Phoebe's Premonition Count

[openspacesp3]

Anybody know the amount of premonitions Phoebe receives throughout all eight seasons? Or how they impacted in any way?

[codebox]

Well it's been a while and I'm not sure if my Math is fully complete, but the rough estimate I was able to conclude was this

Season 1: 33 (25 w/o repeats)
Season 2: 15
Season 3: 9
Season 4: 9
Season 5: 8
Season 6: 3 (Yeah I'm not kidding)
Season 7: 5
Season 8: 3

Seasons 1-2 contain Phoebe's highest premonition count, it's worth noting a few in Season 1 are repeats so I don't count ones after the initial one. But yes, after what I've been saying this entire time once Cole came into the picture her premonition count drops steadily. I mean she went from having a premonition almost the whole season (Season 1) or half of the Season (Season 2) to barely cracking half of a season (Seasons 3-5) to so miniscule it doesn't even reach above a 5 episode count (Seasons 6-8) and that's not even counting how many of them actually involve helping people. With exceptions like Stynx Feet Under or Kyra the Seer. Her only premonitions in Season 8 revolve entirely around herself or something not really involved with innocents.  

Season 6 it suffers because they wanted to focus on her empathy power, in Season 7 she's more obsessed with work or bashing men, and in Season 6 just wants a baby daddy.

[Melinda Halliwell]

Just shows you how little Phoebe's original power meant during the latter seasons despite it said being the most converted.

[ryang]

I counted differently in Seasons 2-6
Season 2: 14
Season 3: 13 (not counting the vision from the officer's button; 2 were mentioned in All Hell Breaks Lose and Wrestling with Demons)
Season 4: 10
Season 5: 12 (3 we didn't see in Lucky Charmed and Oh My Goddess)
Season 6: 5 (counting 2 we did not see in Crimes and Witch demeanors)

The point remains the same, though. And Seasons 2-5 seem to be pretty steady, though season 5 had two "premonition episdodes" so they weren't spread out like the other seasons.

[forbuss]

I didn't think Phoebe ever "officially" given her powers back after they were taken away in S6. I think those were just sort of random ones that they really needed.

[Melinda Halliwell]

She did get her premonition power back in season seven's 'Styx Feet Under' but the other two returned in the comics of course.

[ryang]

I read that in a script from a season 8 episode Phoebe mentions that she still hasn't earned levitation back but the line was cut in the final episode. I think it was in Mr. and Mrs. Witch when Billy gets her new power.

[Aaeiyn]

By "premonition" do we mean with actual visuals? Non-visuals (like in S1E4 "Dead Man Dating", when she's "the Amazing Phoebe")? Interactive (via APing in her Premonitions)? Non-interactive (no APing, at all)? B&W (like most of S1-S4) vs In Color (like most of S5-S8)? Real vs Fake (like the one Rex gave to Phoebe, in S1E10 "Wicca Envy")?  Future vs Past?  Dreams vs Non-Dreams?

I'll have to find another day to break all of this down but just wanted to point all of that out

[Aaeiyn]

S1 "Future" Premonitions with Visuals
S1E1 "Something Wicca This Way Comes"
- Phoebe gets a premonition about two Roller Bladers who could potentially get hurt by a car.
It's debatable if her second premonition of Jeremy being a "past", "present" or "future" premonition, but I'll describe it, just in case.

S1E2 "I've Got You Under My Skin"
- Phoebe gets a premonition about a guy approaching her and asking her for a drink.
- Phoebe gets a premonition about the winning lottery numbers.
- Phoebe gets a premonition about Javna capturing her and stealing her youth.

S1E3 "Thank You, for Not Morphing"
- Phoebe gets a premonition about her father "stealing" the BOS.
- Phoebe gets a premonition about her neighbor being shapeshifted to look like her father, to "steal" the BOS.

S1E4 "Dead Man Dating"
- Phoebe gets a premonition of a man getting run over by a pink cadellac.
- Phoebe gets a premonition of Wong being alive and loading his gun.
- Phoebe gets a premonition of Wong getting up from his chair.

S1E5 "Dream Sorcerer"
First episode where Phoebe doesn't get a premonition.

S1E6 "The Wedding from Hell"
First episode to have some color, in Phoebe's premonitions, in S1.
- Phoebe gets a premonition about a demon baby (which is in red coloring) being born.

S1E7 "The Fourth Sister"
Second episode to have some color, in Phoebe's premonitons, in S1.
- Phoebe gets a premonition of Aviva throwing a fireball (which is in orange coloring) at Prue.

S1E8 "The Truth is Out There...and it Hurts"
Last episode to have some color, in Phoebe's premonitions, in S1.
- Phoebe gets a premonition of Tanya's forehead being beamed (which is in blue coloring).
- Phoebe gets a premonition of Tanya holding her baby (no tint of coloring)

S1E9 "The Witch is Back"
- Phoebe gets a premonition of Matthew Tate "reuniting" with Melinda and grabbing her by the throat, just before her power gets copied by Matthew.

S1E10 "Wicca Envy"
While Phoebe does have a "premonition", here, it's a "fake" premonition, set-up by Rex.

S1E11 "Feats of Clay"
- Phoebe gets a premonition of her and Clay "rekindling".
- Phoebe gets a premonition of Clay being face to face with a snake/cobra.

S1E12 "The Wendigo"
- Phoebe gets a premonition of Agent Fallon, turning into a Wendigo and attempting to attack Andy.

S1E13 "From Fear to Eternity"
- Phoebe gets a premonition of Prue drowning in the shower.

S1E14 "Secrets & Guys"
This is the second episode where Phoebe doesn't get a premonition.

S1E15 "Is There a Woogy, in the House?"
Phoebe only has past premonitions, in this episode.

S1E16 "Which Prue is it, Anyway?"
- Phoebe gets a premonition of Gabriel stabbing Prue with a sword.
- Phoebe gets a premonition of Gabriel crashing through the windows, of the Manor, to get to Prue.

S1E17 "That 70s Episode"
"Adult" Phoebe doesn't get a premonition, in this episode. This will be the third episode that Phoebe doesn't get a premonition, at all.

S1E18 "When Bad Warlocks Go Good"
- Phoebe gets a premonition of Brendan being attacked by his brothers, in the church.

S1E19 "Out of Sight"
Phoebe only has a past premonition, in this episode.

S1E20 "The Power of Two"
- Phoebe has a premonition of Piper missing her flight.
- Phoebe has a premonition of an elderly women being attacked by Jackson Ward.

S1E21 "Love Hurts"
Phoebe, herself, doesn't get premonitions, as her powers were swapped with Prue. Prue does receive 2 "future" premonitions with visuals, though, if you want to count that.

S1E22 "Deja Vu all Over, Again"
- Phoebe receives a premonition of Andy's death.

---

S1 "Future" Premonition w/ Visuals Count: 23 (by my rules of being purely "future" with visuals, not "fake", "adult" Phoebe herself and not some other timeline Phoebe like S1E17 nor transferred with S1E9 being the exception 'cause Phoebe still saw it unlike S1E21)

[Aaeiyn]

I put together a video of every visual premonition (whether it's from Phoebe or not) the show displayed. Whether it's a repeat or not is irrelevant. There's a total of 101 visual premonitions across S1-S8, of the show, and Phoebe (herself) makes up about 88% (88.5/101) of the visual premonitions seen in the show. The other 12.5/101 are from other people that are NOT Phoebe either to have been stolen or "borrowed", for the time being.



S7E11 "Ordinary Witches" Ronny holds the highest visual premonition count, in one single episode. Yes, this puts Phoebe to shame. Not even S1E4 "Dead Man Dating" surpasses Ronny. If we were actually shown the two verbal premonitions as visual ones, then S1E4 "Dead Man Dating" would've surpassed Ronny's visual premonition count. Alas, S1E4 "Dead Mean Dating" is short a visual premonition or two.

EDIT: The reason for the ".5" is because one of the S3E14 "The Good, the Bad & the Cursed" visual premonitions is shared between BOTH Phoebe AND Bo!

[Aaeiyn]

There's one more visual premonition I'm missing (that IK of) and that's s4e19 "we're off to see the wizard". I'll have to re-rsit the video, at a later time. Just wanted to mention that.

[Aaeiyn]

I updated the Visual Premonition video to include BOTH the Unaired Pilot AND the missing S4E19 "We're off to See the Wizard" Premonition. Also, I moved Prue having premonitions, to the correct position whereas it was placed, incorrectly, in the consecutive order, last time.

[forbuss]

Thanks for doing this! Definitely cook reading/watching the count.

Phoebe's premonitions in the early days were so great. Her premonitions were so important and I think fans genuinely enjoyed waiting to see her have one.

It would have been cool if they could have used her premonition's in the later seasons like they did the early ones and have them tie into the plot.

[Aaeiyn]

May 16, 2023 7:09:47 GMT -5 forbuss said:

Thanks for doing this!

OFC!

I figured it was important to include those who either "stole"/"borrowed" her power, as well via Matthew Tate, Prue, Cryto, etc.

There are still "missing premonitions", that I did not display, in the video due to them NOT having visuals alongside with them. For example,

S1E0 "Unaired Pilot"
- She verbalizes seeing Jeremy is still alive.  No visual compared to the aired version.

S1E4 "Dead Man Dating"
- She verbalized seeing the hotel manager on a dinner date with his non-wife, before his wife shows up.
- She verbalized the woman's weight watcher meeting and expressed that she had gained some weight.

S2E11 "Reckless Abandon"
(may be a "false" premonition due to Darryl's commentary)
- She verbalized Darryl having sausage, for breakfast.

S5E17 "Lucky Charmed"
- She tells Piper that her date is a demon who "devours" his victims, and that she's next.
- She recalls how the leprechauns call for a rainbow, using the shillelagh.

S5E22 "Oh My Goddess, Pt 1"
- She tells Paige that she saw the Titans escaping their entombment.

---

Then there's the premonitions, even without visuals, we don't even see the motions, for them like in S1E4 "Dead Man Dating", S5E17 "Lucky Charmed", S5E22 "Oh My Goddess, Pt 1", etc. These were "off-screen".

S3E12 "Wrestling with Demons"
- Supposedly, Phoebe had a premonition about a man, who was featured on the front of the newspaper (similar to Andy, in S1E22 "Deja Vu, all Over, Again), being killed by a demon.

-S3E22 "All Hell Breaks Loose"
- She explains that her and sisters "kicked butt" against Shax, and that Dr. Griffiths was their innocent to save.

Those are all the premonitions I can think of.

[forbuss]

It would have been cool for them to be a bit more intentional about Phoebe *NOT* getting premonitions in the later seasons. Perhaps they could have explained this as an advancement of her premonition power - maybe she didn't need to get premonitions anymore because her power worked more like the Seer (S4 or Kyra) where she could just sense/know things.

We saw this a bit in "Ordinary Witches" when Ronny/Phoebe were getting attacked by the demon and Phoebe told him if he concentrated he could sense the next fireball. However, they really didn't actively explain this advancement of her power ever.

[Aaeiyn]

May 16, 2023 8:48:56 GMT -5 forbuss said:

It would have been cool for them to be a bit more intentional about Phoebe *NOT* getting premonitions in the later seasons.

I can tell the "out of universe" reason is the special effects team "got better" with their graphics. While, S2 still had premonitions, it wasn't as intense as S1. A lot of the focus went towards Prue's AP effects, along with Leo's orbing ability.

Then, in S3, Cole took up more of the "newer" designs. And, OFC, by S4, Paige took up more of the graphics work, and Piper took over with the explosions. That Phoebe's premonitions just aren't "flashy enough", compared to everyone else's powers.

May 16, 2023 8:48:56 GMT -5 forbuss said:

Perhaps they could have explained this as an advancement of her premonition power

I thought the concept of her S8E1 "Still Charmed & Kicking" premonition being a premonition for the event that happened in S8E5 "Rewitched" was an interesting "advancement". That her premonitions can give the audience a glimpse of future episodes to come.

Sure, S7E10 "Witchness Protection" gave us a Phoebe on par with the likes of the Oracle, the Seer, Kyra, etc., where Phoebe can look beyond just "that day" but more of "WAY in the future". I just wished we would have more S8E1 "Still Charmed & Kicking" type of premonitions, where we can get a glimpse of "future episodes".

May 16, 2023 8:48:56 GMT -5 forbuss said:

maybe she didn't need to get premonitions anymore because her power worked more like the Seer (S4 or Kyra) where she could just sense/know things.

We saw this a bit in "Ordinary Witches" when Ronny/Phoebe were getting attacked by the demon and Phoebe told him if he concentrated he could sense the next fireball. However, they really didn't actively explain this advancement of her power ever.

I always felt like this was her "empathy" power (which, I believe was "the first" power to "come back"). Like in S6E7 "Soul Survivor", when she "senses" fireballs being thrown at her, and she "empathizes" them back.

Similar "empathy" instances like S7E1 "A Call to Arms", when she's behaving similarly like she did with Jason, back in S6E2 "Valhalley of the Dolls, Pt 2". And, in S8E3 "Run, Piper, Run", she already knows what Dex is going to ask and responds rapidly. Just like how Jason tells her, in S6E9 "Little Monsters", that he wants to be able to say what he wants to say without being interrupted.

That's how I look at it, anyway.

[forbuss]

May 16, 2023 10:44:16 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

May 16, 2023 8:48:56 GMT -5 forbuss said:

It would have been cool for them to be a bit more intentional about Phoebe *NOT* getting premonitions in the later seasons.

I can tell the "out of universe" reason is the special effects team "got better" with their graphics. While, S2 still had premonitions, it wasn't as intense as S1. A lot of the focus went towards Prue's AP effects, along with Leo's orbing ability.

Then, in S3, Cole took up more of the "newer" designs. And, OFC, by S4, Paige took up more of the graphics work, and Piper took over with the explosions. That Phoebe's premonitions just aren't "flashy enough", compared to everyone else's powers.

May 16, 2023 8:48:56 GMT -5 forbuss said:

Perhaps they could have explained this as an advancement of her premonition power

I thought the concept of her S8E1 "Still Charmed & Kicking" premonition being a premonition for the event that happened in S8E5 "Rewitched" was an interesting "advancement". That her premonitions can give the audience a glimpse of future episodes to come.

Sure, S7E10 "Witchness Protection" gave us a Phoebe on par with the likes of the Oracle, the Seer, Kyra, etc., where Phoebe can look beyond just "that day" but more of "WAY in the future". I just wished we would have more S8E1 "Still Charmed & Kicking" type of premonitions, where we can get a glimpse of "future episodes".

May 16, 2023 8:48:56 GMT -5 forbuss said:

maybe she didn't need to get premonitions anymore because her power worked more like the Seer (S4 or Kyra) where she could just sense/know things.

We saw this a bit in "Ordinary Witches" when Ronny/Phoebe were getting attacked by the demon and Phoebe told him if he concentrated he could sense the next fireball. However, they really didn't actively explain this advancement of her power ever.

I always felt like this was her "empathy" power (which, I believe was "the first" power to "come back"). Like in S6E7 "Soul Survivor", when she "senses" fireballs being thrown at her, and she "empathizes" them back.

Similar "empathy" instances like S7E1 "A Call to Arms", when she's behaving similarly like she did with Jason, back in S6E2 "Valhalley of the Dolls, Pt 2". And, in S8E3 "Run, Piper, Run", she already knows what Dex is going to ask and responds rapidly. Just like how Jason tells her, in S6E9 "Little Monsters", that he wants to be able to say what he wants to say without being interrupted.

That's how I look at it, anyway.

I don't think she had her empathy back until after the show ended in the comics - but Ronny could have accessed them if they were dormant in her.

I think that the show did sometimes confuse the two in practice since they both involve "psychic" abilities.

[Aaeiyn]

May 16, 2023 11:15:04 GMT -5 forbuss said:

I think that the show did sometimes confuse the two in practice since they both involve "psychic" abilities.

Agree.

I still like to think it was her "baby form" of "Empathy". She just couldn't tap into "firing back".

It's another reason why I like S6. It's the ONLY season that EXPLICITLY states her Empathy power, and I like the way it was used in S6E14 "The Legend of Sleepy Halliwell" to expose Zachary.

[Aaeiyn]

May 16, 2023 8:06:51 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

There are still "missing premonitions", that I did not display, in the video due to them NOT having visuals alongside with them. For example,

S1E0 "Unaired Pilot"
- She verbalizes seeing Jeremy is still alive.  No visual compared to the aired version.

S1E4 "Dead Man Dating"
- She verbalized seeing the hotel manager on a dinner date with his non-wife, before his wife shows up.
- She verbalized the woman's weight watcher meeting and expressed that she had gained some weight.

S2E11 "Reckless Abandon"
(may be a "false" premonition due to Darryl's commentary)
- She verbalized Darryl having sausage, for breakfast.

S5E17 "Lucky Charmed"
- She tells Piper that her date is a demon who "devours" his victims, and that she's next.
- She recalls how the leprechauns call for a rainbow, using the shillelagh.

S5E22 "Oh My Goddess, Pt 1"
- She tells Paige that she saw the Titans escaping their entombment.

I forgot to mention S3E18 "Sin Francisco" when "Lust" Phoebe was "having the best premonitions of her life" of Officer Dean (allegedly). She was using his button.

[turtle64]

I would like to remind you that the reason she lost her powers was because she was using her permonitions to find her baby daddy. This had to happen at least a couple of times. At least 3 or 4 non visual visions.this also implied that with empathy she gained control over her power. Forceing visions.