If Leo was written out when was the best time for him to go?

[lordumbrex]

Don't misconstrue tenderness for motherly tenderness. The episode "Reckless Abandon" is specifically what I'm referencing, where Phoebe was emphatically shown to have a way with kids, which is why I said before "Lost and Bound", where they introduced Piper as a motherly figure. And to a lesser extent, she had a way with Jenny and Aviva, though admittedly one could make the argument that she connected with the latter on a more friendship level (an argument I'd agree with).

And this is specifically between Piper and Phoebe, Prue doesn't fit into the equation because no matter what, she was leaving post season 3 and I think we all agree that season 4 is where the problems really start to show/this is where the thought experiment of the sisters being mothers would start. 

[Esmeralda]

And if Phoebe remained the Phoebs of Season 1 & 2 who was based on Connie Burge, I'd agree completely. That changed when she became Kern and Alyssa's PhoeME. That one was all about herself and not much else, the worst possible trait in a mother, especially of a magical child who is part-demon and if Cole is anything to be based on, could be either good or very evil depending upon how he was raised. If PhoeME raised him alone, he'd make Evil Wyatt look like a saint.

[Deleted]

I chose either 'Love Hurts' or 'Oh My Goddess' because, honestly, I didn't like the Elders being depicted as wrathful gods as they were in 'Magic Hour'. I preferred to think of them as disapproving of Witch-Whitelighter relationships, as opposed to outright hostile to the idea. I would not have wanted Leo's last scenes to be him being ripped violently from a crying Piper's arms. It's was unnecessarily dramatic. If Witch-Whitelighter relationships are so abhorrent, then why not assign charges on a gender/sexuality basis?

Anyway, I'd rather Leo had left at the end of 'Love Hurts' - with Piper understanding that it could never work. It would still be heartbreaking for her, of course, but his leaving would cause the minimal upset if she accepted it as soon as possible. Otherwise, I wish he'd left in 'Oh My Goddess', having truly ascended to the Heavens and being physically unable to live on Earth anymore. This is how Leo explained the event in the episode, but then everything that happened in Season Six contradicted this.

[Sasha]

Oh My Goddess or Love Hurts. Anything after S5 is really pushing it.

I didn't like how everything in season 6 made what happened in Oh My Goddess a waste of time. I remember watching Oh My Goddess the first time thinking Leo was gone forever. That Chris killed Leo for good in the cliffhanger, and really being excited to enter S6, with the main villain being someone from the future who just killed the love of Piper's life. Boy was I wrong!

[Esmeralda]

Feb 26, 2018 23:34:28 GMT -5 Sasha said:

Oh My Goddess or Love Hurts. Anything after S5 is really pushing it.

I didn't like how everything in season 6 made what happened in Oh My Goddess a waste of time. I remember watching Oh My Goddess the first time thinking Leo was gone forever. That Chris killed Leo for good in the cliffhanger, and really being excited to enter S6, with the main villain being someone from the future who just killed the love of Piper's life. Boy was I wrong!

If you only knew how much I wish that you had been right - because I thought the same thing and continued to think it (except that he wanted to get rid of Leo so he could kill Wyatt) until HE was killed and then I celebrated!

That's how horribly S6 was written and what a dreadful decision it was to have a cardboard actor like Drew Fuller play a complex character like Chris.

[Sasha]

Feb 27, 2018 0:14:32 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Feb 26, 2018 23:34:28 GMT -5 Sasha said:

Oh My Goddess or Love Hurts. Anything after S5 is really pushing it.

I didn't like how everything in season 6 made what happened in Oh My Goddess a waste of time. I remember watching Oh My Goddess the first time thinking Leo was gone forever. That Chris killed Leo for good in the cliffhanger, and really being excited to enter S6, with the main villain being someone from the future who just killed the love of Piper's life. Boy was I wrong!

If you only knew how much I wish that you had been right - because I thought the same thing and continued to think it (except that he wanted to get rid of Leo so he could kill Wyatt) until HE was killed and then I celebrated!

That's how horribly S6 was written and what a dreadful decision it was to have a cardboard actor like Drew Fuller play a complex character like Chris.

I wholeheartedly agree. An actor who had the acting chops to pull off a story like that would be very impressive. I just didn't think Drew Fuller was capable of it. 

[prudencehalliwell]

Love Hurts would have been the best point to have him leave as it would be more difficult the longer he stays. Murphy's Luck when Leo get's his powers back may have been a good point for him to leave for good when he realizes he loves being a whitelighter and helping innocents and he and Piper part ways this way.

I went with Love Hurts and P3 H20 as my two choices.

[Esmeralda]

Mar 20, 2018 9:19:23 GMT -5 prudencehalliwell said:

Love Hurts would have been the best point to have him leave as it would be more difficult the longer he stays. Murphy's Luck when Leo get's his powers back may have been a good point for him to leave for good when he realizes he loves being a whitelighter and helping innocents and he and Piper part ways this way.

I went with Love Hurts and P3 H20 as my two choices.

I hadn't considered 'Murphy's Luck' as a good spot for him to leave and not come back, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. Had it become a true choice between being a whiteighter or being Piper's husband and especially if she reminded him of what they decided during 'Love Hurts' and 'Morality Bites' so he decides to leave and not return...oh, yes, that would've been perfect, because it means that Piper could've remained the one I loved in S1 & S2. And, of course, it means no Wyatt or Chris! YES!

About the only reason why I'd prefer 'Love Hurts' is it means that Ted King probably would've been convinced to stay and I would've liked to have seen him as part of the show even after Prue dies as their connection to the real world, something Darryl never quite succeeded in doing, but that the boy next door who Piper and Phoebe grew up with could've.

[prudencehalliwell]

Mar 21, 2018 1:57:20 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Mar 20, 2018 9:19:23 GMT -5 prudencehalliwell said:

Love Hurts would have been the best point to have him leave as it would be more difficult the longer he stays. Murphy's Luck when Leo get's his powers back may have been a good point for him to leave for good when he realizes he loves being a whitelighter and helping innocents and he and Piper part ways this way.

I went with Love Hurts and P3 H20 as my two choices.

I hadn't considered 'Murphy's Luck' as a good spot for him to leave and not come back, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. Had it become a true choice between being a whiteighter or being Piper's husband and especially if she reminded him of what they decided during 'Love Hurts' and 'Morality Bites' so he decides to leave and not return...oh, yes, that would've been perfect, because it means that Piper could've remained the one I loved in S1 & S2. And, of course, it means no Wyatt or Chris! YES!

About the only reason why I'd prefer 'Love Hurts' is it means that Ted King probably would've been convinced to stay and I would've liked to have seen him as part of the show even after Prue dies as their connection to the real world, something Darryl never quite succeeded in doing, but that the boy next door who Piper and Phoebe grew up with could've.

I agree that Andy may well have had a place on the series even after Prue dies, he may have mastered the storylines and role Darryl brought to the table better. Like you said, he was the boy next door who Piper and Phoebe grew up with. So he had the best chance out of any supporting character to keep them on the right path. 

Even though I feel strongly about Murphys Luck as an ending to Leo, I do see your point of view. If I had to pick between having Ted King convinced to stay if Love Hurts is Leo's last, over keeping Leo around a little longer and risk not getting more Andy. I'd pick Love Hurts as Leo's last. 

[Ruth Marie]

I think Love Hurts is the perfect spot for Leo to go. I still prefer Andy being around for all eight seasons, I think his role would be better and more so than Darryl, because of his history with the sisters. It means less focus on the Elders completely and a more grounded show.

I never considered Murphy's Luck as a spot to get rid of Leo before. But I'd have been fine if this was the end for him. If it means Piper just remains the Piper I love in S1 and S2, and she just continues her life and focuses on her job, with her true love not coming until Season 7 or 8, then yes. Had this happened, I wonder if we'd get any stories like Wyatt and Chris, I believe we wouldn't. But wouldn't stop them from doing more with Phoebe and her child, assuming we'd still get that Cole arc. Maybe?

[Hexenwerk]

Jun 1, 2018 23:22:47 GMT -5 Ruth Marie said:

I think Love Hurts is the perfect spot for Leo to go. I still prefer Andy being around for all eight seasons, I think his role would be better and more so than Darryl, because of his history with the sisters. It means less focus on the Elders completely and a more grounded show.

I never considered Murphy's Luck as a spot to get rid of Leo before. But I'd have been fine if this was the end for him. If it means Piper just remains the Piper I love in S1 and S2, and she just continues her life and focuses on her job, with her true love not coming until Season 7 or 8, then yes. Had this happened, I wonder if we'd get any stories like Wyatt and Chris, I believe we wouldn't. But wouldn't stop them from doing more with Phoebe and her child, assuming we'd still get that Cole arc. Maybe?

I can see why Murphy's Luck would be a feasible place for Leo to leave, but I don't like it as the place in regard to the episode's integrity. The part with Piper and Leo distracted from the main story of the episode as it was.

[Ruth Marie]

Jun 1, 2018 23:34:13 GMT -5 Hexenwerk said:

Jun 1, 2018 23:22:47 GMT -5 Ruth Marie said:

I think Love Hurts is the perfect spot for Leo to go. I still prefer Andy being around for all eight seasons, I think his role would be better and more so than Darryl, because of his history with the sisters. It means less focus on the Elders completely and a more grounded show.

I never considered Murphy's Luck as a spot to get rid of Leo before. But I'd have been fine if this was the end for him. If it means Piper just remains the Piper I love in S1 and S2, and she just continues her life and focuses on her job, with her true love not coming until Season 7 or 8, then yes. Had this happened, I wonder if we'd get any stories like Wyatt and Chris, I believe we wouldn't. But wouldn't stop them from doing more with Phoebe and her child, assuming we'd still get that Cole arc. Maybe?

I can see why Murphy's Luck would be a feasible place for Leo to leave, but I don't like it as the place in regard to the episode's integrity. The part with Piper and Leo distracted from the main story of the episode as it was.

That's true. I liked the Murphy's Luck story, and so excited to rewatch this when we reach it on our rewatch.

[Hexenwerk]

Jun 1, 2018 23:36:36 GMT -5 Ruth Marie said:

Jun 1, 2018 23:34:13 GMT -5 Hexenwerk said:

I can see why Murphy's Luck would be a feasible place for Leo to leave, but I don't like it as the place in regard to the episode's integrity. The part with Piper and Leo distracted from the main story of the episode as it was.

That's true. I liked the Murphy's Luck story, and so excited to rewatch this when we reach it on our rewatch.

It's not the best episode, but it is one that is very important and dear to me. I didn't know it was on the rewatch, I'm so excited! I thought that a bunch of fans didn't like that episode much.

[Ruth Marie]

Jun 1, 2018 23:42:41 GMT -5 Hexenwerk said:

Jun 1, 2018 23:36:36 GMT -5 Ruth Marie said:

That's true. I liked the Murphy's Luck story, and so excited to rewatch this when we reach it on our rewatch.

It's not the best episode, but it is one that is very important and dear to me. I didn't know it was on the rewatch, I'm so excited! I thought that a bunch of fans didn't like that episode much.

Me too. Lots of surprises for the episodes were voted in. I guess it's fun to also watch what you haven't seen in ages.

[West]

Jun 2, 2018 0:14:37 GMT -5 Ruth Marie said:

Jun 1, 2018 23:42:41 GMT -5 Hexenwerk said:

It's not the best episode, but it is one that is very important and dear to me. I didn't know it was on the rewatch, I'm so excited! I thought that a bunch of fans didn't like that episode much.

Me too. Lots of surprises for the episodes were voted in. I guess it's fun to also watch what you haven't seen in ages.

Its fun to see that not all the commonly popular or known episodes made it. It's nice to see that a good variety of episodes were selected. 

[Melinda Halliwell]

For me, Maggie was a great innocent and a deserved future whitelighter in what she done.

I liked the storyline with Prue helping her which backfired unfortunately when the Darklighter got her and the emotion Shannen showed in her slow downward spiraled decent which shows also why I liked the episode too.

[Hexenwerk]

Jun 2, 2018 2:09:20 GMT -5 Melinda Halliwell said:

For me, Maggie was a great innocent and a deserved future whitelighter in what she done.

I liked the storyline with Prue helping her which backfired unfortunately when the Darklighter got her and the emotion Shannen showed in her slow downward spiraled decent which shows also why I liked the episode too.

Maggie was one of my favorite innocents. And the Darklighter actually chilled me because so much of what he said was almost word-for-word what some of my thoughts were back during my own dark times. The Catholic influence was very easy to see in the whole "lose your soul if you commit suicide" thing, though, and I thought that rule was honestly so unfair.

Agreed! I liked the glimpse it showed into the sisters' teenage years, I wish we could've gotten to know more about what they were like growing up. I think the storyline with Leo and Piper was kind've awkwardly added in, though, and could've worked better in a different episode. I also would've liked to have seen more interaction between Prue and Phoebe because it sounded like their past conflict was pertinent and it could've illustrated how much closer they've become and how much more they respect each other at this point in the show.

[Granny Charmed]

Jun 3, 2018 18:23:40 GMT -5 Hexenwerk said:

Jun 2, 2018 2:09:20 GMT -5 Melinda Halliwell said:

For me, Maggie was a great innocent and a deserved future whitelighter in what she done.

I liked the storyline with Prue helping her which backfired unfortunately when the Darklighter got her and the emotion Shannen showed in her slow downward spiraled decent which shows also why I liked the episode too.

Maggie was one of my favorite innocents. And the Darklighter actually chilled me because so much of what he said was almost word-for-word what some of my thoughts were back during my own dark times. The Catholic influence was very easy to see in the whole "lose your soul if you commit suicide" thing, though, and I thought that rule was honestly so unfair.

Agreed! I liked the glimpse it showed into the sisters' teenage years, I wish we could've gotten to know more about what they were like growing up. I think the storyline with Leo and Piper was kind've awkwardly added in, though, and could've worked better in a different episode. I also would've liked to have seen more interaction between Prue and Phoebe because it sounded like their past conflict was pertinent and it could've illustrated how much closer they've become and how much more they respect each other at this point in the show.

I never thought about that, but your right. This episode could just as well have worked without the Piper/Leo story. Had it not included it, then perhaps they would have had more time dear to show us some flashbacks with the sisters and the events that went down with Prue and Phoebe. 

[Esmeralda]

And I can't totally agree because Leo asking for his powers back is the only part of the whole Leo-Piper-Dan storyline that I like, even if it irritated me that they never showed what exactly Leo did.

But I'd gladly give up that scene if it meant not having Leo and Piper turned into the horrible creatures they became after Prue's death, especially if it meant keeping Andy and it meant the inability to add half-whitelighters and turning the show from "Charmed" to "Angel" where having a whitelighter for a father was more important than having a Warren for a mother.

About the only problem with that is I have a hunch had we not had Leo, that whole triangle would've been Andy-Prue-Dan (including Andy and Prue having Melinda in 'Morality Bites' while Piper's the one owning a bunch of restaurants) and I don't think I"d like that any more than I liked Leo-Piper-Dan.

[Hexenwerk]

Jun 23, 2018 21:53:37 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

And I can't totally agree because Leo asking for his powers back is the only part of the whole Leo-Piper-Dan storyline that I like, even if it irritated me that they never showed what exactly Leo did.

But I'd gladly give up that scene if it meant not having Leo and Piper turned into the horrible creatures they became after Prue's death, especially if it meant keeping Andy and it meant the inability to add half-whitelighters and turning the show from "Charmed" to "Angel" where having a whitelighter for a father was more important than having a Warren for a mother.

About the only problem with that is I have a hunch had we not had Leo, that whole triangle would've been Andy-Prue-Dan (including Andy and Prue having Melinda in 'Morality Bites' while Piper's the one owning a bunch of restaurants) and I don't think I"d like that any more than I liked Leo-Piper-Dan.

I do like the part where Leo asked for his powers back, but his going back and forth on whether or not he wanted to be mortal in the second season was just unappreciated in general after a while. I also felt like it kind've spit on the fact that he became a Whitelighter as something he earned in life and a way he could continue helping innocent people after he died.

But oh no, that sounds like a way worse love triangle than Leo-Piper-Dan.