Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920 
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 15, 2023 21:13:57 GMT -5
Can someone send me the link for the second episode on Spotify?
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Post by summerreading on Dec 15, 2023 21:26:23 GMT -5
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 15, 2023 22:06:43 GMT -5
Thank you! My bad - couldn't tell which links were for the first episode and which were the ones for the second one. *off to listen* |
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Post by summerreading on Dec 15, 2023 22:19:41 GMT -5
Thank you! My bad - couldn't tell which links were for the first episode and which were the ones for the second one. *off to listen* All good, enjoy! 
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Post by Too Much Coffee on Dec 15, 2023 22:37:38 GMT -5
I finished this podcast and was completely hooked. I'm looking forward to Part Two.
It was fun to hear Shannen and Holly talk about their friendship and learn how they first met. I didn't know the story.
I'm so glad Shannen and Holly didn't end up playing Piper and Phoebe. I can't imagine how the show would've turned out this way. So who were they going to cast as Prue? Does this mean that Piper would've been the lead star if Shannen played her. And who is Dana? Does anybody know the actress's name? She was mentioned so much.
I hope Shannen reads the letter Kern sent her. It sounds very promising. Do we all think this letter was sent to Shannen around the time he was trying to convince her to come back to Charmed. We know she was asked back at least once.
I couldn't believe what I heard that Shannen and Holly had some problems during S2, and Alyssa might've caused a rift. I do wonder if it was just a misunderstanding because as far as I know, Alyssa and her Mom have no authority to refuse anybody from visiting Holly by law right?
But it sure sounds like Holly was in the middle of the tension. She was very close with Shannen while also getting close with Alyssa, so I see why they all had their issues. LOL, I haven't read Alyssa's book either "Sorry not Sorry".
Connie being forced out and Kern polishing every script all the writers wrote sounds about right.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 15, 2023 22:45:02 GMT -5
I think I'm missing pieces because I herd nothing about the letter, but I thoroughly enjoyed listening to it.
I still can't figure out how to follow wit, so I hope someone will keep posting the links - I just hope they make sure to let me know which episode the link is for.
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Post by Sandra on Dec 15, 2023 23:18:21 GMT -5
I look forward to listening to the podcast. Appreciate the links being shared above. But that will have to wait until after the holidays when my parents fly home from staying with me for the holidays.
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wiccawonder
Innocent
Currently rewatching S2-S3!
Posts: 88
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Post by wiccawonder on Dec 16, 2023 0:01:48 GMT -5
I finished this podcast and was completely hooked. I'm looking forward to Part Two. It was fun to hear Shannen and Holly talk about their friendship and learn how they first met. I didn't know the story. I'm so glad Shannen and Holly didn't end up playing Piper and Phoebe. I can't imagine how the show would've turned out this way. So who were they going to cast as Prue? Does this mean that Piper would've been the lead star if Shannen played her. And who is Dana? Does anybody know the actress's name? She was mentioned so much. I hope Shannen reads the letter Kern sent her. It sounds very promising. Do we all think this letter was sent to Shannen around the time he was trying to convince her to come back to Charmed. We know she was asked back at least once. I couldn't believe what I heard that Shannen and Holly had some problems during S2, and Alyssa might've caused a rift. I do wonder if it was just a misunderstanding because as far as I know, Alyssa and her Mom have no authority to refuse anybody from visiting Holly by law right? But it sure sounds like Holly was in the middle of the tension. She was very close with Shannen while also getting close with Alyssa, so I see why they all had their issues. LOL, I haven't read Alyssa's book either "Sorry not Sorry". Connie being forced out and Kern polishing every script all the writers wrote sounds about right. I don’t think they had anyone in mind for Prue at the time as Shannen was one of the first people to get a script. Spelling and Production Staff wanted them to read for Piper and Phoebe but they both wanted to play characters more around their current age and really try play characters more mature than younger. Shannen confirmed that she will be reading the letter from Brad Kern at some point in her podcast. I’m going to assume the letter was sent when they were asking Shannen to come back but I guess we will eventually find out sometime soon. I personally think most of the issues stemmed from misunderstandings and AM making set hell. But that is just me. The fact that Brad Kern rewrote or polished off scripts for every episode is wild and also explains why episodes are the way they are. |
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Post by Too Much Coffee on Dec 16, 2023 0:21:23 GMT -5
I finished this podcast and was completely hooked. I'm looking forward to Part Two. It was fun to hear Shannen and Holly talk about their friendship and learn how they first met. I didn't know the story. I'm so glad Shannen and Holly didn't end up playing Piper and Phoebe. I can't imagine how the show would've turned out this way. So who were they going to cast as Prue? Does this mean that Piper would've been the lead star if Shannen played her. And who is Dana? Does anybody know the actress's name? She was mentioned so much. I hope Shannen reads the letter Kern sent her. It sounds very promising. Do we all think this letter was sent to Shannen around the time he was trying to convince her to come back to Charmed. We know she was asked back at least once. I couldn't believe what I heard that Shannen and Holly had some problems during S2, and Alyssa might've caused a rift. I do wonder if it was just a misunderstanding because as far as I know, Alyssa and her Mom have no authority to refuse anybody from visiting Holly by law right? But it sure sounds like Holly was in the middle of the tension. She was very close with Shannen while also getting close with Alyssa, so I see why they all had their issues. LOL, I haven't read Alyssa's book either "Sorry not Sorry". Connie being forced out and Kern polishing every script all the writers wrote sounds about right. I don’t think they had anyone in mind for Prue at the time as Shannen was one of the first people to get a script. Spelling and Production Staff wanted them to read for Piper and Phoebe but they both wanted to play characters more around their current age and really try play characters more mature than younger. Shannen confirmed that she will be reading the letter from Brad Kern at some point in her podcast. I’m going to assume the letter was sent when they were asking Shannen to come back but I guess we will eventually find out sometime soon. I personally think most of the issues stemmed from misunderstandings and AM making set hell. But that is just me. The fact that Brad Kern rewrote or polished off scripts for every episode is wild and also explains why episodes are the way they are. Yeah, it does seem like the letter may have been sent when he asked her back. I'm really interested to know if she'll reveal what ideas he had in mind for her return. She brought that up at a con in the past briefly.
Rose also stated AM made set hell for her. So it wasn't just Shannen who was the worst one on set. But I don't think any of them were saints. All four had their good days and bad days. It can't have been easy being on set eight months a year for 12-18 hour days. Everyone is bound to get testy, even if they don't mean to do it.
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wiccawonder
Innocent
Currently rewatching S2-S3!
Posts: 88
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Post by wiccawonder on Dec 16, 2023 0:42:57 GMT -5
I don’t think they had anyone in mind for Prue at the time as Shannen was one of the first people to get a script. Spelling and Production Staff wanted them to read for Piper and Phoebe but they both wanted to play characters more around their current age and really try play characters more mature than younger. Shannen confirmed that she will be reading the letter from Brad Kern at some point in her podcast. I’m going to assume the letter was sent when they were asking Shannen to come back but I guess we will eventually find out sometime soon. I personally think most of the issues stemmed from misunderstandings and AM making set hell. But that is just me. The fact that Brad Kern rewrote or polished off scripts for every episode is wild and also explains why episodes are the way they are. Yeah, it does seem like the letter may have been sent when he asked her back. I'm really interested to know if she'll reveal what ideas he had in mind for her return. She brought that up at a con in the past briefly.
Rose also stated AM made set hell for her. So it wasn't just Shannen who was the worst one on set. But I don't think any of them were saints. All four had their good days and bad days. It can't have been easy being on set eight months a year for 12-18 hour days. Everyone is bound to get testy, even if they don't mean to do it.
I’d be very curious as to what the letter states and what the ideas were to have her come back. But I do recall Shannen saying she didn’t like the ideas or the script? While I do agree all four of the girls would have bad and good days. But what is with Shannen being the worst? Countless Guest Stars have stated how caring and professional Shannen was on set? I couldn’t imagine she was anything like Alyssa when it came to the set being like hell. I’m a little confused here? |
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Post by missjessica on Dec 16, 2023 0:53:12 GMT -5
Yeah, it does seem like the letter may have been sent when he asked her back. I'm really interested to know if she'll reveal what ideas he had in mind for her return. She brought that up at a con in the past briefly.
Rose also stated AM made set hell for her. So it wasn't just Shannen who was the worst one on set. But I don't think any of them were saints. All four had their good days and bad days. It can't have been easy being on set eight months a year for 12-18 hour days. Everyone is bound to get testy, even if they don't mean to do it.
I’d be very curious as to what the letter states and what the ideas were to have her come back. But I do recall Shannen saying she didn’t like the ideas or the script? While I do agree all four of the girls would have bad and good days. But what is with Shannen being the worst? Countless Guest Stars have stated how caring and professorial Shannen was on set? I couldn’t imagine she was anything like Alyssa when it came to the set being like hell. I’m a little confused here?
Sadly Shannen was a victim of the media painting such a bad image on her that has stuck with her so long. Shannen got this reputation for being a bi**h because she seemed to be vocal and stood up for herself on set and for her co-stars, and the male production team didn't like that. I guess Alyssa just did as she was told and never disagreed with the production team, so she never got a bad image.
I do remember so many guest stars saying really nice things about Shannen. Kevin Smith is a director who had a good working relationship with Shannen on Mall Rats.
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Post by myystery on Dec 16, 2023 1:35:14 GMT -5
The second episode is also on YouTube - for those, like me, who are not and will not be into podcasts. I liked how Shannen described Piper in Season 1 and how that matched with Holly's personality at the time. Many actors don't even get the characters they play, let alone characters of co-stars.
Do you think the Kern letter could also, alterantively, be from the 2010s when Shannen was diagnosed with cancer and Kern experienced a fall from grace of his own, refering to allegations of harrasment? I could see him making up similarities between the two then.
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wiccawonder
Innocent
Currently rewatching S2-S3!
Posts: 88
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Post by wiccawonder on Dec 16, 2023 4:04:41 GMT -5
I’d be very curious as to what the letter states and what the ideas were to have her come back. But I do recall Shannen saying she didn’t like the ideas or the script? While I do agree all four of the girls would have bad and good days. But what is with Shannen being the worst? Countless Guest Stars have stated how caring and professorial Shannen was on set? I couldn’t imagine she was anything like Alyssa when it came to the set being like hell. I’m a little confused here?
Sadly Shannen was a victim of the media painting such a bad image on her that has stuck with her so long. Shannen got this reputation for being a bi**h because she seemed to be vocal and stood up for herself on set and for her co-stars, and the male production team didn't like that. I guess Alyssa just did as she was told and never disagreed with the production team, so she never got a bad image.
I do remember so many guest stars saying really nice things about Shannen. Kevin Smith is a director who had a good working relationship with Shannen on Mall Rats.
Sadly, Shannen was given the bad girl status and sadly that has followed her throughout her entire career, which is awful. She really didn’t deserve it. Especially when she was just trying to be vocal to stand up for herself and her co-stars, how that can be seen as the worst, I have no idea? But yes! Lots of guest stars and Kevin Smith have nothing but wonderful things to say about her. So where the worst on set comes from, I have no idea? |
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Post by summerreading on Dec 16, 2023 18:02:08 GMT -5
Sadly Shannen was a victim of the media painting such a bad image on her that has stuck with her so long. Shannen got this reputation for being a bi**h because she seemed to be vocal and stood up for herself on set and for her co-stars, and the male production team didn't like that. I guess Alyssa just did as she was told and never disagreed with the production team, so she never got a bad image.
I do remember so many guest stars saying really nice things about Shannen. Kevin Smith is a director who had a good working relationship with Shannen on Mall Rats.
Sadly, Shannen was given the bad girl status and sadly that has followed her throughout her entire career, which is awful. She really didn’t deserve it. Especially when she was just trying to be vocal to stand up for herself and her co-stars, how that can be seen as the worst, I have no idea? But yes! Lots of guest stars and Kevin Smith have nothing but wonderful things to say about her. So where the worst on set comes from, I have no idea? It's sad that I don't think that image will ever leave her. The media did her that dirty, and whenever people think of Shannen and Charmed, the bad press seems to constantly be brought up. As for where the worse comes from, just butting heads with Kern, Spelling and other male producers. They have old fashioned values, where they don't like their stars telling them how to run the show. It just gave her this bad girl image. That's not to say Shannen isn't completely innocent, I'm sure she had her fair share of conflicts with the likes or Tori Spelling on 92010. Because her father was the producer, it's only natural he'd protect his daughter, and protect her, so Shannen would get the load of bad press over her. |
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rebooted
Witch
Started watching at 12
Posts: 1,803 
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Post by rebooted on Dec 17, 2023 4:13:01 GMT -5
Its show business in the 90s.
The pressures were far different than the 6-10 episodes they produce a year today.
Different time, adding different context.
I hope all 4 ladies reach a point of maturity to look back at that time and take it for what it was.
Lifes to short.
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Post by shay321 on Dec 17, 2023 9:32:49 GMT -5
Well its so sad we all wanted answers for years for this feud becauses we wanted to know what ignited the show's change and all we got is a pitty party. Im going to get through this once and then im done with all four of them and i will only seek for the company of the halliwells, they should be ashamed of themselves, I know my opionion may feel offensive but believe me i gonna be as much objective as i can and unfortunately we charmed fans wont leave this feud rest in peace we add feul to the flame so thats why they cant leave well enough alone either, so im gonna leave my perspective here before the second part of discord drops tomorrow. Friendly reminder that to me Prue Piper Phoebe and Paige have nothing to do with their actresses, they are way better characters authentic and solid compare to Shannen Holly Alyssa and Rose as it seems.
To begin with Holly Marie Combs, i found her the worst among the foursome and I wont say much about her because she doesn’t deserve the attention she gets. She began as Shannen Doherty’s friend with not even the half recognition as Shannen Doherty or Alyssa Milano so that’s why she was so silent in the beginning in order to be a brand name first. By season 3 she decided to side with Shannen Doherty and she wasn’t even able to stand by her decision to quit the job in favor of her best girlfriend because she couldn’t separate friendship from fame and survival. Its obvious from her saying she was probably had some resentment from alyssa Milano due to the gap they created. Then having already cemented her name in the business and getting paid 50.000 by season5 she decided to pass and keep a grip on herself because after charmed PLL was her only major job and after that she was done.
So that’s why she is trying till this day to stay relevant by raking up certain past events in her live. She became close with alyssa Milano by season5 and six according to their appearances together and their trips then the show ended and she remembered that shannen doherrty kinda still is a person she used to know. A statement alyssa Milano did a decade ago about being in highscool was eough to devide them and then Comiccons came to the front by 2014 trip shows and Shannen Doherty’s pre-cancer situation were enough to keep them in touch. Then Alyssa Milano started and Rose Mcgowan started posting encouraging social media stuff for shannen doherty’s health and holly marie combs’s chance to escape oblivion was the ‘’charmed legacy’’. She started having appearances with rose mcgowan and alyssa Milano separately. She is trying to make an impression by unfollowing shannen Doherty on Instagram back in 2016 and now she unfollows alyssa right before the big news came to the front, and now deviously she covers it by saying ‘’imm not talking through social media with people I know 30yrs’’ Im not questioning her say about the hospital experience but I don’t get her irresistible need to defend herself on social media so passionately. My point being: she is not to be trusted she is not stable, she goes whatever direction the wind blows she is phony and devious always for her best interest indecisive as hell she is trying to have it both ways and she is giving strong double standards energy so she is beyond gone for me and lots of other people with common sense.
To continue with Rose Mcgowan I think her anger is misplaced as far as the metoo scandal concern. Alyssa Milano was the first who openly support rose mcgowan after her coming out, She always seemed ok with sending birthday wishes to alyssa Milano and her family and now due to the elections in America years ago she went ballistic (to be honest that was the exact time she lost it forever) because she and alyssa were on opposite sides and the only way to attack her was through the show because she knew the charmed stans were and are still strong nation so to speak. Its so weird that she remembered all the bad stuff alyssa Milano has done to her during the elections between biden and Clinton so since she decided to let politics get in her way and then withdrew to mexico after the saw she couldn’t affect anyone I just don’t buy it.
Alyssa Milano seemed to have such a strong backround strong PR. She came from strong tv shows had many affairs (lets not forget her affairs with Justin brian and erik dane)and used her sex appeal from softcore movies as she said ‘’I did what I had to do to continue working on hollywood’’ so she stood by her decisions. She always seemed to be the good girl who never did anything wrong (until recently at least, yet again like holly marie combs until she validates her name in the industry) who always got the favorism from her supervisors she got some big say in the show during season5 but lets be honest, if it wasn’t her and holly marie combs to keep the show alive by being producers, charmed would’ve ended by the end of season5. And that what she took advantage of, shannen Doherty’s inappropriate behavior. This was probably enough for alyssa to behave herself and have some good impact on some of her colleagues later on like nick lachey kaley cuoco Debbie ryan and sam page and prior tony danza leah remini danny pintauro
So lets get to shannen Doherty
Shannen said in a convention how she was asked back (like how they asked back Julian for Charmed150 and he came back) but how she didn't like the script and the direction of the character. However in the audio commentary for the Charmed DVDs, Brad Kern says they were under the impression she would have had to been paid her episodic fee if even her picture was shown (I assume the iconic one of the 3 girls from the pilot that showed them coming closer together when their powers were activated was a discussion for the gallery of pictures in the finale) would have required her fee. I have watched a lot of convention videos and I've never heard Holly or even Rose or Brian talk about Shannen being offered a script. I honestly think Shannen is lying lol. She talked a big talk about Charmed being for 11 year olds and childish and went on to do reality shows. I think she was fired but she was smart enough to include a clause in her contract to be paid for her likeness to be used in the show. So that's why her image was never seen again. They even reshot the part in Cat House where Astral Prue rides off and wrecks the wedding. And you only see "Prue" from the back I remember Holly was at a panel (with Shannen) and commented that it would have been super expensive and they laughed it off.
She danced with the devil once on that show before charmed and yet she decided willingly to engage again instead of declining the offer and the ‘’drama’’ later on. So that;s fully on her. It gives second thoughts on why the charmed tea that early on the podcast
Secondly considering shannen doherty’s character I don’t believe her respect for lori rom would last a minute after lori started claiming stuff and money and being more demanding after her increasing fame, so praise an actress who is only known for almost playing the phoebe character seems like hedging her bets. As for shannen dohertry’s headstrong behavior I wont count this as a positive characteristic of someone’s personality I would like to set two examples. Imagine being just a new teacher in a local school with many elderly work experience colleagues and the principal of the school assigns the teacher a Christmas theater performance with restricted orders to give a chance to prove the teacher’s worth and the teacher starts throwing a brainstorming party every once in a while for every little detail without even having the support of the many to back up the arguments (like the hairstyle situation). Justifiably, the principal would call the teacher to order or else would release the teacher in order to keep the school in order. Imagine being given a second chance after a rough previous collaboration and you spill on it simply because in the name of your free will your vocal rights and your desire to be trailblaizer. She knew the industry, she knew the people she was dealing with, she experienced twice the consequences of her action then why not change your behavior for your own sake? And just to preempt the incidents: at that time shannen Doherty had already being accused for dui assaulting a journalist and got recorded swearing and cursing along with holly marie combs at a night out. So teaming up against alyssa mlano just to justify how passionate and perfectionist someone can be doesn’t work for me. At least come with actual facts, not reheated food.
Another question has been raised, since shannen Doherty was dealing with so much drama and got ‘’pushed aside’’ by alyssa Milano, they why being bride’s maid in her wedding and not expressing her true feelings about her?
Further more I can accuse Allyssa Milano for being immature hotheaded and frivolous for getting married at the age of 26-27 and then getting divorce after a year (a fact that nobody ever questioned or how that affected their relationship or how shannen Doherty and holly marie combs supported alyssa Milano during an extreme rough season3 where the network bodyshamed alyssa Milano for gaining pounts) but a least before dating brian Krause she got officially divorced. The very next incident was the great chemistry between alyssa Milano and Julian mcmahon that got on shannen doherty’s nerves and the provoking ‘’ I get to kiss julian’’ quote from alyssa milano’s mouth according to shannen Doherty. And since they want to play ‘’who say what’’ charmed version, this incident happened during filming power outage episode according to oufits and interviews. The new couples (brian Krause-alyssa Milano) (shannen Doherty Julian mcmahon) weren’t even a thing that early, and to think Julian mcmahon was already married yet moral restrains stopped the latter from being together . The cherry on top: to those who have seen parts from the dailies and the bloopers, I can mention two
I remember alyssa Milano saying during filming sense and sensibility at the charades scene with rose mcgowan ”do I have to do this f**k**g sh!t again’’ ( I hope she was joking)
But I strongly remember also shannen doherty in the magic hour episode correcting the brooke actress and followed by saying ‘’That’s what I said, I didn’t write it, obviously’’ This seems as if she wanted to be given the lead but never had and I understand why, but what I don’t understand is why not fight for it. The production seemed like it gave the actors more responsibilities and chances by making them directors producers and writers. Yet again if it wasn’t for Holly marie and alyssa to keep tha show sane since brad kern wasn’t even professional in the latter seasons the show would’vve ended and rose mcgowan would’ve been blamed for, for not making the audience love the paige character, like she has already stated. Also Brian Krause got to write sense and sensibility because the credited him in the titles , which proves that the network actually tried to give them a chance to prove themselves on something more than ‘’staying in the lane’’
Someone will say ‘’its not our job to judge but to appreciate the work’’ if the actor stops acting like one and starts selling the personal life for more attention the first right to judge is already given by ones part. I rest my case with situation and these women in general, at least the two out of four.I’ll keep charmed as it is and not giving them the chance to capitalize the show so they can threw even more bitterness like ‘’ohh in episode four season three shanenn and alyssa didn’t talk the entire time’’ and the then having all these toxic fans commenting under yt videos ‘’ohh I can see the tention between them’’
Charmed is important to so many and brought us together here I wont let them destroy it, the end. Blessed be
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Aaeiyn
Elder
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
Posts: 5,486
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Post by Aaeiyn on Dec 17, 2023 13:00:26 GMT -5
It's why we practice the method of separating the art from the artist, here. Even Brad Kern, the showrunner, has had his fair share of scandals, as well, yet many Charmed fans still like his episodes, such as S1E22 "Deja Vu all Over, Again", S2E1 "Witch Trial", S3E22 "All Hell Breaks Loose", etc. I actually like Holly but hate the Piper character. And, I don't like Alyssa but love the Phoebe character. With the invention of social media, it's a lot harder for celebrities to get away with what common folk can probably get away with. Such as Rose's anger, Holly unfriending people, etc. I actually think fans are the weird ones, particularly the ones that stalk their beloved celebrity pages, all the time. I would hope you wouldn't do that to the Average Joe. Celebrities are people, too. Unfortunately, too many people platform them up, like they're Gods, or something, but they're not. There's a reason why these sayings exist (they existed pre-social media, too): Separate the art from the artists. Never meet your heroes. S2E18 "Chick Flick" practically covered this, very minorly, through the Prue character with Mr. Beck. The very rude and arrogant photographer she looked up to. Your celebrities are never what they seem. It's why I've taken a break/quit most (not all) of Social Media. Too negative. A lot more positive things going on outside of it. Remember to separate the art from the artists and never meet your heroes  |
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Post by lunchking on Dec 18, 2023 2:03:01 GMT -5
It's why we practice the method of separating the art from the artist, here. Even Brad Kern, the showrunner, has had his fair share of scandals, as well, yet many Charmed fans still like his episodes, such as S1E22 "Deja Vu all Over, Again", S2E1 "Witch Trial", S3E22 "All Hell Breaks Loose", etc. I actually like Holly but hate the Piper character. And, I don't like Alyssa but love the Phoebe character. With the invention of social media, it's a lot harder for celebrities to get away with what common folk can probably get away with. Such as Rose's anger, Holly unfriending people, etc. I actually think fans are the weird ones, particularly the ones that stalk their beloved celebrity pages, all the time. I would hope you wouldn't do that to the Average Joe. Celebrities are people, too. Unfortunately, too many people platform them up, like they're Gods, or something, but they're not. There's a reason why these sayings exist (they existed pre-social media, too): Separate the art from the artists. Never meet your heroes. S2E18 "Chick Flick" practically covered this, very minorly, through the Prue character with Mr. Beck. The very rude and arrogant photographer she looked up to. Your celebrities are never what they seem. It's why I've taken a break/quit most (not all) of Social Media. Too negative. A lot more positive things going on outside of it. Remember to separate the art from the artists and never meet your heroes That's the way to do it. I don't get how people let the stars ruin the art for them. I never let that get to me. If I did I may as well throw my TV in the bin. |
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Post by lunchking on Dec 18, 2023 3:03:14 GMT -5
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Post by shay321 on Dec 18, 2023 3:22:16 GMT -5
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