Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920 
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 21, 2021 7:58:28 GMT -5
The ironic thing about Holly and Alyssa becoming producers and putting themselves into their characters is that a lot of fans, myself definitely included, feel their best interpretations of their characters was when they had no input at all. I adore season 1 Piper and Phoebe, and there is next to no trace of the actresses in the characters from that season. Both of them did so well portraying the characters then. Any time I've ever seen Holly or Alyssa in interviews, their real personalities are nothing like their season 1 characters. I complain a lot about how much their characters became unlikeable and about how at least part of that was the fault of the actresses, but they are actually wonderful actresses who brought early Piper and Phoebe to life like not many other people could. Look at Lori Rom's attempt to play Phoebe in the pilot and how it felt like such a flat performance, or even how if Holly had gotten the part of Phoebe, it wouldn't have been the same or as good as how Alyssa did it, or vice versa. I wish those two had just stayed actresses because that's where they really shine. *nods* Amen!!! Although I keep saying it - in a lot of ways I'm glad they became producers and were so horrible at it. I truly believe that if the last four seasons (five for me, but not most fans) were as great as the first four (three for me) this site would've died years ago, maybe decades ago, and I love it and the people I meet here so much! |
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Post by BewitchingBeauties87 on Jul 21, 2021 8:55:08 GMT -5
Yeah, I have already mentioned this, but I loved Piper in season 1. So much. She and Phoebe were my favorites in season 1. I liked Prue as well, but she seemed a little too uptight in season 1, which makes sense because of her stressful job/her anger with her father, not to mention the fact she was the surrogate mother of the group. But back to Piper, I especially LOVED her character in the John Cho episode. They had such great chemistry. Way better than Leo and Piper. Of course, i know it's pretty easy to love something that only exists for a short period of time (because you can idealize it) but it was such a memorable relationship in my eyes. Later on, when Holly Marie Combs seemingly stopped acting and just made Piper an extension of herself , she became so snarky and unlikable, that I started to dislike (maybe hate?) Leo and Piper. If you pay attention Charmed always does this silly, dishonest thing which involves Piper and Leo having a fake tender moment at the very end of an episode, the scene usually ending with them staring longingly into each other's eyes as the credits roll, which is supposed to make us, the audience, forget how unlikable they were as a couple for the first 40 minutes of the episode. And to further that point, I'm watching Charmed with a friend, who actually likes Leo and Piper as a couple (barf), and when they have their "breakup" at the end of season 5 ("Oh My Goddess") she was literally bawling next to me. I looked at her like she was crazy lol. To me it has been evident for quite some time that Leo and Piper do not have a healthy relationship, and would be better off going their separate ways. Because the amount of time she spends nagging the poor guy, and the amount of time they spend being estranged from each other, just makes me long for season 1 and John Cho/Piper again  |
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Post by The Crone on Jul 21, 2021 9:28:21 GMT -5
I really loved Piper and Mark. I really loved the chemistry Holly and John Cho had in one episode versus years of Holly/Brian. If I had to pick Piper's true love, I'd want it to be him. Fanfic can do so much with them.
Leo and Piper had a VERY unhealthy relationship and honestly needed to go their separate ways. Leo loved being a whitelighter, as we saw he was miserable being mortal in S2, and wanted to get his wings back because his true calling is helping people as a whitelighter. Piper would be so much happier with someone non-magical to give her the normal life she always wanted.
Piper and Leo's relationship was sweet in the first season only up until Piper finds out he is a whitelighter in Love Hurts. Once she does, I don't think Piper loved the whitelighter, just the man.
Honestly, I think Piper was happiest and the most likable in Season 1 pre-learning Leo is a whitelighter. She was great with Dan when Leo was gone, and started smiling more again (something she doesn't do with Leo), and seemed happy.
I don't know why, but am I the only one here, who when they re-watched Love Hurts, noticed that Piper's personality shifted. The second she discovers he is a whitelighter I saw early shades of the horrid and whiny Piper from the later years who I hated. It seems like Leo being a whitelighter destroyed her world, and her perfect fantasy, of what she dreamed of in life in marrying and being with a non-magical normal guy, which Piper thought Leo was before she discovered he was a whitelighter.
She tried to make it work but picked Dan, it didn't work out. But notice that Piper picked Leo when he WAS mortal. Because in her mind, maybe she thought now that Leo is mortal she'd get her perfect fantasy and only ever loved Leo for the man, not the whitelighter.
If I had it my way. Leo would never come back after Love Hurts. Piper and Leo go their separate ways. That would be so much better for both characters and the show moving forward.
Maybe the sisters would be better off with Natalie as their whitelighter instead, at least she'd do her job, and keep them in line. And not break the rules for them when it comes to healing and orbing. A true authority figure and not a love interest.
But If I had a choice, I'd vote no whitelighters. The sisters would just continue to use the book of shadows, and their own research for answers. Or even using the spirit board to get help from Grams, Patty, or contacting their ancestors for guidance. Instead of the boring and predictable way of Leo checking with the Elders all the time.
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Post by Elle Em on Jul 21, 2021 10:42:29 GMT -5
I don't know why, but am I the only one here, who when they re-watched Love Hurts, noticed that Piper's personality shifted. The second she discovers he is a whitelighter I saw early shades of the horrid and whiny Piper from the later years who I hated. It seems like Leo being a whitelighter destroyed her world, and her perfect fantasy, of what she dreamed of in life in marrying and being with a non-magical normal guy, which Piper thought Leo was before she discovered he was a whitelighter. You are definitely not the only one. I noticed this too on my last rewatch. I hated how she was impatient with him while he was laying there dying. And then after he did die, and Piper is blaming him for it to Phoebe, Phoebe asks in this sad and defeated voice, "How can you be mad at him right now?" Piper somehow managed to make herself the victim in a scenario where someone else suffered and died, all because he lied about who he really was, only coming back into her life when he and Daisy needed help and had nowhere else to turn. |
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Post by The Crone on Jul 22, 2021 19:13:10 GMT -5
I don't know why, but am I the only one here, who when they re-watched Love Hurts, noticed that Piper's personality shifted. The second she discovers he is a whitelighter I saw early shades of the horrid and whiny Piper from the later years who I hated. It seems like Leo being a whitelighter destroyed her world, and her perfect fantasy, of what she dreamed of in life in marrying and being with a non-magical normal guy, which Piper thought Leo was before she discovered he was a whitelighter. You are definitely not the only one. I noticed this too on my last rewatch. I hated how she was impatient with him while he was laying there dying. And then after he did die, and Piper is blaming him for it to Phoebe, Phoebe asks in this sad and defeated voice, "How can you be mad at him right now?" Piper somehow managed to make herself the victim in a scenario where someone else suffered and died, all because he lied about who he really was, only coming back into her life when he and Daisy needed help and had nowhere else to turn. Very happy to see I'm not the only one here. I know at Reddit and other fan communities I've always been in the minority. I know, she was making it all about herself and her needs than caring about Leo who was dying. I've always felt Piper and Leo bring out the worst in each other, both characters are more likeable when they are not paired together. I tend to enjoy Leo's scenes more when he is playing whitelighter and guiding or interacting with Phoebe or Paige than Piper. Same with Piper for the most, like for instance during season 2, I find I love her best when she isn't with Leo. And in A Paige of the Past, loving her team up with Darryl while Leo is helping Paige in the past. Maybe Piper and Leo's relationship would be better served if they were not lovers but having a bickering sibling like relationship. They sure came across as that most of the time to me. Didn't Holly know Brian before Charmed, I saw in an interview or I might be mixing it up, that she and Brian have always have this sibling like relationship which is why they are close in real life. I sure don't see romantic chemistry between them most of the time, just sibling chemistry especially when they fight. Funny that in real life it was Alyssa and Brian who dated, as did Shannen and Julian. I saw more chemistry between them on-screen, than their on-screen character match-ups that we got. |
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Post by Elle Em on Jul 23, 2021 8:21:30 GMT -5
Very happy to see I'm not the only one here. I know at Reddit and other fan communities I've always been in the minority. I know, she was making it all about herself and her needs than caring about Leo who was dying. I've always felt Piper and Leo bring out the worst in each other, both characters are more likeable when they are not paired together. I tend to enjoy Leo's scenes more when he is playing whitelighter and guiding or interacting with Phoebe or Paige than Piper. Same with Piper for the most, like for instance during season 2, I find I love her best when she isn't with Leo. And in A Paige of the Past, loving her team up with Darryl while Leo is helping Paige in the past. Maybe Piper and Leo's relationship would be better served if they were not lovers but having a bickering sibling like relationship. They sure came across as that most of the time to me. Didn't Holly know Brian before Charmed, I saw in an interview or I might be mixing it up, that she and Brian have always have this sibling like relationship which is why they are close in real life. I sure don't see romantic chemistry between them most of the time, just sibling chemistry especially when they fight. Funny that in real life it was Alyssa and Brian who dated, as did Shannen and Julian. I saw more chemistry between them on-screen, than their on-screen character match-ups that we got. Yeah, I've found that Reddit's Charmed page is not the best place for in-depth discussion. From my experience, mostly it's just about how much everyone loves sassy Piper and talking about how hot they find Chris. I agree that Piper and Leo don't make a very good couple. There's always too much of a strain on their relationship for it to be healthy. Leo's duties as a whitelighter go against Piper's most basic wishes for how she wants her life to be. There's so much stress between them that I think they both would have been happier without the other. I like the idea of them having a sibling-like relationship or being friends. I wish Piper had stayed how she was in season 1, and she and Leo could be close friends without being a couple. I always found that Leo had the most interesting chemistry with Phoebe. Perhaps it's their real life relationship showing on the screen, but I could always feel their closeness. I thought he had good chemistry with Paige as well. Brian and Holly are clearly comfortable with each other, but there's no excitement there. And we didn't see him enough with Prue for them to develop a strong relationship. I wish Piper had stayed who she was in season 1, and ended up with someone who was also sweet and kind, like Mark. Or if she developed into more of who we saw later in the show, she needed to be with someone who wouldn't let her treat them as a doormat. She treated Dan badly, but she was never intentionally cruel to him the way she was with Leo. She needed to be with someone who would stand up to her and make her see when she was being too harsh, and Leo clearly was not going to do that. |
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Post by The Crone on Jul 23, 2021 9:00:22 GMT -5
Very happy to see I'm not the only one here. I know at Reddit and other fan communities I've always been in the minority. I know, she was making it all about herself and her needs than caring about Leo who was dying. I've always felt Piper and Leo bring out the worst in each other, both characters are more likeable when they are not paired together. I tend to enjoy Leo's scenes more when he is playing whitelighter and guiding or interacting with Phoebe or Paige than Piper. Same with Piper for the most, like for instance during season 2, I find I love her best when she isn't with Leo. And in A Paige of the Past, loving her team up with Darryl while Leo is helping Paige in the past. Maybe Piper and Leo's relationship would be better served if they were not lovers but having a bickering sibling like relationship. They sure came across as that most of the time to me. Didn't Holly know Brian before Charmed, I saw in an interview or I might be mixing it up, that she and Brian have always have this sibling like relationship which is why they are close in real life. I sure don't see romantic chemistry between them most of the time, just sibling chemistry especially when they fight. Funny that in real life it was Alyssa and Brian who dated, as did Shannen and Julian. I saw more chemistry between them on-screen, than their on-screen character match-ups that we got. Yeah, I've found that Reddit's Charmed page is not the best place for in-depth discussion. From my experience, mostly it's just about how much everyone loves sassy Piper and talking about how hot they find Chris. I agree that Piper and Leo don't make a very good couple. There's always too much of a strain on their relationship for it to be healthy. Leo's duties as a whitelighter go against Piper's most basic wishes for how she wants her life to be. There's so much stress between them that I think they both would have been happier without the other. I like the idea of them having a sibling-like relationship or being friends. I wish Piper had stayed how she was in season 1, and she and Leo could be close friends without being a couple. I always found that Leo had the most interesting chemistry with Phoebe. Perhaps it's their real life relationship showing on the screen, but I could always feel their closeness. I thought he had good chemistry with Paige as well. Brian and Holly are clearly comfortable with each other, but there's no excitement there. And we didn't see him enough with Prue for them to develop a strong relationship. I wish Piper had stayed who she was in season 1, and ended up with someone who was also sweet and kind, like Mark. Or if she developed into more of who we saw later in the show, she needed to be with someone who wouldn't let her treat them as a doormat. She treated Dan badly, but she was never intentionally cruel to him the way she was with Leo. She needed to be with someone who would stand up to her and make her see when she was being too harsh, and Leo clearly was not going to do that. Thank you. I'm so glad I'm not the only one who felt that way about Reddit. I used to be a member, but after bad experiences (and getting bored with the boring I love Chris, trashing Prue for no reason and sassy Piper posts), I left the Reddit page. I like the discussions here, as I feel everyone respects each others opinions. I haven't seen much of the reboot (past the first three episodes). But I liked that their whitelighter appeared to be just a guide and was more from what I saw a authority figure/brother like figure. That's how I wished Leo had been like. Me too, I really wished Piper stayed like she was in season 1, she was so much more fun, when the only drama in her life was whatever was happening at Quake, and being the sister with the witty funny lines. If she and Leo had been close friends, without being a couple, both would be much better characters. If anyone should be matched with Leo it was Phoebe or Paige, but probably Phoebe because they had the more interesting chemistry. As you said perhaps that came through due to Brian and Alyssa's real life relationship showing on the scree. That's a good point you bring up. We didn't see enough of Prue and Leo's relationship, they didn't a develop a strong relationship. Yeah, I'm with you on that what kind of person Piper should end up with. S1 Piper should end up with someone who was like Mark. She really needed someone who would stand up to her for how she treats them. I can't think of an example of someone from the show that could be a good ft for her if she developed more into who we saw later in the series. |
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Aaeiyn
Elder
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 5,554
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Post by Aaeiyn on Aug 22, 2021 4:08:01 GMT -5
The 8 episodes I picked (in no particular order): Witches in Tights A Witch in Time House Call Lucky Charmed Nymphs Just Wanna Have Fun Necromancing the Stone Oh My Goddess Pt 1 & 2 Yes, I'm not a fan of these episodes, of S5. I like some of the others, though. EDIT: Also, in response to The Crone , I have the opposite experience, on Reddit. There's quite a bit of Prue praise and constant discussion about disliking Phoebe and Piper for being selfish. In fact, I've been downvoted for dare trying to say that I think Paige is the strongest. Instead of opposing my position, I just get downvoted. Not a convincing argument, as to why I should change my position on that, but I digress. |
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Aaeiyn
Elder
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 5,554
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Post by Aaeiyn on Dec 4, 2021 22:39:13 GMT -5
Yes, I changed my mind here, too. My main "dislikes":
A Witch's Tail, Pt 2
Witches in Tights
Sympathy for the Demon
Sam I Am
Y Tu Mummy Tambien
The Importance of Being Phoebe
Lucky Charmed
Nymphs Just Wanna Have Fun
I didn't want to waste 2 of my votes on "Oh My Goddess, Pt 1 & 2". But, I will list my honorable mentions:
Siren Song
A Witch in Time
Centennial Charmed
House Call
Sand Francisco Dreamin'
Necromancing the Stone
Oh My Goddess, Pt 1 & 2
"Cat House" is like...the ONLY "meh" episode. The rest, I hate and are absolutely just garbage to watch. With the exception of the following:
A Witch's Tail, Pt 1
Happily Ever After
The Eyes Have It
The Day That Magic Died
Baby's First Demon
Sense And Sense Ability
Those are about the only worthwhile episodes, from this season. Worst season ever.
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Post by zoeysmom on Jan 1, 2022 12:51:28 GMT -5
Honestly, most of Season 5 is painful to watch, so it's hard to choose. I went with a Witch's Tail (both parts) because it was obvious Phoebe didn't care about the innocent and was a bit rude to her, rather than being caring like she would've 5 years before; Happily Ever After, because I hated Phoebe's costume and her behavior in that episode; Witches in Tights because I didn't like the costumes and found Phoebe to be arrogant, instead of acting like her old self; and a couple others. I miss the old Phoebe, who made friends easily and cared about the innocents, her sisters, and just people in general besides herself.
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Aaeiyn
Elder
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 5,554
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jan 1, 2022 22:06:04 GMT -5
Honestly, most of Season 5 is painful to watch, so it's hard to choose. I went with a Witch's Tail (both parts) because it was obvious Phoebe didn't care about the innocent and was a bit rude to her, rather than being caring like she would've 5 years before; Happily Ever After, because I hated Phoebe's costume and her behavior in that episode; Witches in Tights because I didn't like the costumes and found Phoebe to be arrogant, instead of acting like her old self; and a couple others. I miss the old Phoebe, who made friends easily and cared about the innocents, her sisters, and just people in general besides herself. While, I agree Phoebe sucks the fun out of everything, I give A Witch's Tail, Pt 1 and Happily Ever After a free pass still because outside of her, it's fine. Especially in Happily Ever After with Paige and Grams bonding, and Grams correcting Paige in calling Grams "Grams" instead of "Mrs. Halliwell", everytime LOL |
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Aaeiyn
Elder
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 5,554
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Post by Aaeiyn on Sept 18, 2023 5:47:29 GMT -5
Changing my mind, again, to the following:
S5E4 "Siren Song"
S5E7 "Sympathy for the Demon"
S5E8 "A Witch in Time"
S5E9 "Sam I Am"
S5E10 "Y Tu Mummy Tambien"
S5E11 "The Importance of Being Phoebe"
S5E12 "Centennial Charmed"
S5E13 "House Call"
I'm giving S5E1-2 "A Witch's Tail, Pt 1 & 2" & S5E5 "Witches in Tights" a little bit of a "free pass", as I find what I listed the most dreadful to plow through, in S5, in this moment in time LOL
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 18, 2023 22:00:22 GMT -5
Rereading this thread, I just realized that I never listed my choices, so here they are (just in order of the poll)
1. Witches in Tights.
2. The Importance of being Phoebe
3. Centennial Charmed
4. House Call
5. Lucky Charmed
6. Nymphs Just Wanna Have Fun
7. Oh, My Goddess, Part One
8. Oh, My Goddess, Part Two
Although if I could only choose two, it would be the last two which I think should be part of S6. For that, I won't vote since I'd want to vote for all 23.
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Aaeiyn
Elder
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 5,554
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Post by Aaeiyn on Sept 18, 2023 22:09:56 GMT -5
Rereading this thread, I just realized that I never listed my choices, so here they are (just in order of the poll) 1. Witches in Tights. 2. The Importance of being Phoebe 3. Centennial Charmed 4. House Call 5. Lucky Charmed 6. Nymphs Just Wanna Have Fun 7. Oh, My Goddess, Part One 8. Oh, My Goddess, Part Two Although if I could only choose two, it would be the last two which I think should be part of S6. For that, I won't vote since I'd want to vote for all 23. If I had more votes, I'd include a lot more episodes. It's why I'm constantly changing my mind with this season. A lot of the episodes are pretty bad. |
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