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Post by vandergraafk on Sept 1, 2008 13:22:00 GMT -5
Okay, whitelightertony, I'm game. I'll take the bait. Culling your vast family history, could you list - just list - the male Warren descendants who might have met your criteria.
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
Posts: 1,171
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Post by pubesy on Sept 2, 2008 2:00:33 GMT -5
yes, i am quite intrigued!
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Post by whitelightertony on Sept 6, 2008 5:03:00 GMT -5
Macauley (listed on the family tree as "?") Monors (witch)
Macbeth Monors (witch)
Jonathan (listed on the family tree as "male") Warren (witch)
Jack Warren (witch)
Joseph Litchfield Jr. (witch)
Joseph Litchfield III (witch)
Michael Williamson Jr. (witch)
Frank Williamson (witch)
Paul Williamson (witch)
Theodore Williamson (witch)
Scott Bowen (carrier)
Jeffrey Bowen (witch)
George Harper (witch)
James Bowen (carrier)
Bartholomew Wentworth (witch)
Gregory Bowen (witch)
Gordon Johnson Jr. (Grams's brother - carrier?)
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Post by jate88 on Sept 6, 2008 13:39:55 GMT -5
Deathnote is about a teenager with power. Maybe it can help with the discussion www.deathnote.tv |
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Post by CharmedFaith on Sept 20, 2008 18:40:57 GMT -5
I wonder how Piper came to that conclusion, considering that she and her sisters had never faced any demonic attacks, after their powers had been bound between Phoebe's birth and the events of "Something Wicca Comes This Way". The girls did face demonic attacks while they were children, they just had Grams around to protect them. We saw a warlock enter the mantor and Grams vanquish him that Piper witnessed, The Woogy who almost got to Phoebe as a child, and the ice cream truck that drew Prue to it and probably many other attacks we dont know of due to Grams favorite memory spell. Grams was teaching the girls spells in ways that they couldnt make a direct link to witchcraft. So binding their powers (which only happened because of whats his name going after the sisters) did not stop all attacks. As for Grams knowing that they would end up becoming TCO, since there was a prophecy about them in the BOS, Grams probably noticed that each possessed a quality that the BOS had predicted (IE: Phases of the Moon, etc...) But all four of the sisters powers were only bound because of one threat that Grams and Patty couldnt take care of. The Elders in Paiges case and Nicolas in the 3 sisters case. Had Nicolas never went after Patty for the girls powers (did he suspect that they would be TCO?), their powers never would have been bound (or atleast not around that time frame). And Prue and Piper as children showed that they had control over their powers and knew not to use them in public unless allowed. So while they may have had the occassional slip up since they were children, they wouldnt have used their powers freely. |
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djv
Newbie
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Post by djv on Apr 3, 2009 18:39:37 GMT -5
When Wyatt was born, Grams made it clear that no Halliwell had ever given birth to a son. So it would be safe to assume that there have not been 3 sisters born prior to that, since Melinda Warren herself predicted the Charmed Ones coming (remember, they delivered Melinda when she was born). Although the series never confirms it, it would also be safe to assume that Melinda was the only "Halliwell" to have been born with the 3 powers of the charmed ones, and up until the Charmed ones were born, she had been the most powerful good witch ever. The power of the Charmed Ones is unique because each one was born with one of Melinda's powers, but since each is an individual, they magnified Melinda's power by 3.
To get back to the topic of binding powers, I can understand why this would be such a difficult decision for the girls. Wyatt was born to the eldest Charmed One which made Piper the most powerful. I have to believe that when Prue died, the "power" of being the eldest passed down to her. And since Wyatt is also half whitelighter...and not just any whitelighter- Leo was probably the most powerful whitelighter in the bunch (why else would he have been chosen to guide the prophesied Charmed Ones)- then that now makes him the most powerful good witch on the planet. Binding his powers would be a catch 22. I had not previously thought of the possibility of the demons coming after the girls more aggressively if his powers were bound, as vandergraafk expressed, but it makes sense. I don't believe the question is whether adolescents as whole can handle their powers, because each individual is different. Remember Prue and Max? Max was manipulated, but he chose to keep his gift. Tyler chose to have them bound. But the question should be, how would things have affected the girls if Wyatt's powers were bound? Would it have been safer for him or made things worse? Obviously a toddler conjuring dragons out of the TV and orbing all over kingdom come provide valid reasons for binding. But having the ability to heal as a child after Leo lost his powers is a good reason not to bind them. Personally I think that Leo and Piper did a great job of keeping him at bay. But in many ways, I think it could have changed the story line a great deal had they chosen to bind them. It would have a made an interesting show. Any thoughts on that?
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Apr 6, 2009 1:19:52 GMT -5
The only time Grams ever taught any of the sisters a spell, was the Woogeyman spell . . . and she only taught it to Phoebe.
That sounds like two threats that Grams and Patty had bound the sisters’ powers for. And if they had bound Paige’s powers, why bother giving her away? I’m sorry, but I cannot buy the idea that the Elders would have taken Paige away if Patty had kept her. I could see them punishing Sam for having an affair with one of his charges, but that’s about it. They couldn’t even FORCE Paige to assume whitelighter duties. They ended up tricking her into doing this.
How would Grams know about the Halliwell line? She is a Johnson, not a Halliwell. Her first husband was a Halliwell. Patty is the first member of the Warren line who was born as a Halliwell.
Melinda was a Warren, not a Halliwell. There was never a Halliwell in her line, until Patty.
Leo is the most powerful whitelighter? Huh? Since when?? That has NEVER been proven or stated in the series.
Piper was right to keep Wyatt’s powers unbound . . . so that she could use him for his healing abilities? I find that disturbing way to deal with one’s own child.
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Elder
Witch
"I'd still take 'good' that's not always good, over 'bad' that's NEVER good"
Posts: 1,029
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Post by Elder on Apr 7, 2009 15:56:25 GMT -5
About this whole "binding powers" stuff:
There was a scene where they say it will be difficult to bind Wyatt's powers.
I find this to be absurd because it's no different from binding the powers of any other witch. It just seems like you need to put in a few more things to strengthen the potion or have more powerful witches say a spell.
It's not like it can't be done at all.
Like Zankou said, "Nothing is impossible"
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Reality Bites
Familiar
When witches don't fight we burn.
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Post by Reality Bites on Apr 7, 2009 23:17:41 GMT -5
I think I remember that scene. I think Piper suggested it or something, and Paige said they would need the Power of Three to bind Wyatt's powers and she wouldn't do so voluntarily.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Apr 9, 2009 10:07:11 GMT -5
One, how does Paige know that the Power of Three would be needed to bind Wyatt's powers? She was able to strip a more powerful Cole's powers on her own. And two, what did she have against helping Piper bind Wyatt's powers? It was the mature thing to do. What was her problem?
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Reality Bites
Familiar
When witches don't fight we burn.
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Post by Reality Bites on Apr 12, 2009 6:20:28 GMT -5
I hunted it down and the scene was from season six, "Prince Charmed" (6x12). It was actually Phoebe who said they would need the Power of Three to bind Wyatt's powers, but Paige agreed with her that she wouldn't help bind Wyatt's powers willingly. Here's an excerpt taken from Charmed Scripts:
By the way, "David" is the Mr. Right Paige and Phoebe created so that Piper wouldn't give up on love.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Apr 12, 2009 11:09:01 GMT -5
Paige, Leo and Phoebe were really stupid. Piper's idea to bind Wyatt's powers was correct and made sense. Wyatt was too young to be handling his powers in an effective manner. Surely Paige, Leo and Phoebe could have realized this . . . especially after Wyatt had conjured a dragon to terrorize San Francisco. What the hell were they thinking?  They acted as if Piper wanted to strip Wyatt's powers away and not bind them. |
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
Posts: 1,171
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Post by pubesy on Apr 13, 2009 6:56:19 GMT -5
i dont think there is a right or wrong answer, when it comes to child rearing
the issue of to bind or not to bind kind of relates to the to smack or not to smack a child debate
there is no right or wrong answer
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Apr 14, 2009 14:43:29 GMT -5
But it was Piper's choice regarding her son.
And what made Paige assume that a Power of Three spell was needed to bind Wyatt's powers? She didn't need the Power of Three to create a spell to strip away Cole's powers in "Sympathy For the Demon". And Cole was just as powerful as Wyatt. Frankly, I suspect that he was stronger.
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Post by CharmedFaith on Apr 14, 2009 16:35:43 GMT -5
Somehow I think Wyatt was twice as strong as Cole was.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 15, 2009 11:53:07 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree with that. Especially when he was the Source, I think that Cole was four times as powerful as Wyatt. The only thing that was able to destroy the Source was the power of the entire line of Halliwell matriarchs as well as the Power of Three. I'm certain that if necessary, The Power of Three could've destroyed Wyatt, the reason why IF Piper was a responsible mother (which she wasn't), as soon as she knew that there was a possiblity that Wyatt's Twice Blessed Power could've corrupted him (since it SOOO obviously was *not* Gideon who did anything to him, since he still turned evil during S7), she should've bound Wyatt's powers, at least until he was an adult and had proven whether he would've used them for good or for evil. And with the way Chris used *his* powers to murder the Valkryie (which, IF Piper was less dense, she would've realized he would've had to do in order to get two more medallions), she should've bound his powers until he was an adult, too. And had she died when he was 14 it would mean neither son would ever get them. Sounds wonderful to me! Both proved that Warren powers corrupt males!
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Apr 15, 2009 17:50:57 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree with that. Especially when he was the Source, I think that Cole was four times as powerful as Wyatt. The only thing that was able to destroy the Source was the power of the entire line of Halliwell matriarchs as well as the Power of Three. I'm certain that if necessary, The Power of Three could've destroyed Wyatt, the reason why IF Piper was a responsible mother (which she wasn't), as soon as she knew that there was a possiblity that Wyatt's Twice Blessed Power could've corrupted him (since it SOOO obviously was *not* Gideon who did anything to him, since he still turned evil during S7), she should've bound Wyatt's powers, at least until he was an adult and had proven whether he would've used them for good or for evil. And with the way Chris used *his* powers to murder the Valkryie (which, IF Piper was less dense, she would've realized he would've had to do in order to get two more medallions), she should've bound his powers until he was an adult, too. And had she died when he was 14 it would mean neither son would ever get them. Sounds wonderful to me! Both proved that Warren powers corrupt males! I don't think that Cole was more powerful as the Source. I think he was more powerful in Season 5. When he and Piper were battling it out in "Tu Tambien", he didn't seemed to be taking their fight very seriously . . . and she had both hers and Wyatt's powers. Also, Cole was able to teleport the pregnant Piper (with Wyatt's powers) without any trouble. The Warren powers also seemed to have corrupted the females, considering the numerous times all four sisters and their grandmother had abused their abilities. |
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Post by Fourever Charmed on Apr 18, 2009 15:13:26 GMT -5
I wonder how Piper came to that conclusion, considering that she and her sisters had never faced any demonic attacks, after their powers had been bound between Phoebe's birth and the events of "Something Wicca Comes This Way". Well that's not true at all. Considering the threats that Piper knew she and her sisters had been faced with growing up - The Woogy (1x15), the warlock Nicholas (1x17), the Water Demon where Prue and Piper attended summer camp (2x08), trolls that have the potential to be dangerous and deadly (3x03), Prue getting sucked into The Nothing's Ice Cream Truck (3x10), and the demon who attempted to attack Piper on her birthday (5x07) - it's not at all hard to figure out how she came to the conclusion that there would be dangerous threats whether or not her child had powers and that, at least with powers, her child had a chance of protecting itself. The only time Grams ever taught any of the sisters a spell, was the Woogeyman spell . . . and she only taught it to Phoebe. Again, not true. Grams taught Prue, Piper, and Phoebe the spell to vanquish The Woogy. But Phoebe was the only one who believed in The Woogy, so she was the only one who remembered it. |
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Apr 19, 2009 4:34:01 GMT -5
I'm not sure about the Woogeyman spell. But I have to say about the following:
Nicholas was only a danger to the sisters WHEN THEY HAD THEIR POWERS. The Water Demon at the summer camp was not specifically after Prue and Piper. It was killing anyone who got too close to it. And wasn't the Nothing Ice Cream Truck supposed to be a threat to demonic children? Also, according to the script, only mortals are able to open the truck. So, why wasn't Prue or Phoebe able to do this? They are mortals. Several episodes like "All Hell Breaks Loose" have confirmed this. If the Halliwells were not mortal, Penny would have never died from complications of a heart attack. Or Piper would not have died from a bullet wound in an alternate timeline.
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Post by Fourever Charmed on Apr 19, 2009 10:10:49 GMT -5
I'm not sure about the Woogeyman spell. Nicholas was only a danger to the sisters WHEN THEY HAD THEIR POWERS. The Water Demon at the summer camp was not specifically after Prue and Piper. It was killing anyone who got too close to it. And wasn't the Nothing Ice Cream Truck supposed to be a threat to demonic children? Also, according to the script, only mortals are able to open the truck. So, why wasn't Prue or Phoebe able to do this? They are mortals. Several episodes like "All Hell Breaks Loose" have confirmed this. If the Halliwells were not mortal, Penny would have never died from complications of a heart attack. Or Piper would not have died from a bullet wound in an alternate timeline. No, he was not a danger just when they had their powers, he could've easily killed them without their powers, but since he wanted to steal their powers, he didn't kill them. And the Water Demon may not have come after Prue and Piper directly, but it was a demonic threat to their lives nonetheless. And I'm sorry, but Charmed does not share your definition of mortal. A mortal according to Charmed mythology is someone who does not have powers, someone like Victor, hence the reason Prue and Phoebe could not open the door. |
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They acted as if Piper wanted to strip Wyatt's powers away and not bind them.
