Piper's daughter or not???

[The Original P3]

Jun 24, 2008 20:20:23 GMT -5 whitelightertony said:

And for the record..the name's PRUDENCE MELINDA no matter what the script says.

How can you be so sure? If we're only going by what made the final cut of the episode -- and given that the daughter's name was never mentioned -- then where's the proof that her name's "Prudence Melinda"?

Piper thought she was having a daughter when she had Wyatt. She said she was having a hard time letting go of not naming their child Prudence Melinda but for obvious reasons, they didn't. I see no reason why, if that is in fact Piper's daughter, she wouldn't have used that name like she wanted to when Wyatt was born. As a tribute to her sister and their ancestor...it only makes sense.

[K. Aabye]

If the script said her name was Melinda then it clearly isn't Prudence Melinda anymore. Piper's granddaughter (the one who closed the door to the manor) was named Prudence as a final nod to Prue. It is believed to be Melinda's daughter. If she is Melinda's daughter, then I seriously doubt that Prudence would be Melinda's name. It would become too confusing. Besides Piper could have decided to switch the names around "Melinda Prudence" that would make sense aswell.

[The Matriarch]

I'm pretty sure Kern stuck with Prudence Melinda for Piper's daughter but many people in my country go my their middle names & not their first & the first name is then usually carried on to the child one day so that could explain why the granddaughter was named Prudence.

[Assassin Witch]

Jun 25, 2008 3:14:22 GMT -5 K. Aabye said:

If the script said her name was Melinda then it clearly isn't Prudence Melinda anymore. Piper's granddaughter (the one who closed the door to the manor) was named Prudence as a final nod to Prue. It is believed to be Melinda's daughter. If she is Melinda's daughter, then I seriously doubt that Prudence would be Melinda's name. It would become too confusing. Besides Piper could have decided to switch the names around "Melinda Prudence" that would make sense aswell.

Which is weird that a granddaughter would be named after their lost sister and not one of the daughters....

And, I've heard people say she's Wyatt or Chris's daughter, but not Melinda's. *shrugs*

[spiritsas]

I love the discussion, but we now have 17 pages on who was that girl with speculation that it could be the daughter of any of Piper's children. Here's another twist. If this is some 50 years into the future, and let's (for the sake of argument) say it could be an offspring of Wyatt's (the oldest), then it's even possible it could be Wyatt's granddaughter and Piper's great granddaughter. There is no indication it's Piper's daughter's (as yet unborn in 2006 and, from the snapshots of the future, a few years younger than Chris), so it could be from Wyatt. Well Wyatt was about 3 or 4 at the time the show ended. 50 years into the future he could have married young (say in his early 20's), had a son or daughter (who also married in their early 20's), and presto, you can have a 7 to 9 year old great granddaughter. Of course, it's all purely speculation. There were a lot of kids being shown, in Magic School and such, who may not have been related to TCO.

[whitelightertony]

I see no reason why, if that is in fact Piper's daughter, she wouldn't have used that name like she wanted to when Wyatt was born. As a tribute to her sister and their ancestor...it only makes sense.

Some people have suggested that maybe Phoebe's oldest daughter was born first, and Phoebe named her daughter Prudence. So when Piper finally had a girl, she gave her daughter the first name of Melinda (so it wouldn't be confusing distinguishing between the two cousins) and the middle name of Prudence.

I personally believe that Piper simply had a change of heart, and named the daughter Melinda Prudence Halliwell...Piper could have changed her mind for any number of reasons.

[K. Aabye]

I believe that also. And that's not only because of the reasons you mentioned, whitelightertony. But because I simply know the girl we're all talking about here. I know stuff that indicates the name to be Melinda.

[ShantaD]

But because I simply know the girl we're all talking about here. I know stuff that indicates the name to be Melinda.

So now we have to personally know the actors to know all the details of their characters?

Most of us have to go by what we see on aired episodes. Which is why, it it wasn't aired, it didn't happen, doesn't exist or doesn't matter. There is no little girl named "Melinda" in the finale. That is a fact.

[vandergraafk]

As a member of an abused minority - people who are called by their middle names and only reluctantly answer to their first names - (tell that to every official document you've ever encountered!), let me just say that this really is a tempest in a teapot. Prudence Melinda it is. She is just called by her middle name.

Why? Imagine how difficult it would be for both Piper and Phoebe to have to call out Prue's name whenever rounding up the kids for baths, suppertimes, whatever. That Prue met with such a vicious death is one very compelling reason to go with Melinda, even if it is her middle name.

With this, Piper memorializes her deceased sister and acknowledges that this was her original choice (in Morality Bites). She also shields her daughter from the pain and discomfort she would surely experience when the image of her deceased aunt was constantly conjured.

Whenever anyone calls me by my first name, I cringe. Especially now that my father is deceased. It was his name; and, though I am proud that I was named after him, everything I do emanates from the name I've always been called: the middle name. So, that's why I prefer my self-chosen moniker: vandergraafk. Go figure!

[vandergraafk]

Cowering in the face of nitpickety lemony-snickety Charmed afficionados, shantaD does what she does best: hide behind canon! Really, does the prospect of debate frighten you so?

[Assassin Witch]

Jun 26, 2008 22:36:28 GMT -5 vandergraafk said:

Prudence Melinda it is. She is just called by her middle name.

I would agree with that. In some of my fics, that's how I do it. And, yes, I do have a daughter in my fics, but that does not mean I believe she had a daughter. It's convience for me to have a female character. So, I name her Prudence Melinda and she goes by Melinda.

You make a great point in why Piper (and Phoebe) would call her Melinda. I also go with the fact that Prudence is from at least the 1600s, so it's a bit out of date. So, I would think she'd want to go by Melinda in school.

[whitelightertony]

There is no little girl named "Melinda" in the finale. That is a fact.

Really? Did anyone in the episode specifically state for us, "Hey, see that little girl over there, receiving the sack lunch from Piper and Leo? -- she's NOT their daughter!"

[K. Aabye]

We all saw that little girl in the final episode. She was with Piper and Leo. If she was Phoebe's daughter, wouldn't she have been with Phoebe and Coop?

Each Charmed One had three children.

And I'm not saying everyone have to know the actresses/actors to know their characters. I never said that , stop putting words in my mouth that I did not say. I said I know stuff that indicates her name to be Melinda and not Prudence Melinda. Again, if her name was Prudence Melinda, wouldn't it had been said on the original script. "Prudence Melinda" instead of "Melinda"?

Time change. What Piper originally wanted to have named Wyatt had he been a girl, she must have decided on not doing. I don't know why, all I know is Katie played a little girl called Melinda, not Prudence Melinda.

[vandergraafk]

Is there no room for compromise here? I doubt that any evidence exists that demands we recognize Melinda as the first name. Indeed, there is plenty of other evidence, as well as logic and emotion, that suggest Melinda as the middle name.

Now, would Piper ever use the name Prudence. Surely, she would, but only if she were truly angered at Melinda. It's a sure-fire way of getting a child's attention without the hitting, screaming and whatever else parents resort to. "Prudence Melinda, give the doll back to your cousin. Just because neither of the twins has powers gives you the right to use yours at their expense."

Works for me!

[whitelightertony]

Vandergraafk, I was responding to Shanta's insistence that it's an established fact that the girl isn't named "Melinda":

There is no little girl named "Melinda" in the finale. That is a fact.

Shanta never showed any evidence to support this claim.

[ShantaD]

Shanta never showed any evidence to support this claim.

Are you kidding me? I've seen the episode three or four times. There is absolutely no scene where any child is called "Melinda". Piper named her daughter "Melinda" in "Morality Bites" not in the finale. Please tell us all where this scene is, since apparently some people have seen it. Just show us the scene where the little girl is named either "Melinda" or "Prudence Melinda".

Tell me how someone who watched the episode, but doesn't read "Charmed Magazine" or personally know the actors, would know this little girl's name. It's a television show. It's supposed to speak for itself, not require outside research to "really" know what is going on.

[vandergraafk]

I guess that's why you clamor so steadfastly to "canon". It spares you the time and pleasure a bit of research and reading have to offer. Oh well! As my Stats professor used to claim: "It's intuitively obvious to the casual observer."

[K. Aabye]

It was STILL stated in the original casting script that the girl we saw in Piper's scene was named Melinda. Even if it wasn't mentioned exclusively in the episode then she was still named Melinda. Piper also said during her narration "And Leo and I finally had our daughter" but it wasn't said either and I do not know why. Maybe the editors didn't think that some people would get into their heads that the girl in Piper's scene is actually Phoebe's and not Piper's. If there's a girl shown with Piper, it is obviously supposed to be her daughter and not Phoebe's. Phoebe's daughters were shown with Phoebe. And to your information, A LOT was cut from that episode, including other scenes with the kids.

[whitelightertony]

Are you kidding me? I've seen the episode three or four times. There is absolutely no scene where any child is called "Melinda". Piper named her daughter "Melinda" in "Morality Bites" not in the finale. Please tell us all where this scene is, since apparently some people have seen it. Just show us the scene where the little girl is named either "Melinda" or "Prudence Melinda".

Tell me how someone who watched the episode, but doesn't read "Charmed Magazine" or personally know the actors, would know this little girl's name. It's a television show. It's supposed to speak for itself, not require outside research to "really" know what is going on.

Shanta, you stated that the episode confirmed it as a "fact" that the girl is NOT Melinda.

The episode did no such thing. At most, what we see on-screen in the episode leaves it up in the air as to the girl's identity and/or actual name. But no character ever disproves the theory that she is named Melinda.

The theory that the girl is Melinda (and that was the writers' intent, based on what was implied) is due to the EVIDENCE people have deducted from.

-- the reference to Melinda Halliwell in The Book of Three: Vol. 2
-- the character reference in the actual script, as Melinda (on our board) referred
-- the fact that that, in the final version of the episode that aired, Katie only appeared on-screen with Holly, Brian, Tanner, and the boy who played Chris, and no one else from the cast
-- Kern confirming it himself in a subsequent interview

Thus, this is pretty strong evidence that the girl was intended to be Melinda, in spite of the lack of on-screen confirmation.

[vandergraafk]

Alas, whitelightertony, your comments have ended up on the cutting room floor. However cogent and succintly stated, we have edited them out of taped existence. Voilà! Canon is saved and you are no more!