What do you think of Piper being a mom?

[codebox]

Here's something interesting. One thing I have noticed is a lot of people seem to like Piper as a mom, but me personally I don't think she ever should've been. I've lways preferred Piper as just Piper, not Twice Blessed mom or Poor Pitiful Piper. Even prior when she was revealed pregnant it was constantly shown Piper wasn't ready or understanding to be a mom, and the moment she's pregnant with Wyatt in A Witch's Tail there's already a change in how she treats Leo. Particularly that scene where she rudely blows up that picture while telling Leo it was ugly. Even thoughout Phoebe and Paige constantly provided the care and understanding need to prepare for Wyatt's arrival, while all Piper did was complain how she wasn't ready or even understand anything about being a mom.


To be fair this is like this with most starting parents, even I wouldn't know the first thing about being a father if I ever had a kid. But the way Piper goes about it comes off as a clueless sitcom mother who thinks her baby's antics are "cute and funny" to even think of the ramifications. I do like the development of it, but once Wyatt is born it showcases her true negligence. Starting with the whole dragon incident in Forget Me Not.... Wyatt can summon a dragon by projecting it from TV, yet this doesn't strike Piper to simply take precautious to how Wyatt uses his magic, she's just expected to go with it because "his powers can't be bound due to destiny".. I've seen people say its to protect him from demons, or he's a toddler. Which to the latter, yeah the fact he's a toddler with so much power that he's aware of using is a problem, because he shows to be so reckless with it. Even after getting Wyatt back from the Cleaners (in a horrible and self entitled display) 4 episodes later he exposes magic again to scare off Piper's dates.


There's also when he orbs Chris away out of jealousy, summons demons because he doesn't want to go to preschool and shrinking Piper and Leo themselves. It also never made sense from a character standpoint. She always wants to be normal, yet she marries an angel and refuses her kids to be normal, despite shoving it at them all the time. She's wants to take Wyatt to a normal preschool even though his powers are getting in the way of him developing a social life, but when she's presented with a preschool specifically catered for magical children she's apprehensive because she wants him to have a normal childhood not surrounded by "freaks". She should either bind his powers so he can attend a normal preschool without the risk of exposure or let him have his powers in the magical preschool with other magical children under the supervision of people qualified to handle babies like him.
Building social interactions is important for an infant's development. Having insane magical power is not.



I always hated how back and forth she was with this. What do you guys think?

[Esmeralda]

Jun 23, 2020 23:17:43 GMT -5 codebox said:

It also never made sense from a character standpoint. She always wants to be normal, yet she marries an angel and refuses her kids to be normal, despite shoving it at them all the time. She's wants to take Wyatt to a normal preschool even though his powers are getting in the way of him developing a social life, but when she's presented with a preschool specifically catered for magical children she's apprehensive because she wants him to have a normal childhood not surrounded by "freaks". She should either bind his powers so he can attend a normal preschool without the risk of exposure or let him have his powers in the magical preschool with other magical children under the supervision of people qualified to handle babies like him.

We've discovered that the worst thing that happened to Piper was her going to the future and seeing that she had a daughter. It made her think her destiny was to be a mother when she would've been so much happier had she made P3 her only baby.

[Elle Em]

Jun 24, 2020 0:02:00 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

We've discovered that the worst thing that happened to Piper was her going to the future and seeing that she had a daughter. It made her think her destiny was to be a mother when she would've been so much happier had she made P3 her only baby.

I agree. Their trip to the future did a lot of damage. I don't blame Piper for seeing her daughter and thinking it was all meant to be, though. I don't see how she could have assumed any different. It would probably be too emotional for Piper to even consider not having a baby after speaking to her daughter in this other reality. I get that.

But I just wish it hadn't happened. Piper would have been much better off not being a mom. I could see her being a wonderful aunt to her sisters' children, if they had them. I could also see her being happy running a restaurant, or P3 if they stuck with that. I wish she had stayed single too, but that's a topic for another thread. 

[BriannaWarren2.0]

I think she was a great mother. I hated the way she was written as a clueless mother, she was material, even if it wasn't shown correctly. Wyatt was way too overpowered, I believe that if Wyatt received that much power that Piper's other children should have been given that much power. 

I don't understand why people hate the whole "marriage and children" storylines. Do I agree that the storylines should have been written better? Yes. But within saying that I don't agree with the whole "never writing marriages and children" in television shows because that within itself isn't progressing, the sisters needed to have relationships both with partners and children. 

In my perfect Charmed these would be the relationships and the amount of children I would have assigned the sisters to have: 

Prue and Cole: one daughter. 
Piper and Leo: two boys.
Phoebe and Drake: three daughters.
Paige and Henry: two girls and one boy. 

[Elle Em]

Oct 10, 2020 11:34:15 GMT -5 BriannaWarren2.0 said:

I think she was a great mother. I hated the way she was written as a clueless mother, she was material, even if it wasn't shown correctly. Wyatt was way too overpowered, I believe that if Wyatt received that much power that Piper's other children should have been given that much power. 

I don't understand why people hate the whole "marriage and children" storylines. Do I agree that the storylines should have been written better? Yes. But within saying that I don't agree with the whole "never writing marriages and children" in television shows because that within itself isn't progressing, the sisters needed to have relationships both with partners and children. 

In my perfect Charmed these would be the relationships and the amount of children I would have assigned the sisters to have: 

Prue and Cole: one daughter. 
Piper and Leo: two boys.
Phoebe and Drake: three daughters.
Paige and Henry: two girls and one boy. 

I don't necessarily hate the general idea of marriage and children storylines. I don't like the way the show handled those things, though. Even in your perfect Charmed, which I respect your ideas about, each sister has a relationship (I assume they'd be married or would stay together long term) and children.

In a show about the wild possibilities of magic, they all ended up with pretty "normal" lives in the show. No sister was childfree, for instance. No sister was ever written as being gay. 

I think it would be too different from the norm if none of the sisters had kids or were married. But having them all end up that way makes quite a statement itself. I would have preferred a nice mix of possibilities myself: one sister single with no kids, one married with no kids, one a single mother, and one married with children, for instance. 

[Aaeiyn]

Tagging greta to show the video clip of James L. Conway's recollections of making Piper pregnant. Time-stamped for your convienence:



Gonna tag Sandra , too, as we were all in, in the conversation, from the S2E9 "Ms. Hellfire" re-watch thread.

[greta]

Jul 9, 2023 16:53:01 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

Tagging greta to show the video clip of James L. Conway's recollections of making Piper pregnant. Time-stamped for your convienence:



Gonna tag Sandra , too, as we were all in, in the conversation, from the S2E9 "Ms. Hellfire" re-watch thread.

THANKS SO MUCH! 

Can't wait to watch it later this morning.

[Aaeiyn]

Jul 9, 2023 16:59:43 GMT -5 greta said:

Jul 9, 2023 16:53:01 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

Tagging greta to show the video clip of James L. Conway's recollections of making Piper pregnant. Time-stamped for your convienence:



Gonna tag Sandra , too, as we were all in, in the conversation, from the S2E9 "Ms. Hellfire" re-watch thread.

THANKS SO MUCH! 

Can't wait to watch it later this morning.

It's an 8 minute video, but I time-stamped at the 4 min and 20 sec marker of where he says it. Feel free to watch the whole thing, if you wish.

[lunchking]

Jul 9, 2023 16:53:01 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

Tagging greta to show the video clip of James L. Conway's recollections of making Piper pregnant. Time-stamped for your convienence:



Gonna tag Sandra , too, as we were all in, in the conversation, from the S2E9 "Ms. Hellfire" re-watch thread.

I watched it! I don't remember if I did on my extras on my boxset or not. LOL

What an ass they were to say that! Seriously. I'm just glad it wasn't as extreme as other show taking it out on the pregnant lady. I'm looking at you Angel.

[greta]

Jul 9, 2023 17:00:58 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

Jul 9, 2023 16:59:43 GMT -5 greta said:

THANKS SO MUCH! 

Can't wait to watch it later this morning.

It's an 8 minute video, but I time-stamped at the 4 min and 20 sec marker of where he says it. Feel free to watch the whole thing, if you wish.

Thank-you for time stamping the bits. Very interesting insights. Funny when Holly said to them they were a year too early, made me realize that could've actually happened had they left Phoebe as the first sister to have a child in S5 if her and Cole's son became a major arc with Piper having her first child in S6 when Holly became pregnant. 

[Aaeiyn]

Jul 10, 2023 5:26:17 GMT -5 greta said:

Thank-you for time stamping the bits. Very interesting insights. Funny when Holly said to them they were a year too early, made me realize that could've actually happened had they left Phoebe as the first sister to have a child in S5 if her and Cole's son became a major arc with Piper having her first child in S6 when Holly became pregnant. 

You're welcome.

And, according to James L. Conway's recollections..."this show is about 'three sexy women. Can't have one of them being pregnant!'"

[greta]

Jul 10, 2023 11:07:55 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

Jul 10, 2023 5:26:17 GMT -5 greta said:

Thank-you for time stamping the bits. Very interesting insights. Funny when Holly said to them they were a year too early, made me realize that could've actually happened had they left Phoebe as the first sister to have a child in S5 if her and Cole's son became a major arc with Piper having her first child in S6 when Holly became pregnant. 

You're welcome.

And, according to James L. Conway's recollections..."this show is about 'three sexy women. Can't have one of them being pregnant!'"

You're right. That's probably why they ditched Phoebe's pregnancy arc so fast. Can't have their sexy Alyssa pregnant. *sigh*

[Aaeiyn]

Jul 10, 2023 17:05:49 GMT -5 greta said:

You're right. That's probably why they ditched Phoebe's pregnancy arc so fast. Can't have their sexy Alyssa pregnant. *sigh*

Which, as we know, is their "sexy" star (sigh). And, I do see that, in the show via Alyssa being the "sexy" one, always (if not, most of the time). Rose & Shannen were kind of "eh", same with Holly, though she was more "reserved". But, Alyssa was definitley..."dolled up", to the max!

[West]

Jul 10, 2023 17:05:49 GMT -5 greta said:

Jul 10, 2023 11:07:55 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

You're welcome.

And, according to James L. Conway's recollections..."this show is about 'three sexy women. Can't have one of them being pregnant!'"

You're right. That's probably why they ditched Phoebe's pregnancy arc so fast. Can't have their sexy Alyssa pregnant. *sigh*

Nope can't have their draw card who they use for sex appeal to the teens being pregnant and fat. Typical of a Spelling show.

Alyssa was dolled up the most on the show.

[Melinda Halliwell]

I didn't mind Piper being a Mum because she had that caring nurturing side about her. My only gripe was when Wyatt and Chris sometimes overshadowed innocents when they needed saving in terms of Piper not doing her job that is or P3 otherwise then.

Of course, she was a sister and Mum first and foremost but when an innocent did need saving which required the P03 the few times we saw those post-season 4 and Piper wouldn't help because she couldn't leave the boys for whatever reason or P3 then that was when I didn't like her instead of getting Darryl, or Leo or Victor to look after Wyatt and Chris or have someone take over P3 whilst she wasn't there.

To have been the perfect Mum for me was about Piper balancing and maintaining her work, family and Charmed life for me constant naturally. 

The exception I do make was after Gideon's betrayal when she had a hard time going out obviously.

[zachary]

Jun 23, 2020 23:17:43 GMT -5 codebox said:

Here's something interesting. One thing I have noticed is a lot of people seem to like Piper as a mom, but me personally I don't think she ever should've been. I've lways preferred Piper as just Piper, not Twice Blessed mom or Poor Pitiful Piper. Even prior when she was revealed pregnant it was constantly shown Piper wasn't ready or understanding to be a mom, and the moment she's pregnant with Wyatt in A Witch's Tail there's already a change in how she treats Leo. Particularly that scene where she rudely blows up that picture while telling Leo it was ugly. Even thoughout Phoebe and Paige constantly provided the care and understanding need to prepare for Wyatt's arrival, while all Piper did was complain how she wasn't ready or even understand anything about being a mom.


To be fair this is like this with most starting parents, even I wouldn't know the first thing about being a father if I ever had a kid. But the way Piper goes about it comes off as a clueless sitcom mother who thinks her baby's antics are "cute and funny" to even think of the ramifications. I do like the development of it, but once Wyatt is born it showcases her true negligence. Starting with the whole dragon incident in Forget Me Not.... Wyatt can summon a dragon by projecting it from TV, yet this doesn't strike Piper to simply take precautious to how Wyatt uses his magic, she's just expected to go with it because "his powers can't be bound due to destiny".. I've seen people say its to protect him from demons, or he's a toddler. Which to the latter, yeah the fact he's a toddler with so much power that he's aware of using is a problem, because he shows to be so reckless with it. Even after getting Wyatt back from the Cleaners (in a horrible and self entitled display) 4 episodes later he exposes magic again to scare off Piper's dates.


There's also when he orbs Chris away out of jealousy, summons demons because he doesn't want to go to preschool and shrinking Piper and Leo themselves. It also never made sense from a character standpoint. She always wants to be normal, yet she marries an angel and refuses her kids to be normal, despite shoving it at them all the time. She's wants to take Wyatt to a normal preschool even though his powers are getting in the way of him developing a social life, but when she's presented with a preschool specifically catered for magical children she's apprehensive because she wants him to have a normal childhood not surrounded by "freaks". She should either bind his powers so he can attend a normal preschool without the risk of exposure or let him have his powers in the magical preschool with other magical children under the supervision of people qualified to handle babies like him.
Building social interactions is important for an infant's development. Having insane magical power is not.



I always hated how back and forth she was with this. What do you guys think?

God, I have never read something more true.

I just absolutely hate how wishy-washy the writing of her storylines were when it came to the kids, all the way from before she was pregnant, to after she had the boys-- there was always something to gripe about, and then gripe when given a solution; especially with what you said about her wanting a normal life, and that's been her spiel since S1; She even wanted to make a deal with the Source in S4, but then argued with Leo because she didn't want to bind her child's powers...

It's crucially insane that you'd yearn and fight for a normal life, and then just adhere to the magical distress and disruptions Wyatt causes. Unlike what she said, binding his powers wouldn't be like taking away his arm or leg, it'd be like taking away a loaded gun.

That all being said, it's not the idea of her being a mom that bothered me, and I don't think that she should've not been a mother, but I think that the storyline and material should've been created better, and Piper should've been given one position on how she felt about magic and raising a magical child in both, a non-magical world and a magical one; if they want her to grow and evolve into a position where she is cordial with magic, then fine, but don't be wishy washy and switch her opinions based on what the episode's side-plot calls for.

[Keeper Of Melinda's Locket]

I somewhat wish it was Phoebe who was the first to have a child, not Piper. Cole dies in S4 with Phoebe giving birth to her and Cole's baby in S5 so a part of Cole lives on through the baby, with Piper finally having a child much later on. It gives Piper more hopes and aspirations to work towards since her character feels pretty much complete by S6 with nothing really left to achieve and work towards. Piper basically has absolutely nothing to work towards as a character after S6. She should've opened up her restaurant so she has more goals and something rewarding to work towards. That could've been a nice story. She's got it all a husband and sons, now time to work on what she always wanted to do which was owning her own restaurant.

She was so wishy-washy as a character. One minute she wants a normal life. One minute she's anti-children having no powers growing up, then she loves it and appreciates growing up as one. Then she refuses to bind her son's powers. It's like "Girl make your mind up."

It felt like she only likes magic when it suits her needs. LOL

[Melinda Halliwell]

And that's what I disliked about Piper post-season 4 her life being so wishy-washy.

She cared less about innocents and only seemed to save them when she wanted or that fit into her schedule although she was a sister and Mum first and foremost.

I also disapproved when either her sons or Leo became vocal points over innocents and not shared balances in her life also.

[Elle Em]

Reading these past few posts made me think of an interesting scenario. 

Suppose Phoebe didn't lose the baby in season 4, but Cole was still vanquished. Then she goes on to give birth in season 5.

And let's say that Piper then gets pregnant around the time Phoebe gives birth, but that the whole thing with the Titans still happens and Leo leaves to be an elder. In this scenario, he would have to stay gone. 

So now we have both Phoebe and Piper each with a child, but their magical partners are gone. 

Then Phoebe still meets Drake in season 7, although I loved his character so much that it'd be great if they could figure out a way for him to stay, preferably with no magical powers.

Then in season 8 Henry is introduced. I like him and Paige together, so maybe in this scenario Henry has a partner he works with that will eventually end up with Piper. Again, someone without powers. 

This way, both Phoebe and Piper each have a child with someone they loved and who was magical and will carry on their powers and memories, but both end up in relationships with someone with no powers at all, giving some kind of balance to their lives. I think it would also be interesting if Paige and Piper ended up with two people who worked together and were friends, giving them something in common and help to bring them closer together. Maybe Henry and his partner here could be somewhat reminiscent of Darryl and Andy. 

[Ravenna]

I think Piper's wish-washy attitude towards raising a magical child should have been expected given her overall attitude towards magic, given how they regained their powers. The sisters had their powers bound at such a young age and memories of them apparently erased so up until regaining their powers they had a "normal" life. So she knows what a normal life feels like, as normal as can be anyway since I think Piper exhibited signs of having an anxiety disorder. So on the one hand there's resentment over having choices taken from her as a child in binding their powers, on the other there's understanding that Grams thought it was the best decision.

Add that to being a first time mom and the trials that come with that add in trying to decide if she should risk her children (mostly Wyatt) possibly resenting her in the future for binding powers or not. Also binding them endangers them since demons weren't going to just quit showing up.

I do think Phoebe should have been the first to have children as some have said. If the relationship between her and Cole wasn't going to work I think a child could have help focused Phoebe.