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Post by helenambrosia on Oct 21, 2019 16:05:11 GMT -5
Piper is probably the most annoying character since season 2. She has a short temper and is just an overall bitch to Leo the whole time. Why can’t the actress portray the character with a different tone
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Post by Elle Em on Oct 22, 2019 19:07:02 GMT -5
I wonder sometimes how much an actress's personality bleeds through into her character, especially after they've gotten so used to playing them. This is something I've noticed on other shows as well, that as the show goes on for more than four or five seasons, the characters change, whether they're written differently or not. I remember watching an interview that an actor did, and then watching this same guy in a later season episode of a show, and it was the same person. In earlier seasons, he was much different.
I know that a lot of what Phoebe went through in the latter half of the show (obsessed with finding a husband and having a baby) were things that Alyssa later came out as saying were really important to her at that time in real life. And knowing that she was a producer during those years makes it seem like she treated the show as her own personal way of working through problems that had nothing to do with the story.
As far as Holly goes, it does seem like she chose to play Piper in a harsh way at times. I don't know much about her, but she seems to be a bit snarky in real life from what little I've seen of her outside the show. I remember how sweet and kind she played Piper at the beginning, and it makes me wonder how much of it was the writing in the later seasons, or how much of it was the actress.
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Post by helenambrosia on Oct 23, 2019 1:39:55 GMT -5
Good point Elle em. Not sure if holly is mean in real life. I love watching charmed, but pipers attitude is such a turn off. If holly would have said those lines in a different tone, the show would have been much more tolerable
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Post by prudencehalliwell on Oct 23, 2019 7:37:46 GMT -5
Good point Elle em. Not sure if holly is mean in real life. I love watching charmed, but pipers attitude is such a turn off. If holly would have said those lines in a different tone, the show would have been much more tolerable I wonder how much influence she had, when she and Alyssa became producers. And actors do tend to get more influence on the show as it gets older, and do get more input sometimes. But then again, Connie was gone (the sisters being based on herself and two older sisters Edie and Laura.) and Kern took over, so the sisters were not longer the ones Connie based them on.
Because some instances they revert back briefly to the ones I love, and instances when they revert back to the sisters I hate.
So far in the re-watch we are doing, currently in the second season and start 'The Painted World this weekend in production order. The sisters are fantastic and the ones I love, so I can't wait to pin point the moment Piper is longer the one I love. Also Kern actually did a decent job in 'Witch Trial' with the sisters and episode, who knew he actually can pull out a decent episode, but it still had a few things not perfect.
Although some found traces of the Piper you described helenaambrsia in 'Love Hurts' briefly with her attitude to Leo, then she goes back to the Piper we love, and then back to the same attitude. So you might be right, that maybe it is just the way Holly played it, and she should have said those lines in a different tone. But maybe Holly and Piper do share the same snarky attitude, but I don't know Holly personally, to know about her real life to judge.
So it is hard to say who is really to blame. A mix of the actors, Kern and The WB.
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Post by helenambrosia on Oct 23, 2019 14:12:54 GMT -5
I’m watching charmed for the first time rn and Piper starting season two pissed me off so much, I had to go on the Internet to see if there were others who feel the same way, that’s how I found this forum. I LOVE this show but Piper’s bitchy attitude is a huge turn off for me. The constant nagging and snappiness is so overdone and annoying. I really wish they casted a different actress for piper.
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Post by codebox on Nov 12, 2019 20:10:30 GMT -5
Agree to Disagree. I have the minority opinion here, while Piper is the weakest of the sisters character wise this season compared to Season 1 I don't think it's enough to verge of character assassination. I agree in that I don't like the way she treats Leo which started with the episode "The Devil's Music", but at the same time I can't entirely root for Leo due to him carrying more about wanting Piper than doing his job. I also agree the way she treated Dan was bad too, but to her credit I do like how she just tells Dan she wants to be with Leo...
I guess where I'm coming at is in love triangle plots typically the person in the middle is written unfavorably simply so the plot can exist. So Piper is only written to be bad against Leo and Dan. However where I disagree is that her character outside of the love triangle is still grounded enough to be considered likable. For instance, while I think Devil's Music certainly added the snarky harshness to her, the climax scene in which she confronts Carlton she's worried for Jenny's well being and threatens him to let them know the wereabouts of Masselin so they can save those girls, contrast this to the beginning where she was more angry at Leo because his meddling of the situation got in the way of Piper getting dishwalla to play at P3, intially coming off as having that take priority over their job, which admittedly annoyed me as well, but it was more out of frustration toward Leo than any sort of detached cynicism like later.
Piper has shining moments in this season that I think get overlooked, I'm not saying the love triangle should be excused by any chance, but I only think Piper's bad when it comes to that specifically because she's victim to that particular trope and not because they character herself is like that. For instance moments like the mentioned scene in Devil's Music and especially the ending of Astral Monkey make season 2 Piper still Piper to me. Because by Astral Monkey she knew she wanted Leo by that point and the love triangle between Piper, Leo and Dan had become less of a focus after Ex Libris (which I feel was the worst usage of it) I still think Piper's end scene of Astral Monkey is by far the strongest moment of her character in the show.
There's also the scene in Apocalypse Not where upon seeing one of the Four Horseman she instantly springs into action by chasing him, yes the most resistant of being a witch is now running after the bad guy simply because of her calling, it might not seem like much, but that scene stuck out to me because of how much the most hesitant in their destiny is now actively chasing a bad guy..
At least I can find some good things about Piper in Season 2 compared to later seasons. After Season 4A (Charmed and Dangerous) she became a very insufferable, naggy character who's cynical nature is so detached to a ludicrous degree. And her treatment of Leo borders on domestic abuse. Especially in Season 7 where their relationship is focused on more than any point in the show. She has little redeeming factors past Season 4.
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codebox
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Post by codebox on Nov 12, 2019 20:14:58 GMT -5
I’m watching charmed for the first time rn and Piper starting season two pissed me off so much, I had to go on the Internet to see if there were others who feel the same way, that’s how I found this forum. I LOVE this show but Piper’s bitchy attitude is a huge turn off for me. The constant nagging and snappiness is so overdone and annoying. I really wish they casted a different actress for piper. Agree to Disagree. I have the minority opinion here, while Piper is the weakest of the sisters character wise this season compared to Season 1 I don't think it's enough to verge of character assassination. I agree in that I don't like the way she treats Leo which started with the episode "The Devil's Music", but at the same time I can't entirely root for Leo due to him carrying more about wanting Piper than doing his job. I also agree the way she treated Dan was bad too, but to her credit I do like how she just tells Dan she wants to be with Leo... I guess where I'm coming at is in love triangle plots typically the person in the middle is written unfavorably simply so the plot can exist. So Piper is only written to be bad against Leo and Dan. However where I disagree is that her character outside of the love triangle is still grounded enough to be considered likable. For instance, while I think Devil's Music certainly added the snarky harshness to her, the climax scene in which she confronts Carlton she's worried for Jenny's well being and threatens him to let them know the wereabouts of Masselin so they can save those girls, contrast this to the beginning where she was more angry at Leo because his meddling of the situation got in the way of Piper getting dishwalla to play at P3, intially coming off as having that take priority over their job, which admittedly annoyed me as well, but it was more out of frustration toward Leo than any sort of detached cynicism like later. Piper has shining moments in this season that I think get overlooked, I'm not saying the love triangle should be excused by any chance, but I only think Piper's bad when it comes to that specifically because she's victim to that particular trope and not because they character herself is like that. For instance moments like the mentioned scene in Devil's Music and especially the ending of Astral Monkey make season 2 Piper still Piper to me. Because by Astral Monkey she knew she wanted Leo by that point and the love triangle between Piper, Leo and Dan had become less of a focus after Ex Libris (which I feel was the worst usage of it) I still think Piper's end scene of Astral Monkey is by far the strongest moment of her character in the show. There's also the scene in Apocalypse Not where upon seeing one of the Four Horseman she instantly springs into action by chasing him, yes the most resistant of being a witch is now running after the bad guy simply because of her calling, it might not seem like much, but that scene stuck out to me because of how much the most hesitant in their destiny is now actively chasing a bad guy.. At least I can find some good things about Piper in Season 2 compared to later seasons. After Season 4A (Charmed and Dangerous) she became a very insufferable, naggy character who's cynical nature is so detached to a ludicrous degree. And her treatment of Leo borders on domestic abuse. Especially in Season 7 where their relationship is focused on more than any point in the show. She has little redeeming factors past Season 4. |
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Post by prudencehalliwell on Nov 12, 2019 21:48:02 GMT -5
Agree to Disagree. I have the minority opinion here, while Piper is the weakest of the sisters character wise this season compared to Season 1 I don't think it's enough to verge of character assassination. I agree in that I don't like the way she treats Leo which started with the episode "The Devil's Music", but at the same time I can't entirely root for Leo due to him carrying more about wanting Piper than doing his job. I also agree the way she treated Dan was bad too, but to her credit I do like how she just tells Dan she wants to be with Leo... I guess where I'm coming at is in love triangle plots typically the person in the middle is written unfavorably simply so the plot can exist. So Piper is only written to be bad against Leo and Dan. However where I disagree is that her character outside of the love triangle is still grounded enough to be considered likable. For instance, while I think Devil's Music certainly added the snarky harshness to her, the climax scene in which she confronts Carlton she's worried for Jenny's well being and threatens him to let them know the wereabouts of Masselin so they can save those girls, contrast this to the beginning where she was more angry at Leo because his meddling of the situation got in the way of Piper getting dishwalla to play at P3, intially coming off as having that take priority over their job, which admittedly annoyed me as well, but it was more out of frustration toward Leo than any sort of detached cynicism like later. Piper has shining moments in this season that I think get overlooked, I'm not saying the love triangle should be excused by any chance, but I only think Piper's bad when it comes to that specifically because she's victim to that particular trope and not because they character herself is like that. For instance moments like the mentioned scene in Devil's Music and especially the ending of Astral Monkey make season 2 Piper still Piper to me. Because by Astral Monkey she knew she wanted Leo by that point and the love triangle between Piper, Leo and Dan had become less of a focus after Ex Libris (which I feel was the worst usage of it) I still think Piper's end scene of Astral Monkey is by far the strongest moment of her character in the show. There's also the scene in Apocalypse Not where upon seeing one of the Four Horseman she instantly springs into action by chasing him, yes the most resistant of being a witch is now running after the bad guy simply because of her calling, it might not seem like much, but that scene stuck out to me because of how much the most hesitant in their destiny is now actively chasing a bad guy.. At least I can find some good things about Piper in Season 2 compared to later seasons. After Season 4A (Charmed and Dangerous) she became a very insufferable, naggy character who's cynical nature is so detached to a ludicrous degree. And her treatment of Leo borders on domestic abuse. Especially in Season 7 where their relationship is focused on more than any point in the show. She has little redeeming factors past Season 4. Also having re-watched the series right through to 'Devil's Music' with the Cafe re-watch. She has moments in Love Hurts and 'The Devil's Music' when it has to do with Leo, that she comes off as horrible but has some good ones too. But having watched all the episodes up to this point, the bad moments just stand out more. I wonder, how I'd feel if, I was just jumping and watching these episodes at random, and not in order. But were watching these in production order, not airing order. I also didn't like how she forget about Leo after he left, and already kissing another guy, and then liking Dan. So Morality Bites, although a fantastic episode, always feels out of place, regardless of what order you watch it, with Leo suddenly popping up as if he never left, coming right off Piper starting to like Dan. I do love Piper and Leo in the scene with watching Melinda with her tea set, such a strong moment for her character. But I don't like how much this already influences her character when she is complaining about Leo, mentioning their trip to the future in 'The Devil's Music'. I know this will happen more and more, always makes me wonder how S2 and S3 play out if Piper never discovered she had a daughter in the future and was married to Leo. Astral Monkey is a very good Piper episode, and she has some really good moments in this episode. I can't wait to re-watch it. We all loved that moment with Piper saying that Barker, in the end, it was one of the most of the rewatchers favorite moment. She still has her moments. But we're re-watching S2 most of us weekly, so we'll get to see how this progresses and how we feel about Piper, when we get to more and more episodes. I just didn't like her in TDM. I'm looking forward to seeing these next episodes, and looking out for more good moments with Piper, outside the love triangle. Out of interest codebox, have you been re-watching the series lately especially S1 and S2? |
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Post by codebox on Nov 13, 2019 6:31:40 GMT -5
Agree to Disagree. I have the minority opinion here, while Piper is the weakest of the sisters character wise this season compared to Season 1 I don't think it's enough to verge of character assassination. I agree in that I don't like the way she treats Leo which started with the episode "The Devil's Music", but at the same time I can't entirely root for Leo due to him carrying more about wanting Piper than doing his job. I also agree the way she treated Dan was bad too, but to her credit I do like how she just tells Dan she wants to be with Leo... I guess where I'm coming at is in love triangle plots typically the person in the middle is written unfavorably simply so the plot can exist. So Piper is only written to be bad against Leo and Dan. However where I disagree is that her character outside of the love triangle is still grounded enough to be considered likable. For instance, while I think Devil's Music certainly added the snarky harshness to her, the climax scene in which she confronts Carlton she's worried for Jenny's well being and threatens him to let them know the wereabouts of Masselin so they can save those girls, contrast this to the beginning where she was more angry at Leo because his meddling of the situation got in the way of Piper getting dishwalla to play at P3, intially coming off as having that take priority over their job, which admittedly annoyed me as well, but it was more out of frustration toward Leo than any sort of detached cynicism like later. Piper has shining moments in this season that I think get overlooked, I'm not saying the love triangle should be excused by any chance, but I only think Piper's bad when it comes to that specifically because she's victim to that particular trope and not because they character herself is like that. For instance moments like the mentioned scene in Devil's Music and especially the ending of Astral Monkey make season 2 Piper still Piper to me. Because by Astral Monkey she knew she wanted Leo by that point and the love triangle between Piper, Leo and Dan had become less of a focus after Ex Libris (which I feel was the worst usage of it) I still think Piper's end scene of Astral Monkey is by far the strongest moment of her character in the show. There's also the scene in Apocalypse Not where upon seeing one of the Four Horseman she instantly springs into action by chasing him, yes the most resistant of being a witch is now running after the bad guy simply because of her calling, it might not seem like much, but that scene stuck out to me because of how much the most hesitant in their destiny is now actively chasing a bad guy.. At least I can find some good things about Piper in Season 2 compared to later seasons. After Season 4A (Charmed and Dangerous) she became a very insufferable, naggy character who's cynical nature is so detached to a ludicrous degree. And her treatment of Leo borders on domestic abuse. Especially in Season 7 where their relationship is focused on more than any point in the show. She has little redeeming factors past Season 4. Also having re-watched the series right through to 'Devil's Music' with the Cafe re-watch. She has moments in Love Hurts and 'The Devil's Music' when it has to do with Leo, that she comes off as horrible but has some good ones too. But having watched all the episodes up to this point, the bad moments just stand out more. I wonder, how I'd feel if, I was just jumping and watching these episodes at random, and not in order. But were watching these in production order, not airing order. I also didn't like how she forget about Leo after he left, and already kissing another guy, and then liking Dan. So Morality Bites, although a fantastic episode, always feels out of place, regardless of what order you watch it, with Leo suddenly popping up as if he never left, coming right off Piper starting to like Dan. I do love Piper and Leo in the scene with watching Melinda with her tea set, such a strong moment for her character. But I don't like how much this already influences her character when she is complaining about Leo, mentioning their trip to the future in 'The Devil's Music'. I know this will happen more and more, always makes me wonder how S2 and S3 play out if Piper never discovered she had a daughter in the future and was married to Leo. Astral Monkey is a very good Piper episode, and she has some really good moments in this episode. I can't wait to re-watch it. We all loved that moment with Piper saying that Barker, in the end, it was one of the most of the rewatchers favorite moment. She still has her moments. But we're re-watching S2 most of us weekly, so we'll get to see how this progresses and how we feel about Piper, when we get to more and more episodes. I just didn't like her in TDM. I'm looking forward to seeing these next episodes, and looking out for more good moments with Piper, outside the love triangle. Out of interest codebox, have you been re-watching the series lately especially S1 and S2? Those are good points to consider and how those bad moments stick out. My only argument is that it isn't the entire basis of Piper's character and she had enough balance of moments outside the love triangle so that she isn't completely ruined as a character, it's just her moments with Leo I don't like. That point about Morality Bites and Dan are good to consider though. I also find when she found out what she wanted in the end Leo, she began to refocus herself which is why past Ex Libris Piper is a lot more like the caring Piper we knew. But then again I can say this for Piper in general, her stronger moments are usually focused outside of her relationship with Leo. In later seasons her moments with Leo are more prefound to the point it takes over the entire character, rather than just being moments that show up here and there. I thought she was okay in The Devil's Music, mainly toward the end scene where she confronts Carlton and wants to save Jenny and the other captive girls. Otherwise I hated her scene with Leo. Yes I have been observing the show here and there, why do you ask? |
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Post by Esmeralda on Nov 13, 2019 19:30:33 GMT -5
During Sunday's rewrite of S2, we're leaving Leo out of it. It's amazing how just leaving those scenes out makes Piper such a better person - more like the one we loved in S1. I've said all along that a Halliwell in love is not a nice person - Paige was lucky to not be raised by Grams!
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Post by codebox on Nov 13, 2019 22:01:49 GMT -5
This ^ Yes exactly my point. Piper's only bad written with Leo, but not to the point of character assassination. There's still a lot to like about Piper this season and her moments outside of Leo shouldn't be overlooked. Plus it was during the time her sarcasm could be funny, instead of annoying all the time.
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Post by West on Nov 13, 2019 22:14:35 GMT -5
This ^ Yes exactly my point. Piper's only bad written with Leo, but not to the point of character assassination. There's still a lot to like about Piper this season and her moments outside of Leo shouldn't be overlooked. Plus it was during the time her sarcasm could be funny, instead of annoying all the time. Started re-watching S2, and watched 'The Painted World' last night, will post a review of it in the Anniversary Board, when I can. Curious to see what I think when I reach 'Devil's Music', I haven't re-watched the show for a good number of years. I didn't like Piper in S2, but only when it came to the love triangle and Leo and Dan. I don't think the real character assassination for Piper takes real effect until Season 4. |
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Post by Ruth Marie on Nov 13, 2019 23:14:52 GMT -5
During Sunday's rewrite of S2, we're leaving Leo out of it. It's amazing how just leaving those scenes out makes Piper such a better person - more like the one we loved in S1. I've said all along that a Halliwell in love is not a nice person - Paige was lucky to not be raised by Grams! So much better, and she becomes someone we love. This ^ Yes exactly my point. Piper's only bad written with Leo, but not to the point of character assassination. There's still a lot to like about Piper this season and her moments outside of Leo shouldn't be overlooked. Plus it was during the time her sarcasm could be funny, instead of annoying all the time. Yes, and re-watching the show so far with our re-watches, she gets all the best and funny lines. She's still our Piper when you remove her relationship stories. Which makes me so sad, once Cole shows up, our Phoebe loses herself, because she is just a joy to watch in S1 and S2. |
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Post by codebox on Nov 14, 2019 5:08:56 GMT -5
During Sunday's rewrite of S2, we're leaving Leo out of it. It's amazing how just leaving those scenes out makes Piper such a better person - more like the one we loved in S1. I've said all along that a Halliwell in love is not a nice person - Paige was lucky to not be raised by Grams! So much better, and she becomes someone we love. This ^ Yes exactly my point. Piper's only bad written with Leo, but not to the point of character assassination. There's still a lot to like about Piper this season and her moments outside of Leo shouldn't be overlooked. Plus it was during the time her sarcasm could be funny, instead of annoying all the time. Yes, and re-watching the show so far with our re-watches, she gets all the best and funny lines. She's still our Piper when you remove her relationship stories. Which makes me so sad, once Cole shows up, our Phoebe loses herself, because she is just a joy to watch in S1 and S2. I personally think Cole ruined Phoebe more than the love triangle did to Piper. At least Piper was still herself when scenes/episodes didn't focus on the love triangle. There was enough moments to balance out her not so good ones (though I still hated Piper in Ex Libris) Phoebe however once she dates Cole loses herself entirely and becomes a different person. It's such a rapid change that Idk how just being with Cole instantly changed her. It's such a shame because Season 2 was soooo great for Phoebe! Had she kept this persona up she honestly would've been my favorite sister. She's so good in this season! |
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Post by Ruth Marie on Nov 14, 2019 6:26:49 GMT -5
So much better, and she becomes someone we love. Yes, and re-watching the show so far with our re-watches, she gets all the best and funny lines. She's still our Piper when you remove her relationship stories. Which makes me so sad, once Cole shows up, our Phoebe loses herself, because she is just a joy to watch in S1 and S2. I personally think Cole ruined Phoebe more than the love triangle did to Piper. At least Piper was still herself when scenes/episodes didn't focus on the love triangle. There was enough moments to balance out her not so good ones (though I still hated Piper in Ex Libris) Phoebe however once she dates Cole loses herself entirely and becomes a different person. It's such a rapid change that Idk how just being with Cole instantly changed her. It's such a shame because Season 2 was soooo great for Phoebe! Had she kept this persona up she honestly would've been my favorite sister. She's so good in this season! Since Phoebe was based after Connie herself, Once Kern got complete control and Connie left, he completely changed her to his vision of how the younger sister should act. Because the shift just made no sense given the person she was. I do remember liking her in Pre-Witched an episode that had a strong focus on the sisterhood and Cole wasn't present. I'm hoping to find traces of Phoebs once she dates Cole in our re-watch. I hope so. Es is right. The Halliwells in love are not fun characters. |
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codebox
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Post by codebox on Nov 14, 2019 19:25:33 GMT -5
I personally think Cole ruined Phoebe more than the love triangle did to Piper. At least Piper was still herself when scenes/episodes didn't focus on the love triangle. There was enough moments to balance out her not so good ones (though I still hated Piper in Ex Libris) Phoebe however once she dates Cole loses herself entirely and becomes a different person. It's such a rapid change that Idk how just being with Cole instantly changed her. It's such a shame because Season 2 was soooo great for Phoebe! Had she kept this persona up she honestly would've been my favorite sister. She's so good in this season! Since Phoebe was based after Connie herself, Once Kern got complete control and Connie left, he completely changed her to his vision of how the younger sister should act. Because the shift just made no sense given the person she was. I do remember liking her in Pre-Witched an episode that had a strong focus on the sisterhood and Cole wasn't present. I'm hoping to find traces of Phoebs once she dates Cole in our re-watch. I hope so. Es is right. The Halliwells in love are not fun characters. As mentioned with Piper when not focused on Leo and Dan she was great! With Phoebe, being with Cole gave her character assassination unlike Piper with the Dan/Leo situation. It's worse with Phoebe because Cole had to literally be absent just for her to care about her sisters or the conflict, whereas Dan or Leo could still be in an episode, and have Piper be likable, only when scenes focused her specifically away from them. An example of this is Astral Monkey, she has that beautiful scene where Leo orbs in to a greiving Piper because she couldn't save Doctor Williamson. As long as Cole was around Phoebe would be bad, regardless how involved he was. it doesn't help Phoebe was worse to Cole than Piper was to Dan/Leo. Her only tolerable moments like Pre-Witched, We All Scream for Ice Cream, Coyote Piper, Sin Francisco and the first 4 episodes of Season 3 and the latter was because their relationship was barely focused yet. The only exception to this was her speech to Astral Prue in Just Harried. I absolutely hated Phoebe in episodes like -Power Outage -Sleuthing with the Enemy -Sight Unseen -Exit Strategy -The Demon Who Came in From the Cold -All Hell Breaks Loose And unpopular opinion I think Phoebe sorta ruins Power Outage for me, and not many people note the main problem. I also deem it the birth of PhoeME episode. Phoebe is the most annoying character in Season 3 and she adds to the bad aspects of that season for me and creates my least favorite character in the show. At least Piper just annoyed me in Just Harried, Death Takes a Halliwell and Wrestling with Demons. |
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Post by ljones on Dec 21, 2019 12:54:46 GMT -5
Piper is probably the most annoying character since season 2. She has a short temper and is just an overall bitch to Leo the whole time. Why can’t the actress portray the character with a different tone Chances are it's not her, but the directors, the writers or show runners Constance Burge and Brad Kern. |
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Post by prudencehalliwell on Dec 21, 2019 17:39:33 GMT -5
Piper is probably the most annoying character since season 2. She has a short temper and is just an overall bitch to Leo the whole time. Why can’t the actress portray the character with a different tone Chances are it's not her, but the directors, the writers or show runners Constance Burge and Brad Kern. All very true. But a few instances of Pretty Little Liars I saw, her character did remind me of Piper especially when she was yelling at her husband once or twice. So Holly might play scenes that way too. I'd still think its all of the above. More so the writing. Because Piper has always been likeable to me when she isn't in one of her romantic plots. |
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Post by Elle Em on Dec 22, 2019 8:27:01 GMT -5
Reading everyone's points about Piper and Phoebe being with Cole and Leo, something I've noticed about Piper is that she tends to go the opposite of someone she's paired with, while Phoebe tends to mirror them. Leo was a nice guy with a good heart, and Piper got more and more impatient and unhappy as the show wore on. Cole was a conflicted soul with a tendency towards evil and secrecy, and Phoebe lied to her sisters on his behalf and was constantly fighting her own dark nature when he was around. That doesn't have a lot to do with this thread, but it was just something I've noticed.
Regarding Piper, I agree that she's better when she's not romantically involved with someone. As for Dan and Leo, I think the love triangle should have ended with her choosing neither man. Dan would have been a good match for her if she weren't a witch, but she is. He proved in his last episode that it was something he couldn't handle. And Leo obviously accepted her as a witch and understood it, but they clearly had their issues, and I don't think they would have been happy together, despite what the trip to the future in the last episode of season 8 showed us.
If Piper wanted a relationship and it was destined to happen, I wish she would have waited to find someone who could have given her everything she really needed: the normal life that Dan represented and the acceptance of who she truly was that Leo gave her.
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codebox
Familiar
Hey I'm a Charmed Veteran have been for a long time. Hope to share some insight and opinions.
Posts: 287
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Post by codebox on Dec 25, 2019 19:37:22 GMT -5
I agree with Elle Em personally. When Piper doesn't have love she's such a breath of fresh air. That's why her Season 1 self is sooo good! I also like her moments in Season 2 where the romance isn't the main focus point (i.e. Astral Monkey, Apcalyspe Not, P3 H20) It's so much the complete absence of love interesting, but not a focus on them. Even in Season 3, she was obviously going in a different direction, the comedic relief sister. Since Prue and Phoebe became the more "involved" sisters when it came to witchcraft.
Outside of Wrestling with Demons and Death Takes a Halliwell I didn't mind Piper in Season 3 because there's not a lot of chances where she has to act terrible toward Leo sans Exit Strategy. She still considered innocents (her grief over them almost losing Kate in Once Upon a Time is a good example, where she felt guilty because her selfishness in wanting Leo back got Kate in danger) and even has sympathetic moments like Coyote Piper (almost reminded me of Season 1 Piper where she feels insecure and mousy around other people.)
I think there's not enough focus of Piper's best and worst moments. I'm conflicted with her in Seasons 2 & 3, I don't dislike her, but there are many scenes where she's certainly unpleasant. But it's only when romance is involved, otherwise I don't think Piper is terrible as a character overall she just has moments. Maybe this is because her later season self is so horrid that by comparison she seems saint. But I think her better moments don't enough credit.
I mean can you really say any version of Piper is worse than Season 8 version? That version of Piper feels just evil, it seemed by that point they could care less giving Piper any moments where she wasn't bitter or hateful. It's the only time in the show I felt she was unbelievably cruel, and usually PhoeME is my least favorite.
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