Changes you would've made to Season 4 !

[forever8]

Most of us believe that Season 4 was the downfall of Charmed. Nevertheless, the series continued and they're things were positives and negatives of the season where Piper and I guess Phoebe had to deal with losing their late sister and having to reconstitute ' The Power of Three' with their new sister Paige. So I want to know what type of changes would've made this season much better in your opinion ? 

• The vanquishing of Shax was way too easy. 
• The introduction of Paige could've happened in episode 3. I mean it felt as if Brad Kern wanted us to forget about Prue and Shannen by throwing in Paige so quickly after her death.
• Cole and Phoebe ? Despite liking them in Season 3. Season 4 became the Cole and Phoebe hour in my opinion. I mean in an episode about Paige at least 75% was about them being possessed by Bonnie and Clyde. 
• Prue should've been referred to more instead of being the reason why Piper was grieving was because of her being dead. 
• Phoebe needed to be the social worker or some type of counselor at a rec center. Her, as the Carrie Bradshaw of California still doesn't make sense to me 

[Esmeralda]

Jul 30, 2016 13:14:21 GMT -5 forever8 said:

Most of us believe that Season 4 was the downfall of Charmed. Nevertheless, the series continued and they're things were positives and negatives of the season where Piper and I guess Phoebe had to deal with losing their late sister and having to reconstitute ' The Power of Three' with their new sister Paige. So I want to know what type of changes would've made this season much better in your opinion ? 

• The vanquishing of Shax was way too easy. 
• The introduction of Paige could've happened in episode 3. I mean it felt as if Brad Kern wanted us to forget about Prue and Shannen by throwing in Paige so quickly after her death.
• Cole and Phoebe ? Despite liking them in Season 3. Season 4 became the Cole and Phoebe hour in my opinion. I mean in an episode about Paige at least 75% was about them being possessed by Bonnie and Clyde. 
• Prue should've been referred to more instead of being the reason why Piper was grieving was because of her being dead. 
• Phoebe needed to be the social worker or some type of counselor at a rec center. Her, as the Carrie Bradshaw of California still doesn't make sense to me 

I agree with all of these, especially the two sisters and one half-sister being able to vanquish Shax when they had no bond - no way they should've been able to access the Power of Three.

Also I think Paige should've been a witch with a single Warren power and a single whitelighter power, setting it up so that would be true for all half-whitelighters, especially if each had a different whitelighter power. It's what started the show from being "Charmed" into being "Whitelighter" when having a whitelighter for a father was more important than having a Warren for a mother. Also, we should've seen her aunt and uncle and more of her family rather than her suddenly being just like a sister all of the sudden. She was shoved at us the same way Billie was.

They shouldn't have had so many situations when Good and Evil worked together - it made Good less good and Evil less evil, setting up for the Charmed Ones to believe that Ends Justify the Means rather than The Wrong Thing Done for The Right Reason is Still the Wrong Thing.

They should've stuck with the original Source we saw in Season Three rather than Half-Face and made it clear what had gone into the Cole - the actual essence of the Source or just his powers - was the original Source actually possessing Cole like he did with Shane in 'Charmed Again, Part One' when Cole *was* not himself like Shane wasn't or if he was just being influenced by the Source like Paige was in 'Charmed Again, Part Two'.

With all of this happening, Leo and Piper wanting to have a baby despite all of the evil roaming around made no sense. That should've been saved for Season Five while Cole should've STAYED in Season Four. The idea of the Demonic Wasteland - so demons are never actually vanquished, just banished? - was one of Kern's more stupid ideas.

[forever8]

Most of us believe that Season 4 was the downfall of Charmed. Nevertheless, the series continued and they're things were positives and negatives of the season where Piper and I guess Phoebe had to deal with losing their late sister and having to reconstitute ' The Power of Three' with their new sister Paige. So I want to know what type of changes would've made this season much better in your opinion ? 

• The vanquishing of Shax was way too easy. 
• The introduction of Paige could've happened in episode 3. I mean it felt as if Brad Kern wanted us to forget about Prue and Shannen by throwing in Paige so quickly after her death.
• Cole and Phoebe ? Despite liking them in Season 3. Season 4 became the Cole and Phoebe hour in my opinion. I mean in an episode about Paige at least 75% was about them being possessed by Bonnie and Clyde. 
• Prue should've been referred to more instead of being the reason why Piper was grieving was because of her being dead. 
• Phoebe needed to be the social worker or some type of counselor at a rec center. Her, as the Carrie Bradshaw of California still doesn't make sense to me 

Also, I think Paige should've been a witch with a single Warren power and a single whitelighter power. It's what started the show from being "Charmed" into being "Whitelighter" when having a whitelighter for a father was more important than having a Warren for a mother. Also, we should've seen her aunt and uncle and more of her family rather than her suddenly being just like a sister all of the sudden. She was shoved at us the same way Billie was.


Preach Esmeralda !!!

I wish The WB would've kept' A Paige From The Past ' a Christmas episode instead of turning it into the Cole and Phoebe Show. Paige's Aunt and Uncle and maybe a cousin or two and a longtime friend of the Matthews family could've come to dinner at the manor. And Paige could've been nervous about hosting a dinner with her biological and adoptive families present. Thinking that her adoptive family thinks that she loves her' Real Family' more because she is living with them now and hardly contacts her Aunt and Uncle because she has been busy vanquishing and working.  Nevertheless , Leo assures her that she does not have to feel that way and they love her as well. Maybe some kind of folklore tied to the holiday needed to be vanquished.  At the end of the episode, everyone is present at the table exchanging food and laughter. With Paige looking on amazed that both members of her families are getting along just fine. 

[Courtney]

Jul 30, 2016 13:14:21 GMT -5 forever8 said:

Most of us believe that Season 4 was the downfall of Charmed. Nevertheless, the series continued and they're things were positives and negatives of the season where Piper and I guess Phoebe had to deal with losing their late sister and having to reconstitute ' The Power of Three' with their new sister Paige. So I want to know what type of changes would've made this season much better in your opinion ? 

• The vanquishing of Shax was way too easy. 
• The introduction of Paige could've happened in episode 3. I mean it felt as if Brad Kern wanted us to forget about Prue and Shannen by throwing in Paige so quickly after her death.
• Cole and Phoebe ? Despite liking them in Season 3. Season 4 became the Cole and Phoebe hour in my opinion. I mean in an episode about Paige at least 75% was about them being possessed by Bonnie and Clyde. 
• Prue should've been referred to more instead of being the reason why Piper was grieving was because of her being dead. 
• Phoebe needed to be the social worker or some type of counselor at a rec center. Her, as the Carrie Bradshaw of California still doesn't make sense to me 

The introduction of Paige could've happened in episode 3. I mean it felt as if Brad Kern wanted us to forget about Prue and Shannen by throwing in Paige so quickly after her death.
It's all too obvious Brad couldn't put his personal feelings aside and honour the character Prue - she was the top billed! Brad Kern is one of the worst show runners I've ever come across.
Cole and Phoebe? Despite liking them in Season 3. Season 4 became the Cole and Phoebe hour in my opinion. I mean in an episode about Paige at least 75% was about them being possessed by Bonnie and Clyde.
I've never actually liked Cole and Phoebe. I like Cole and I like Phoebe but I don't like them together. With the introduction of Cole, in my opinion it brought the death of Phoebe from S1 and 2; the character who cared most about her sisters and innocents. Phoebe as a whole was shoved way too much in our face from S4 onwards, and the fact they had no chemistry doesn't really help.
Prue should've been referred to more instead of being the reason why Piper was grieving was because of her being dead.
Three episodes doesn't constitute proper grief no matter which way you spin it. More emphasis should have been focused on Phoebe and Piper, suddenly diminished to two and alone, mourning Prue. 

S3 and 4 could have been stretched out into almost two seasons each if the storylines weren't so rushed. We could have had Prue killed off at the end of S4 and the final two seasons focusing on her death, the introduction of Paige, the vanquish of the Source and the Cole turning evil again/bad Phoebe. Give the show a good six season run to avoid all the lame aspects of the last few seasons (in my opinion the good stuff from them would be worth sacrificing!)

[adzpower]

I don't really have anything else to add tbh. Everything in this thread is accurate.

[Melinda Halliwell]

Other than what's being said already I would've had Phoebe die instead of Paige so we remebered her for who she really was and not what she became later on.

Season 4 would've focused more on Paige and her backstory instead of Cole and Phoebe.

She wouldn't have got attached to her half sisters right away meaning it would take the P03 longer to form and be able to vanquish demons together like Shax who would die episode 13 instead.

There would be consequences to what happened in AHBL and Doctor Griffiths.

And Paige wouldn't have moved into Halliwell manor straight off but later on season 4 end when they'd vanquished the Source which was the original plan had Shannen stayed obviously.

[Esmeralda]

Jul 31, 2016 4:08:27 GMT -5 Melinda Halliwell said:

Other than what's being said already I would've had Phoebe die instead of Paige so we remebered her for who she really was and not what she became later on.

Season 4 would've focused more on Paige and her backstory instead of Cole and Phoebe.

She wouldn't have got attached to her half sisters right away meaning it would take the P03 longer to form and be able to vanquish demons together like Shax who would die episode 13 instead.

There would be consequences to what happened in AHBL and Doctor Griffiths.

And Paige wouldn't have moved into Halliwell manor straight off but later on season 4 end when they'd vanquished the Source which was the original plan had Shannen stayed obviously.

I agree with this except for the part about Paige's backstory. She was already shoved in our faces enough; the season didn't have to revolve around her. I didn't mind it being the Phoebe and Cole Show, since they were the *It* couple at the time and probably what saved Charmed more than anything else, even if I personally would've preferred the series ending when Shax said "The end". But once we had a chance to accept Paige (especially if she was introduced more slowly as you suggested) I would've preferred the first half of Season Five being more about Paige's background with Cole stuck in Season Four where he belonged with no sign of a Demonic Wasteland and no chance of him (or the Source) coming back so Phoebe could've mourned him in Season Five and then moved on.

The only time I *don't* like it being the Phoebe and Cole Show is during re-watches but it made perfect sense during the show's first airing.

[Courtney]

Aug 1, 2016 0:18:00 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Jul 31, 2016 4:08:27 GMT -5 Melinda Halliwell said:

Other than what's being said already I would've had Phoebe die instead of Paige so we remebered her for who she really was and not what she became later on.

Season 4 would've focused more on Paige and her backstory instead of Cole and Phoebe.

She wouldn't have got attached to her half sisters right away meaning it would take the P03 longer to form and be able to vanquish demons together like Shax who would die episode 13 instead.

There would be consequences to what happened in AHBL and Doctor Griffiths.

And Paige wouldn't have moved into Halliwell manor straight off but later on season 4 end when they'd vanquished the Source which was the original plan had Shannen stayed obviously.

I agree with this except for the part about Paige's backstory. She was already shoved in our faces enough; the season didn't have to revolve around her. I didn't mind it being the Phoebe and Cole Show, since they were the *It* couple at the time and probably what saved Charmed more than anything else, even if I personally would've preferred the series ending when Shax said "The end". But once we had a chance to accept Paige (especially if she was introduced more slowly as you suggested) I would've preferred the first half of Season Five being more about Paige's background with Cole stuck in Season Four where he belonged with no sign of a Demonic Wasteland and chance of him (or the Source) coming back.

The only time I *don't* like it being the Phoebe and Cole Show is during re-watches but it made perfect sense during the show's first airing.

S3 being a series finale is certainly a chilling end to the show, and some fans would be frustrated to no end, but it completely works. All storylines would successfully wrap up by one simple clause - the five main character's deaths. Phoebe and Cole killed in the underworld, Prue and Piper killed by Shax and Leo either hit by a darklighter arrow, escaping and continuing on as a whitelighter or choosing to clip his wings (his end would be ambiguous and left to the viewer).

Shax's speech being 'The End' are a very fitting last line for the show, and I'd still be satisfied with the three great seasons we had. It would be a bold way to wrap up Charmed.

[lordumbrex]

New Season 4: It would take longer to integrate Paige and she would not move in until mid-way through the season. The overarching plot would be the Source growing increasingly desperate to vanquish the Charmed Ones as various factions, including Kurzon and Devlin, begin to sprout in order to take over the Underworld, while the sisters mourn the death of Prue and get to know their new sister, Paige. The villains would be humans, warlocks, demons, ghosts, and forces of nature, and the focus would be on the bond of the new trio of sisters and how the Power of Three affects their other relationships.

4.1/2) Charmed Again, Parts 1 and 2.

4.3) Hell Hath No Fury

4.4) Enter the Demon

4.5) Size Matters

4.6) A Knight to Remember

4.7) Brain Drain

4.8) Muse to My Ears: Devlin is not vanquished at the end.

4.9) Warlocked: In an effort to get the Book of Shadows, Devlin locks the Charmed Ones into the Manor and releases spirits on them, turning the Manor into a Haunted House. The sisters must rely on and trust each other for the first time in order to overcome their fear and defeat Devlin once and for all.

4.10) Trial By Magic: Paige moves in.

4.11) Paige from the Past: A Christmas episode, all three sisters travel to the past while Cole and Leo prepare dinner for the family.

4.12) Lost and Bound

4.13) Switch Hunted: An FBI agent blackmails the Charmed Ones into helping him defeat a Witch Hunter, only the hunter may not be who they think it is.

4.14) Black as Cole

4.15) Three Faces of Phoebe: Now that Belthazor is gone, and fIghting with whether she should marry Cole or not, Phoebe summons her past and future selves in order to answer her heart's desire. Cole, meanwhile, struggles to find his place in the world while the demon Kurzon takes his shot at the Charmed Ones.

4.16) Happily Ever After: Phoebe starts turning into a Stepford Wife due to a curse on Gram's ring as Kurzon recruits a wicked witch to use magic based on fairy tales to destroy the Charmed Ones. Cole, after being angered by a client and finding out that his place as a lawyer is not what he wants, decides to start finding his place via temp jobs.

4.17) The Fifth Halliwell: On Valentine's weekend Paige begins to feel lonely and neglected due to Glen's absence, Piper and Leo trying to have a child and Cole and Phoebe's pending nuptials. Meanwhile, in order to destroy the Charmed Ones, Kurzon sends a Power Broker to inject a demonic power into the solitary Paige, who goes crazy. It is up to the Charmed Ones to find the Power Broker and defeat Kurzon before he is able to defeat them.

4.18) Mal Temp: Coles temp job leads him to an old person's home that is being terrorized by a shadow, turning everyone against one another by inciting anger. It is up to the Charmed Ones to figure out what it is before the Shadow overcomes the home. The Shadow is a thoughtform/tulpa created by a young boy that died during the great earthquake and appears around April 18th every year, bringing with him the rage that the boy felt when he passed. He appears in an old person home because those old people would have been around his age.

4.19) A Witch in Time: Paige is thrilled when Glen returns and the pair start to date. However, it is revealed by the appearance of the Angel of Death that Glen is destined to die. In her attempts to save him, both Phoebe and Paige die by the hands of a warlock, leaving Piper to travel back in time in order to change history.

4.20) Saving Private Leo

4.21) Mommy Dearest: A demon is killing innocents that the Charmed Ones once saved. Cole's mother comes to visit, having heard the rumors about her son being dead and engaged to a Charmed One. Upon Elizabeth being vanquished, Cole finally feels free from everything and is happy to be a human for the first time.

4.22) Charmed and Dangerous: Having recovered from his injuries and settled the strife in the Underworld enough to risk a fight, the Source uses the ultimate power, the Hollow, to gather the Charmed Ones powers.

Changes: I focused more on Paige, while pushing her moving in back in order to show more of Phoebe and Piper getting over Prue's death. I also gave Cole the subplot of finding happiness in human form in order to make his eventual possession by the Source all the more tragic. I also wanted to make more villains relate back to the first two seasons, where it wasn't always a demon and it was more about saving the innocent. Finally, I also wanted to play with the idea of "factions" that Cole warned about that only really came into play in that one episode with Devlin by making both Devlin and Kurzon more than a one episode threat.

[Melinda Halliwell]

Love your idea lordumbrex.

[Deleted]

Changes: I focused more on Paige, while pushing her moving in back in order to show more of Phoebe and Piper getting over Prue's death. I also gave Cole the subplot of finding happiness in human form in order to make his eventual possession by the Source all the more tragic. I also wanted to make more villains relate back to the first two seasons, where it wasn't always a demon and it was more about saving the innocent. Finally, I also wanted to play with the idea of "factions" that Cole warned about that only really came into play in that one episode with Devlin by making both Devlin and Kurzon more than a one episode threat.

Your ideas are very good.  You should think about turning them into an AU Fan Fiction series.

[lordumbrex]

Aug 5, 2016 11:49:02 GMT -5 @rexandhannah1 said:

Changes: I focused more on Paige, while pushing her moving in back in order to show more of Phoebe and Piper getting over Prue's death. I also gave Cole the subplot of finding happiness in human form in order to make his eventual possession by the Source all the more tragic. I also wanted to make more villains relate back to the first two seasons, where it wasn't always a demon and it was more about saving the innocent. Finally, I also wanted to play with the idea of "factions" that Cole warned about that only really came into play in that one episode with Devlin by making both Devlin and Kurzon more than a one episode threat.

Your ideas are very good.  You should think about turning them into an AU Fan Fiction series.

To be frank, I had an idea for a change for season 6, but the only way to get there was to re-write season 4 and 5, so I do have the season 5 changes written out. Season 6 has more episodes that I needed to create, whereas season 4 only had "Warlocked", "Mal Temp", and "Mommy Dearest." Plus, the two that I pilfered from the actual season 5 (Happily Ever After and A Witch in Time) since those concepts were good, it was their execution that was lacking. Maybe I'll post the rundown for the new season 5...

[mavbay]

- Reslove the cliffhanger of ABHL in the first episode. Which means we do actually see how Prue died, also how Phoebe got out the Underworld. Of course that means Shannen appears in the fist episode.
- Charmed Again is the second episode, it takes places two weeks after the events of AHBL. The sisters however, do not vanquish Shax at the end of this episode.
- First Half of the season concentrates on Paige and how she is handeling the new situation. She never moves in with her sisters.
- Shax is vanquished the mid-season finale. The second half of the seasons is about fighting the source. The whole Cole/Source storyline happens in season 5 instead.

[Esmeralda]

Aug 5, 2016 17:01:19 GMT -5 lordumbrex said:

To be frank, I had an idea for a change for season 6, but the only way to get there was to re-write season 4 and 5, so I do have the season 5 changes written out. Season 6 has more episodes that I needed to create, whereas season 4 only had "Warlocked", "Mal Temp", and "Mommy Dearest." Plus, the two that I pilfered from the actual season 5 (Happily Ever After and A Witch in Time) since those concepts were good, it was their execution that was lacking. Maybe I'll post the rundown for the new season 5...

I'd love to see what you came up with as an alternate Episode Guide.

[Esmeralda]

Aug 16, 2016 3:38:19 GMT -5 mavbay said:

- Reslove the cliffhanger of ABHL in the first episode. Which means we do actually see how Prue died, also how Phoebe got out the Underworld. Of course that means Shannen appears in the fist episode.
- Charmed Again is the second episode, it takes places two weeks after the events of AHBL. The sisters however, do not vanquish Shax at the end of this episode.
- First Half of the season concentrates on Paige and how she is handeling the new situation. She never moves in with her sisters.
- Shax is vanquished the mid-season finale. The second half of the seasons is about fighting the source. The whole Cole/Source storyline happens in season 5 instead.

I love this except that Shannen had control of her image and after being fired, wouldn't let it be shown, including not allowing flashbacks, something I'm convinced Kern didn't know until it was too late. So how would you resolve the cliffhanger without showing her?

[Deleted]

The only way to do it would be to show Prue's body covered with a blanket or use a stunt woman, just don't show her face. 

Once Shannen was fired, the Crispin Glover Ruling came into effect, and they couldn't use any footage or images of her, period.

[mavbay]

I would've preferred seeing Shannen leaving at her own accord with an final appeareance for the first episode of season 4. However there are other ways, since she was fired and her image couldn't be used. I mean it would've been enough for me, if they had a stunt women lying next to Piper when Leo arrives. He holds his hands with the healing glowing thing covering her face and says somthing like "It's to late...". The body could've been wrapped under a sheet for the rest of the episode, just like they did with Andy. I mean they were ways of resolving the ABHL cliffhanger even without Shannen, unfortunately they chose not to.

[Esmeralda]

Aug 16, 2016 16:44:38 GMT -5 mavbay said:

I would've preferred seeing Shannen leaving at her own accord with an final appeareance for the first episode of season 4. However there are other ways, since she was fired and her image couldn't be used. I mean it would've been enough for me, if they had a stunt women lying next to Piper when Leo arrives. He holds his hands with the healing glowing thing covering her face and says somthing like "It's to late...". The body could've been wrapped under a sheet for the rest of the episode, just like they did with Andy. I mean they were ways of resolving the ABHL cliffhanger even without Shannen, unfortunately they chose not to.

I think most fans would've preferred Shannen leaving on her own accord, especially if she had done so after S4 rather than S3 since most of the plotlines for S4 were originally written with Prue in mind.

Unfortunately that's not what we got.

I'm not sure how much they could've done with just a sheet-covered body - look how quickly they went away from Andy in that situation - and I'm not sure how much better that would've been than what we got - I thought finding out through Piper's mourning was very effective. But I would've liked to have seen how Phoebe and Cole got away from the Underworld and what exactly Leo did do when he first arrived - was Prue already dead so Piper wrongly blamed him when she said he healed the wrong sister - he just healed her because she was his wife, or *did* Leo have an actual choice and did he choose Piper - which makes sense since he so recently saw his love die? But that would be hard to do without showing Shannen's face and she wouldn't be covered by a sheet when that was going on.

I've posted this numerous times at this board but since you're new, just in case you haven't seen this, have to share this fan-made video, what I always count as the missing scenes I wish we could've seen...







Yeah, all of that with the proper clothing and hairstyle, etc. - oh, yes, that's what I truly wish we could've seen...

[mavbay]

I think it really just comes down to a proper execution of the entire episode, writing, directing etc. IMHO the episode would concentrate on Phoebe/Cole/Leo getting out of the Underworld and seeing what acutally has been done once they reach the Manor. This would mean, that we don't have to see that much of a blanket-covered Prue, but it would give a better closure so we know what exactly happend. Also, in my opinion, that would make the transition from ABHL to Charmed Again much more smoother.

Thanx for the videos btw.

[Esmeralda]

That would've been nice, but it still would've led to fans wondering why they didn't show what had happened to Prue. And if they had them going back to the Manor and seeing Prue's feet without anything else, I think that would've been worse.

Sorry, but the more I think about it, the more I think that given the circumstances, they did it the best way possible.

But, of course, that's just my own opinion.

And I'm glad you like Shining-Allure's version of Prue's death. He does amazing videos.