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Post by jdpm1991 on Nov 23, 2015 3:20:49 GMT -5
If Alyssa Milano had left and Phoebe died in The Underworld, would it had worked?
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Nov 23, 2015 5:48:51 GMT -5
So much better yes.
No constant moaning and normal life whining no Cole/Source storyline or stupid baby daddy quest later on.
Christy would've been deemed an innocent in Prue's eyes anyway.
Paige would have a real reason to use orbing beside being a cosmic taxi service having Phoebe's premonitions and whatnot avoiding enemy projectiles naturally providing she doesn't channel or replicate people's powers later on with empathy if the writers gave her it that is.
And the show would continue being what is was beforehand 3 sisters who happen to be witches secondly that save innocents on a regular basis.
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Post by sol on Nov 23, 2015 10:53:40 GMT -5
I don't think
I deem Paige a figure rather flat compared with Phoebe and the changes of her character
Phoebe and Cole's love story is lovely and complex, with a tragic ending and heavy consequences, as all stories that don't end with a "and they lived happily ever after"
I'ld be bored after 5/6 episodes if Charme was only a story in which everything that happens is that three sisters save some innocents
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 13:34:37 GMT -5
Phoebe would have died the character I loved and not became the vain, selfish creature who put her own personal pleasures ahead of her duties as a Charmed One.
Piper would have remained the middle sister. Being the oldest sister ruined her character, IMO.
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Post by erikamarie on Nov 24, 2015 12:29:03 GMT -5
If Alyssa Milano had left and Phoebe died in The Underworld, would it had worked? I am happy it didn't happen, Phoebe is the more complex feminine character in Charmed Her changes are unexpected : lonely girl, rebellious, confused and looking for her own way, the discovery of the magic frees the joyful and generous part of her character She acquires a self-confidence that allows her to fall in love, for the first time The loss of her older sister, her unborn son and the love of her life, like a pendulum take back Phoebe to the starting point: unsure, introvert, intolerant to pressure, looking for her own way again Slowly, Phoebe'll find new self-confidence, new provision to friendship, a new balance: at this point, Coop presence is unnecessary |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Nov 25, 2015 8:26:35 GMT -5
If Alyssa Milano had left and Phoebe died in The Underworld, would it had worked? Without Phoebe would've worked beautifully. Prue and Piper would mourn their baby sister and probably resent Patty for trying to let Paige take her place. The closeness between Shannen and Holly and their much-superior acting skills would've made Paige/Rose even more the outsider than she was and it would be harder for the show to try to make her a Halliwell right away. Prue would stick with her role as the oldest and Piper wouldn't become the whiney self-centered b!tch she became because she wouldn't have to play a role she wasn't suited to and instead could remain the warm heart of the family rather than the frozen one. Paige would take over Phoebe's role as sex symbol. Also, if Alyssa left, it would've been because she wanted to, not because she was fired, and we'd still be able to see her ghost besides seeing what happened between "All Hell Breaks Loose" and "Charmed Again". More likely than not, her ghost would be the one who would convince her sisters to go on when the Angel of Destiny gives them their choice. Best of all, with Shannen as still the star, she probably would not have signed her next contract (she was more than ready to move on), and if she didn't, neither would Holly. So Charmed would've ended when it should've - after Season Four - setting it up for a next-generation spin-off that conceivably could still be running now - with Phoebe as Wyatt and Chris' whitelighter, especially if the Charmed Sons were played by the ones playing the Supernatural brothers. |
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Nimue
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Post by Nimue on Nov 25, 2015 9:27:08 GMT -5
I'm taking advantage of a break to post this. I say yes and no (and I refuse to say yes because the sisters would have stayed as they were originally- I'm so sick and tired of hearing that). Seeing as how Prue is my favorite sister, I wouldn't have mind at all for Phoebe to die instead. It could even have opened up some interesting story lines, such as Cole spending half of the season grieving for Phoebe, and the other half maybe falling in love with Prue. Prue would spend a major part of the season feeling guilty for Phoebe's death, and her obsession with hunting demons would get a lot worse; she could possibly delve deeper into magic, into some possibly dark and dangerous magic, but all in order to hunt down the Source and protect her family. She could take it too far, and possibly endanger herself and other people. Cole could be the one to help her off that track.
A very small part of me says no, just because at the time the Phoebe/Cole storyline was extremely popular, and I'm sure it would have hurt their ratings to loose Phoebe (not as much as loosing Prue, obviously, but it still would have hurt).
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Nov 28, 2015 21:56:39 GMT -5
It depends on the writing. Otherwise, I cannot answer that question.
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Dec 19, 2015 14:08:44 GMT -5
If Alyssa Milano had left and Phoebe died in The Underworld, would it had worked? Without Phoebe would've worked beautifully. Prue and Piper would mourn their baby sister and probably resent Patty for trying to let Paige take her place. The closeness between Shannen and Holly and their much-superior acting skills would've made Paige/Rose even more the outsider than she was and it would be harder for the show to try to make her a Halliwell right away. Prue would stick with her role as the oldest and Piper wouldn't become the whiney self-centered b!tch she became because she wouldn't have to play a role she wasn't suited to and instead could remain the warm heart of the family rather than the frozen one. Paige would take over Phoebe's role as sex symbol. Also, if Alyssa left, it would've been because she wanted to, not because she was fired, and we'd still be able to see her ghost besides seeing what happened between "All Hell Breaks Loose" and "Charmed Again". More likely than not, her ghost would be the one who would convince her sisters to go on when the Angel of Destiny gives them their choice. Best of all, with Shannen as still the star, she probably would not have signed her next contract (she was more than ready to move on), and if she didn't, neither would Holly. So Charmed would've ended when it should've - after Season Four - setting it up for a next-generation spin-off that conceivably could still be running now - with Phoebe as Wyatt and Chris' whitelighter, especially if the Charmed Sons were played by the ones playing the Supernatural brothers. If the show had ended in season 4, we would've only had the hint of the one kid. And there wouldn't have been any hint that it was a boy, let alone a Wyatt Matthew. So it literally would've been a situation where they could cast anyone as the lead, with the only catch being the involvement of Piper and Leo's child. |
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Post by adzpower on Dec 19, 2015 15:01:19 GMT -5
I for one, am kind of glad Shannen left when she did, imo season four was still a great season, but season five onwards? I imagine the show would have ended up the same way it did regardless of who remained on the cast. The only difference being that Kern would have found a way to ruin prue as well and I prefer to remember her as she was, before she was lobotomized like the others. Thank God Paige at least returned to form by the end.
Phoebe and Piper were just insufferable by the end. Having Prue there wouldn't have changed that. She'd have been destroyed as well.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 19, 2015 16:04:51 GMT -5
Without Phoebe would've worked beautifully. Prue and Piper would mourn their baby sister and probably resent Patty for trying to let Paige take her place. The closeness between Shannen and Holly and their much-superior acting skills would've made Paige/Rose even more the outsider than she was and it would be harder for the show to try to make her a Halliwell right away. Prue would stick with her role as the oldest and Piper wouldn't become the whiney self-centered b!tch she became because she wouldn't have to play a role she wasn't suited to and instead could remain the warm heart of the family rather than the frozen one. Paige would take over Phoebe's role as sex symbol. Also, if Alyssa left, it would've been because she wanted to, not because she was fired, and we'd still be able to see her ghost besides seeing what happened between "All Hell Breaks Loose" and "Charmed Again". More likely than not, her ghost would be the one who would convince her sisters to go on when the Angel of Destiny gives them their choice. Best of all, with Shannen as still the star, she probably would not have signed her next contract (she was more than ready to move on), and if she didn't, neither would Holly. So Charmed would've ended when it should've - after Season Four - setting it up for a next-generation spin-off that conceivably could still be running now - with Phoebe as Wyatt and Chris' whitelighter, especially if the Charmed Sons were played by the ones playing the Supernatural brothers. If the show had ended in season 4, we would've only had the hint of the one kid. And there wouldn't have been any hint that it was a boy, let alone a Wyatt Matthew. So it literally would've been a situation where they could cast anyone as the lead, with the only catch being the involvement of Piper and Leo's child. I agree totally. But especially if it had been the actors starring in "Supernatural" and not Ramsey and Fuller, them being sons rather than daughters would give them a chance to be different than their mothers, the best way to have a successful spin-off. Although if you could indeed have anyone, I think I would prefer them to be Chosen rather than Charmed - the oldest of each family with the possibility of Prue's husband and Phoebe's husband endless. And given that, letting Piper have Melinda and letting either Prue or Phoebe have a son makes it even more interesting, and different than their mothers. Without the Power of Three, they would be much more vulnerable than their mothers. |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 19, 2015 16:06:38 GMT -5
I for one, am kind of glad Shannen left when she did, imo season four was still a great season, but season five onwards? I imagine the show would have ended up the same way it did regardless of who remained on the cast. The only difference being that Kern would have found a way to ruin prue as well and I prefer to remember her as she was, before she was lobotomized like the others. Thank God Paige at least returned to form by the end. Phoebe and Piper were just insufferable by the end. Having Prue there wouldn't have changed that. She'd have been destroyed as well. But that's why having Shannen stay rather than Alyssa makes so much more sense. With Shannen, she wouldn't have signed that second contract and none of them would've become insuffereable. And the possibilities of what to do with Cole once Phoebe is gone are endless. |
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Post by adzpower on Dec 19, 2015 16:39:44 GMT -5
I for one, am kind of glad Shannen left when she did, imo season four was still a great season, but season five onwards? I imagine the show would have ended up the same way it did regardless of who remained on the cast. The only difference being that Kern would have found a way to ruin prue as well and I prefer to remember her as she was, before she was lobotomized like the others. Thank God Paige at least returned to form by the end. Phoebe and Piper were just insufferable by the end. Having Prue there wouldn't have changed that. She'd have been destroyed as well. But that's why having Shannen stay rather than Alyssa makes so much more sense. With Shannen, she wouldn't have signed that second contract and none of them would've become insuffereable. And the possibilities of what to do with Cole once Phoebe is gone are endless. I'm not convinced that she would have refused, heck, she may have not even minded the change in direction since she seems eager to change things up every so often, that may have actually stopped her from leaving! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2015 20:03:17 GMT -5
I'd say yes, mainly because the 'oldest/middle/youngest' dynamic would remain more or less intact.
Prue would still be the leader and having her lose one of the sisters she helped raise would have been beyond devastating for her. I can really imagine Shannen getting her teeth into that and selling the hell out of it. Ultimately I think it'd make Prue even more protective of Piper and Paige.
Piper would still be the middle sister, which I think would stop (or at least slow down) her mutation into the harpy we were left with by the end.
Phoebe as the middle sister just seemed kinda meaningless to me. Probably because she was often away doing her own thing, but also because there wasn't really much to mediate. Initially there was Piper's "how dare she replace Prue!" stuff, but once Piper moved passed that, she usually got along with Paige better than Phoebe did. If any mediating was to be done in s5-8, Piper and Paige did most of it, because it was usually someone arguing with Phoebe.
Plus I like the idea of Paige with premonitions. If you want to incorporate her whitelighter side, you could mix it with whitelighter sensing abilities... but I'd personally just let her be a destined future whitelighter and therefore just a witch in life. Her work in social services could earn her wings in death.
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Post by West on Feb 3, 2016 7:41:19 GMT -5
I'd say yes, mainly because the 'oldest/middle/youngest' dynamic would remain more or less intact. Prue would still be the leader and having her lose one of the sisters she helped raise would have been beyond devastating for her. I can really imagine Shannen getting her teeth into that and selling the hell out of it. Ultimately I think it'd make Prue even more protective of Piper and Paige. Piper would still be the middle sister, which I think would stop (or at least slow down) her mutation into the harpy we were left with by the end. Phoebe as the middle sister just seemed kinda meaningless to me. Probably because she was often away doing her own thing, but also because there wasn't really much to mediate. Initially there was Piper's "how dare she replace Prue!" stuff, but once Piper moved passed that, she usually got along with Paige better than Phoebe did. If any mediating was to be done in s5-8, Piper and Paige did most of it, because it was usually someone arguing with Phoebe. Plus I like the idea of Paige with premonitions. If you want to incorporate her whitelighter side, you could mix it with whitelighter sensing abilities... but I'd personally just let her be a destined future whitelighter and therefore just a witch in life. Her work in social services could earn her wings in death. Yes and I love the story for Prue, loosing her baby sister and learning she has another younger sister. That in itself has SO much potenial for great story and I'm sure Shannen would have so much fun as an actress here. Plus I cant see the power of three being reconstituted so quickly with this set, even though Brad Kern would of still done that anyways. I cant see Prue accepting Paige so quickly, with Piper now being stuck in the middle of Prue and her new sister. Paige with premonitions is just so interesting with her whitelighter side. I like your ideas, with it mixing with whitelighter sensing abilities, so we wont need Empathy. What could of been, and seeing as Shannen wont sign her second contract, and Holly follows. Rose gets to have her dream of only doing two seasons of Charmed. So everybody wins and the show ends when it should have. |
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Post by goldeneye049 on Jun 24, 2020 14:26:21 GMT -5
Sorry for my english,
If Phoebe was dead knowing that Shannen would probably do a few episodes and that she considers season 3 to be the best, I imagine a more serious sequel. Phoebe and Cole would be killed at the same time as the source had requested. Season 4 would be very dark.
The source would be much more threatening and would try to kill Paige relentlessly before she reaches full power, she would not want her on her side and would not take the risk especially since she is half whitelighter. Of course, she would try to kill prue and piper but they are less vulnerable.
It would be destroyed at the end of the season.
Prue would be in depression and would not accept Phoebe's death but would not reject Paige because she is innocent and it is not part of her character to reject someone who has done nothing, I do not think that she hates her mother because she knows the founders were strict (leo piper 3x02) she would overprotect Piper and paige, I think she would have created a protective amulet for everyone blessed by the power of the three (she created crystals) she studies what was wrong with the old trio, that you should never trust the demons and never go to hell separately as it costs Phoebe's life. She would be determined to fight the source but would be afraid of it. She would do everything to develop their respective primary and secondary powers. She could probably separate from her astral body, stay awake and use her powers. She accepts Phoebe's death and will emerge from depression when she is avenged.
Piper would be very devastated but could not have as much anger and disgust as having lost Prue because the source would be very violent and determined and because Prue would be angry to see Piper leave Paige delivered to the demons. She would hide behind Prue who would give instructions. She will fight for their survival but once season 4 is over, Piper will no longer want to invest as a witch.
Paige would have the power of premonition and teleportation. She would try to reject this at first, but seeing the threat of the source and the visions of the past and the future, she quickly sided with the sisters. Prue in particular would teach her to fight potions and develop her powers
In conclusion, I think the power of the three would be greatly strengthened and developed because Prue wouldn't let past mistakes repeat themselves unlike the original changes or nothing and Paige simply replaces Prue. I do not think of a new crowning of the source and return of the triad. At the end of the season, Paige would ask what they were going to do from now on the triad and the source being defeated and prue would answer him what we do best "save the Innocents" because prue and Paige were both very invested unlike Piper who never loved and Phoebe who is constantly looking for a man after cole.
5th season: Shannen having carried out the episode 2x22 it is possible that the council reappeared if this one remembers it contrary to the original or this one disappeared or worse still recast in triad. Perhaps a demon like Zankou who would have been banished by the source and the triad being dead this one will be released. A normal season without babies and not girly like the original summer. Season 5 would certainly be the last unless Shannen plays a more important role on the sets where we could have a 6th but I doubt it and certainly not 7 and 8. The big threats would be overcome and their destiny accomplished.
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codebox
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Post by codebox on Jun 27, 2020 20:41:48 GMT -5
Looking back I think getting rid of Phoebe over Prue would've been better in a lot of areas. The two most primary reasons being the dynamic would stay the same and more power consistency. With Prue, Piper and Phoebe it was clear they had a Oldest, Middle, Youngest as the set dynamic and Piper/Phoebe were never meat to fullfill the oldest/middle sister role at all. With Piper she never felt like a leader or an attempt to be one after the source was defeated in Charmed and Dangerous. If Phoebe had died and Paige came in, not only would the balance be restored, you'd gain a dynamic without missing the core charm of the sisters. In Season 3 Phoebe went through character decline with her no longer caring about magic or demon fighting, it just about her and Cole or talking about Cole, not to mention how selfish she became. Paige coming in would've given us the Phoebe we had in Seasons 1-2, with the added bonus of giving her the entire season to adjust.
I mean think about it, a huge problem of Season 4 (and a lot of the show onwards actually) was how much Phoebe's plots began to take over everything. If Phoebe wasn't there we wouldn't have had that drama that persisted in Three Faces of Phoebe-Witch Way Now. Paige would've had the full season dedicated to her and adjusting to the witch life, it would've also still kept Prue and Piper with their respective oldest/middle sister roles. Cole's role as the source could've been from a downfall of losing Phoebe, thus exploring more of an interesting dynamic and had him be a villain that deserved scorn and not pity. I also want to add with Phoebe gone she would've only had ONE season as PhoeMe, thus more time is spent on the time we had her as our Phoebs.
We also wouldn't have had the rubbish things like Phoebe's boring advice column, Prue was already the work heavy sister in Seasons 1-2 and did a much better job at balancing. Some may argue, well Prue became unlikable in Season 3 (go see my post for those who haven't) but also if that were the case I'd rather see the possiblity of how bad or if she really would've evolved into that not to mention still having two likable sisters over just 1 for the remainder of the show. Not to mention, by extension we would'nt have had the Cole bashing saga in Season 5, did it really have to last for 12 episodes? They effectively wasted half of a season of just the same thing over and over again. With Cole gone we could've seen another side of the season (especially with Shannen's vision of wanting the show to remain darker) with Paige keeping the same role she did in Season 5, only SHE KEEPS her job and doesn't get shafted for Phoebe and the City's advice column.
I also think this more and more because of how Phoebe's powers barely meant or contributed to anything in the long run. I mean even by Seasons 3-5 Phoebe's premonitions were rarely a factor, its just when they happened they still served a purpose. However It was very clear that by Season 6 Phoebe had basically no use in the show as far as demon fighting goes, in fact there's a thing around Twitter displaying this scene from Imaginary Fiends
where there's a fight going around and everyone but Phoebe does something, she just gets blasted away. And makes me think "What is the point of Phoebe being around?" And I shouldn't be thinking that! These were suppose to be powerful witches and Phoebe is as useful to them as an inexperienced mortal. You might as well have replaced her with Daryl in that scene! She's somehow less powerful there than when she was kidnapped by Javna in episode 2! Y'know back when they were inexperienced with their powers?
When Phoebe got empathy her premonitions became non existent and the ones she had mostly reflected or were related to herself. Her first premonition in Season 6 was literally an office riot she started from her empathy in Forget Me... Not, what does that have to do with its intended purpose? It functionally felt like a different power by then. This is also where Paige comes in. Since Paige has the ability to sense, why not make it a whitelighter version of Premonition? Paige could just sense who their innocent is anyway, provided they already know who it is, why not go a step further? You could even keep her other powers like Orbing, Telekinesis Orbing etc as extensions, that way she feels the role of Premonition, but due to her whitelighter side her powers would've developed in ways that made sense. Plus sensing just made Phoebe useless.
That's my verdict, a lot of stuff in the show would've benefitted from Phoebe's absence. Especially when Season 3 already ruined her.
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Post by Elle Em on Jun 28, 2020 7:26:38 GMT -5
I think killing off Phoebe would have worked a lot better than what we got. Phoebe and Paige were very similar characters, although I think Paige was a better adult. Both had the carefree, creative, partying side to them, but Paige also balanced that well with her job and other aspects of her life. Phoebe seemed like she could do one or the other, but not both.
Out of the original three, the show is the strongest if the leader, aka Prue, is kept. They needed direction, and it was obvious from most of the show after Prue was gone that they suffered the lack of it. Piper did not fill the role well.
I would be curious to see how Piper and Paige's relationship was different if Phoebe had died. I think she would be devastated at losing Phoebe, but that it would be easier for her to lose Phoebe than Prue. Piper needed support, and losing a sister (Prue) and also losing the support she gave her at the same time was too much for her to deal with. If Phoebe died, it would be hard but she would still have Prue to lean on. I think here, Piper would be a lot kinder to Paige, even if it still takes her a while to welcome her into the family.
I disagree with some of the other posters who said that if Phoebe died and Paige came in, the dynamic would be the same as far as each sister's role to the others. Prue would remain the oldest, but I could see that leadership suffering as she questions her ability to lead after losing Phoebe. And Piper would remain the in the middle, but her role as mediator would be much different. Paige and Prue might not always get along, but Paige is not the youngest, even though her age says she is. She was raised as an only child, which is typically closest to the oldest in personality. She might not want or need Piper mediating for her.
Overall I think it would be better if Piper were the one who died, but Phoebe dying and Paige taking her place could work as well.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 28, 2020 8:45:14 GMT -5
My major thing is why should a death change the role of the sisters? Prue would *always* be the Oldest Child no matter if she's dead or not because that's how she was raised. Piper would *always* be the Middle Child no matter if she was dead or not (and personally, I'd rather see "Without Piper" than "Without Phoebe") because that's how she was raised. Phoebe would *always* be the Baby no matter if she was dead or not because that's how she was raised. Paige would *always* be the Only Child because that's how she was raised. Piper never seemed like an Oldest; Phoebe never seemed like a Middle and Paige never seemed like a Baby because that was not their role. For me, trying to change that just to "make things fresh" was the worst mistake made on the show outside of whitelighters, witchlighters and a mercenary demon being able to become good just because Phoebe lusted after him.
Piper should've remained the Middle - wondering what Prue would do, so Prue could remain the Oldest - Phoebe the Baby - needing direction from Piper who needed it from Prue - and Paige should have been the Only Child (which is actually more like an Oldest, so SHE, not Piper, should've become the new leader, but leading in such a way that let her half-sisters grow up and not become Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper and PhoeME.
As such, yes, "Without a Different Sister" would've worked, especially if the others could've retained their proper role in the family, and because it's more likely to have happened if Charmed was "Without Phoebe" than "Without Prue", I definitely that would've worked and been much better than what we got. Although if Kern was still part of it, I'm sure he would've found a way to screw it up.
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Post by Elle Em on Jun 28, 2020 14:35:09 GMT -5
I agree, Es. They're grown women. At that point in their lives (20s), it doesn't matter who is actually the oldest, middle or youngest. It only mattered into adulthood with the original three because they grew up together, and their relationship was forever cemented with the idea of their birth order. Even so, they could have all easily become more like equals as adults once Phoebe grew up a bit, Prue loosened up, and Piper was able to better stand up for herself, as well as make Prue and Phoebe deal with their own issues with each other.
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