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Post by Katie Warren on Feb 27, 2020 1:11:35 GMT -5
In another thread, we got discussing about Phoebe's character and how differently she could have been following Season Four. We talked about how much we wished Paige remained a social worker, and if she and Phoebe switched places, Phoebe quit her job and Paige got the promotion.
Well, it set me off thinking about Phoebe's story for the last four seasons. And I came up some fun ideas, so I decided at the suggestion of Es, to post it in the Phoebe board.
Here are my ideas for Phoebe's character in Season Five, Six and Seven:
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Feb 27, 2020 6:14:25 GMT -5
For me, season five would've been about Phoebe dealing with what happened concerning Cole season four and her part she played in that which the youngest Halliwell would own up to then plus mourning the baby she lost also.
Phoebe would either do this throughout the year or continue doing that after having left for a bit post 'Witch Way Now' finding herself somehow there.
Cole would either stay dead after 'Long Live The Queen' or leave after 'A Witch's Tail' which would be one episode, not two transferring to another law firm elsewhere realising Phoebe no longer wanted him agreeing to a divorce and wanting to prove to himself he can be good using powers he got from the Wasteland to help people that the Charmed ones might hear about on the news negating the former Source going mad then.
That year would've been the perfect time Phoebe went on sabbatical from the Bay Mirror going on a voyage of self-discovery whilst Paige took her promotion becoming a full-time social worker.
Whilst on sabbatical Phoebe rediscovers herself as a witch helping Piper with her pregnancy along the way.
Lydia the Gypsy from 'The Eyes Have It' could have also helped Phoebe through it guest starring a few times had she not died obviously getting Phoebe to understand her visions and what they meant that would prove useful to Piper's sister going forward.
Phoebe would help innocents along the way getting back to who she was seasons 1&2 not meeting any men along the way a la Jason then.
At the end of season finale Phoebe quits the Bay Mirror deciding to go back to college finishing her psychology master's degree before thinking what she'll do with that afterwards of course which is what her journey season 6 is partly about.
Phoebe juggles college and helping Piper with Wyatt then trying to find out who might be after her nephew along the way.
She has no men like the previous year being focused on what she's doing.
Phoebe still gets empathy but the ability is emotion-based only meaning she can't deflect any powers back which helps her more in her course and with what's going on concerning Piper and Leo's marriage.
Job wise Phoebe would have to do part-time once a week when she's not in college to help out financially until she passes her degree whatever she does then.
The vision quest with The Shamen would-be different with her helping Phoebe see what she'd be like futurewise after getting her degree and the outcome of that which would reignite the youngest Halliwell's desire to complete her course which's gone slightly due to Phoebe focusing on who might be after Wyatt obviously.
If Phoebe did lose her powers which I'm not sure whether she would or not that would be for abusing her premonitions trying to find out who was after Wyatt and not any baby quest thing.
After Gideon's betrayal, Phoebe's somewhat lost slightly till she meets Drake whom I would have reoccurred throughout season seven instead of Lesley early on helping Phoebe come back getting her to become a guidance counsellor in magic school which she takes on after Leo runs that for a bit post giving up his powers prior being where her and Drake interact quite a bit.
Phoebe's journey with him starts after Drake's just made the deal with the Sorcerer till he dies at the end with Cole having not sent the Mercury demon to help her find love again.
Her and Drake-like Kyle are reluctant accepting the Avatars deal suspecting something suspicious might be up investigating what that maybe along the way which gets nulled by the supernatural beings before she can tell Piper and Paige having them paranoid saying the spell altering reality.
Leo and Drake get Phoebe to remember the losses in the Attic before her, Piper, and Paige confront the Avatars subsequently.
Drake dies leaving Phoebe pregnant which forms part of the Halliwell's storyline season 8 as well as her furthered career and part in Billie and Christie's storyline.
The final year Phoebe meets Billie who inadvertently becomes Paige's charge whom both help out concerning her sister Christy.
Phoebe now works as a counsellor and not in Magic School which's overtaken by demons and then the Triad whilst going through her pregnancy.
Identifying with Christy she wants to help the girl get back into human society not knowing the full extent without her empathic ability.
Finding out the truth, Phoebe tries to steer Christy away from the Triad but battles her and Billie ultimately when she, Piper, and Paige have no choice to then.
Post alternate battle Phoebe either still works as a counsellor or then runs her own practice whilst raising Ladybug her daughter.
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codebox
Familiar
Hey I'm a Charmed Veteran have been for a long time. Hope to share some insight and opinions.
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Post by codebox on Feb 27, 2020 8:36:51 GMT -5
Firstly remove the Advice Column job, it was easily the worst thing to happen to this character, even more than Cole. This didn't really serve much of a purpose in the show other than for Kern to showcase how "awesome" Alyssa/Phoebe is. As almost every scene amounted to just talking about how great Phoebe's advice is or how good advice she's getting despite her own love life being crappy and being incapable of going through the own advice she givens to even a complete lack of understanding of it, that it when it wasn't an excuse to just have get fall for every man that walked through her office door. just so she could eventually open her legs.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to Phoebe having a job, but this was certainly not the way to go! What I loved about jobs like Prue's work at Bucklands/415 studio and Paige's social worker job was that magical related stuff happens within the plots. With Bucklands you literally had Rex and Hannah as two warlocks who wanted to kill them and steal their powers, or it served as a way to have magical artifacts be sent the way it felt naturally interwoven within the magic of the week plot (Urn, Tuatha's Wand, Painting, Locket at the top of my head) that is when we were just seeing Prue go about her normal job in the process. Even her 415 Photography job served the same purpose, like the magical monkeys and Maggie Murphy for instance.
Even Paige's Social Worker job had a couple of innocent related plots like Tyler from Lost and Bound or when she helped Carolyn in Charmed and Dangerous, not to mention when she used the Book of Shadows in Hell Hath No Fury. And while Piper's job at Quake didn't have much magical wise you were just experiencing Piper just going about her normal life. Plus P3 became integral to the show.
With Phoebe's job it was completely disconnected from anything plot related in the show and felt like huge filler to stretch out time, what really happens outside of Phoebe needing to write a paper or hit on any hot guy that works through the door? On top of that I hate how her advice column job was just an excuse to have Phoebe be more self centered than normal, as she blow off helping even in life threatening situations just so she could go to work on her column. Season 7 was especially bad with this!
Almost every scene she had was just about how she needed to work or how awesome her work was. It pretty much defined her character (Piper and Leo are possessed by Hindu Gods? Nah I'm going to work.. We've been evicted from our home by demons and one of my sisters has gone missing? Eh I'll need to focus on this column deadline, Oh my sisters need my help? Got to do my column first) it also doesn't help with how Phoebe was just handed the job and within the next episode is consumed with her work as if it's a life source. Sure there's needing to work, then there's lounging in it at the expense of everything around you.
How I'd write around this is having Phoebe spend a season doing temp jobs as a way to finding her identity. With her freespirted side also bonding over Paige in their love of witchcraft, or if they wanted to go with the work route, having Phoebe deal with a sense of self reflection, she could easily have trauma over dealing with the Cole situation only instead of it do it in a way that feels natural and not because Kern wanted PhoeMe to do no wrong.
Maybe she feels responsible over choosing to be queen of the underworld, and is using work as a form of coping with regret, spending over time etc. Only this time Cole stays dead in Long Live the Queen, Phoebe's arc in Season 5 could've been one about wrong choices and reaffirming who she is, she could also build trust and bond with her sisters, while Season 6 she attempts old temp jobs as a way to go back to her older roots, but giving her something new to work with, especially since she has Paige both of which could easily bond over their love of magic.
Also don't make Phoebe's arc about love, considering love was NEVER about her character Pre-Cole.. With Empathy have it appear because she wants to understand people better after wanting to take a job with her psychology degree, Phoebe's arc could also be spent understanding people and creatures with empathy and using it as inspiration for her career as a psychologist, this could lead to her being a psychologist with Elise serving to hire her for her understanding of people. This way it feels like she has earned empathy by connecting with people/creatures and not just so she can complain about everything or inflate her ego. Having this empathy power could've been a way to say "Phoebe's good with people" like when she connected with innocents in Seasons 1-2, having empathy give her a new revelation about people.
When it comes to love, have Drake being her only love interest. He shows up to help Phoebe find her identity after having trouble with say a vision quest or something, only to have the same connection as the Season 2 cupid with his own Drake-Like charm thrown into the mix, she can also use this to have a family or lover without it feeling like that's all she wants.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Feb 27, 2020 16:13:08 GMT -5
There's some very good ideas here at the moment.
Can't wait to see what other people have written.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
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Post by Esmeralda on Feb 27, 2020 21:52:13 GMT -5
Just like when you posted this in Paige's board, I *really* love your ideas, Katie! Add them to some of Codebox's and you really come up with a fantastic alternate-universe plotline for what should've happened with Phoebe. I really hope you decide to write the fanfic!
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Post by Katie Warren on Feb 28, 2020 7:21:37 GMT -5
Just like when you posted this in Paige's board, I *really* love your ideas, Katie! Add them to some of Codebox's and you really come up with a fantastic alternate-universe plotline for what should've happened with Phoebe. I really hope you decide to write the fanfic! Me too Es. It really could make a fantastic plotline for a fanfic.  |
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Post by Katie Warren on Feb 28, 2020 7:22:34 GMT -5
There's some very good ideas here at the moment. Can't wait to see what other people have written. Me too. Really curious what others will write. I'm glad mine inspired others to give it a go with writing Phoebe for the later seasons. |
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Feb 28, 2020 15:40:07 GMT -5
They were very good ideas you had Katie.
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Post by fallingsnow6136 on Feb 28, 2020 23:52:49 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of Katie's ideas but I also think Phoebe after undergoing therapy (I'm pretty sure she has PTSD) as she's shown having nightmares of Cole having her back in the Underworld as well as about their relationship so she takes a break from work to focus on herself, while helping Piper through her pregnancy. She does meet Drake in S7 and they become good friends but do not fall in love but it does restore her faith in love somewhat even if she doesn't feel ready to date yet. Her primary focus is herself to recover and fighting demons/protecting the innocent. End of S7, Coop/Cupid is sent down to her to help her find love again.
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Post by Elle Em on Mar 1, 2020 8:27:26 GMT -5
I like the ideas of Phoebe going into therapy and her and Paige switching places that others have mentioned.
If I could only change seasons 5-8 and everything up through season 4 could not be changed at all, I'd have A Witch's Tail be the last time we saw Cole. I really liked the way they resolved things at the end of the episode. It felt mature and like they both came to a mutual understanding of where they both stood, even though it hurt. I'd have Cole leave promising to do good in the world with his powers, and say that maybe they'd find their way back to each other someday if it was meant to be, and then he'd leave.
I would never have Phoebe's job get as big as it did. I'd actually have her decide to quit in the first episode of season 5, as she recognizes the irony of giving advice to others when she can barely keep her own life together as it is. There would never be billboards with her face on them up until she quit. It would just a part time job at a local paper that she quits in the first episode of the new season.
I'd have her go through a ton of emotional issues in the first few episodes, feeling guilty about what she put her family through, over how she made such bad decisions, and I'd have her mourn her lost child, recognizing that even if it displayed nothing but evil powers, that she still lost a baby. Her powers would be negatively affected, her ability to save innocents would be compromised, and she'd go back to where she was in season 1 except without her optimism for the future.
Meanwhile, I'd have Paige gratefully accept her promotion to social worker and focus more on that instead of witchcraft and certainly more than being a whitelighter, as she did later in the show. I know this thread was supposed to be just about Phoebe, but Paige and Phoebe's storylines need to be switched somewhat. I'd have Paige never be interested in pursuing magic full time and instead being a witch on the side while mainly focusing on her job.
And since we all know Piper's feelings about magic, this leaves the door open for Phoebe to begin to overcome her guilt and depression by getting back into magic herself. I'd have her go back to her role of being the main one interested in magic, as she was in seasons 1 and 2, and it slowly helps her rebuild her life. I would have her not have a job at all this season, and instead just get back into magic. Jason never makes an appearance either.
Then in season 6 she starts to think about utilizing her degree and getting a job. This could be more of a temp job thing like we originally saw with Paige. There's no vision quest in this season. She's much less depressed and has mostly worked through what happened with Cole, but she's still got a ways to go. She's more like she was in seasons 1 and 2 here, but not there entirely yet. Still no boyfriends or even an interest in having one, or in having a baby.
I'm not sure what to do for seasons 7 and 8. I'd like if Drake were present, but I'm not sure how I'd like for all that to work out. And eventually it would be good if she got a job that she enjoyed, but I'm not sure what kind of job to give her. Whatever happens, I'd like for her to return to who she was in season 1 and mostly in season 2 in terms of her maturity and happiness, having grown from the whole ordeal with Cole. I often think of seasons 5-8 Phoebe of being selfish, and ironically, I'd change them to pretty much make her focus on herself, but just in a different way than we saw originally. It would be selfishness in the sense that she'd be growing as a person, rather than just bringing attention to herself like we saw in the show.
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Post by fallingsnow6136 on Mar 1, 2020 18:10:05 GMT -5
Elle Em, I love your one the most. I personally think that Phoebe shouldn't have any boyfriends after Cole although Drake could help her find hope in love again and make her open to it but she doesn't actively pursue romance until Coop is sent down and helps her open her heart.
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Sasha
Whitelighter
Posts: 2,750
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Post by Sasha on Mar 1, 2020 19:25:22 GMT -5
Such wonderful ideas here everybody. Some can easily take bits and pieces from all you guys and write a fantastic fanfic.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Mar 1, 2020 22:14:13 GMT -5
They very well could Sasha yes.
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Post by gzv969 on Mar 2, 2020 0:00:19 GMT -5
Season 4 was good the way it was for phoebe.
Season 5, I would not have had phoebe an advice columnist for as long as she was. Since she got the job at the end of season 4, I would then have seen it as a job that brought along with it lots of leads to innocents needing supernatural help. Like every few letters she touches she would get a premonition and end up always calling her sisters and rushing off to investigate. Like with her job she had with prue in bucklands briefly. All this job would achieve is create a conflict within her on where her priorities lie, being a charmed one and helping innocents or being a columnist. And she would eventually want more and ask Elise to become a reporter where she can be in the field and interface with people directly. She ends up getting more of the supernatural stories to work on and gets to work with Daryl more. Which could be both a good and bad thing being a reporter. Plus she can control the narrative on some stories needing protection from exposure.
As for Cole. I didn’t mind him being around in season 5, as I liked some of those episodes. But “the importance of being phoebe” would be the last time we see him after he realizes phoebe won’t come back to him. So throughout the rest of the series phoebe battles with always wondering what ever happened to Cole, where did he go and what he’s up to. That way he could pop up occasionally or once in a while, like once or twice in a season, to help and save the day when the girls are almost defeated. Trying to redeem himself by doing good deeds behind the scene. Even throw in an episode where phoebe works with Cole. She needs him to help with getting a story or solve a case
Seasons 6 through 8 phoebe keeps her job as a reporter, helping her sisters with shaping the news to their advantage when she can, but at the same time, with her empathy powers growing, she looks for ways to utilize it better so she goes to school and studies to get a degree in psychology, focusing on forensic psychology, and is able to eventually transition to get a job working on in law enforcement and on crime scenes and help Daryl with most of the supernatural cases.
Phoebe motto will always be “the charmed ones come first” and would always be focused on helping her sisters and any cases she gets through work involving the supernatural and saving innocents.
Phoebe would still date a lot but she would be very picky of that person. Her past relationship with Cole will heavily impact her choices. They have to first believe to some level in the supernatural first. In fact her sisters would know her for often taking the shock value approach when she can’t tell where a guy stands on the matter. She would perform something magical in front of him and see how they react. Like she did with Dex in season 8
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 4, 2020 9:02:02 GMT -5
Having read these and loving them, I decided to pull an Es and do what I've done in other "what could've been/should've been" threads - I've had fun combining some of the ideas into one possibility, including my own favorite ending for Phoebe:
So? Don't you wish S5-8 Phoebe had been something like that? I sure do!
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Post by Elle Em on Mar 4, 2020 17:04:28 GMT -5
Having read these and loving them, I decided to pull an Es and do what I've done in other "what could've been/should've been" threads - I've had fun combining some of the ideas into one possibility, including my own favorite ending for Phoebe: I like this idea. Henry was the closest we saw to this that I can remember. Every other non-magical guy they were with freaked out over magic as soon as they learned about it. I'm not counting Kyle here since he was already so heavily invested in it and seems like he had known about it for a long time. But the idea of a partner who is non-magical yet loves magic when he learns about it is a really fun idea. I can understand why so many people, men and women alike, would have been scared of magic. I too probably would be afraid of it. But in the whole wide world of people, there's got to be some out there who would react the way they would if they had learned about magic as kids: with true excitement instead of fear. It would be wonderful for Phoebe to find someone like this. |
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Post by fallingsnow6136 on Mar 4, 2020 19:32:42 GMT -5
The only thing I don't agree with is not having kids. I like the idea of all the Charmed Ones getting married and having kids, mainly because it made sense for when the show was set. Plus, I like the idea of Jason, Dex, Leslie not really being involved at all and her only real relationship after Cole being with Coop with whom she has children with as well.
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Post by prudencehalliwell on Mar 4, 2020 20:20:29 GMT -5
The only thing I don't agree with is not having kids. I like the idea of all the Charmed Ones getting married and having kids, mainly because it made sense for when the show was set. Plus, I like the idea of Jason, Dex, Leslie not really being involved at all and her only real relationship after Cole being with Coop with whom she has children with as well. You're a big Phoebe/Coop fan and they are your couple. I didn't mind them in the comics but not in Season 8. I have to disagree with them all getting married with children in the end. That's just not my ideal ending. It's not a true representation of the real world. Not everyone wants children or get married. That was setting an example that you are not fulfilled in life unless you get married or have children. But we all watch and like Charmed for different reasons. |
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Post by prudencehalliwell on Mar 4, 2020 20:24:49 GMT -5
Having read these and loving them, I decided to pull an Es and do what I've done in other "what could've been/should've been" threads - I've had fun combining some of the ideas into one possibility, including my own favorite ending for Phoebe: I like this idea. Henry was the closest we saw to this that I can remember. Every other non-magical guy they were with freaked out over magic as soon as they learned about it. I'm not counting Kyle here since he was already so heavily invested in it and seems like he had known about it for a long time. But the idea of a partner who is non-magical yet loves magic when he learns about it is a really fun idea. I can understand why so many people, men and women alike, would have been scared of magic. I too probably would be afraid of it. But in the whole wide world of people, there's got to be some out there who would react the way they would if they had learned about magic as kids: with true excitement instead of fear. It would be wonderful for Phoebe to find someone like this. Me too. Es fantastic job combining everyone's ideas. I agree. That would be such a good ending for Phoebe in the end. And I agree with everyone you said Elle Em. I'm loving this thread. So much fun with all the ideas peoole are doing. |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 4, 2020 23:42:11 GMT -5
Thanks, guys! My idea for my ending for Phoebe is based on Rebecca from the show "Charmed" She always wanted to marry a rich man, a bit like Canon Phoebe always having a fantasy man. Rebecca ended up with a poor plumber and couldn't be happier. So having Phoebe end up with a non-magical man just seems like a perfect fit to me - and I much prefer the idea of her as auntie to her sisters' kids than her having any. That might be because that's my own role in my family (only one of six kids not married and only one who doesn't have kids), but I see it as the best way for Phoebe to remain Phoebs. The only things I missed in my combo was Codebox's ideas on empathy and what job I'd want Phoebe to eventually get. I wouldn't want Phoebe to have empathy (it just made her even more of a PhoeME than she was before) until S8 and then only if it was like what Codebox said. I also like his idea for her job: Also don't make Phoebe's arc about love, considering love was NEVER about her character Pre-Cole.. With Empathy have it appear because she wants to understand people better after wanting to take a job with her psychology degree, Phoebe's arc could also be spent understanding people and creatures with empathy and using it as inspiration for her career as a psychologist, this could lead to her being a psychologist with Elise serving to hire her for her understanding of people. This way it feels like she has earned empathy by connecting with people/creatures and not just so she can complain about everything or inflate her ego. Having this empathy power could've been a way to say "Phoebe's good with people" like when she connected with innocents in Seasons 1-2, having empathy give her a new revelation about people. |
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