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Post by outrage on Apr 13, 2015 11:34:25 GMT -5
Over the course of the series Piper has been the one sister who seeked normalcy and a life without magic the most, which is why a lot of Piper's conflicts were, well, doemstic (family life taking over her plotlines post-Season 4 and her problems balancing her life). However, throughout the series she never actually gets past the problems, which makes the character meander a lot and never develop. Even worse is that it eventually becomes her defining character trait, resulting in Piper's motivations becoming "I fight demons because they disturb me and my children" as opposed to her actual duty to protect innocents.
There's also a glaring contradiction in that Piper didn't bind her kids' powers, resulting in unecessary conflicts, like the "Wyatt turning evil" plotline.
Did you have similair problems with Piper's character and when do you believe her character started to deteriorate?
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 13, 2015 11:36:40 GMT -5
Piper's biggest problem - she wasn't happy unless she had something to gripe about. Otherwise she never would've married a man who was dead and yet still keep complaining about wanting a normal life, and then complain more when he loses his wings and becomes nothing but her little errand boy. An extremely negative person who got very irritating as the series went on.
I don't believe for even two seconds that IF she ever lost her powers, she wouldn't turn about and gripe about how much easier life was when she could use her powers to do whatever she wanted.
She just doesn't know how to be happy.
As Abraham Lincoln once said, "Some people are just about as happy as they make up their mind to be."
Piper made up her mind to be miserable - that the world was out to make her miserable, when it was she who made herself miserable by not accepting who she was; hence why I call the last four seasons, "The Perils of Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper".
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Nimue
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Post by Nimue on Apr 13, 2015 11:52:35 GMT -5
I agree with Esmeralda.
Piper always yearned for a normal life, even back in Season 1. At that point, it's perfectly understandable, seeing as how she's just been thrown into a dangerous world where demons and warlocks walk the streets and try to kill she and her sisters on a daily basis. But after a while, say sometime in Season 2, Season 3 at the latest, she should have gotten over that and learnt to accept her destiny. I think it would have shown some great character development if by the end of the series she was content with being a witch (now that I think about it, all sisters had potential for great character development that never happened- Piper and Phoebe regressed, and Paige, in my opinion, never realised her full potential), especially since she was married to a former whitelighter and had kids who were witch-whitelighter hybrids.
I also have a problem with this constant desire for a normal life because for me, it shows a lack of disrespect for her family heritage, and for something that it's in her DNA and just as much a part of her as her hair or eye color. I can understand it being difficult, but there are far worser things in the world to happen. There are people out there whose lives are a lot harder and a lot worse than Piper Halliwell's.
(Newsflash: there's no such thing as a normal life.)
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 13, 2015 11:58:30 GMT -5
Very true - "normal" is highly overated.
This is also why I think Forever Crap, I mean Forever Piper, I mean Forever Charmed is just Piper's delusion as she dies after the battle in "Kill Billie, Vol 2" - no way I can imagine her that happy!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 15:28:46 GMT -5
Look at the start of season 8, when they have their new identities. In one episode, Piper has one of her tantrums because something technical goes wrong at the club and Leo locks himself out of the house. She ends up hiding under the bed covers and whines "I can't have a normal life, I can't even have a normal day!" THESE ARE NORMAL THINGS! Does she seriously think normal lives are these perfect existences where nothing ever goes wrong? No, I don't believe she does. She just doesn't know how to live without complaining at this point. She became The Demon of Whinging; she just can't survive without it. Witch Way Now ended with what looked like Piper truly accepting who she was for the first time after declining the AOD's offer... but then the show carried on and it was the same old broken record Piper. And yeah the way she dealt with her kids was a constant contradiction that they just chose to ignore. In Lost and Bound, Piper ends the episode wanting to bind her child's powers so that they can have a normal childhood, but then that was conveniently forgotten entirely in season 5. Then Wyatt puts himself and others in danger time and time again with magic, but Piper just shrugs it off every episode and carries on with her normal life shtick. No wonder the kid turned out the way he did in Chris' future; it's not like he has boundaries or faces any consequences! I mean for crying out loud, even if you don't bind his powers... just do something!She just doesn't know how to be happy. As Abraham Lincoln once said, "Some people are just about as happy as they make up their mind to be." Piper made up her mind to be miserable Precisely. Couldn't have said it better. |
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Post by adzpower on Apr 13, 2015 15:32:46 GMT -5
Piper was a massive hypocrite.
She was desperate for a normal life yet did nothing to try and make her life normal.
She would have been so much more relaxed if she'd just accepted her destiny and fought evil, the quicker she'd done that the sooner she could have had her "normal" life.
She constantly moaned about missing out on events with her friends etc, yet we almost never see so called "friends".
She makes no effort to go out with them or invite them round or meet them for lunch.
It's not as if demons were in the manor 24/7, I fail to believe that she couldn't have spared 2 hours one day to meet a friend for coffee.
I thought Piper in seasons 1-4 was a great character, likeable, vulnerable, tough, relatable. Then she just got unbearable as time went on, around the time she had kids.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Apr 13, 2015 17:50:56 GMT -5
Look at the start of season 8, when they have their new identities. In one episode, Piper has one of her tantrums because something technical goes wrong at the club and Leo locks himself out of the house. She ends up hiding under the bed covers and whines "I can't have a normal life, I can't even have a normal day!" THESE ARE NORMAL THINGS! Does she seriously think normal lives are these perfect existences where nothing ever goes wrong? No, I don't believe she does. She just doesn't know how to live without complaining at this point. She became The Demon of Whinging; she just can't survive without it. Witch Way Now ended with what looked like Piper truly accepting who she was for the first time after declining the AOD's offer... but then the show carried on and it was the same old broken record Piper. And yeah the way she dealt with her kids was a constant contradiction that they just chose to ignore. In Lost and Bound, Piper ends the episode wanting to bind her child's powers so that they can have a normal childhood, but then that was conveniently forgotten entirely in season 5. Then Wyatt puts himself and others in danger time and time again with magic, but Piper just shrugs it off every episode and carries on with her normal life shtick. No wonder the kid turned out the way he did in Chris' future; it's not like he has boundaries or faces any consequences! I mean for crying out loud, even if you don't bind his powers... just do something!She just doesn't know how to be happy. As Abraham Lincoln once said, "Some people are just about as happy as they make up their mind to be." Piper made up her mind to be miserable Precisely. Couldn't have said it better. Ditto. |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jun 28, 2015 12:46:08 GMT -5
I know what you mean. Binding her kids' powers probably would have been the smart and wise thing for her to do. I still recall how Wyatt conjured that demon in Season 6. Piper's kids were really too young to handle their powers responsibly, let alone understand the magic they possessed. And she still could have taught them a good deal about the supernatural world . . . in a way they could have understood.
Personally, I feel that Piper should have followed her heart when it comes to whether or not she really wanted to be a part of the supernatural world. Instead, she ended up as some figure of mass contradiction. Or perhaps that is the human condition. Who knows?
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Post by sol on Oct 9, 2015 11:36:48 GMT -5
I know what you mean. Binding her kids' powers probably would have been the smart and wise thing for her to do. I still recall how Wyatt conjured that demon in Season 6. Piper's kids were really too young to handle their powers responsibly, let alone understand the magic they possessed. And she still could have taught them a good deal about the supernatural world . . . in a way they could have understood. Personally, I feel that Piper should have followed her heart when it comes to whether or not she really wanted to be a part of the supernatural world. Instead, she ended up as some figure of mass contradiction. Or perhaps that is the human condition. Who knows? I believe that contracdition is part of the human condition, I understand how it can be possible to wish a cheerful life without dreads and demons and at the same time not be able to leave her role as a witch It's happend to have opposing wishes, it happens to me often: it's the life |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2015 17:15:32 GMT -5
Dean and Sam Winchester would trade places with Piper in a New York moment. Let's do a comparison here:
Piper lives in a nice house. Dean and Sam lived in whatever cheap motel room there were in while they dealt with the monster of the week (although that Men Of Letters Bunker has changed that).
Piper has a regular job. Dean and Sam have no time for such luxury, hard to hold down a job when you're saving the Earth all the time.
Piper has friends. Most of Dean and Sam's friends are dead now.
The next Piper moans and whines and bleats about a normal life, refer her to the Winchester boys.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2015 18:14:24 GMT -5
Dean and Sam Winchester would trade places with Piper in a New York moment. Let's do a comparison here: Piper lives in a nice house. Dean and Sam lived in whatever cheap motel room there were in while they dealt with the monster of the week (although that Men Of Letters Bunker has changed that). Piper has a regular job. Dean and Sam have no time for such luxury, hard to hold down a job when you're saving the Earth all the time. Piper has friends. Most of Dean and Sam's friends are dead now. The next Piper moans and whines and bleats about a normal life, refer her to the Winchester boys. Yeah, Piper's constant whining and moaning about her life rings pretty hollow when you consider how blessed her life actually is. San Francisco is one of the most expensive cities in the entire US, and yet, Piper is still able to afford a huge Victorian manor and a bottomless closet full of trendy designer clothes, not to mention an endless array of pop artists at P3. What does she really have to complain about?  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2015 23:32:18 GMT -5
She has nothing to complain about. As far as I see it, she has it pretty good. Yeah, she lost her big sister.
However, the Winchester boys have lost a heck of a lot more people close to them, family and friends.
By comparison, Piper is living the dream.
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Post by sol on Oct 10, 2015 1:05:13 GMT -5
You cannot compare different series! The precondition of Supernatural are absolutely different from those of Charmed
Every series are a world apart, Piper isn't Dean, is'nt Regina or Peter Pan,isn't Alicia Florrik, isn't Kate Austen or Juliet Burke, isn't Alison Lockhart and not even Claire Underwood
She is Piper and Charmed is the story of three normal sisters who happen to be witches not three homeless heroines on the road or three Wonder Women living to save the world
And normal persons remain shocked if a schoolmate is killed just because he knows you, or prefer to greet a friend who is getting married without stealing the body of his fiancè or hop on a lift without running the risk of being stabbed by your boyfriend
Piper is a normal woman: she worked in a bank to pay taxes and medicine, she always worked sustaining one sister, then two sister an husband and a brother, she managed the Manor, she cooked for her family and even for the murderer sister of her bimbo friend
A gentel, hospitable, generous woman because her world wasn't the world useful to an armed heroine or a good gambler but it'ld be our world, where you have to pay taxes and have money for grocery shopping
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 11:45:58 GMT -5
A normal woman who can blow people to atoms just by a gesture of her hands. Even the Winchester boys can't do that.
Sorry, Sol, my comparison stands.
Besides, if Piper wanted a normal life, she could have given up her powers and walked away. Yet she didn't, she wanted to be a Charmed One, so she has to deal with the bad as well as the good. And her constant whining in the later seasons did not endear her to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 12:39:16 GMT -5
You cannot compare different series! The precondition of Supernatural are absolutely different from those of Charmed Seeing as they are both genre shows based around siblings fighting evil, I think a comparison is apt. It shows just how flawed Charmed's execution of the premise was, especially later on. Charmed was fairytale fluff next to Supernatural; the sisters almost always got whatever they wanted without ever having to work for it, and they never had to feel true pain and suffering. Even the deaths of Patty and Grams were mostly negated by them showing up as corporeal ghosts all the time. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 17:42:51 GMT -5
Exactly, it's not like I was comparing Charmed to a non-genre show, like Two And A Half Men, for example. If I had done that, Sol's complaint would have been valid, IMO.
It sure the heck was.
Like living in a house that they could not possibly afford.
Phoebe getting her advice column job just handed to her, and then become a big star because of it.
Piper being able to afford the musical acts she had at P3 (yet she often complained it wasn't pulling in much money, so how could she afford those acts).
The Winchester boys have none of those luxuries. The closet thing they've had to a home in years is the Men Of Letters bunker.
How many times have the Winchester boys seen the ghosts of relatives and friends they've lost. Now, it has happened on SPN, but nowhere nears as often as it did on Charmed.
Once again, Sol, my comparison stands.
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Post by sol on Oct 11, 2015 16:05:15 GMT -5
Siblings fighting evil isnt't enugh fo a comparision, the Charmed One aren't demon hunters, they help people with magic
And then the planning s different
Kripke wanted that Supernatural was a series on the road, thinking it was the "best way to tell these stories, which are rooted in American folklore", it's not coincidence that he thought of two journalists with the same names of the protagonists of "On the Road"
Kripke borrowed specially from horror films, scaring to death the audience was his purpose
Charmed is about three sisters integrated in a normal social setting, Spelling wished a magic series set in the world of today and Duke Vincent that was focused on family values: fantasy, not horror, magic not urban legend
The Winchester boys never worked, when they tried to live a normal life, each time they discovered that they weren't fit for normal life, they made their choices
Piper has always worked after the college, doing jobs that she didn't like, in the bank, to Quarke, but she worked anyway perhaps because she never thought to credit card fraud
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 17:09:24 GMT -5
So Piper clearly has had a more normal life than the Winchester boys did. Therefore, she has nothing to whine about. Yes, she's had to make sacrifices, but not as many as the Winchester boys have had to make.
Clearly, you're a Piper fan, Sol. I feel bad for you, seeing your favourite character butchered by an incompetent production team.
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Post by sol on Oct 12, 2015 3:18:35 GMT -5
Don't cry for me, Tim!
The incompetent production team gave me a fouvour!
If they worked to create a character without contradictions, always ready for battle, able to see destroyed her living room without flinching, I'ldn't love her, perfect heroines bore me
When I read Vanity Fair: A novel without a Hero, I discovered that the aucthor complained because female readers didn't like the sweet Emily, favoring the unscrupuloust and lively Becky
I also cannot stand Emily, the dream of every husband, fake and sugary: much better, with all her flaws, Becky, a real woman
I love the sisters with their flaws, without them, they'ld be the usual faux heroines
PS: different world as I told, with different settings and goals, but if Piper met Sam and Dean, she'ld make "a fabulous reunion dinner"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 7:51:41 GMT -5
I've never read this novel, so I cannot offer an opinion on it.
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