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Post by Sadrick on Mar 10, 2016 18:54:39 GMT -5
Well having finished watching the first season of Buffy this past day, I can say that it's decent. The atmosphere is tense at points and some of the underlying moral lessons that have to do with school life are interesting. However, I'm having a difficult time trying to reconcile with this lightly voiced fluffy blonde teenager being the preordained slayer of vampires and various other supernatural evils; that makes it tough for me to take her seriously at various points. The dialogue is articulated in such a quick and unintelligibly hushed manner that I find myself having to rewind the video and look up the transcript to understand what it is they're saying. You have a good amount of creativity to the monsters and the characters, but I've noticed that there's still quite a bit of cheese like with the personalities of the villains, the execution of certain scenes, and the dated sounding music. I found myself looking forward to the monster-of-the-week episodes moreso than the mythology arc episodes that centre around this "Master" character and his ilk. He just about fits the moulding of your typical mustache twirling evildoer to fit into Charmed which is understandable. I can definitely see how Charmed in S3 was inspired by this show. Cole in some respects mirrors Angel with their similarly troubled backgrounds as a former villain who is in love with the lead character and trying to redeem themselves. It's been ages since I last watched the show, but the general consensus among Buffy fans is that Seasons 2 and 3 are much, MUCH better than Season 1. The show had a better budget, the acting was better, and the series had found its footing. I think Season 1 was still carrying a lot of baggage from the 1992 movie (which I don't recommend watching... luckily, it's not considered canon), hence the cheesier stuff, Buffy being a fluffy cheerleader, and whatnot. Now, as for the post-high school seasons, I strongly recommend stopping at Season 5. Neither the UPN seasons or the comic seasons are really worth it and will probably just ruin the rest of show for you. Like Charmed, Buffy was another show that overstayed its welcome. Thanks for the words of advice. A wise person would choose to heed them, though an argument could be made that their own curiosity might supersede any notions of viewing enjoyment and integrity. I might have to watch Seasons 6 and 7 just to get the full experience. Sorry... Anyway, after finishing Season 2, I just have to say... Buffy is a much greater show than Charmed in my eyes now! You were right. The growth in acting and story quality is amazing. Spike and Drusilla are a much welcomed addition to the cast. They have the charisma, quirkiness, and rebellious chaotic streak to make for more relatable and entertaining villains compared with the drab and cliche "Master" boss of vampires. Their activities in the core mythology episodes of the season actually had my interest moreso than others involving monster-of-the-weeks -- even then, Joss Whedon and the other writers frequently managed to incorporate the overall antagonists into the plot somehow or we were given updates on what they're doing. The monsters still manged to be entertaining in their own right, though. There were a few not so interesting bits like Bad Eggs and Inca Mummy Girl, but the ones like Lies to Me and I Only Have Eyes for You. The former especially really brought to head the reality of enemies not necessarily coinciding to perceived behavioural traits of villains. People, humans, are easily as capable of performing extreme acts because of unforeseeable circumstances that compel them to act. You know what they're doing is wrong, but you can't help but realise that their motives aren't exactly without merit or undeserving of sympathy to some degree. I wish Charmed could have better explored this angle with its villains' motives and actions. The latter episode also spoke to me because it brought forth the issue of forgiveness and how someone can deserve it or not. It speaks to the situation of the arc where the big bad is someone whom Buffy loved, Angel, but has now regressed into their malevolent self. Can she forgive him after all of the horrible acts he committed as a vampire? Does compassion and necessity for closure alone justify forgiveness? Or is it something that you earn and is only reserved for the less evil? Again, this is the kind of depth I wish Charmed could have provided. The Buffy/Angel relationship really resembles Phoebe and Cole, except it's far better written and handled. The contrast of Angel's two natures and his emotional affliction over his past crimes while aspiring for redemption seem to actually hold some merit. I can't really say the same is true for Cole who was manipulated, used, destroyed, and then ostracised with no real closure or pay off given to the effort made in his quest to become good. Sure there was his cameo in Season 7, but it was kind of a hastily drawn up "resolution" with no one learning about it on-screen except for Piper. I apologise if this comes across as rambling. I just wanted to express my thoughts on the season you mentioned would be better, bettynewbie. Hopefully Season 3 and beyond offer similar quality. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2016 0:21:40 GMT -5
Thanks for the words of advice. A wise person would choose to heed them, though an argument could be made that their own curiosity might supersede any notions of viewing enjoyment and integrity. I might have to watch Seasons 6 and 7 just to get the full experience. Sorry... Well, I can't force you to do anything. Maybe, you should be allowed to make up your own mind on the last two seasons, although I can't say I didn't warn you if you end up hating them.  Anyway, after finishing Season 2, I just have to say... Buffy is a much greater show than Charmed in my eyes now! You were right. The growth in acting and story quality is amazing. Yeah, Season 2 was really when Buffy came into its own and became the iconic show most people remember. As I said, I think Season 1 was still carrying a lot of baggage from the failed 1992 movie, hence the awkward cliches and corny bits (especially considering that the series was meant to be a drama, unlike the movie--the cheesy, low-budget parody tone didn't work at all for the show). Spike and Drusilla are a much welcomed addition to the cast. They have the charisma, quirkiness, and rebellious chaotic streak to make for more relatable and entertaining villains compared with the drab and cliche "Master" boss of vampires. Their activities in the core mythology episodes of the season actually had my interest moreso than others involving monster-of-the-weeks -- even then, Joss Whedon and the other writers frequently managed to incorporate the overall antagonists into the plot somehow or we were given updates on what they're doing. The monsters still manged to be entertaining in their own right, though. That's something that separated Whedon from Charmed's writers, he actually knew how to write interesting villains and good, engaging story arcs. While he's not perfect, he actually pays attention to things like continuity and doesn't try to bore the audience. There were a few not so interesting bits like Bad Eggs and Inca Mummy Girl, but the ones like Lies to Me and I Only Have Eyes for You. The former especially really brought to head the reality of enemies not necessarily coinciding to perceived behavioural traits of villains. People, humans, are easily as capable of performing extreme acts because of unforeseeable circumstances that compel them to act. You know what they're doing is wrong, but you can't help but realise that their motives aren't exactly without merit or undeserving of sympathy to some degree. I wish Charmed could have better explored this angle with its villains' motives and actions. That's another thing that separated Buffy's writers from Charmed's, they actually saw shades of grey and wrote from a modern sense of morality, rather than uphold a strict black & white ideal more suited for the 1950s. One-off episodes like "Morality Bites" were really the only time we ever saw Charmed step out of its box and give us a glimpse of what the show could've been in different hands. The latter episode also spoke to me because it brought forth the issue of forgiveness and how someone can deserve it or not. It speaks to the situation of the arc where the big bad is someone whom Buffy loved, Angel, but has now regressed into their malevolent self. Can she forgive him after all of the horrible acts he committed as a vampire? Does compassion and necessity for closure alone justify forgiveness? Or is it something that you earn and is only reserved for the less evil? Again, this is the kind of depth I wish Charmed could have provided. The Buffy/Angel relationship really resembles Phoebe and Cole, except it's far better written and handled. The contrast of Angel's two natures and his emotional affliction over his past crimes while aspiring for redemption seem to actually hold some merit. I can't really say the same is true for Cole who was manipulated, used, destroyed, and then ostracised with no real closure or pay off given to the effort made in his quest to become good. Sure there was his cameo in Season 7, but it was kind of a hastily drawn up "resolution" with no one learning about it on-screen except for Piper. Yeah, Angel was pretty much what Cole should've been on Charmed, which again goes back to Buffy having a far more modern and balanced sense of morality than Charmed. Simply by virtue of being a demon, Cole was never allowed redemption or forgiveness of any kind, all while the countless acts of evil committed by the sisters were either whitewashed or handwaved (see "Hyde School Reunion," for example). |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2016 12:40:38 GMT -5
Buffy was lucky that it had Joss Whedon, a Generation X person, who created Buffy and had full creative control. He understood the modern audience and how to write for them.
Brad Kern, on the other hand, was just an employee, who did what his bosses, two pre-World War II dinosaurs, told him to do.
Perhaps if Kern had grown a backbone and stood up to Spelling and Vincent, and their 1950's ideals and values, then Charmed might have been a much better show. However, since he didn't create Charmed, he didn't have the same emotional investment that Whedon had in Buffy, so he just went along with Spelling and Vincent's outdated morals.
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Post by sol on Mar 14, 2016 10:29:58 GMT -5
I don't know what is IMDB forum and I don't care, but I'ld encourage, other than being sorry, to work for a forum less luot and aggressive
For example, Tim, what's the need to repeat every time the same obsessive phrase about Spelling and VIncent? What does it mean?
We're not talking of Bewitched, with poor witch Samantha, housewife in her husband's orders, but of three independent women, with a job, aspirations, men and dates for fun until they'll actually fall in love, Piper alsogave herself an homemade husband, exactly the opposite of the mentality of the Fifties
Are the 3 children the problem? Tim, on this side of the ocean, three children are the maximum of modernity, arouse admiration and privilege by the state, in France you risk of being decorated
And Buffy and her creator: why your perfect board is called casahalliwell and not casabuffy?
If Buffy is so 'brilliant, why you always talk in general terms, even in your site, and never specifically how you doing with Charmed? why don't you compare Phoebe with Dawn, for example, Cole with Spike, some depressed sadistic, ops, in Charmed there not, with Gilles?
And are you sure that it was a good idea for Whedon carry on the canon with the comics?
I watched Buffy when I was in high school while I was doing homework in the afternoon, because Buffy was considered one of the usual teen story and was trasmitted at 5 pm,so netween a translation of the Latin and some algebraic calculation I watched Buffy
The great problem of adolescents may not only be depicted as jerk bullies against nice dorky,with no vampires and Hellmouth, Buffy'ld be reduced to this and seeing that teens that I knew didn't belong to any of these categories, but they were just confused and presumptuous as they are at that time, often seemed to me that Cicero defending Marco Celio was more original
I therefore felt more like the about twenty years old Phoebe with her willies and passions
There are a lot of different opinions, there are those who love Cole and who not, who love some seasons and not others, and here the people opinions are bashed instead of talking and this is also your attitude with your obsessive phrases always the same
You'ld accept those wholike all those children, like theisters in all eight seasons and don't spread incense at the foot of Whedon, I'm sure that the Cafè'ld do without soem baby sitter
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Post by adzpower on Mar 14, 2016 17:13:25 GMT -5
Damn. I joined this forum a while ago to have some fun and talk about one of my favorite shows, not to log in and see all this. I'm sad right now. I'm sad to see tim66 go as I always liked reading his opinions.
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Post by farerb on Mar 15, 2016 1:02:51 GMT -5
It's been ages since I last watched the show, but the general consensus among Buffy fans is that Seasons 2 and 3 are much, MUCH better than Season 1. The show had a better budget, the acting was better, and the series had found its footing. I think Season 1 was still carrying a lot of baggage from the 1992 movie (which I don't recommend watching... luckily, it's not considered canon), hence the cheesier stuff, Buffy being a fluffy cheerleader, and whatnot. Now, as for the post-high school seasons, I strongly recommend stopping at Season 5. Neither the UPN seasons or the comic seasons are really worth it and will probably just ruin the rest of show for you. Like Charmed, Buffy was another show that overstayed its welcome. Thanks for the words of advice. A wise person would choose to heed them, though an argument could be made that their own curiosity might supersede any notions of viewing enjoyment and integrity. I might have to watch Seasons 6 and 7 just to get the full experience. Sorry... Anyway, after finishing Season 2, I just have to say... Buffy is a much greater show than Charmed in my eyes now! You were right. The growth in acting and story quality is amazing. Spike and Drusilla are a much welcomed addition to the cast. They have the charisma, quirkiness, and rebellious chaotic streak to make for more relatable and entertaining villains compared with the drab and cliche "Master" boss of vampires. Their activities in the core mythology episodes of the season actually had my interest moreso than others involving monster-of-the-weeks -- even then, Joss Whedon and the other writers frequently managed to incorporate the overall antagonists into the plot somehow or we were given updates on what they're doing. The monsters still manged to be entertaining in their own right, though. There were a few not so interesting bits like Bad Eggs and Inca Mummy Girl, but the ones like Lies to Me and I Only Have Eyes for You. The former especially really brought to head the reality of enemies not necessarily coinciding to perceived behavioural traits of villains. People, humans, are easily as capable of performing extreme acts because of unforeseeable circumstances that compel them to act. You know what they're doing is wrong, but you can't help but realise that their motives aren't exactly without merit or undeserving of sympathy to some degree. I wish Charmed could have better explored this angle with its villains' motives and actions. The latter episode also spoke to me because it brought forth the issue of forgiveness and how someone can deserve it or not. It speaks to the situation of the arc where the big bad is someone whom Buffy loved, Angel, but has now regressed into their malevolent self. Can she forgive him after all of the horrible acts he committed as a vampire? Does compassion and necessity for closure alone justify forgiveness? Or is it something that you earn and is only reserved for the less evil? Again, this is the kind of depth I wish Charmed could have provided. The Buffy/Angel relationship really resembles Phoebe and Cole, except it's far better written and handled. The contrast of Angel's two natures and his emotional affliction over his past crimes while aspiring for redemption seem to actually hold some merit. I can't really say the same is true for Cole who was manipulated, used, destroyed, and then ostracised with no real closure or pay off given to the effort made in his quest to become good. Sure there was his cameo in Season 7, but it was kind of a hastily drawn up "resolution" with no one learning about it on-screen except for Piper. I apologise if this comes across as rambling. I just wanted to express my thoughts on the season you mentioned would be better, bettynewbie. Hopefully Season 3 and beyond offer similar quality. I actually liked season 6&7. I thought they had great characters development and took the most risks regarding their characters and the plots. |
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Post by farerb on Mar 15, 2016 1:07:53 GMT -5
Can anyone really say that the writers of Charmed cared about the plots or the characters in s5-8? Because they didn't, all they cared about is going as long as they can even if it ment to put the characters in stupid outfits.
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Post by sol on Mar 15, 2016 4:07:14 GMT -5
I think otherwise
Piper from the fifth season onwards tries to accept the role of older sister, which is not suitable for her but it's life which decides, you like it or not
Piper is the classic woman who lives a life of compromise between the dream and the real life
She'ld like to have a normal life but decided to remain a witch because of her sisters
She'ld like to be a chef but manages a nightclub because it leaves more freedom of action
She'ld like to get back her older sister, her best friend, to be able to still allow herself to be confused and indecisive but she cannot so often reacts with a hardness that doesn't belong to her but with which to mask her fears
Only when she'll become a mom of two children she is finally able to gain greater balance between the sweet and shy Piper of the past and the matriarch of the Halliwell who had to turn into
Phoebe solved her conflicts becoming a witch, she is the only one of the sisters whose identity is based on this role
She gains selfconfidence, solves her problems with her older sister, goes back to school,it's a joyful Phoebe that one that falls in love with Cole
The love story with Cole ends up leaving ruins: she loses a son, loses confidence in herself that even became Queen of the Underworld, she loses confidence in her ability of being a good witch
She'll take refuge in her job,uncertain even about herelf: Drake'll be the only one able to make her to love magic again, to see her life with buoyancy
Paige was alone, had habits and friends,turning into a witch with two sisters changed her life, her restless and adventurous nature are suitable to become a good witch
She brings joy in the Manor and her tendency to change jobs and projects are part of her independent and wacky temperament
Paige doesn'n look like Prue, she has a cheerful sweetness that creates balance between the sisters
In season 8 are at last women, not later adolescents, and women e confident and at peace with their world
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Post by farerb on Mar 15, 2016 10:27:13 GMT -5
To each his own. I like when the fate of the world is at stake than the fate of careers, dates and baby showers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2016 12:03:15 GMT -5
The major difference between Charmed and BtVS is that the latter remained consistent throughout its run, whereas Charmed started out well enough but had failed dismally by Season 8. I like all seasons of Buffy and find, even the weaker seasons, much less frustrating than Charmed because even when the characters' behaviour is questionable there is still a logic or a reason behind it, and their "change" is explored over time, not for one or two episodes and then dropped. Geez, I even sympathised more with Dark Willow than Dark Phoebe, even though she nearly destroyed the world.
As for BtVS Season - yeah, it's not the best but that's because the main plots are cheesy and dated but the character development is still all there. Charmed Seasons 1-2 (and most of S3/S4) are similar in my perspective, there's a lot of cringeworthy stuff but the interaction between the sisters makes up for it.
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Post by Nimue on Mar 15, 2016 12:12:36 GMT -5
The major difference between Charmed and BtVS is that the latter remained consistent throughout its run, whereas Charmed started out well enough but had failed dismally by Season 8. I like all seasons of Buffy and find, even the weaker seasons, much less frustrating than Charmed because even when the characters' behaviour is questionable there is still a logic or a reason behind it, and their "change" is explored over time, not for one or two episodes and then dropped. Geez, I even sympathised more with Dark Willow than Dark Phoebe, even though she nearly destroyed the world. As for BtVS Season - yeah, it's not the best but that's because the main plots are cheesy and dated but the character development is still all there. Charmed Seasons 1-2 (and most of S3/S4) are similar in my perspective, there's a lot of cringeworthy stuff but the interaction between the sisters makes up for it. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2016 12:29:05 GMT -5
The major difference between Charmed and BtVS is that the latter remained consistent throughout its run, whereas Charmed started out well enough but had failed dismally by Season 8. I like all seasons of Buffy and find, even the weaker seasons, much less frustrating than Charmed because even when the characters' behaviour is questionable there is still a logic or a reason behind it, and their "change" is explored over time, not for one or two episodes and then dropped. Geez, I even sympathised more with Dark Willow than Dark Phoebe, even though she nearly destroyed the world. As for BtVS Season - yeah, it's not the best but that's because the main plots are cheesy and dated but the character development is still all there. Charmed Seasons 1-2 (and most of S3/S4) are similar in my perspective, there's a lot of cringeworthy stuff but the interaction between the sisters makes up for it. Isn't funny how people's taste can differ so much? Personally I prefer Season 5 to 4 and 6. Although, to be honest, I am still a new fan to Buffy. I didn't grow up with it and so I haven't had the same time to nit-pick Buffy as I have Charmed. I'd be interested to hear what you didn't like about Season 6-7 though. Don't get me wrong I like a lot of BtVS Season 1 but when I rewatch the show I am planning to skip out 'Teacher's Pet', 'I Robot... You, Jane', 'The Puppet Show' and maybe 'Out of Sight, Out of Mind'. So there's still a good 8 out of 12 episodes I like. I just much prefer Season 2 and 3 overall though. But that's usually the case for most tv shows with me. |
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Nimue
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Post by Nimue on Mar 15, 2016 12:32:20 GMT -5
I really like the first four seasons of Buffy, am lukewarm about Season 5, and absolutely cannot stand Seasons 6-7. I really like Season 1, probably because of that typical nineties atmosphere, and don't find anything dated or cheesy, but that's just me. Isn't funny how people's taste can differ so much? Personally I prefer Season 5 to 4 and 6. Although, to be honest, I am still a new fan to Buffy. I didn't grow up with it and so I haven't had the same time to nit-pick Buffy as I have Charmed. I'd be interested to hear what you didn't like about Season 6-7 though. Don't get me wrong I like a lot of BtVS Season 1 but when I rewatch the show I am planning to skip out 'Teacher's Pet', 'I Robot... You, Jane', 'The Puppet Show' and maybe 'Out of Sight, Out of Mind'. So there's still a good 8 out of 12 episodes I like. I just much prefer Season 2 and 3 overall though. But that's usually the case for most tv shows with me.
On the other hand, like you, I do prefer Seasons 2-3. Faith is an awesome character, and Buffy/Angel was heartbreaking.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2016 12:55:22 GMT -5
Isn't funny how people's taste can differ so much? Personally I prefer Season 5 to 4 and 6. Although, to be honest, I am still a new fan to Buffy. I didn't grow up with it and so I haven't had the same time to nit-pick Buffy as I have Charmed. I'd be interested to hear what you didn't like about Season 6-7 though. Don't get me wrong I like a lot of BtVS Season 1 but when I rewatch the show I am planning to skip out 'Teacher's Pet', 'I Robot... You, Jane', 'The Puppet Show' and maybe 'Out of Sight, Out of Mind'. So there's still a good 8 out of 12 episodes I like. I just much prefer Season 2 and 3 overall though. But that's usually the case for most tv shows with me.
On the other hand, like you, I do prefer Seasons 2-3. Faith is an awesome character, and Buffy/Angel was heartbreaking.
I agree Season 6 is quite depressing. I also wasn't a fan of The Trio as villains. I found them stupid. I think I preferred Season 7 although I'm kind of struggling to remember individual episodes as I've not watched it in a while. Yeah, Season 3 is particular was brilliant. I remember thinking when Angel left that that's what Cole should've done. |
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Post by Astral Vision on Mar 15, 2016 13:52:10 GMT -5
I find Season 7 boring, and Season 6 too dark and depressing. I understand why everything happened the way it did, why characters reacted the way they did, but it was all just too much in one season.
On the other hand, like you, I do prefer Seasons 2-3. Faith is an awesome character, and Buffy/Angel was heartbreaking.
I agree Season 6 is quite depressing. I also wasn't a fan of The Trio as villains. I found them stupid. I think I preferred Season 7 although I'm kind of struggling to remember individual episodes as I've not watched it in a while. Yeah, Season 3 is particular was brilliant. I remember thinking when Angel left that that's what Cole should've done. The trio may be really stupid, but the way season 6 deals with the fallout of season five and the start of season 6's series finale (  Tara) are really good. |
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Tara)