Worst Episodes Seaosn 5

[Too Much Coffee]

Sept 28, 2020 0:16:56 GMT -5 forbuss said:

Does anyone else strongly dislike "Sam I Am"?

I just don't like Sam. I find it impossible to understand what Patty ever saw in him. He's kindof a jerk.

Funny that we know little to nothing about their relationship period, only that they were together, they have never had any flashback or scenes together outside of when Patty died and Patty and Sam going into the afterlife, and the letters. 

[Elle Em]

I think the main thing Patty and Sam had going for them was that each understood and accepted the other. I think Victor heavily resented magic, and Sam was magical himself so he and Patty could confide in each other. 

I find him difficult to like, however. I can understand that he's pretty messed up from losing Patty and Paige, dealing with alcoholism, and just the idea that he was born so long ago and has been in the world for such a long time. But still, his personality is a bit much. He was obsessed with Patty's death for decades, and then he barely sees Paige at all despite having the means to. 

I found Victor to be much more likable, and he and Patty had nice chemistry. But it would be interesting to have had flashbacks of Patty and Sam together rather than just someone telling the story or hearing Piper and Leo read their letters. 

[forbuss]

Sept 28, 2020 8:25:24 GMT -5 Elle Em said:

I think the main thing Patty and Sam had going for them was that each understood and accepted the other. I think Victor heavily resented magic, and Sam was magical himself so he and Patty could confide in each other. 

I find him difficult to like, however. I can understand that he's pretty messed up from losing Patty and Paige, dealing with alcoholism, and just the idea that he was born so long ago and has been in the world for such a long time. But still, his personality is a bit much. He was obsessed with Patty's death for decades, and then he barely sees Paige at all despite having the means to. 

I found Victor to be much more likable, and he and Patty had nice chemistry. But it would be interesting to have had flashbacks of Patty and Sam together rather than just someone telling the story or hearing Piper and Leo read their letters. 

It's pretty clear to me that Patty and Victor were "meant to be". I love Victor so much - possibly my favourite part of "Forever Charmed" was all of Patty and Victors interactions. I also love their interaction in the sibling rivalry episode when Victor tells Penny to get Patty there to be a tie breaker. God I love Patty.

I get that Victor didn't like magic, he probably didn't fully understand it. I think Grams really chased him out. We do have to place some blame on Victor for not being there, but Penny should have put aside her feelings about him, especially after Patty died. It would have been nice for the girls to have Victor in there lives more after her death.

[Elle Em]

I can't say if Patty and Sam were the better couple, just because we never saw them together. But I do think that Patty and Victor fit together really well. 

I wish we had more of an explanation for why he wasn't there for his daughters. Grams not getting along with him doesn't seem to be a good enough reason. 

[Melinda Halliwell]

I liked Patty and Victor's interactions also and wished he'd been around more for his daughters too.

At least he made that up for with Wyatt and Chris in the future Chris spoke off.

Barring the fact Penny didn't like Victor clearly could the fact he was non magical be one possibility why Victor didn't hang around then because he knew he couldn't protect his daughter from evil like Penny then case in point with the Ice Cream van although he did get young Prue back or perhaps Patty dying really affected him and seeing his daughters reminded him of her so he left though that wouldn't be a good reason him to do so for me because Prue, Piper, and Phoebe were his flesh and blood after all then.

[BewitchingBeauties87]

I just started watching season 5 for the first time and ages and already I can't believe how awful Phoebe comes across. She made a joke about vanquishing her husband to hell as a way of perking herself up? Really?!?!? And then reminding everyone about her giant billboard in downtown San Francisco? I actually liked season 4 (despite Phoebe) but season 5 is getting off to an awful start. And the 2nd part of the terrible twins (Piper) is already making loud noises about her pregnancy. Sorry to come across as negative but this must be the season these two became executive producers. I almost wish this was a Twilight Zone episode where I can be sure the jerk character gets his/her comeuppance by the end of the story.

[Esmeralda]

Sept 28, 2020 11:51:56 GMT -5 Elle Em said:

I can't say if Patty and Sam were the better couple, just because we never saw them together. But I do think that Patty and Victor fit together really well. 

I wish we had more of an explanation for why he wasn't there for his daughters. Grams not getting along with him doesn't seem to be a good enough reason. 

I've always thought that Penny cast a spell on him to keep him away, especially since she knew (thanks to 'That 70s Episode') that the girls would become Charmed.

But I think not having him around is why the Halliwells (not Paige) did such a bad job choosing their boyfriends, always choosing ones who were the worst for them. Paige was lucky not to be part of that family.

[Melinda Halliwell]

That's why a lot of people dislike season 5 BewitichingBeauties because of the way Cole was written and treated by the sisters and how Phoebe never admitted her part in what she played regarding Cole being the Source and her Queen Of The Underworld.

This season would've been perfect for her to quit her job at the Bay Mirror and rediscover herself and her love for magic before like other members have said here she took on the temp jobs in season 6 instead of Paige perhaps who still worked in social services had taken the promotion Mr. Cowan offered the second episode of season 5.

For me, anything introducing the magic community was my least favourite episode just because of how they were portrayed and written barring the Eyes Have It which I liked of course.

If you're going to do anything mythology based at least research and understand that properly beforehand thank you.

[BewitchingBeauties87]

Jun 14, 2021 4:26:06 GMT -5 Melinda Halliwell said:

That's why a lot of people dislike season 5 BewitichingBeauties because of the way Cole was written and treated by the sisters and how Phoebe never admitted her part in what she played regarding Cole being the Source and her Queen Of The Underworld.

This season would've been perfect for her to quit her job at the Bay Mirror and rediscover herself and her love for magic before like other members have said here she took on the temp jobs in season 6 instead of Paige perhaps who still worked in social services had taken the promotion Mr. Cowan offered the second episode of season 5.

For me, anything introducing the magic community was my least favourite episode just because of how they were portrayed and written barring the Eyes Have It which I liked of course.

If you're going to do anything mythology based at least research and understand that properly beforehand thank you.

Hi Melinda!  Thank you for filling me on what others think here as I'm still a newbie and i'm not sure what the prevailing vibe is here in regards to some of these Charmed issues.  

One other question perhaps you or someone else could help me with.....wasn't Cole turning into the Source an act completely out of his control??  When the Charmed ones vanquished the previous source the source's soul went into Cole's body without anything Cole could do to prevent it?

If that's the case I feel like the writers of the show completely glossed over that fact.  I felt it was just taken as Cole still being somewhat evil because of his past as a half demon/half human and no one even mentioned that the poor guy actually wanted to be good and never had a chance because the source possessed his body.  And then the poor guy ends up in demon limbo being tormented and actually saves Phoebe's life despite the fact that she has pretty much given up on him and encouraged him to make peace with his fate??  

P.S. I didn't like a Witch's Tail (i felt it was a rehash of the Prue episode when her mother's appears to her while she is drowning) but i did like how the ending seems to indicate Phoebe is completely over Cole and they will now go their separate ways.  

[cookieheart]

Jun 14, 2021 8:40:39 GMT -5 BewitchingBeauties87 said:

Jun 14, 2021 4:26:06 GMT -5 Melinda Halliwell said:

That's why a lot of people dislike season 5 BewitichingBeauties because of the way Cole was written and treated by the sisters and how Phoebe never admitted her part in what she played regarding Cole being the Source and her Queen Of The Underworld.

This season would've been perfect for her to quit her job at the Bay Mirror and rediscover herself and her love for magic before like other members have said here she took on the temp jobs in season 6 instead of Paige perhaps who still worked in social services had taken the promotion Mr. Cowan offered the second episode of season 5.

For me, anything introducing the magic community was my least favourite episode just because of how they were portrayed and written barring the Eyes Have It which I liked of course.

If you're going to do anything mythology based at least research and understand that properly beforehand thank you.

Hi Melinda!  Thank you for filling me on what others think here as I'm still a newbie and i'm not sure what the prevailing vibe is here in regards to some of these Charmed issues.  

One other question perhaps you or someone else could help me with.....wasn't Cole turning into the Source an act completely out of his control??  When the Charmed ones vanquished the previous source the source's soul went into Cole's body without anything Cole could do to prevent it?

If that's the case I feel like the writers of the show completely glossed over that fact.  I felt it was just taken as Cole still being somewhat evil because of his past as a half demon/half human and no one even mentioned that the poor guy actually wanted to be good and never had a chance because the source possessed his body.  And then the poor guy ends up in demon limbo being tormented and actually saves Phoebe's life despite the fact that she has pretty much given up on him and encouraged him to make peace with his fate??  

P.S. I didn't like a Witch's Tail (i felt it was a rehash of the Prue episode when her mother's appears to her while she is drowning) but i did like how the ending seems to indicate Phoebe is completely over Cole and they will now go their separate ways.  

Cole turning into the Source was out of his control, but he didn’t really fight it either. He tried once to transfer the source to the wizard before his coronation as the source (which Phoebe stopped by vanquishing the wizard), but the rest of the time he more or less accepted and maybe even embraced it as long as Phoebe was save in his eyes. I still think they should have tried to get the source out of him since he was a mortal underneath all that and killing the mortal part of Cole should have been against the rules, but that is another issue altogether.

[Melinda Halliwell]

It is and I agree now way should the sisters have outrightly killed Cole before at least working out how he became the Source then finding out tried to get the Source's powers out of Cole making him human again and if that didn't work then vanquish him so it looked like they tried to save him at least.

[BewitchingBeauties87]

I just finished Nymps just want to have fun and that might be a new contender for worst episode of season 5. Phoebe ruins season 5 for me. Her increasingly trashy outfits (pants so low you can almost see her pelvis) and a boring romantic story lines with the wannabee James Dean guy make it hard for me to care about her this season.  Gawd I miss season 1.  

[BriannaWarren2.0]

Jun 24, 2021 17:31:13 GMT -5 BewitchingBeauties87 said:

I just finished Nymps just want to have fun and that might be a new contender for worst episode of season 5. Phoebe ruins season 5 for me. Her increasingly trashy outfits (pants so low you can almost see her pelvis) and a boring romantic story lines with the wannabee James Dean guy make it hard for me to care about her this season.  Gawd I miss season 1.  

I think this season could have been well done, if they focused on Phoebe grieving for Cole and her child, maybe going back to the apartment and seeing the baby clothes they had purchased together, the photographs they had taken, the sonogram and everything relating to them, with Phoebe then refocusing her energy on her craft and writing a letter to Cole and their child.

Or have her be a single mother to the baby and trying to raise the baby good, you can still have the Crone be the main villain in season six with the Crone wanting her name to be in the demonic history books. Maybe this could bring on a feud with the Elders? Having Phoebe be morally grey with accepting demons as friends, you could still have Derrick, maybe he gives parental wisdom to Phoebe with having a half-demon baby.

Maybe this could bring on the misdirection with Phoebe believing she is having a son but in the end she has a girl. 

PS:
I miss season one too, I miss the gothic style. 

[BewitchingBeauties87]

Jul 18, 2021 9:37:41 GMT -5 BriannaWarren2.0 said:

Jun 24, 2021 17:31:13 GMT -5 BewitchingBeauties87 said:

I just finished Nymps just want to have fun and that might be a new contender for worst episode of season 5. Phoebe ruins season 5 for me. Her increasingly trashy outfits (pants so low you can almost see her pelvis) and a boring romantic story lines with the wannabee James Dean guy make it hard for me to care about her this season.  Gawd I miss season 1.  

I think this season could have been well done, if they focused on Phoebe grieving for Cole and her child, maybe going back to the apartment and seeing the baby clothes they had purchased together, the photographs they had taken, the sonogram and everything relating to them, with Phoebe then refocusing her energy on her craft and writing a letter to Cole and their child.

Or have her be a single mother to the baby and trying to raise the baby good, you can still have the Crone be the main villain in season six with the Crone wanting her name to be in the demonic history books. Maybe this could bring on a feud with the Elders? Having Phoebe be morally grey with accepting demons as friends, you could still have Derrick, maybe he gives parental wisdom to Phoebe with having a half-demon baby.

Maybe this could bring on the misdirection with Phoebe believing she is having a son but in the end she has a girl. 

PS:
I miss season one too, I miss the gothic style. 

Hi Brianna!  Sounds like you should have been a writer on the show.  All the ideas you came up with sound very promising, WAY better than the stuff the writers ultimately came up with in season 5. 


P.S. I don't like saying this, because i like the actor and character a lot, but I feel like having Cole on the show was a double edged sword for Charmed.  His presence was initially interesting, because he was a good actor with an interesting/emotional backstory, however i feel like he also stole too much of the limelight from the Charmed ones beginning in season 3.  And ultimately, it was their show, not his.  And even worse, his romance with Phoebe marked a turning point for Phoebe, before he showed up I loved her, after he appeared I slowly started to actively root against her.  Also, since the writers clearly had no idea what they were doing beginning in season 5, they ultimately made me hate Cole, too, as his stalker subplot in season 5 became downright irritating/unpleasant.  

[BriannaWarren2.0]

Jul 19, 2021 8:15:01 GMT -5 BewitchingBeauties87 said:

Jul 18, 2021 9:37:41 GMT -5 BriannaWarren2.0 said:

I think this season could have been well done, if they focused on Phoebe grieving for Cole and her child, maybe going back to the apartment and seeing the baby clothes they had purchased together, the photographs they had taken, the sonogram and everything relating to them, with Phoebe then refocusing her energy on her craft and writing a letter to Cole and their child.

Or have her be a single mother to the baby and trying to raise the baby good, you can still have the Crone be the main villain in season six with the Crone wanting her name to be in the demonic history books. Maybe this could bring on a feud with the Elders? Having Phoebe be morally grey with accepting demons as friends, you could still have Derrick, maybe he gives parental wisdom to Phoebe with having a half-demon baby.

Maybe this could bring on the misdirection with Phoebe believing she is having a son but in the end she has a girl. 

PS:
I miss season one too, I miss the gothic style. 

Hi Brianna!  Sounds like you should have been a writer on the show.  All the ideas you came up with sound very promising, WAY better than the stuff the writers ultimately came up with in season 5. 


P.S. I don't like saying this, because i like the actor and character a lot, but I feel like having Cole on the show was a double edged sword for Charmed.  His presence was initially interesting, because he was a good actor with an interesting/emotional backstory, however i feel like he also stole too much of the limelight from the Charmed ones beginning in season 3.  And ultimately, it was their show, not his.  And even worse, his romance with Phoebe marked a turning point for Phoebe, before he showed up I loved her, after he appeared I slowly started to actively root against her.  Also, since the writers clearly had no idea what they were doing beginning in season 5, they ultimately made me hate Cole, too, as his stalker subplot in season 5 became downright irritating/unpleasant.  

Oh, how I would love that, I am glad you like my ideas. 

That's perfectly okay, I agree that the focus wasn't on the sisters however I would have written more Cole and Leo c-plots so they aren't the main focus, they can be off doing their own thing, maybe getting a drink or doing side missions for the sisters, so that sisterhood can be the main focus. 

The writing for the sisters partners is way off what I would have written, I love Cole and Phoebe together, I found their relationship beautiful and would have wanted it explored better.      

[BewitchingBeauties87]

Jul 19, 2021 10:05:30 GMT -5 BriannaWarren2.0 said:

Jul 19, 2021 8:15:01 GMT -5 BewitchingBeauties87 said:

Hi Brianna!  Sounds like you should have been a writer on the show.  All the ideas you came up with sound very promising, WAY better than the stuff the writers ultimately came up with in season 5. 


P.S. I don't like saying this, because i like the actor and character a lot, but I feel like having Cole on the show was a double edged sword for Charmed.  His presence was initially interesting, because he was a good actor with an interesting/emotional backstory, however i feel like he also stole too much of the limelight from the Charmed ones beginning in season 3.  And ultimately, it was their show, not his.  And even worse, his romance with Phoebe marked a turning point for Phoebe, before he showed up I loved her, after he appeared I slowly started to actively root against her.  Also, since the writers clearly had no idea what they were doing beginning in season 5, they ultimately made me hate Cole, too, as his stalker subplot in season 5 became downright irritating/unpleasant.  

Oh, how I would love that, I am glad you like my ideas. 

That's perfectly okay, I agree that the focus wasn't on the sisters however I would have written more Cole and Leo c-plots so they aren't the main focus, they can be off doing their own thing, maybe getting a drink or doing side missions for the sisters, so that sisterhood can be the main focus. 

The writing for the sisters partners is way off what I would have written, I love Cole and Phoebe together, I found their relationship beautiful and would have wanted it explored better.      

i would have revised their relationship by making it more along the lines of Romeo and Juliet - a tragic romance.  Cole seemed doomed anyway, so why not have Phoebe and Cole fall in love while she is supposed to be vanquishing him, and then the baby is coming and the tragedy starts.  First, Phoebe has hidden her relationship from everyone, including her sisters, but when she gets pregnant it becomes impossible to deny the demon heritage of the baby.  Next, once her secret is revealed, the elders issue an ultimatum that Phoebe must vanquish Cole and her baby or else the Charmed ones will be deemed enemies.  This puts Phoebe in an impossible situation, something that could have been avoided if she resisted Cole's seductive charms (sorry, couldn't help being a little silly here lol), however she is torn between loyalty to her sisters and her responsibilities as a witch, and her love for her baby and Cole.  It would be a heart wrenching situation that would pull at the audience's heartstrings.  

Anyway, I think that would have been more interesting than just having the Seer tell Phoebe, "yeah, the baby was never yours to begin with, i'll just take that please", which was a cop out on the part of the writers.  And then, as you mentioned, Phoebe doesn't seem at all emotionally devastated to have lost the baby she carried, she just takes it in stride. 

[BriannaWarren2.0]

Jul 19, 2021 15:31:07 GMT -5 BewitchingBeauties87 said:

Jul 19, 2021 10:05:30 GMT -5 BriannaWarren2.0 said:

Oh, how I would love that, I am glad you like my ideas. 

That's perfectly okay, I agree that the focus wasn't on the sisters however I would have written more Cole and Leo c-plots so they aren't the main focus, they can be off doing their own thing, maybe getting a drink or doing side missions for the sisters, so that sisterhood can be the main focus. 

The writing for the sisters partners is way off what I would have written, I love Cole and Phoebe together, I found their relationship beautiful and would have wanted it explored better.      

i would have revised their relationship by making it more along the lines of Romeo and Juliet - a tragic romance.  Cole seemed doomed anyway, so why not have Phoebe and Cole fall in love while she is supposed to be vanquishing him, and then the baby is coming and the tragedy starts.  First, Phoebe has hidden her relationship from everyone, including her sisters, but when she gets pregnant it becomes impossible to deny the demon heritage of the baby.  Next, once her secret is revealed, the elders issue an ultimatum that Phoebe must vanquish Cole and her baby or else the Charmed ones will be deemed enemies.  This puts Phoebe in an impossible situation, something that could have been avoided if she resisted Cole's seductive charms (sorry, couldn't help being a little silly here lol), however she is torn between loyalty to her sisters and her responsibilities as a witch, and her love for her baby and Cole.  It would be a heart wrenching situation that would pull at the audience's heartstrings.  

Anyway, I think that would have been more interesting than just having the Seer tell Phoebe, "yeah, the baby was never yours to begin with, i'll just take that please", which was a cop out on the part of the writers.  And then, as you mentioned, Phoebe doesn't seem at all emotionally devastated to have lost the baby she carried, she just takes it in stride. 

I love that more than my ideas! Maybe you should have been a writer! I think the Seer was lying about that and Phoebe just accepted it.

[Esmeralda]

Jun 13, 2021 18:38:23 GMT -5 BewitchingBeauties87 said:

I just started watching season 5 for the first time and ages and already I can't believe how awful Phoebe comes across. She made a joke about vanquishing her husband to hell as a way of perking herself up? Really?!?!? And then reminding everyone about her giant billboard in downtown San Francisco? I actually liked season 4 (despite Phoebe) but season 5 is getting off to an awful start. And the 2nd part of the terrible twins (Piper) is already making loud noises about her pregnancy. Sorry to come across as negative but this must be the season these two became executive producers. I almost wish this was a Twilight Zone episode where I can be sure the jerk character gets his/her comeuppance by the end of the story.

You're absolutely right, BB87, this IS the season when Holly and Alyssa became producers. Not executive producers, but most fans believe that Holly turned Piper into an idealized version of herself while Alyssa turned Phoebe into an idealized version of herself, the reason why they're nothing like they were earlier. They actually thought they had turned them into great characters that the fans would love! *shudder*

Fortunately other fans have discovered both Classic Charmed and this site and, like you, have helped us keep the site going.

[The Crone]

Jul 20, 2021 17:36:26 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Jun 13, 2021 18:38:23 GMT -5 BewitchingBeauties87 said:

I just started watching season 5 for the first time and ages and already I can't believe how awful Phoebe comes across. She made a joke about vanquishing her husband to hell as a way of perking herself up? Really?!?!? And then reminding everyone about her giant billboard in downtown San Francisco? I actually liked season 4 (despite Phoebe) but season 5 is getting off to an awful start. And the 2nd part of the terrible twins (Piper) is already making loud noises about her pregnancy. Sorry to come across as negative but this must be the season these two became executive producers. I almost wish this was a Twilight Zone episode where I can be sure the jerk character gets his/her comeuppance by the end of the story.

You're absolutely right, BB87, this IS the season when Holly and Alyssa became producers. Not executive producers, but most fans believe that Holly turned Piper into an idealized version of herself while Alyssa turned Phoebe into an idealized version of herself, the reason why they're nothing like they were earlier. They actually thought they had turned them into great characters that the fans would love! *shudder*

Fortunately other fans have discovered both Classic Charmed and this site and, like you, have helped us keep the site going.

*Sigh* Isn't that the truth.

It sure sounds like they think they turned them into characters love would love. Whenever former writers talk about how horrible their experiences were in the writers room and disagreed with the writing. Alyssa and Holly feel the need to defend and I get the impression feel like don't get why people dislike the characters and storylines in the later seasons.

It's why I just don't believe anything they claim these days. They are starting to change their tune from years ago.

[Elle Em]

The ironic thing about Holly and Alyssa becoming producers and putting themselves into their characters is that a lot of fans, myself definitely included, feel their best interpretations of their characters was when they had no input at all. I adore season 1 Piper and Phoebe, and there is next to no trace of the actresses in the characters from that season. Both of them did so well portraying the characters then. Any time I've ever seen Holly or Alyssa in interviews, their real personalities are nothing like their season 1 characters.

I complain a lot about how much their characters became unlikeable and about how at least part of that was the fault of the actresses, but they are actually wonderful actresses who brought early Piper and Phoebe to life like not many other people could. Look at Lori Rom's attempt to play Phoebe in the pilot and how it felt like such a flat performance, or even how if Holly had gotten the part of Phoebe, it wouldn't have been the same or as good as how Alyssa did it, or vice versa. I wish those two had just stayed actresses because that's where they really shine.