would overstep her initial job description and thought she ran the show but didn't. She let her "I'm the star of the show" get into her head. Holly having no skill in writing, producing, directing, etc. and pretending like she knows what's best for the show, as well. This is probably what ticked off Alyssa's radar of "this set is toxic" because of their demands. To the point that even Brian Krause notices this, is pretty bad. Alyssa being a baby and threatening the show with a lawsuit because she wasn't the star of the show. And equally overstepped her bounds, as an actor, trying to force the show to make her the new star or get paid equally as much as Shannen. However, I'll give Milano a slight pass in knowing her worth but still. Especially because Alyssa (like Holly) got a Producer title for S5-S8. And, if Rose is saying Alyssa is "toxic on set", I can only imagine Alyssa pulling the same thing that both Shannen and Holly did which is putting in her own two cents, on how the show should go and equally overstepping her own bounds as an actor, in not knowing her place. This is why actors should NOT have a say in how the show should go. Only person I feel sorry for (despite not liking some of her direction, like making Shannen the star of the show) is Connie. She created the show. It was her idea, and it got stolen/taken away from her. She was Executive Producer for S1-S2, even credited for writing some episodes, in those seasons. Down to Consulting Producer for S3-S4. Not credited for writing any episodes, in these seasons. Then only credited as Creator for S5-S8. Connie should've been the one threatening the show with a lawsuit, not Alyssa. But, I understand why Connie didn't. Connie probably didn't have that strong backing like Alyssa and would her lose her case, if she tried. Just wanted to add that Holly said she heard this from a producer and we do not know if Alyssa threatening to sue the show was real or just something the producers said to Holly.
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Aaeiyn
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✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jan 25, 2024 18:03:57 GMT -5
Just wanted to add that Holly said she heard this from a producer and we do not know if Alyssa threatening to sue the show was real or just something the producers said to Holly. Holly was NOT name dropped in this 15 year old video as it's "source", in saying the same "Alyssa threatened to quit" narrative. Which, BTW, most of this video is dragging Shannen through the mud, so. Take your pick. Granted, "threatening to quit" and "threatening to sue" are two different things, but I do believe they're the same thing, in this case just worded differently. Especially in regards to Milano feeling alienated/the set being "toxic" due to the besties via Doherty and Combs trying to lead the show in particular directions, at the exclusion of Milano. We have TWO different sources calling out Milano for threatening the show. Whether it was a lawsuit or quitting (more likely a lawsuit due to how contracts work, if Holly couldn't quit, neither can Milano, but I digress), we don't know, but I do believe Milano made threats to the show, that forced them into a decision.
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Post by zoeysmom on Jan 29, 2024 21:11:18 GMT -5
So really you think it was Alyssa Milano's powerhouse at the time, Lynn Milano and all her agents really behind it all. I'd agree, if that's what your saying. It makes me think Alyssa actually felt like that on set. She also suffered from depression after marrying and divorcing in the same year. Shannen got the short end of the stick for sure. And then possibly Rose. Was Holly Marie contracted to do Season 4 or Season 4-7? Because perhaps she should have thrown in the towel when she had the chance in Season 4? It kind of what have left Charmed in a better place with enough for a continuation. Argh, its such a shame but a millennial reality of what we saw on screen not being as life-like as out younger-selfs saw it - the Chandler effect! In all of this, it proves, they all are actually amazing actresses to have navigated their way through all this! Holly literally stated that she attempted to quit the show but would be sued for millions if she did. She stayed through the end of her contract. I doubt that WB/Spelling were even THAT afraid of a lawsuit tbh...they had just been sued (successfully) for firing a woman for being pregnant so maybe they were but....I think they just used it as an excuse to get Shannen out and get rid of their headache. Yeah, I remember hearing Holly wanted to quit after Shannen was fired and being told she'd be sued.
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forbuss
Witch
currently watching season seven
Posts: 1,743
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Post by forbuss on Feb 26, 2024 9:07:48 GMT -5
Just wanted to add that Holly said she heard this from a producer and we do not know if Alyssa threatening to sue the show was real or just something the producers said to Holly. Holly was NOT name dropped in this 15 year old video as it's "source", in saying the same "Alyssa threatened to quit" narrative. Which, BTW, most of this video is dragging Shannen through the mud, so. Take your pick. Granted, "threatening to quit" and "threatening to sue" are two different things, but I do believe they're the same thing, in this case just worded differently. Especially in regards to Milano feeling alienated/the set being "toxic" due to the besties via Doherty and Combs trying to lead the show in particular directions, at the exclusion of Milano. We have TWO different sources calling out Milano for threatening the show. Whether it was a lawsuit or quitting (more likely a lawsuit due to how contracts work, if Holly couldn't quit, neither can Milano, but I digress), we don't know, but I do believe Milano made threats to the show, that forced them into a decision. I honestly just disagree. Holly has already started to roll back and change her original statements and Shannen's lies/story changing has been well documented through the years. Not to mention the various folks who have worked on the show who have defended Alyssa (Krista Vernoff) or condemned Shannen's behavior (Danielle Harris) and not to mention others like Jason Priestly who confirmed Shannen was also wanting to give a her or me type choice. Brian Krause has also spoken about how Shannen can be abrupt/harsh. It's also telling to me how Alyssa's story hasn't changed and she's the only one to admit publically that she did anything wrong. Most of the issue people take with Alyssa is on her political stances after the show and don't like to talk about the many folks who support her and condemn Shannen's behavior. There has been 0 specifics about Alyssa's behavior on set - the only thing we have is Rose saying that she threw a hissy fit but we have no context. Alyssa's "fit" could have been on "A Witch's Tail" where she was deeply uncomfortable due to her fear of water. Also there is 0 proof that Alyssa issued an ultimatum or threatened to sue - we only have Holly's statement which she has already changed since saying it.
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Aaeiyn
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✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Feb 26, 2024 10:43:57 GMT -5
I honestly just disagree. You can disagree all you like, but I just gave you a video proof where Holly wasn't name dropped nor Shannen, as "the source" of Alyssa threatening to sue. Again, the video is VERY anti-Shannen, so that negates your notion that it's defending Shannen ('cause it's not) or Holly. If anything, it seemed to side with Alyssa, but I digress. I didn't say it, here (in this thread), but I said it elsewhere (in other threads). I'm starting to dislike Holly because of how she's conducting, herself. No wonder Alyssa wanted to sue, I would, too. HOWEVER, Armin Shimerman (the wizard, from S4E19 "We're off to See the Wizard") called them ALL out, for being nasty! Well, this is post-Shannen, so it may not relate to her, but he called them ALL out! Time-Stamp 8:10 And, I've listened to Alyssa's "apology", it's fake and phony as hell. Long-winded and a lot of doublespeak. Too many breaks in between her speech, like she's trying to find the "right" words, it's very odd. As I've said in other threads, ALL of them are the problem. ONLY person I feel sorry for, at all, is Constance M. Burge, that's it. EVERYONE (the actors, other writers & producers, the network, etc.) should've just been quiet, and let her tell her story, she wanted to tell.
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