Would Cole have made a good Source (as a ruler)

[Alana]

The Seer said: "Too bad Belthazor's gone, he would have made a great new Source".

I wonder if Cole would have been a real good leader of The Underworld if he had chosen this position on his own terms. Not possessed, not crazy.

I mean from the demonic point of view, not from the good side. Was Cole a leader material?

[cyma]

In season 5, Witch in Time:

Bacarra: In the future, sooner than you might think, you're gonna rule the Underworld again. I'm your adviser. Of course I advised you against this, but, uh...

Cole: I'd never turn back to evil, it won't happen.

Bacarra: It does happen. You united demons and warlocks who lift the Underworld to its greatest power in history. You're the future of evil, man.

According to a future warlock, he was a great leader. Not possessed this time. But even while under the influence of Source's spirit, there was a conference and talk about reuniting the Underworld and warring factions. However, while Cole mentioned he wasn't picky if he dealt with exiled vampires or other traitors in his hitman days, he did appear to have a great dislike for vampires when Rowan showed up for a deal. Probably inherited the hatred from the Half-Face Source, I guess.

But remove that and sure, Cole could've had not only the Underworld but the world as well. Honestly, Cole has enough experience to make Leo as an Elder look like a joke. With non-possessed Source Cole, I wouldn't be surprised if he began a war among the Elders or between Elders and witches and watched them decimate themselves.

Unfortunately, the only thing that will forever stand in the way for achieving greatness would be his love for Phoebe. Something the Seer, Triad, Brotherhood of Thorn, demons, warlocks and even the Source himself noticed.

[erikamarie]

Cole is smart, full of knowledge of human world, lover of good life, beautiful things and accostumed to power: he'ld be a great Source

We can't know from what future Bacarra went, maybe there is a timeline in which Cole is that great Source he was destined to be

[Alana]

Unfortunately, the only thing that will forever stand in the way for achieving greatness would be his love for Phoebe. Something the Seer, Triad, Brotherhood of Thorn, demons, warlocks and even the Source himself noticed.

Good for magic world, bad for the Underworld.

[craig]

Cole being a great leader in Bacarra's future can't really buy into it without proper evidence. I suppose this means a timeline Cole didn't go back in time as an Avatar. But do we really take what he said seriously. We don't even know what future Bacarra was from.

But Cole is smart and has knowledge, but I don't know if he could have ever been a good leader. But his love for Phoebe would forever stand in his way, so I am not so sure.

[cyma]

Thinking about it more...it may be a possibility that the only reason Cole became the Source in Baracca's future is just so he could gain the power to send someone back in time to save Phoebe's life. 

[craig]

Jun 23, 2017 14:00:53 GMT -5 cyma said:

Thinking about it more...it may be a possibility that the only reason Cole became the Source in Baracca's future is just so he could gain the power to send someone back in time to save Phoebe's life. 

Never thought about that, but it could be right.

But now I'm having flashbacks to the Warlock in the Truth is out there and it Hurts episode, where that Warlock came from the future. So do Warlocks have powers to time travel or just using someone who can to get into the past which obviously makes more sense? But that's twice a Warlock has come from the future though.

[gzv969]

Cole only became the source in Bacarra's future because phoebe died saving miles. With phoebe dead, Cole was focused enough to be genuinely evil and really become the Source.

So Cole would have made an excellent source but only if phoebe was out of the way or if he could really overcome his love for phoebe.

[lilchi7212]

Jun 23, 2017 20:19:52 GMT -5 craig said:

Jun 23, 2017 14:00:53 GMT -5 cyma said:

Thinking about it more...it may be a possibility that the only reason Cole became the Source in Baracca's future is just so he could gain the power to send someone back in time to save Phoebe's life. 

Never thought about that, but it could be right.

But now I'm having flashbacks to the Warlock in the Truth is out there and it Hurts episode, where that Warlock came from the future. So do Warlocks have powers to time travel or just using someone who can to get into the past which obviously makes more sense? But that's twice a Warlock has come from the future though.

I thought  Bacarra was the one who did the spell. Probably came from an alternate timeline

[gzv969]

This is also part of the reason Cole in season 7 would not show himself to phoebe and the sisters. Even though he showed himself to piper, he never told her the truth, that he had really escaped the alternate reality and gave piper the impression they were both trapped there. But it was only piper that was trapped at the time. Cole probably came to the conclusion that continuing to involve himself with phoebe would just keep ending in disaster and it was better to move on and help her move on also.

Why I believe Cole had fully escaped the alternate reality? Remember Cole orchestrated the whole event in "The Seven Year Witch", worked with demons to infect piper (he had to have appeared to them) and he was able to give drake new life for a time. And at the end you notice drake could see Cole both while he was still alive and after he died again. So Cole could have shown himself to the sisters and everybody if he wanted to. He just chose not to. Also recall one of Coles powers acquired from the wasteland was the ability to move between realities so after the alternate reality reset in Centennial Charmed he may have reacquired his wasteland powers but chose to just not deal with the sisters anymore

[Alana]

He just chose not to. Also recall one of Coles powers acquired from the wasteland was the ability to move between realities so after the alternate reality reset in Centennial Charmed he may have reacquired his wasteland powers but chose to just not deal with the sisters anymore

Unfortunatelty, the comics contradict your point of view.

[gzv969]

Jun 24, 2017 5:40:25 GMT -5 Alana said:

He just chose not to. Also recall one of Coles powers acquired from the wasteland was the ability to move between realities so after the alternate reality reset in Centennial Charmed he may have reacquired his wasteland powers but chose to just not deal with the sisters anymore

Unfortunatelty, the comics contradict your point of view.

I personally never really accepted the comics as canon even though they are meant to be.

[Alana]

I believe that if Cole really had chosen to become a Source in the Season 5 the plot would have been more interesing. He would have stopped trying to get Phoebe back and would have found a new destiny.

Are there any good fanfics with such plot?

[Ruth Marie]

Jun 24, 2017 5:58:10 GMT -5 gzv969 said:

Jun 24, 2017 5:40:25 GMT -5 Alana said:

Unfortunatelty, the comics contradict your point of view.

I personally never really accepted the comics as canon even though they are meant to be.

Yeah, I don't know how you can treat a comic book and a television series as the same canon and class the comics are part of the series. Because not everyone reads comics. The same way, Harry Potter has films and books, both are separate. Even though some of the stories in the season 9 comics I really enjoyed and wished were real. 

[Esmeralda]

Even though CBS (who owns the rights to Charmed) will always insist that the comics are canon (so fans will buy them...) and many other fandoms count their comics as canon, when it comes to message boards like this, technically they never are since a lot of fans aren't able to get the comics so they can't discuss them.

On message boards, they're counted as "official fanon" - the same as the books - and although they can be discussed, they shouldn't be used to make a point.

[Esmeralda]

Thinking about it, I don't think Cole would make a good Source, not when he was so easily influenced by someone who was Good. He had too much humanity. Now Belthazor would've made a MAGNIFICENT Source, but NOT as magnificent as either Zankou or the Seer.

Actually this is reminding me of a one-shot fanfic that some friends and I used as an entry in a fanfic contest:

Friendship...and The Seer
by Esmeralda

Dedicated to my wonderful betas, Primrose, Aurora and Silverstar03. Could NOT have done this without you guys!

"It is done."

The Seer whispered the words to herself as she watched the new Source of All Evil place his hand on the Grimoire and say the words symbolizing the fact that he had accepted both his position and his power. A shiver of anticipation ran up and down her spine as this moment arrived. She had served many Sources in her long, long life, seen many coronations. Although this one’s reign would be one of the shortest, at its end she would finally reach her ultimate goal--possessing all of the power she had ever desired.

She smiled at the woman standing next to him. This young woman, once part of the most powerful force of good the world had ever known, would be the reason why she would have so much power for such a long time. Within this woman, this Charmed One, was a child with all the powers of a Charmed One blended with all the powers of The Source. Thanks to the potion The Seer had given to the woman and the tonic she would continue to feed her, that child would ensure that his mother remained evil for her so-short life, also ensuring that his father would, as well. Then, when the time was right for her, The Seer would bring that child into her own womb, becoming the next Source herself and then the power behind the throne of the most powerful, the most evil Source that had ever lived.

The newly crowned Source turned and walked up to his Seer, his hand linked to his queen's. He lifted the other hand to The Seer. In it laid the strangest thing—a small glass snow globe. Inside, the figure of a man held a blanket-wrapped baby in one arm, his other arm wrapped around the figure of a woman. "For you,” and he handed her the globe. “In gratitude."

The Seer's large, dark, unblinking eyes stared dumbfounded at the foreign object in her hands, her forehead furrowing as she tried to understand the full meaning behind this gift, the very first time any Source which she had served had shown any form of appreciation for her services. This was nothing she could have foreseen.

"Thank you for helping me have Phoebe as my queen and our son as my heir."

The Seer looked up at the words, staring at him, already knowing that she was going to betray him, yet felt a brief ting of something--friendship perhaps--but if so, it had to be squelched quickly. She would have to find her tonic of pure evil as soon as possible and take a sip of it herself.

Looking down at the gift again, she realized that Cole Turner had been around humans too long. No Source was supposed to have friends--it required too much humanity. The thought made her smile, thinking that this Source, standing before her now, would not even exist were it not for her own friendship with a demon named Elizabeth.

Closing her eyes, she drifted back to her earliest memories--those of growing up on the shores of the island of Jamaica. If she concentrated hard enough, she could almost hear the waves gently lapping onto the beach; smell the salt in the air, feel the grit of the sand beneath her feet and the warmth of the sun on her skin. On the outside, it appeared to be a peaceful, carefree childhood in a tropical paradise. Under the surface, however, it was a completely different story.

She was the only daughter of one of the island's most powerful voodoo practitioners and grew up with the name of Zulu, a name she had long since abandoned. Now she only went by "The Seer", an allusion to the gift of visions that she had possessed ever since she was a very young child.

"A rare and precious gift," her mother had called them. But to the young child, this gift at times seemed to be more like a curse, making her feel like even more of an outcast than she already felt. It was a lonely existence.

Few people, save for the very desperate, ever made their way to her mother’s hut. In school or at play, the other children kept their distance from her out of fear. She watched them playing together, whispering together, laughing together. They each had friends. She had none. She was always alone. This went on for years and she continually shrugged it off, pretending that it didn't hurt, but deep down--it did. Then came one sunny day when things suddenly took a very different turn.

It started as just an ordinary day after an ordinary day at school. Her mother was busy performing her strange rituals, so nine-year-old Zulu found herself standing by herself on the white sands of the beach that lay behind the grass hut that had always been her home. As usual, she was throwing the flat rocks she had found into the waves, trying to make them skip. Not as usual, she heard the sound of approaching footsteps. That in itself wasn’t unusual, as they might have been the footsteps of one of her mother’s few clients, but these footsteps were different--they weren't just any footsteps; they were the footsteps of a child. That alone was a rarity--most of the children in the nearby town took great pains to avoid walking anywhere near her home.

Turning her back to the waves, preparing to throw the rock at any one who might mean her harm, she saw a young blonde girl walking down the path in her direction. The girl’s bright hair--the color of the sun--along with her sky-blue eyes and milky-white skin fascinated the young Jamaican. She had never seen a person whose skin and eyes and hair weren’t as dark as her own. This newcomer most definitely wasn't from around the area. But Zulu didn't care--this was a chance to start fresh and maybe, just maybe, make herself a friend in the process.

That girl was Elizabeth. For the first time, Zulu met someone who wasn't afraid of her or her gift, someone who had gifts just as powerful as her own and who could show her how to properly use her visions. That someone introduced her to the dark side of magic and its leader, The Source of All Evil. The Source promised her that if she served him, she would be greatly rewarded with things she had only dreamed about, things that Elizabeth already possessed and would show Zulu how to use. Zulu quickly agreed to become one of The Source’s tools of evil.

Shortly after that meeting with The Source, Zulu had a new vision, one she shared with Elizabeth. For the first time in her life, the young Jamaican knew the fun of sharing plans with someone, and then watching the plans come to fruition. As they watched the fire consume the hut that had been the local school and listened to the screams of all of those children who had shunned her for so long, Zulu knew that her new friend had helped her embrace her own true destiny, that of The Seer.

That was the last day she was known as Zulu, the last day she had seen her mother, the last day she had set foot on Jamaica. From that day forward, her home was in the Underworld.

Together, the blonde demon and the dark Seer served the Source: The Seer with her visions, Elizabeth with her seductive beauty and demonic powers. Then, many, many years later, after serving many, many Sources, The Seer had a vision of a man stopping a team of runaway horses, saving a wagonload of children, performing a great, selfless act that would cost him his own life but would earn him his wings—the man was not only a future whitelighter; he was also a future Elder. She had to stop this vision from coming true.

After discussing it with Elizabeth, her friend tried to seduce and corrupt Benjamin Turner, something she had done often, bringing many good men over to the side of evil. But despite being very interested, Benjamin wouldn't even sleep with Elizabeth until she became his wife. Elizabeth and The Seer found it amusing that an immortal demon could be married to an ordinary mortal. When Elizabeth became pregnant, they found it even more amusing, then amazing when The Seer had a vision of Elizabeth's son as the mighty Belthazar, future Source of All Evil, capturing and raping a future powerful witch, a Charmed One, in order to produce the most evil being who would ever live.

What The Seer couldn't foresee were the feelings that Elizabeth developed for the mortal while she carried his child. It was with careful guidance and utmost urgency during young Cole’s childhood, that The Seer finally convinced her friend to turn away from Benjamin, keeping Cole from his father’s corrupting influence in order to make The Seer’s vision come true. But no matter what she said, The Seer could not prevent Elizabeth from allowing Benjamin the opportunity to visit them. She could not forbid him from seeing his son, or herself from seeing him.

Then The Seer again had the vision of the man stopping a team of runaway horses, saving a wagonload of children, performing the great, selfless act that would cost him his own life but earn him his wings. But the man in her vision wasn't Benjamin Turner; he was Benjamin Coleridge Turner II--not Elizabeth’s estranged husband, but her son. The Seer knew that the change in young Cole’s destiny had to be due to his father's influence. The Seer could not let that happen. She had to work and work quickly. When she saw Benjamin coming to visit Elizabeth and young Cole, she managed to convince Elizabeth that Benjamin was a shape-shifter, coming to steal her child and turn him good. Elizabeth could not have that happen. Using her powers, she sucked Benjamin's life right out of his body, killing him instantly, and trapping his soul inside an energy ball. Only then did Elizabeth realize what The Seer had done and whom she had just killed. Try as she did, she could not free Benjamin’s soul, not without dooming it forever.

The Seer tried to convince Elizabeth that what she had done, she had done out of friendship. Had Benjamin remained alive, their son would become a whitelighter, an Elder. No way could The Seer allow that. Neither could Elizabeth, but each time she looked at her son, she thought of the husband she loved and blamed her friend for his death. The Seer in turn was upset because Elizabeth had turned away from a relationship that she considered a sisterhood of evil, something that should have been closer than the bond of marriage...to a mortal, no less.

Ultimately Elizabeth presented the energy ball containing the trapped soul as a gift to the current Source of All Evil, taking full credit and ignoring The Seer's role in its existence. The Seer’s visions and guidance were thrown aside as if they’d meant nothing --a true sign of what demonic friendship really meant--"It lasts only until I no longer need you..."

The Seer reminded herself of those words as she watched Elizabeth's son and his queen walk away hand-in-hand, as she had reminded herself each time a new compatriot had shown the possibility of becoming a friend.

"It lasts only until they no longer need me,” she whispered to herself.

Looking down at her gift, she shook the globe and watched the snow dance around the little family, the symbol of the family Cole assumed he would have, a family that could have become her friends. She glared at the globe, finding this unacceptable. When she stirred things up, bad events were supposed to happen, but, no, the tiny figurines just stood there, continuing to smile and mock her futile efforts. Opening her hand, she watched as the snow globe with its happy family shattered on the floor before she crushed the figurines under the heel of her foot. She knew what friendship could do: prevent her from reaching her full potential. As she had told Cole Turner not so long ago, there was no way she would allow an ounce of humanity to destroy a legacy of evil.

[Alana]

Thinking about it, I don't think Cole would make a good Source, not when he was so easily influenced by someone who was Good. He had too much humanity. Now Belthazor would've made a MAGNIFICENT Source, but NOT as magnificent as either Zankou or the Seer.

Why do you think Zankou woud have been better? Cole had better understanding of humans and he wanted to unite the Underworld.

[Esmeralda]

No, despite the short time that Belthazor was Cole the lawyer, he *didn't* understand humankind, or like Zankou, he would've looked and found the Charmed Ones' weaknesses and used them against them and succeeded in killing them, as would've/should've happened had the writers not cheated and let Piper and Phoebe do something they should not have been able to - astral-project and be able to be seen and influence events around them, something that was part of Prue's power to move things with her mind, something that should not have been able to be taught. Paige might have been able to do it since moving things with her mind was also her power, but not Phoebe and Piper. Leo teaching them to do that would be like him teaching Piper to orb or Phoebe to freeze and explode things.

And as the story points out, Cole had much too much humanity to make a powerful Source. He only united the demons to get what he wanted - his son - not because he wanted to get rid of the Charmed Ones and make Evil more powerful than Good.

Had he truly made a good Source, he would've just romanced Phoebe long enough to gain her trust and then kill her, otherwise there would always be a chance that some other young so-called-vulnerable, so-called naive witch might have done the same thing all over again.

Barbas and Jeremy would've made much better Sources than Cole, even if Jeremy was a warlock - a warlock who was more demonic than all of the so-called demons in S4-8 (not counting the Demon of Fear) combined.

[sol]

OK for Barbas, but Jeremy wasn't up to the job

I believe that both Zankou and Cole'ld be a smart Suorce

[Esmeralda]

Why don't you think Jeremy wold be up to the job? Belthazor would make a smart Source; Cole wouldn't - he was too infatuated with Phoebe. But of all the characters we saw on Charmed, I still think Jeremy, Zankou and Belthazor would've made the smartest Sources. So would Rex if he wasn't just following the original Source's directions. The warlocks in Charmed were much more demonic than the demons, Cole and Zankou definitely included.