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Post by charmedagain4 on Mar 24, 2016 13:23:45 GMT -5
Does anyone else like Victor and Patty being together more than Sam and Patty? I mean, the scenes between Victor and Patty were so awesome and you could see the chemistry between the two. It seemed even after her death, Victor and Patty still had an eternal torch for each other that would never burn out. With that small snippet of Sam and Patty going together in the afterlife, it didn't really affect me too much. I'd much prefer Victor over Sam. I mean, Victor would have to die, but I wouldn't have minded that after about season 5 or 6. I just never saw Sam and Patty being happy in the afterlife. I feel that if Victor died, it would be him and Patty living happily in the afterlife watching over their children and grand-children.
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Post by erikamarie on Mar 24, 2016 13:26:10 GMT -5
There are couples who are more close-knit in maturity than in youth
Victor had finally accepted the magic and this changed their relations
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Post by charmedagain4 on Mar 24, 2016 16:07:44 GMT -5
There are couples who are more close-knit in maturity than in youth Victor had finally accepted the magic and this changed their relations So pretty much acceptance and maturity was two of the key problems in their marriage. If Victor could've accepted magic, Penny would've learned to stop pushing Victor away, and Patty wouldn't have died, then it's possible that they could've gotten back together. I like to think that her getting with Sam was because she didn't think Victor would ever accept magic in their lives and that Sam was the only one who could understand her at the time. But as we saw in the episodes with both Patty and Victor in the series, they understood each other because V ictor accepted magic. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 16:15:51 GMT -5
I think that Sam was originally supposed to be just a one off character. P3H2O was probably the only episode he was supposed to be in.
The only reason his character was brought back was because of Paige.
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Post by charmedagain4 on Mar 24, 2016 16:45:28 GMT -5
I think that Sam was originally supposed to be just a one off character. P3H2O was probably the only episode he was supposed to be in. The only reason his character was brought back was because of Paige. Exactly. So it begs the question if Paige never existed, who do you think Patty was in love with more? At the time, Sam was dead in the afterlife so are we to assume that they were supposed to be together? If yes, then I'm glad Paige exists, Sam was made a whitelighter again and Victor and Patty got closer when she came back to see the girls every now and then. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 16:49:52 GMT -5
I think that Sam was originally supposed to be just a one off character. P3H2O was probably the only episode he was supposed to be in. The only reason his character was brought back was because of Paige. This was likely the case. The original intention of "P3 H2O" was to compare/contrast Piper & Leo with Patty & Sam (remember that the Piper/Leo/Dan triangle was in full swing at the time). It was only later on that the episode took on a new meaning, foreshadowing the possible existence of a fourth, unknown half-sister, as well as Prue succumbing to an early death like Patty. |
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Post by adzpower on Mar 24, 2016 18:55:00 GMT -5
I imagine the reason Patty fell for Sam is because Victor was never accepting of the magic, he didn't like it, and he didn't want his children in danger. It strained their marriage, so she turned to her whitelighter in her solace, had an affair, got pregnant, had Paige and then a year later died. We see in his very first appearance he isn't happy with the magic, and that he disagreed with Grams but without Patty there to mediate between the two he let her run him out of his daughters lives. I wonder if Victor had known that Patty was pregnant with Paige? We see him become more accepting of the magic when he sees his adult daughters able to balance their lives welll with it (at least in the first four seasons). I think the reason Victor was so accepting of Paige is beause he saw how it positively affected Piper and Phoebe, he wanted his remaining daughters to be happy so treated her like one of his own. Victor was a smart man, he knew it wasn't Paige's fault.
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Post by West on Mar 24, 2016 19:14:58 GMT -5
I liked were they ended the two in season 7. Where they talked about what if they raised them.
I would of loved to have seen a what if episode like that.
As for Sam and Patty. Well yes it was a one off appearance by Sam and he only came back because of Paige.
I think i preferred Victor/Patty to Sam/Patty. Only because we got more out of them. We barely saw them together apart ever. And i liked the Victor/Patty relationship and the three episodes they were together in.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 23:33:20 GMT -5
They never saw it coming.
P3H2O ended up saving Charmed's bacon, didn't it. It was easy for them to say: "Oh yeah, Patty and Sam had a daughter."
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Mar 24, 2016 23:54:07 GMT -5
Perhaps Victor's original hostility toward magic stemmed from the fact that Patty had failed to tell him that she was a witch . . . BEFORE they got married. She lied to him a lot, didn't she?
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Post by charmedagain4 on Mar 25, 2016 15:51:51 GMT -5
Perhaps Victor's original hostility toward magic stemmed from the fact that Patty had failed to tell him that she was a witch . . . BEFORE they got married. She lied to him a lot, didn't she? Yes thinking back there were lies in that marriage. I think that contributed to their marriage falling apart. Also, now that I think about it, Victor and Patty's relationship was sort of similar to Andy and Prue's. Both Victor and Andy found out that Patty and Prue were witches later in their relationships. Both didn't understand magic and couldn't fully accept it. Though, Andy was given time and was beginning to be okay only being in a relationship with Prue since she is a witch. Victor and Patty were already married which had more effect on Victor that he didn't find out about Patty's heritage until later in their marriage. Along with that, he had already had a child by Patty when he found out. So I think Victor had it worse than Andy really. So Victor and Patty's marriage sort of paralleled Andy and Prue's relationship. |
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Post by Assassin Witch on Mar 25, 2016 21:05:53 GMT -5
I much prefer Patty/Victor. As mentioned in the thread, their marriage broke because of trust. ljones is spot on. Patty lied and Victor found out when he was married and I believe they either had Prue or Patty was pregnant? That is not a good time to find out something so important. Add in Penny, who hated men and never gave Victor a chance. He reacted (rightfully) badly and Penny pushed on that to pull PV apart. He wasn't really given a fair chance to understand what being with a witch meant, a lot in part to Penny. Also, both PV were young when they married and had Prue. Like mentioned, Victor grew up since the divorce, Patty's death, and abandoning his children (with a shove from Grams). I ignore 1x03. So, Victor's first episode is S3 and I think that was a good push for Victor to try to make things right with Prue. And understand the magical world more.
Every interaction that Patty and Victor have on the show (in the present), makes me giddy. They have FANTASTIC chemistry, and I think that's one of the things that still draws me to them.
And then we have Patty and Sam. As mentioned, that seemed to have stemmed more from her husband rejecting her heritage and her way of life and she needed someone. Someone who was not her mother. And there was Sam. So helpful and understanding. Kind man. And one thing led to another and affair.
Truly, P3H2O is literally the only way Charmed continued. THEY WERE SO LUCKY they set things up. But Paige around does not PS would have ever had a future, even if They wouldn't have interfered and Patty didn't die. Sam was what Patty needed because her husband couldn't deal and her mother helping to push him away and Patty needed an escape. That does not make for a loving, lasting relationship.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2016 19:54:47 GMT -5
Something I wish we had seen more of was the Victor/Sam conflict. Victor clearly hated Sam for ruining his marriage with Patty and possibly even getting her killed. It was enough for him to have developed a hatred and distrust for whitelighters, in general:
From 3x14, "The Good, The Bad, and the Cursed"
The show should've NEVER depicted Victor immediately accepting Paige as if she had been his daughter all along. As the product of the very affair that split him and Patty up, Victor should've hated Paige at first, especially since she also appeared to be "replacing" his own (now deceased) daughter, Prue, in the trio with Piper and Phoebe. As a man still grieving his oldest daughter, the last thing Victor would've ever wanted to see was a child of Sam's in the Manor hanging out with Piper and Phoebe.
An episode dealing with Victor, Sam, and Paige is something that should've been mandatory for Season 4. It's frustrating just how much of Paige's introduction and development had been sacrificed for the sake of giving more screentime to Phoebe/Cole.
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Post by Assassin Witch on Mar 26, 2016 21:54:56 GMT -5
Good times.
I REALLY dislike how easily he accepted Paige, and as a daughter. That is NOT okay. When we were doing Reset Reality, we definitely played on Victor's hatred for Sam and he would NOT accept Paige, no matter how much that upset Piper and Phoebe. Until Paige saved him. And then he started to see her not as Sam or the affair, but started seeing and treating her as a person.
But I will never get over the lack of properly dealing with Victor/Paige.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2016 22:41:58 GMT -5
Good times. I REALLY dislike how easily he accepted Paige, and as a daughter. That is NOT okay. When we were doing Reset Reality, we definitely played on Victor's hatred for Sam and he would NOT accept Paige, no matter how much that upset Piper and Phoebe. Until Paige saved him. And then he started to see her not as Sam or the affair, but started seeing and treating her as a person. But I will never get over the lack of properly dealing with Victor/Paige. I agree. Considering the ugly backstory of Victor/Patty/Sam, as well as the fact that he had just buried his oldest daughter, it just wasn't realistic for Victor to accept Paige at all. This was the living product of the affair that ruined his marriage, and here she was, part-whitelighter and everything, seemingly trying to "replace" his beloved Prue. We needed to see Victor lash out at Paige, as well as have a huge confrontation with Sam, and we also needed to see him learn that no amount of anger will bring either Patty or Prue back and that Paige was not the one who took either of them away from him, kind of like what you did in your series. Of course, this was just one of many ways in which Paige's introduction was horribly rushed, all because Kern refused to scrap his original plan for Season 4 (aka. the Queen of the Underworld story). There were way too many episodes in Season 4 where it was obvious that they had just crossed out "Prue" and replaced it with "Paige" in the script, and Paige's character development suffered as a result. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2016 5:52:59 GMT -5
That's when the Orwellian rewriting of history began: Paige is a Halliwell sister, Paige has always been a Halliwell sister. Her pre-Charmed life, that never happened. Got it  |
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Post by lilchi7212 on Mar 27, 2016 19:22:35 GMT -5
Good times. I REALLY dislike how easily he accepted Paige, and as a daughter. That is NOT okay. When we were doing Reset Reality, we definitely played on Victor's hatred for Sam and he would NOT accept Paige, no matter how much that upset Piper and Phoebe. Until Paige saved him. And then he started to see her not as Sam or the affair, but started seeing and treating her as a person. But I will never get over the lack of properly dealing with Victor/Paige. I agree. Considering the ugly backstory of Victor/Patty/Sam, as well as the fact that he had just buried his oldest daughter, it just wasn't realistic for Victor to accept Paige at all. This was the living product of the affair that ruined his marriage, and here she was, part-whitelighter and everything, seemingly trying to "replace" his beloved Prue. We needed to see Victor lash out at Paige, as well as have a huge confrontation with Sam, and we also needed to see him learn that no amount of anger will bring either Patty or Prue back and that Paige was not the one who took either of them away from him, kind of like what you did in your series. Of course, this was just one of many ways in which Paige's introduction was horribly rushed, all because Kern refused to scrap his original plan for Season 4 (aka. the Queen of the Underworld story). There were way too many episodes in Season 4 where it was obvious that they had just crossed out "Prue" and replaced it with "Paige" in the script, and Paige's character development suffered as a result. For your information they wanted to recast Prue but every actress they talked to turned them down so they had no choice but to go with a new character. The writers made Rose's character rushed since Paige had to learn quick cause you didn't know when the next demon,warlock or darklighter, or even the Source was gonna attack. |
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Post by lilchi7212 on Mar 27, 2016 19:24:43 GMT -5
That's when the Orwellian rewriting of history began: Paige is a Halliwell sister, Paige has always been a Halliwell sister. Her pre-Charmed life, that never happened. Got it That's just what you think cause I never got that that impression at all |
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Post by charmedagain4 on Mar 27, 2016 20:01:00 GMT -5
That's when the Orwellian rewriting of history began: Paige is a Halliwell sister, Paige has always been a Halliwell sister. Her pre-Charmed life, that never happened. Got it That's just what you think cause I never got that that impression at all I think what the person was saying is that the writers basically threw out the fact that Paige wasn't always a Halliwell sister and that the writers forgot that Paige had an adoptive family and a whole other life before meeting the sisters. It seemed like the writers put Paige in Prue's place when we should've been getting more background of Paige's pre-Charmed life. |
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Post by charmedagain4 on Mar 27, 2016 20:06:14 GMT -5
I agree. Considering the ugly backstory of Victor/Patty/Sam, as well as the fact that he had just buried his oldest daughter, it just wasn't realistic for Victor to accept Paige at all. This was the living product of the affair that ruined his marriage, and here she was, part-whitelighter and everything, seemingly trying to "replace" his beloved Prue. We needed to see Victor lash out at Paige, as well as have a huge confrontation with Sam, and we also needed to see him learn that no amount of anger will bring either Patty or Prue back and that Paige was not the one who took either of them away from him, kind of like what you did in your series. Of course, this was just one of many ways in which Paige's introduction was horribly rushed, all because Kern refused to scrap his original plan for Season 4 (aka. the Queen of the Underworld story). There were way too many episodes in Season 4 where it was obvious that they had just crossed out "Prue" and replaced it with "Paige" in the script, and Paige's character development suffered as a result. For your information they wanted to recast Prue but every actress they talked to turned them down so they had no choice but to go with a new character. The writers made Rose's character rushed since Paige had to learn quick cause you didn't know when the next demon,warlock or darklighter, or even the Source was gonna attack. Paige's character was rushed because the writers refused to hold out on Cole/Phoebe/Source storyline which was originally supposed to be at the start of season 4 with Prue, then moved to season 5, but then the writers decided to go ahead with the storyline for the second half of the season anyways. To be quite honest, I don't know why you said that Prue was supposed to be recast but since you brought it up, it helps prove that the writers rushed Paige's character development and pretty much gave Prue's storylines to Paige. |
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