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Post by jdpm1991 on Oct 22, 2016 13:03:03 GMT -5
Anyone else hate this episode as much as I do?
Only thing I love about it are: Rogue Piper and The Seer's cameo
I despise the fact that Cole wasn't vanguished by the original Charmed Ones in the original reality and only by AU Phoebe.
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Granny Charmed
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Post by Granny Charmed on Oct 22, 2016 20:44:40 GMT -5
It looked like stories that *could* of been used for the Evil Phoebe/Cole storyline that they cut short during season 4. Of course we all would of wanted Prue back and this sort of story screams a world where Paige meets Prue. But I was not pleased with this episode and it didn't have much enjoyment for me dears - apart from seeing The Seer again.
But I found the episode just had more potential than it really did. It just would of worked much better with Prue - and without her, It just doesn't feel like a story for a 100th episode used to celebrate Charmed. I would of been happier dears with one that goes back in time and flashbacks or seeing the Halliwell's or Melinda's past.
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Post by unakite on Oct 23, 2016 6:26:32 GMT -5
I love Centennial Charmed, is original and full of doable plots
I too would have favored that they were the original Charmed Ones to vanquish the Cole and I always will suppose that never Piper and Phoebe of the right time lime could be able to vanquish Cole, only in a alternative reality they could do this
Phoebe had been very clear with Paige, she did not want to have to deal with Cole,she did not want to attack him, she she wished only to be at peace, thinking of the birth of her niece
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Post by magena on Oct 23, 2016 9:46:14 GMT -5
Cole'ld be killed by the sisters only in a AU!
Phoebe 'ld never be able to kill him, even if she claimed it
And so Piper, she always had a soft spot for him!
Only Prue was distrustful of him and maybe she tried to whisper something against him to Paige
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Post by sol on Nov 15, 2016 1:50:33 GMT -5
At first I liked Centennial Charmed, now I love it
I love Cole's determination in trying to get back the happy times when he and Phoebe loved one another freely and Piper and Phoebe related to him like he was a member of their team
I love that AU in which Piper is harsh and belligerent, and Leo helplessly
And I prefer it was Paige to determine the circumstances leading up to Cole's vanquish, because I am convinced that neither Phoebe nor Piper would be able to do it
I think as magena, only Prue or Paige'ld have the definiteness of vanquish Cole
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Nov 20, 2016 14:52:26 GMT -5
This episode was a pure crapfest. That is all I have to say. It's bad enough that Cole was vanquished in a badly written episode. It's worst that he had become the victim of the sisters' own bigotry that finally manifested in an ugly way in late Season 4. And I hate it that there are fans who continue to believe that there was nothing wrong with what happened between late Seasons 4 and early Season 5. By writing Cole off in this manner, Brad Kern and his writers guaranteed that the Halliwells were doomed to never mature as characters.
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Post by magena on Dec 5, 2016 15:54:30 GMT -5
This episode was a pure crapfest. That is all I have to say. It's bad enough that Cole was vanquished in a badly written episode. It's worst that he had become the victim of the sisters' own bigotry that finally manifested in an ugly way in late Season 4. And I hate it that there are fans who continue to believe that there was nothing wrong with what happened between late Seasons 4 and early Season 5. By writing Cole off in this manner, Brad Kern and his writers guaranteed that the Halliwells were doomed to never mature as characters. I am one of those fans who believe that Cole has made a choice, to become the Source and then he has suffered the consequences of his choice Is bigotry believe that it is right not to give another chance to who have chosen to become the Source of all evil? The sisters have condoned a life as mercenary demon, the try to kill them, to lead to insanity Prue: spend their lives forgiving everything it's a saint's thing |
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Aaeiyn
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✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Sept 13, 2021 2:34:52 GMT -5
S5 really tarnished Cole's reputation. I thoroughly despise Cole coming back for S5. His legacy should've stayed behind in Long Live the Queen, where he had some sympathy points. IK there's some who believe that Cole "decided" to become the Source, but I couldn't disagree more with that statement. Cole was CLEARLY struggling in the Three Faces of Phoebe episode. In the very beginning of the episode, Cole dreams about the Source "taking over" and "killing his soul". And, he got mad at the Seer for not telling him that he would become the Source by taking in the Hollow (which helped protected the Charmed Ones). And, the Seer just shrugging it off and grooming Cole to "allow" the Source, to takeover. Cole absolutely refused, and the Seer knew Cole wouldn't do her bidding, and she clearly said "but the Source can". In "We're Off to See the Wizard", the Seer was worried that Cole was "taking over" the Source which would blow their cover. If that's not telling you in plain sight that Cole is possessed by the Source, IDK what is, but I digress. Anyhoot, Charmed copped out with creating a beautiful tragic story with Cole's character by bringing him back in S5. That was a mistake and confuses Charmed fans, everywhere if Cole "decided" to become the Source or not. Ofc, the correct answer is he did not. He would never make that choice, even if it was a "decision" because that would mean he would lose Phoebe, over that decision. It doesn't make sense for Cole to make that decision but, anyway.
Like I've been saying, no Cole in S5. That was a bad move/play, for his character. He should've stayed dead and NEVER returned and just seal the deal on his tragic fate. He served his purpose by vanquishing the judge handing out Guardians, exposing Troxa, killing the Triad, helping Phoebe get Prue back in "Bride and Gloom", helping to reconstitute the Charmed Ones by helping Phoebe rescue Paige and stopping the OG Source by taking in the Hollow. His purpose was done and over. He was no longer useful, to the series, after that.
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Post by fallingsnow6136 on Sept 13, 2021 2:38:46 GMT -5
It looked like stories that *could* of been used for the Evil Phoebe/Cole storyline that they cut short during season 4. Of course we all would of wanted Prue back and this sort of story screams a world where Paige meets Prue. But I was not pleased with this episode and it didn't have much enjoyment for me dears - apart from seeing The Seer again. But I found the episode just had more potential than it really did. It just would of worked much better with Prue - and without her, It just doesn't feel like a story for a 100th episode used to celebrate Charmed. I would of been happier dears with one that goes back in time and flashbacks or seeing the Halliwell's or Melinda's past. I agree with that. It should have had Prue in it - but do you think Prue would have tried to save Phoebe from Cole? He was kind of keeping Phoebe prisoner in this episode and although she dealt with it well, Prue was much more maternal towards Phoebe than Piper was so I dunno, would Cole have been allowed to get away with that? |
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rebooted
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Post by rebooted on Sept 13, 2021 3:24:13 GMT -5
I quite like this episode and I am not a Season 5 - 8 fan.
I also like how doors close at the end of this episode as well. I feel like the show doesn't go back to some sense of normal after Julian leaves. Him and Holly really saved the show after Shannen's departure I feel. You have to remember that the following 2 episodes are House Call and Sand Francisco Dreaming which are hugely lame.
If this was the finale, I dont think I would have minded.
That small sisterly moment when Phoebe and Piper see each other again is epic.
The lights shining down on the sisters reconstituting the Power of Three.
The potion blowing up as a throw back to when both Piper and Paige were blown backwards is cute.
Julian McMahon is epic in this episode. When Cole hurts Phoebe, when she tries to stop him from hurling a fireball at Paige, Piper and Leo is shocking. Cole physically hurting Phoebe - he's gone mad!
So are the Avatars (I hated them in Season 7).
And I do like the storyline about Cole changing reality, consumed by his love of Phoebe, that makes him vulnerable, changing the world in an Alternative Universe where he is back to Season 3/4 Belthazor, but Paige knows everything about him!
The Seer and Bad Daryl. FUN!
I get it, Coles character is destroyed at this point but I think they did well with what they had and its a tribute to the original storyline that was supposed to play out and that meeting Paige was their destiny and she saved the day!
"You know that the only reason I am still here is so that what happened to Prue, does not happen to Piper and you know it".
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Post by Andrew on Sept 30, 2021 5:20:29 GMT -5
I suppose the logical follow up question would be: if not this, then how should Cole have been written out? And no, you can’t just say “he never should have been brought back for season 5”. For better or worse, he was, so what would have been a satisfying exit for Mr. Cole Turner?
I’ll admit, I’m not entirely sure myself, but I can definitely suggest one or two tweaks to get things rolling. For one thing, it was established pretty definitively in season 4 that mortals (humans, witches, etc) are NOT meant to hold demonic powers - Paige was losing it from just one, and Cole had accumulated a crapton of them - so instead of everyone just deciding that having those powers meant he was evil, full stop, and needed to stay away from them (or needed to be destroyed, depending on their mood), they’re worried about him, knowing he’s a ticking timebomb. They’d feel he needed to get rid of the powers, and he’d be willing (at least at first), but unfortunately he’d be so powerful that they’d be unable to find a spell or potion that would do the job. As his mental condition deteriorated, Cole would decide that he could do a lot of good this way, deal with serious problems so that Phoebe and her sisters wouldn’t have to. Unfortunately, he’d get confused, target the wrong people, which would only lead the Charmed Ones to view him as more dangerous than ever. They’d know that they’d need to come up with a way to vanquish him, should the worst come to pass… and when he found out about that, in his paranoid state, it wouldn’t take long before it did.
But he’d still love Phoebe, and want to make her happy. He’d know that the thing that hurt her more than anything else was Prue’s death, so he’d decide to turn back time and undo that. Only, well, he’s not Tempus, so he wouldn’t know how to do so safely or accurately, and would start tearing time itself apart. Paige, panic-orbing for the first time in a while (though to be fair, reality coming apart around her would certainly warrant that reaction) would end up in an alternate timeline where Piper had been killed by Shax, instead of Prue. Much as in the actual episode, she would have to rally the sisters who had no idea who she was to reconstitute the Charmed Ones and use the Power of Three one last time… only in this case, prime timeline Piper and Phoebe would still be around, and with Paige at ground zero acting as the bridge between two worlds, both sets of Charmed Ones would have to vanquish Cole once and for all, undoing what he’d done (because he’d never gotten to do it… time travel is weird). Phoebe would be relieved that Cole was finally at peace (though she’d naturally have issues to work through from having to kill him… again), Piper would be hopeful that no more major threats were going to get in the way of her and Leo raising their child, and Paige would be glad to have finally been able to get to know the sister she was never able to meet.
Only when they head downstairs, there would be someone unexpected there, waiting for them. Someone named Chris…
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Aaeiyn
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Post by Aaeiyn on Sept 30, 2021 7:19:24 GMT -5
how should Cole have been written out? Well, as I said, earlier (and, numerously around other threads): His legacy should've stayed behind in Long Live the Queen But, if you really want me to follow this rule, you have here: And no, you can’t just say “he never should have been brought back for season 5”. For better or worse, he was, so what would have been a satisfying exit for Mr. Cole Turner? Then, I will link you to this thread and link my response, here: First lets ignore all the behind the scene stuff. In your opinion what would be the best exit for Cole? And if you are interested? How would you make Cole spinoff? You can discard canon stuff btw! I have seen a lot of people saying Cole should have never returned for S5. And I do agree for one reason that is the writing of Cole's character. It's obvious that the writers/Kern had no idea what to do with Cole, and his character is all over the place. I have seen a lot of people saying S4 finale should have been the end of Cole. I also disagree with this. Because that storyline became messy (no mater what your stance is on Cole being possessed or not). Imo opinion Cole should have been written out in S5 WT part 2. In this episode we see Cole getting ready to leave. Until the sisters pull him back (which happened a lot of times). Cole at this point is not evil, he is good and even understanding of others. He listened to Darryl (sucks we never got that story from S4 of them being cop buddies). In the end we have both Cole and Phoebe coming to understanding. With the line "always loving". And Cole should have left then! At that point he was on good terms with Phoebe, Darryl and even Paige on some lvl. It also leaves an opening for any future guest starring. No butchering of his character, and we have a nice send of. Now for a spin off? Well I would like for it to explore Cole's 100+ years of past. Past evil deeds coming back to hunt him? Trying to find who he is right now? What should he do? Learn to control his new powers. Have him work a small law office trying to help people the best way he can (another thing S4 story that never worked due to writers/Kern). You can add Kyra and Drake to the mix. And create a well rounded characters of fighting evil in very interesting ways. Maybe even a possible romance between Cole and Kyra, since she would be able to understand him. A brother kind of connection with Drake. And they can use even theirs past to connect it with Cole's. So it want be Cole centric show. What are your opinion on how Cole's exit should have been handled? And on a possible spinoff? You make excellent points, and I do agree with them! Despite me being on the team, where he just never came back, after being vanquished. But, you have mind open to this new idea that he leaves (like he was going to) in "A Witch's Tail Pt 2". We saw that with Angel for Buffy and stuff. OFC, that would make it too much like Buffy & Angel, right? LOL A long time ago, I did see somebody use the Angel Theme song for like a "Cole" show, and I can totally see that! Unfortunately, I can't find that video, anywhere, anymore. I think the original creator deleted it, and their account is no longer on YT. But, I remember seeing it. Anyway, I would hope the Cole spin-off to retain its dark roots that was of S1, S3 & S4. I would love to see how he met Drake, the Thorn Demons, how he's able to shimmer all sandy, that we saw in S7. I rather like this new idea that you gave me  |
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Post by ijones41 on Oct 8, 2021 1:19:23 GMT -5
Then I suggest that you re-watch Season Four again . . . especially "Charmed and Dangerous" and "The Three Faces of Phoebe".
You guys really cannot deal with moral ambiguity in fiction, can you? I can't believe that I had wasted so many years watching "Charmed" in this belief that it would developed into a more complex series, capable of exploring or portraying a more complex and ambiguous supernatural world. Boy, was I wrong! And disappointed. Even when the sisters and Leo had committed terrible deeds, the series would either ignore their deeds or pretend they had not really did anything wrong. Because they were the show's main protagonists. I can't believe how I had wasted my time with this series.
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Post by BriannaWarren2.0 on Oct 8, 2021 3:25:05 GMT -5
Then I suggest that you re-watch Season Four again . . . especially "Charmed and Dangerous" and "The Three Faces of Phoebe". You guys really cannot deal with moral ambiguity in fiction, can you? I can't believe that I had wasted so many years watching "Charmed" in this belief that it would developed into a more complex series, capable of exploring or portraying a more complex and ambiguous supernatural world. Boy, was I wrong! And disappointed. Even when the sisters and Leo had committed terrible deeds, the series would either ignore their deeds or pretend they had not really did anything wrong. Because they were the show's main protagonists. I can't believe how I had wasted my time with this series. I hated how Phoebe blamed Cole for all of their issues, the biggest two examples: Phoebe's nightmare? Cole is doing this to me! Phoebe being turned into Cinderella and her sisters turning into Fairy Tale princess'? Cole is behind this! I would have liked Cole as a reformed demon, who is morally grey. |
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Post by Andrew on Oct 8, 2021 11:46:51 GMT -5
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Aaeiyn
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Post by Aaeiyn on Oct 8, 2021 18:23:09 GMT -5
You guys really cannot deal with moral ambiguity in fiction, can you? I can't believe that I had wasted so many years watching "Charmed" in this belief that it would developed into a more complex series, capable of exploring or portraying a more complex and ambiguous supernatural world. Boy, was I wrong! And disappointed. Even when the sisters and Leo had committed terrible deeds, the series would either ignore their deeds or pretend they had not really did anything wrong. Because they were the show's main protagonists. I can't believe how I had wasted my time with this series. Cole is one of my favorite characters, and I agree he was coerced into becoming the Source, by the Seer. I just didn't like him returning in S5 only to be pushed away. Why bring him back, then? Just leave him dead back in S4E20 and call it a day. Don't waste my time with a character you brought back just to kill them, again. Downright pissed me off! EDIT: And, S5a was the nail in the coffin, for me, in really disliking Phoebe. A character I used to love. Thank goodness Piper remained relatively consistent throughout all 8 seasons and became my new favorite. EDIT 2: Also, I'm one of the few that don't take issues with Phoebe nor Paige for killing Rick, back in S6E17 Hyde School Reunion. Seems like a lot of the Charmed fan base didn't like that and thought they broke the code of S2E2 Morality Bites. And, I keep saying that they didn't hunt down Rick to kill him, unlike future Phoebe hunting down Cal Greene, in order to kill him. I would even argue self-defense, since Rick was waving a gun around and pointing it, at them. Did they HAVE to kill him? No, but they're not bad people (nor breaking their S2E2 Morality Bites oath) nor murderers for doing so. |
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rebooted
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Post by rebooted on Nov 7, 2021 15:45:12 GMT -5
Anyone else hate this episode as much as I do? Only thing I love about it are: Rogue Piper and The Seer's cameo I despise the fact that Cole wasn't vanguished by the original Charmed Ones in the original reality and only by AU Phoebe. Piper and Paige made the vanquishing potion though. And the Power of Three was restored when the lights shined down to bless the potion? |
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Aaeiyn
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Post by Aaeiyn on Jul 26, 2024 11:30:51 GMT -5
A lot of my views has changed. I still disagree in bringing Cole back, but I no longer hate the Phoebe character. And, Piper has become my least favorite. S5E12 "Centennial Charmed" is not a terrible episode, per se. I just don't like the Phoebe & Cole parts.
The Paige, Piper & Leo parts are interesting, though. And gives an interesting perspective on "what if Paige didn't exist?". I just don't like it being centered around the Phoebe & Cole fallout.
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