Reality Bites
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When witches don't fight we burn.
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Post by Reality Bites on Mar 28, 2009 13:21:05 GMT -5
Esmeralda brought up some interesting arguments in the Best Big Bad thread where she argued that Piper and Phoebe shouldn't have been able to astral project in "Something Wicca This Way Goes"; as the ability is not a extension of their base powers; freezing and premonitions, respectively. However, I think we should remember that the Warren line wasn’t just gifted their powers. They got them from Melinda Warren who developed them first. Melinda’s mother Charlotte didn’t possess any powers, or so it seems, as Melinda is described as being the first magical witch in the Warren line. According to Phoebe, the Book of Shadows says Melinda practiced powers, three powers.
Practiced is an interesting choice in words, meaning acquired or brought to perfection by practice. I think Melinda, being the first witch, taught herself, or was taught how to move objects with her mind, freeze objects, and see the future. Now, if Melinda could learn how to practice and acquire three distinct powers (that don't necessarily relate to each other) why can’t her descendants learn to practice a power that would become useful to them?
I know we’re used to the idea that a witch is only supposed to possess one unique power and develop that power and evolve it into a relatable power, but why should that be the only way a witch develops their craft? So that they won’t become too powerful? What’s wrong with becoming powerful?
Should a witch choose one power to practice and master, limiting her descendants with only being able to develop the one power she practiced? Or should a witch, no matter how far down the magical tree they are, be able to take interest in a power that would be useful, practice it and develop it for future use? I think so.
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Mar 28, 2009 13:46:03 GMT -5
I blessed you for making such a great debate.
To be honest, I always thought they were just using a spell to recreate the effect of Astral Projection. They have used spells before "Something Wicca This Way Goes" to astral before. There is no chance that they would be able to develope full astral projection in such a short while. And remember in S1 were Rex Buckland used another form of astral projection(which can also be called Telepathic Suggestion I guess), which you couldn't see him physically. This makes me believe there is more than one way to astral project. Prue possesed the power to use a form of it on her own, and maybe she knew another way to recreate a similair effect, which I am guessing is some sort of spell.
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Post by Assassin Witch on Mar 28, 2009 19:03:46 GMT -5
But if you LEARN an ability, it doesn't get passed down. It's not in your genes, so how can offspring aquire it, unless you TEACH it to them, so they learn it, too?
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Post by CharmedFaith on Mar 29, 2009 5:36:17 GMT -5
Heres the thing, by Charmeds original logic, Melinda may have thought that she practiced 3 different powers but they all stemmed from her. She was the first magical person in the Warren line to have powers and her powers just managed to stem off from each other that way.
Plus how do you learn a power? Fling your hands in the air untl you make something freeze?
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Elder
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"I'd still take 'good' that's not always good, over 'bad' that's NEVER good"
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Post by Elder on Mar 29, 2009 8:52:00 GMT -5
Fling your hands in the air untl you make something freeze I have been trying that all morning and it doesn't work. I had to fling my hand in the freezer while looking at an ice cube to make me feel better. |
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Post by Assassin Witch on Mar 29, 2009 13:44:43 GMT -5
This is one of the reasons I hated Willow after High School in BtVS. Way too powerful, and I didn't understand.
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Post by CharmedFaith on Mar 29, 2009 14:54:59 GMT -5
Well magic in the Buffyverse was different from magic in Charmed so I could accept Willow. Espically since she only became really powerful after she went all dark and absorbed all that dark magic.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Mar 30, 2009 13:26:40 GMT -5
The only psi abilities that Melinda Warren had possessed were telekinesis, freezing and precognition. That's it. I don't recal astral projection, empathy or Piper's molecular combustion (or whatever it is called) being part of the mix. This is one of the reasons I hated Willow after High School in BtVS. Way too powerful, and I didn't understand. Why? Because she did not inherit her abilities? Willow never had psi abilities. Just a strong talent for practicing magic via spells, chants, etc. |
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Post by CharmedFaith on Mar 30, 2009 15:29:56 GMT -5
When she concentrated enough she had very low telekinesis. She levitated a pencil ;D
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 31, 2009 19:16:35 GMT -5
Esmeralda brought up some interesting arguments in the Best Big Bad thread where she argued that Piper and Phoebe shouldn't have been able to astral project in "Something Wicca This Way Goes"; as the ability is not a extension of their base powers; freezing and premonitions, respectively. First, thanks for thinking my thoughts were interesting enough to start a whole new thread. This I'm not sure of. We know that Melinda was the first of the Warrens to be born in America. We do not know if she was the first to have powers. As I just said, I don't think Melinda was the first Warren to have powers. And as Elder pointed out, you don't receive powers by practicing them. True Melinda may have practiced them in order to gain better control over them. That's what I always thought that the witches were supposed to do--gain better control over their power(s). (No one says that each must only have one--after all, Melinda herself had three.) It's OK if you don't become *too* powerful. As I said in other threads, power can go to your head. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Look at Piper the goddess almost destroying San Francisco just because she couldn't get her way, or The Twice Blessed Child becoming the Twice Cursed Brat when his powers went to his head in the unchanged future. It's why I like the idea of The Power of Three. The only way it can be accessed is when The Charmed Ones join together; it's can't be done individually. Alone The Charmed Ones are not that powerful; together they are. As soon as Piper got her explosive powers, she became powerful and no longer needed her sisters--she could take care of demons all on her own. That's when Charmed first jumped the shark (just about the time that Kern took over--coincidence??? I think not!) and it was never the same again. I think so, too, but only if that witch indeed does have that power. I don't think you can practice a power you don't already possess, so I will still stand by my statement that Piper and Phoebe should not have been able to astral project, at least not the Charmed version of astral projection, where their astral self could cast spells. It was not a power they already possessed (or it would've already manifested itself) and it certainly was not a power that could be learned that quickly. Paige, yes, those two, no. Now if like Melinda Warren, a witch has more than one power and if that witch doesn't practice all of them then she would no longer have as good control over and eventually not be able to use it--it must be practiced in order for it to grow. Look how little Piper used her freezing power once she had the more powerful explosive one--if she needed to use it, would she have as precise control over it as she did before she got the explosive power? I doubt it. Or Phoebe? With how little she used her premonition powers after trying to use it to show Piper the avatar's version of a perfect universe, will she be able to have another premonition? I doubt it. Other fans have suggested that as the "potential replacement sister" Paige always had "baby versions" of each of the three powers and whichever sister died, that's the one she'd develop, because that's the one that was needed. This always made sense to me. After all, her half-sisters told her that she had the power to move things with her mind because that was Prue's power. And she used it. But does this mean that had she practiced, that like Melinda Warren, she could've developed whitelighter versions of all three powers? Definitely. And does this mean that her daughters also have those powers? Probably. This is what I think is meant by practice--becoming better with the powers you have or getting better with new ones that you have been given, not developing something you don't have. Now is it POSSIBLE that all the Warrens had all three of those powers and had they practiced, they could've developed them. Possibly. But develop one of them that well that quickly??? I think not. |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Mar 31, 2009 21:02:57 GMT -5
When she concentrated enough she had very low telekinesis. She levitated a pencil ;D Hmmm . . . I must have missed that scene. |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 14, 2009 12:27:12 GMT -5
Ditto! Which scene was that? That would be jumping the shark like few other scenes!
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Post by CharmedFaith on Apr 14, 2009 12:58:15 GMT -5
I dont remember the episode, but it is in S3. I think it might be Dopplegangland. But its not jumping the shark, she concentrated and practiced and it worked. Buffy magic is totally different thenCharmed magic in which you can learn these things. And telekinesis is something that is "common" even if it doesnt really work in the real world that we know of. Edit: yep its Dopple  |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 14, 2009 14:19:18 GMT -5
No, it *is* jumping the shark, because moving things with her mind is Prue's power, not Phoebe's, the reason why she should've never been able to levitate since that also had to do with moving things, not with seeing the future. Even if the power is something that's common, it's not something that she was supposed to be able to do, not within the "laws" of Charmed. But that's typical enough for S3 when Kern started to take over. After all, Piper could suddenly manipulate molecules rather than time...
Doepplegangland? Which episode was that? Do you mean Which Prue is That? That's the only S3 eppi I can think of where there was more than one of the characters, and that was Prue, not Phoebe.
And as you said...this is Charmed, not Buffy. The "laws" in both alternate universes were *not* the same so just because it worked on Buffy does NOT mean it would/should work on Charmed.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Apr 14, 2009 14:41:41 GMT -5
What if Melinda Warren had inherited her abilities from her father? What if that would also account for the reason why the sisters turned into werewolves or whatever, during their menstral cycle in a blue moon?
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Post by CharmedFaith on Apr 14, 2009 16:37:03 GMT -5
No, it *is* jumping the shark, because moving things with her mind is Prue's power, not Phoebe's, the reason why she should've never been able to levitate since that also had to do with moving things, not with seeing the future. Even if the power is something that's common, it's not something that she was supposed to be able to do, not within the "laws" of Charmed. But that's typical enough for S3 when Kern started to take over. After all, Piper could suddenly manipulate molecules rather than time... Doepplegangland? Which episode was that? Do you mean Which Prue is That? That's the only S3 eppi I can think of where there was more than one of the characters, and that was Prue, not Phoebe. And as you said...this is Charmed, not Buffy. The "laws" in both alternate universes were *not* the same so just because it worked on Buffy does NOT mean it would/should work on Charmed. Lol umm we are totally talking about different things here. My comments were towards Willow and Buffy...not Phoebe and Charmed. |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 15, 2009 11:51:51 GMT -5
LOL! No *wonder* I was so confused!
I still want to know which eppi Phoebe was able to move the pencil by concentrating...
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Post by CharmedFaith on Apr 15, 2009 16:06:24 GMT -5
LOL! No *wonder* I was so confused! I still want to know which eppi Phoebe was able to move the pencil by concentrating... lol again, that was Willow...not Phoebe I was talking about. |
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Apr 16, 2009 16:01:51 GMT -5
What if Melinda Warren had inherited her abilities from her father? What if that would also account for the reason why the sisters turned into werewolves or whatever, during their menstral cycle in a blue moon? Never even mention those rat creatures. They were the worst thing ever writtin on Charmed. yes even worse than pirates on Charmed. ARRRGGHHHHHH!!! Sorry about that. I just recently seen that episode again and it really just is wrong. But lol, I shouldn't read the Buffy post, I just started watching Buffy and I am only on S2. |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 17, 2009 11:45:48 GMT -5
*scratches head* Now I'm still VERY confused. When did this THREAD go off topic from Charmed to Buffy??
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