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Post by kriswyatthalliwell on Jan 14, 2014 13:12:01 GMT -5
That's true, Piper always and will probably forever see Paige as Prue's substitute. It's been very evident in other instances too like when Piper has to chose between Paige and Phoebe, Phoebe will always win. Or even in "Kill Billie Part 2" When Piper doesn't even try to look for Paige. I wouldn't go as far as to say Piper doesn't love Paige, but if Prue and Paige were about to vanquished by the Source and Piper could only save one.... you know she'd save Prue Not judging though.. lol i'd save Prue too  |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 14, 2014 13:46:07 GMT -5
And you know she'd save Phoebe over Paige.
The sad part is I think Paige would save Piper over Phoebe....
As for Phoebe? She'd save Phoebe.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2014 16:43:38 GMT -5
I have to disagree with you both
Piper: "I know I haven't been the most welcoming. I just… I miss Prue so much. It's hard to imagine opening up to someone else. With everything that happens in our lives, love just feels like an invitation for more pain."
Piper is closed off to Paige not because she doesn't view her as a sister but because the possibility of loss from fighting demons. She wouldn't be able to bare the pain of losing someone shes close to again. Prue was her best friend and with her dying it made death very real in their world. I don't think Piper placed Paige on that pedestal of comparison, that was something Paige put herself on because I don't think Paige really quite understood Piper. So Paige felt like she had to prove herself to sisters when in reality she didn't. Watching Piper and her interaction with Paige throughout the series, I can say that her behavior has seemed to always be protective. Everytime Paige went out to do things on her own she would get upset or say you need us to help you. this boils down to Piper's fear of losing someone else. It also holds on par with her attitude of not always wanting to go after demons. Piper had a hidden fear of death. Which brings us to season 7
Death recruits Piper for the reason we are shown, but Death also instills knowledge into Piper. The scene where she takes Paige and doesn't cry, is because she finally understands death. The thing she feared the most since season 4. The same way Prue was faced with it in season 3 and let inspector Davidson die because *it was his time. I can list a lot of examples that support Piper's fear of death but I don't want to sway the topic. I don't udnerstand where this malice opinion comes from that she didn't cry because she wasn't a real sister?
It isn't until that episode and season 8 especially where Piper finally has come to terms with her inner turmoil. She and Paige no longer have that closed off relationship. Piper allows Paige to be herself and is no longer protective. Theres also a lot of moments where Piper opens up to Paige. Something that is rarely seen in seasons 5-7. That experience as Death helped Piper in more ways than you think.
I will say that Piper did in fact view Paige as a sister, but she had inner issues that didn't allow her to develop a healthy relationship with her until 5 years later. Paige is also to blame. But everyone has faults.
I just want to point out, Piper saving Phoebe over Paige is nothing but expected. Piper is closer to Phoebe than she is Paige. That has nothing to do with Piper not viewing Paige as a sister. Its common sense when you ask a person who they'll save in a tragedy. Everyone will save the person they're closest to. As for who Paige would save, based on her personality I don't think she would ever make that choice and sacrifice herself in exchange. She did it for an innocent after all why not a sister? As for Phoebe, she'll obviously choose Piper, the person she knew since childhood. Its common sense.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Feb 10, 2014 20:58:37 GMT -5
I wish I could enjoy the last seasons again and maybe see Piper the way you do. Unfortunately I can't.
I'd probably feel the way you do if she didn't go back to being the Piper we love in Season Five - my favorite sister during that season. That shows that she had gotten past Prue's death thanks to Wyatt's birth and that in turn should've allowed her to open her heart to Paige.
But she didn't - she never did, because she could never see her as anything but a substitute for Prue in the Power of Three. Yes, she named her son Wyatt Matthew but only because Paige had just saved Wyatt. If she hadn't, you know she would've chosen a different name.
Each time she treated Paige as a sister it always felt like she was doing it because she had to, not because she wanted to.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2014 22:00:30 GMT -5
I don't believe Piper ever got over Prue's death, at least not until "Styx Feet Under" where I feel she had a epiphany as Death. Its the reason why Piper was so closed off to Paige in the first place. The fear of opening herself up for more pain. I also believe Wyatt's birth just increased her fear of death/loss and not help with her inner issues. Just watch how she freezes and backs out of going with Paige to the demonic market and countless other times where she tries to avoid demons after his birth. It actually got worse during her pregnancy. I really wish you could enjoy the later seasons so you can see how Piper changes after that episode toward Paige in particular. Those moments where Piper treated Paige as a sister I feel were truly authentic. Those emotions were Piper's feelings toward Paige, unfortunately she still had inner demons to conquer which is why her behavior toward Paige was always bipolar season 4-6. She was conflicted internally. She wanted a close relationship with Paige but not really because she was afraid she would 1. Lose her 2. Paige would lose her. So she took the role of "protector" instead of sister most of the time. It makes sense especially when you rewatch and see just how protective she is of Paige in season 4 especially. It comes off as mean to some people, but everytime they bickered or Piper yelled it was telling her to not go or do anything alone. I love the scene where she yells at her for trying to vanquish Cole alone.
I blame Paige also. Her answer for everything was either walking off, or wanting to move out. She barely opened up to her sisters either. I remember a scene in season 5 where Phoebe hugs and kisses her on the forehead and she never even hugged her back. She never to my recollection gave her sisters any type of affection in that manner. Once in season 4 I think in the finale.
I believe Piper's heart was closed off to Paige, but not to demean her status of not being her sister. Just emotionally closed off most of the time. Season 8 is where Piper relinquished all those ill issues and opened her heart to Paige.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Feb 10, 2014 22:19:07 GMT -5
Again, I'd agree with that if she wasn't so much herself in Season Five. That showed that she had gotten over Prue's death and moved on. She could no longer use Prue's death as an excuse to constantly feel sorry for herself rather than trying to make Prue proud of her.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2014 22:48:48 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with trying to make Prue proud, but everything to do with ending up like Prue, dead. I don't agree she used those feellings to feel sorry for herself. She had genuine concern and fear. She always put Prue on high plate. She was her best friend, family caretaker, strongest witch, strongest person she knew and was killed. People take time to heal and deal with things. Some quicke than others.S5 she was more grounded in character but she was still damaged which is why I don't agree she was herself that season and came to terms with Prue's death at that point.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Feb 11, 2014 0:53:36 GMT -5
And if she tried more to protect others rather than just constantly feeling sorry for herself, I'd agree. But she didn't. For all of those concerns, the only one she was concerned about was herself.
The way she handled Leo's promotion to Elder shows that more than any other. Rather than caring about her husband and trying to make him feel better, she made him feel worse by doing a major whineathon before taking out her self-pity on San Francisco. That was when I started hating her and although I liked her here and there, I never loved her again like I did before.
She should've done her best to make him feel better about it and then once she was back home, away from him and with her sisters, then let all of her emotions out. But to do that to him when it was so very obvious that, no, he couldn't change (and then he did...all part of why I wish that Chris obliterating Leo's atom was the last time we saw Leo - then, depending upon how they had her handle it, I may have loved her again) , making him feel even worse...what a dreadful wife! She so did NOT deserve to be married to an angel!
And the fact that she gave in to her sisters and went after the fireman was totally disgusting. If she had *any* sort of love or respect for the man who she knew was supposed to be an angel, she would've waited. ESPECIALLY when Leo would actually show up! Even if Leo said it was okay - he shouldn't have had to.
I will never forgive Brad Kern for ruining her so badly.
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Feb 11, 2014 15:09:33 GMT -5
Getting back on topic, I would have to pick Charisma as Kyra at number one for best guest character. Yes, that choice is repetitive at this point looking at the thread, but I'm a sucker for anti-heroes, lovable rogues, and characters that are at least partially good in spite of X reason why they're supposed to be evil. Especially when they're done well, which I don't think anyone would argue against saying she was. It also doesn't hurt that she was stunningly sexy, or that she went a good way towards helping to cure Phoebe's me!me!me! streak.
If I need a number two and three, this is where my less-common picks come in. My number two is Yancey Arias as Inspector Cortez from the "Charmed Again" season 4 premiere. Cortez's arc through Charmed Again was in fact entirely similar to Paige's, except he had to play the role of the obstructive cop and she was the secret Charmed One. Between the small hint at his backstory (having lost a sister too, having seen too many things on the job not to suspect magic) and the subtle humility he showed when he realized that they were the good guys, there was a lot of room to expand with Cortez. I wish he could've stuck around or come back aftetwards, or at the very least that they would've said something about what happened to him after the episode.
Finally, Mykel Shannon Jenkins as Paul Haas from "Still Charmed & Kicking" and "Malice in Wonderland". He was good as a cunning, perceptive, and calculating antagonist, and the smooth-operating black guy persona was perfect for it. I thought he would've been a great representative for the new generation of demons after all the legends were killed. He's probably underrated because of the bad rap season 8 gets, and the fact that he had to immediately follow the ace that was Zankou, but to fish out the Charmed Ones the way he did when they were trying to disappear? That was no slouch.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2014 15:18:16 GMT -5
Finally, Mykel Shannon Jenkins as Paul Haas from "Still Charmed & Kicking" and "Malice in Wonderland". He was good as a cunning, perceptive, and calculating antagonist, and the smooth-operating black guy persona was perfect for it. I thought he would've been a great representative for the new generation of demons after all the legends were killed. He's probably underrated because of the bad rap season 8 gets, and the fact that he had to immediately follow the ace that was Zankou, but to fish out the Charmed Ones the way he did when they were trying to disappear? That was no slouch. I disagree. I found him boring and non threatening. Not the actor the character. I never understood why he wanted the manor anyway. As a trophy? The Nexus was destroyed so there was no power there. I wouldn't have been alright with him being the new ruler of the underworld. I didn't buy him as great villian. And no I'm not a season 8 hater, I watch it all the time on my re runs lol. I did find him better than that awful demon with the half mask though. |
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Feb 11, 2014 15:31:20 GMT -5
A trophy? Yeah, that probably is the best way of putting it. He himself referred to it as the SYMBOLIC seat of power, which apparently was better than nothing as far as the Underworld was concerned at the time since he felt that was enough to ensure that his faction wouldn't be answering to anyone (not counting the Triad, who he and most other demons didn't know were back). As far as being the big bad, I agree that that wouldn't have worked. A better idea would be if it turned out that someone else was the faction's true leader, but he was considered important enough to run some of their operations because of his mental competence. Kinda like Vornac was to Raynor in the Brotherhood of the Thorn.
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