Most common Charmed problems:

[Reality Bites]

It's cool. It happens. I think they're the same, just that the Shadow has some kind of mystical link to the Nexus due to "living in it" for so long.

[Esmeralda]

Except the Nexus didn't "live in it" (that's where Kern screwed up). How could it when it's a location not a thing? Lived *at* it, yes. Lived *in* it, no.

But, yes, "Woogeyman" was little Phoebe's name for Shadow that lived under the Manor, which sat in the nexus of that pentagram, because she couldn't say "Boogeyman".

And this is where I was off - been too long since I've watched S4 - I'd forgotten that Cole had taken in the Shadow. He took in the Shadow, the Woogeyman, not the Nexus. You can't take in a location. You can stand on that location, like the Manor stands on the nexus of that pentagram, but you can't take it in.

[joshingabout]

But that's assuming the Nexus is just a location with no magical representation, which it must have, as it was said to empower those who controlled it. The energy was banished in Season 7, and before then the energy had empowered both Evil (Cole and Zankou) and neutral hosts (Leo).

If the Woogy was 'the shadow', why would he empower Leo and not turn him evil?

[Esmeralda]

But it was because it was the center of the pentagram formed by the elements that made it so powerful. It was still just a location. As soon as one of those elements were removed, it would have no power.

If Evil wanted to get rid of that power, they would've gotten rid of one of the elements. But they didnt' want to do that - they wanted to control it and by being possessed by the Shadow, they would've been.

[joshingabout]

I always treated it as a convergeance point of the elements in the form of the powerful shadow: a spiritual energy of immense power (In 'Scry Hard' it is also grey, assumably to show that it's neutral - neither white or black). It'd be an entity due to the location, but an entity all the same.

If the Woogy was this neutral power, why did it turn Phoebe evil? The only logical thing I can think of is to assume that the Woogy is an evil entity, while the 'shadow' that Zankou tried to intake is the neutral power of the Nexus, which is then later destroyed by the 'how to Banish a Suxen' spell, which required the Power of Three to destroy. I think the spell would have worked on the power of the Nexus because it was a convergeance of the elements, meaning that they had already come together to create a great force - so getting rid of one of the five elemental areas later on wouldn't do anything to impede the power of the nexus, as the elements had already merged together.

Although I think we're diametrically opposed on this topic, so it might be wise to move on.

One thing that I find annoying is the use of the same terminology for more than one thing. "The Shadow" for the Woogyman/Nexus is one point, but I was watching "Scry Hard" yesterday and I found that Zankou referred to The Nexus as 'The Ultimate Power'...

The Hollow - called the Ultimate Power by The Source
The Nexus - called the Ultimate Power by Zankou
(arguably) The Jenkins - called the Ultimate Power by The Triad (although I don't believe this, as I think they refer to The Hollow, but many people disagree).

I know many peoples fingers will be pointed at Kern, but there are multiple writers on the show.

[Reality Bites]

Jun 10, 2011 3:26:25 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Except the Nexus didn't "live in it" (that's where Kern screwed up). How could it when it's a location not a thing? Lived *at* it, yes. Lived *in* it, no.

But, yes, "Woogeyman" was little Phoebe's name for Shadow that lived under the Manor, which sat in the nexus of that pentagram, because she couldn't say "Boogeyman".

And this is where I was off - been too long since I've watched S4 - I'd forgotten that Cole had taken in the Shadow. He took in the Shadow, the Woogeyman, not the Nexus. You can't take in a location. You can stand on that location, like the Manor stands on the nexus of that pentagram, but you can't take it in.

You're confusing what I'm saying Es. If you follow the previous posts, I was saying The Shadow and The Woogy are the same, not that the Nexus and the Woogy are the same.

Also, I do believe the Shadow/Woogy resided within The Nexus' energy field, and formed some sort of mystical connection to it.

[Chrisaholic]

If I remember correctly the Nexus can be both, good or evil, depending on who lives in the Manor what was built above it. How can it then be that the Shadow/Woogey has its own "life" when these two are connected as you said. I don't understand.

[joshingabout]

What I'm saying is that the Woogy/Shadow shouldn't have been evil when it possessed Phoebe, as good magic was in control of the house. Therefore it couldn't have been the Nexus that possessed her, but something more sinister like a demon.

[Esmeralda]

Jun 10, 2011 19:53:36 GMT -5 Reality Bites said:

Jun 10, 2011 3:26:25 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Except the Nexus didn't "live in it" (that's where Kern screwed up). How could it when it's a location not a thing? Lived *at* it, yes. Lived *in* it, no.

But, yes, "Woogeyman" was little Phoebe's name for Shadow that lived under the Manor, which sat in the nexus of that pentagram, because she couldn't say "Boogeyman".

And this is where I was off - been too long since I've watched S4 - I'd forgotten that Cole had taken in the Shadow. He took in the Shadow, the Woogeyman, not the Nexus. You can't take in a location. You can stand on that location, like the Manor stands on the nexus of that pentagram, but you can't take it in.

You're confusing what I'm saying Es. If you follow the previous posts, I was saying The Shadow and The Woogy are the same, not that the Nexus and the Woogy are the same.

Also, I do believe the Shadow/Woogy resided within The Nexus' energy field, and formed some sort of mystical connection to it.

You're treating The Nexus as a thing again, like Kern did, which it isn't.

BUT, OH! I see what you mean. You're saying that thre could be an energy field in that center area of the triquetra, an energy field called The Nexus. OH! If you mean that, then that would be a thing, a thing that the Shadow could've picked up on, making it stronger - the Shadow itself wasn't the energy field or the Nexus, but something that connected itself to that energy field, making its evil stronger.

Now *that* makes sense! For helping straighten me out, you have been blessed!

[Jad]

Charmed's biggest problem was continuity. There were no rules in the Charmed world that the writers could undo by the words, 'it is all magic and magic can do anything'.

It also had to do with the writers aversion to taking chances. They set up many arcs that could have been brilliant, but failed because they didn't trust the audience enough to follow. They were so afraid of losing the audience that they always took the easy way out.

[Reality Bites]

Jun 12, 2011 13:40:48 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Jun 10, 2011 19:53:36 GMT -5 Reality Bites said:

You're confusing what I'm saying Es. If you follow the previous posts, I was saying The Shadow and The Woogy are the same, not that the Nexus and the Woogy are the same.

Also, I do believe the Shadow/Woogy resided within The Nexus' energy field, and formed some sort of mystical connection to it.

You're treating The Nexus as a thing again, like Kern did, which it isn't.

BUT, OH! I see what you mean. You're saying that thre could be an energy field in that center area of the triquetra, an energy field called The Nexus. OH! If you mean that, then that would be a thing, a thing that the Shadow could've picked up on, making it stronger - the Shadow itself wasn't the energy field or the Nexus, but something that connected itself to that energy field, making its evil stronger.

Now *that* makes sense! For helping straighten me out, you have been blessed!

That's exactly what I meant! Thanks for the blessing Es! ;D

[ljones]

What I'm saying is that the Woogy/Shadow shouldn't have been evil when it possessed Phoebe, as good magic was in control of the house. Therefore it couldn't have been the Nexus that possessed her, but something more sinister like a demon.

But doesn't Phoebe, her sisters and Leo have evil within them? They have proven this on several occasions . . . without being possessed.

[Esmeralda]

Of course. Everyone has evil. But because she was connected to the Manor through the Nexus, it was easier to for her to choose Evil over Good - just like Wyatt, who was also born in the Manor.

That's why the Shadow (and Cole...) chose Phoebe over the other sisters.

[pixiesunbelle]

I always thought The Shadow and the Woogeyman were the same...

[Esmeralda]

Yes, "Woogeyman" was Phoebe's name for the Shadow. But neither are the Nexus, which is what Kern confused them, the same way he confused the Hollow with the Shadow - the "bad guy" that the sisters took in was the Shadow, not the Hollow. The Hollow absorbs powers and only gives them back when it's put back in its box. The way Kern used it in S8 was just like he used it in S7 - it was the Shadow divided between 5 people (something not possible - just like the Shadow couldn't be part of more than one) - but since Kern had the Shadow vanquished in S7, he couldn't use it again.

[CharmedBOSthanh]

You know how they say no one who has any evil can touch the book of shadows however in some episodes Zankou holds the book and uses the book in "Something Wicca This Way Goes" the book allows him to use it and hold it. This seems to happen in other episodes to but I cannot remember any others can you? Even Paige says to Drake in one show that the book has been tricked before by a variety of evil beings This seems to be a common mistake that runs through Charmed. I also think another thing is that the witches powers should not be able to be taken out of them example "The power of three blondes", if the witches have their powers there really shouldn't be any reason why they should not keep them always. It just seems to be kind of dumb the way that was written in the show. Another thing is that if evil touch the book of shadows I think it should have more protective power like the crystal cage does and be able to really zap the evil folk hard.

[iamthesun]

I think that Zankou and other demons were able to get hold of the Book because the bond between the sisters had been weakened.. e.g when they have arguments and resent one another. The triquetra breaks apart when this happens. It makes sense that the Book is weakened when this happens as the sisters are connected to it.

[Esmeralda]

Nope, it was more that the Book was no longer important once Magic School popped up.

[Esmeralda]

Nope, it was more that the Book was no longer important once Magic School popped up.

Although I like your explanation, too - that and the fact that the second set was never as close as the first set, since the second set were busier with their personal lives - Phoebe and her baby hunt; Piper and her family; Paige and...well, being Paige.

[forbuss]

I think that definitely makes sense! And HEY it works for the whole Paige not being able to heal thing either..

I don't really see that as a bad thing though. It makes sense that it would take 4 years for her to truly love her sisters.