Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920 
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 15, 2010 8:30:53 GMT -5
Hey Es, I know this is totally off topic, but what does your avatar text mean? 99 44/100%, how can you be 99, but 44/100? 44/100 is a fraction, Patrick, like 5 1/2. 99 44/100% comes from an old Ivory Soap commercial when it said that Ivory Soap was "ninety-nine and forty-four percent pure soap." Later Rodney Milsap used that as part of his hit song. "Pure Love": Pure love
Baby, it's Pure Love
It's Ninety-nine and forty-four one-hundreds percent
Pure Love At the time I put that on, everyone was starting to list the new show that they were interested in and I wasn't interested in any of them. There were a couple things that I was still interested in, but when I watched TV, most of it was Charmed on TV. I should probably change it; it's not quite true any more, but I like it and haven't come up with one I like better. Definitely. |
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Reality Bites
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Post by Reality Bites on Sept 2, 2010 17:06:07 GMT -5
Devil's advocate here!
I like the idea of the Sam/Patty relationship being a clause for after the four year contracts were up, but the producers got lucky enough to be able to use it for season four instead. Any producer of a hit show wants it to move past four seasons for the sake of syndication. Once a show reaches 100+ episodes, a producer hits syndication gold! The more episodes available to air in syndication, the more money you make!
With that in mind, maybe the Sam/Patty love affair was put in place to continue the series past season four in case maybe one or two of the actresses left the series without renewing their contracts. I mean, yeah Patty only had Paige in the end, but her fourth pregnancy could have very well produced twins (identical or fraternal) or even triplets!
Hell, after the girls contracts were up they could have simply replaced all three with that backdoor! That would have been interesting; four seasons of the three original sisters, and than four seasons of three new sisters! Very intriguing idea! A challenging idea to have to write and retain viewership with, but intriguing nonetheless!
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Sept 2, 2010 23:56:32 GMT -5
That doesn't mean squat. For all any of us know, it could be a tale drummed up for the public.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 3, 2010 4:49:09 GMT -5
That doesn't mean squat. For all any of us know, it could be a tale drummed up for the public. Well, most of the stuff in the article, you wonder about, especially Alyssa's quotes - she'd won; she'd gotten rid of Shannen, so she could afford to be generous. The things I don't wonder about is Holly's quotes because she says almost the same thing during her interview on the Season 8 DVDs that were done *how* many years later? It's very obvious that she was still bitter how it all went down. So if she says things were down-right sisterly during S2, I believe her. Again, no mystery. They were *not* setting up the possibility for another sister; they just got lucky. |
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Post by Astral Echo on Sept 3, 2010 7:15:39 GMT -5
I think alot of what Alyssa and Shannen said were taken out of context, I don't think things were as bad as the media made it out to be. Everytime you read what they say, Holly seems to be saying that it wasn't as bad...that they could of worked it out. Comments like: "I wasn't going to call [Shannen] on the weekend to go hang out."
How do we know she actually meant Shannen, the mention of her name was put in by the media. But at the same time, that's saying to me: "I wasn't going to call [Shannen] on the weekend to go hang out...but on set, we could be more than civil to one another."
The media can twist things, cut things and even change things someone has said to spin a story the way they want it.
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Lexi
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Post by Lexi on Sept 5, 2010 11:30:06 GMT -5
Devil's advocate here! I like the idea of the Sam/Patty relationship being a clause for after the four year contracts were up, but the producers got lucky enough to be able to use it for season four instead. Any producer of a hit show wants it to move past four seasons for the sake of syndication. Once a show reaches 100+ episodes, a producer hits syndication gold! The more episodes available to air in syndication, the more money you make! With that in mind, maybe the Sam/Patty love affair was put in place to continue the series past season four in case maybe one or two of the actresses left the series without renewing their contracts. I mean, yeah Patty only had Paige in the end, but her fourth pregnancy could have very well produced twins (identical or fraternal) or even triplets! Hell, after the girls contracts were up they could have simply replaced all three with that backdoor! That would have been interesting; four seasons of the three original sisters, and than four seasons of three new sisters! Very intriguing idea! A challenging idea to have to write and retain viewership with, but intriguing nonetheless! Another possibility... S2 also brought in the three cousins that lived in the Manor. They show that Phoebe's past life was killed and that the Charmed Ones came from Piper's past life. What about Prue's past life? If the girls decided that they didn't want to renew their contracts after the four years but the producers still wanted to continue with the show they could have easily have done something with Prue's past life's children - nothing was ever mentioned about her and they just seemed to forget about her. So, Paige's story was never thought about until they really needed her. |
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Post by Astral Echo on Sept 5, 2010 11:43:16 GMT -5
But Phoebe Bowen didn't have any children according to the Family Tree.
And yes, I assigned her a first name. After all, Patty referred to her favourite Aunt Phoebe and as we know Penny had no sisters, she could of been talking about her great Aunt Phoebe Bowen.
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Lexi
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Post by Lexi on Sept 5, 2010 11:45:30 GMT -5
Paige wasn't on the tree but that didn't stop them from bringing up a storyline as to why she wasn't on the tree and how she came about.
Maybe Grams had the family tree and didn't bother to add on her second cousins (that's what they would have been, right?)
I'm sure if they would have wanted, they could have come up with something. It was just a what if, showing that a half sister wasn't the only thing they could have come up with and therefore the idea of twins or triplets (if all sisters and refused to renew contracts) wasn't all they could come up with either.
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Post by Astral Echo on Sept 5, 2010 11:47:33 GMT -5
I suppose your right. And besides, Kern never really cared for continuity!
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Reality Bites
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When witches don't fight we burn.
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Post by Reality Bites on Sept 10, 2010 19:21:53 GMT -5
Devil's advocate here! I like the idea of the Sam/Patty relationship being a clause for after the four year contracts were up, but the producers got lucky enough to be able to use it for season four instead. Any producer of a hit show wants it to move past four seasons for the sake of syndication. Once a show reaches 100+ episodes, a producer hits syndication gold! The more episodes available to air in syndication, the more money you make! With that in mind, maybe the Sam/Patty love affair was put in place to continue the series past season four in case maybe one or two of the actresses left the series without renewing their contracts. I mean, yeah Patty only had Paige in the end, but her fourth pregnancy could have very well produced twins (identical or fraternal) or even triplets! Hell, after the girls contracts were up they could have simply replaced all three with that backdoor! That would have been interesting; four seasons of the three original sisters, and than four seasons of three new sisters! Very intriguing idea! A challenging idea to have to write and retain viewership with, but intriguing nonetheless! Another possibility... S2 also brought in the three cousins that lived in the Manor. They show that Phoebe's past life was killed and that the Charmed Ones came from Piper's past life. What about Prue's past life? If the girls decided that they didn't want to renew their contracts after the four years but the producers still wanted to continue with the show they could have easily have done something with Prue's past life's children - nothing was ever mentioned about her and they just seemed to forget about her. So, Paige's story was never thought about until they really needed her. True, it would be interesting to see stories revolved around extended family members of The Charmed Ones! |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 10, 2010 23:20:49 GMT -5
Another possibility... S2 also brought in the three cousins that lived in the Manor. They show that Phoebe's past life was killed and that the Charmed Ones came from Piper's past life. What about Prue's past life? If the girls decided that they didn't want to renew their contracts after the four years but the producers still wanted to continue with the show they could have easily have done something with Prue's past life's children - nothing was ever mentioned about her and they just seemed to forget about her. So, Paige's story was never thought about until they really needed her. True, it would be interesting to see stories revolved around extended family members of The Charmed Ones! That would've been funny - Shannen not around, but the new Charmed Ones her character's past life's great-grandchildren with one of them looking like Piper and one of them looking like Phoebe! Anyone want to bet that they would've had an episode to show that that family tree is a bunch of hooey (as I always believed it was anyway - WAY too many inconsistencies!) and that Penny's mom was actually Past Prue (as I think it could've been anyway - just beause Past Piper is married to Past Dan does *not* meant that Past Prue could've married and had had Grams - the only one we know for sure is that P. Russell - the oldest of the cousins - was Past Phoebe) , so this new set of Charmed Ones came from Past Piper? And it would've been SO easy to do - just let all three original Charmed Ones stay dead after AHBL, and instead have Leo introduce us to a new set. Just think! Leo probably wouldn't want to marry someone else so no Wyatt and Chris! YES! I probably still wouldn't like it that much because it would still be Kern-produced, but it's definitely an interesting possibility. |
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Lexi
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Post by Lexi on Sept 11, 2010 3:05:50 GMT -5
With Kern in charge though, it would have probably been three males that would become The Charmed Ones. That I would definitely have not watched! Season 6-8 was bad enough but to completely change the basis of the show of three female witches to three male witches would have been *far* too much.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Sept 11, 2010 4:10:32 GMT -5
I don't see why the series had to be about three females. Why not mix the genders?
Why can't society just embrace the idea of balance between the two genders? We have a patriarchal society that goes out of its way for men to dominate. Feminists talk about equality between the sexes, but what they really mean is for women to dominate. Both genders want the power in society . . . and are incapable of considering equality between them both.
Both "CHARMED" and "BUFFY" have succumbed to this kind of mentality. It's either one gender or the other. Not both.
Unfortunately, neither did Constance Burge. Both of them screwed up . . . a lot.
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Lexi
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Post by Lexi on Sept 11, 2010 9:25:31 GMT -5
I don't see why the series had to be about three females. Why not mix the genders? Why can't society just embrace the idea of balance between the two genders? We have a patriarchal society that goes out of its way for men to dominate. Feminists talk about equality between the sexes, but what they really mean is for women to dominate. Both genders want the power in society . . . and are incapable of considering equality between them both. Both "CHARMED" and "BUFFY" have succumbed to this kind of mentality. It's either one gender or the other. Not both. People fell in love with a show that was about three sisters who were witches and kicked behind. It's not about saying that women are better than men, it's about a show sticking to what it originally set as its foundations for the show. A long line of females with powers. I never said that I wouldn't watch a show that had *both* genders working together - many fanfics that are based on Charmed do actually put both males and females in league with each other. I just stated that I wouldn't have wanted to watch Charmed had they changed the *whole* basis to the show. Neither show succumed to the idea of one gender has to be better than the other, in fact there aren't many shows out there that are mainly about females in power (Charmed, I think is still, the longest running show with a main female cast) Charmed and Buffy have just shown that women don't always have to be the damsel in distress and they aren't helpless. Connie wasn't as bad as Kern for the inconsistancy. Seasons 1 and 2 weren't so bad with the inconsistencies - at least nothing too big that made me scream. Season 3 wasn't *that* bad anyway, nothing that comes to mind anyway. But Season 4 onwards was when it really got bad but that's the problem when you have a change in Executive Producers. The second one needs to be completely brushed up with what the first one already set to be able to keep the consistency up. (It's something I'm wondering about Supernatural now that they have a new Executive Producer after five years!) |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 11, 2010 11:02:59 GMT -5
I don't see why the series had to be about three females. Why not mix the genders? Why can't society just embrace the idea of balance between the two genders? We have a patriarchal society that goes out of its way for men to dominate. Feminists talk about equality between the sexes, but what they really mean is for women to dominate. Both genders want the power in society . . . and are incapable of considering equality between them both. Both "CHARMED" and "BUFFY" have succumbed to this kind of mentality. It's either one gender or the other. Not both. People fell in love with a show that was about three sisters who were witches and kicked behind. It's not about saying that women are better than men, it's about a show sticking to what it originally set as its foundations for the show. A long line of females with powers. I never said that I wouldn't watch a show that had *both* genders working together - many fanfics that are based on Charmed do actually put both males and females in league with each other. I just stated that I wouldn't have wanted to watch Charmed had they changed the *whole* basis to the show. Neither show succumed to the idea of one gender has to be better than the other, in fact there aren't many shows out there that are mainly about females in power (Charmed, I think is still, the longest running show with a main female cast) Charmed and Buffy have just shown that women don't always have to be the damsel in distress and they aren't helpless. Agree totally, which is part of why I hated "The Perils of Poor, Poor, Pitiful Piper" (aka S6-8) so much. Suddenly the sisters were nothing without their men. *shudder* I wouldn't give Kern that much leeway - after all, he was writing episodes during S1, so he knew what was going on. He had no excuse to be as inconsistent with the original seasons as he did. He simply did what worked best for that particular episode and who cared what had been established before? WE DID! In supernatural shows, you have to be even *more* careful about being consistent, because it's that consistency that makes the magic seem real. |
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Lexi
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Post by Lexi on Sept 11, 2010 12:43:16 GMT -5
People fell in love with a show that was about three sisters who were witches and kicked behind. It's not about saying that women are better than men, it's about a show sticking to what it originally set as its foundations for the show. A long line of females with powers. I never said that I wouldn't watch a show that had *both* genders working together - many fanfics that are based on Charmed do actually put both males and females in league with each other. I just stated that I wouldn't have wanted to watch Charmed had they changed the *whole* basis to the show. Neither show succumed to the idea of one gender has to be better than the other, in fact there aren't many shows out there that are mainly about females in power (Charmed, I think is still, the longest running show with a main female cast) Charmed and Buffy have just shown that women don't always have to be the damsel in distress and they aren't helpless. Agree totally, which is part of why I hated "The Perils of Poor, Poor, Pitiful Piper" (aka S6-8) so much. Suddenly the sisters were nothing without their men. *shudder* Very very true. Fair enough when you find the person you think you can spend the rest of your life with you can lose some of your independance but that doesn't mean you can't live completely without them. It would have made sense for Piper to find it a little difficult to adjust to being a single mum and witch when Leo left but not for her to be the way she was (ie. constantly complaining about it!) Oh no! I wasn't giving him leeway, I'm just saying that that can be a problem when someone takes over a show. I didn't actually realise he'd written episdoes in season 1, was it the episodes that I didn't really like? (hehe!) You do have to be very careful with consistancy. I actually think he couldn't be bothered to go back and check what had already been established and decided it was his chance to turn Charmed into what *he* wanted it to be about in the first place - the Superkid and his whiny baby brother. |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 11, 2010 15:02:34 GMT -5
Here's all of the episodes that Brad Kern wrote:
Season 1
"I've Got You Under My Skin"
"Wicca Envy" (story and teleplay)
"Secrets and Guys" (story)
"The Power of Two"
"Deja Vu All Over Again"
Season 2
"Witch Trial"
"Ex Libris" (teleplay)
"Be Careful What You Witch For" (story and teleplay)
Season 3
"The Honeymoon's Over"
"All Hell Breaks Loose"
Season 4
"Charmed Again, Part 1"
"Charmed Again, Part 2"
"Black as Cole"
"Witch Way Now?" (Directed also)
Season 5
"Centennial Charmed"
"Cat House"
Season 6
Season 6"Valhalley of the Dolls, Part 1"
"Valhalley of the Dolls, Part 2"
"The Courtship Of Wyatt's Father"
Season 7
A Call to Arms"
"Something Wicca This Way Goes" (story and teleplay)
Season 8
"Still Charmed and Kicking"
"Malice in Wonderland"
"Payback's A Witch"
"Kill Billie Vol. 2"
"Forever Charmed"
So he honestly had no reason not to know what had happened during the earlier seasons. He very simply did not care!
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Sept 12, 2010 0:58:25 GMT -5
I wish I could agree with you, but I can't. "CHARMED", like "BUFFY" did indulged in a great deal of male bashing, despite Kern's attempt to portray Grams as a misandrist.
And if the series had featured the Halliwells as a mixed gender family, I believe it is possible that "CHARMED" still could have become a popular series.
Nor do I see why the series "HAD" to stick with the theme about a family that featured a long line of females with powers. Frankly, I believe this theme was simply a case of male bashing, disguised as feminist empowerment.
Constance Burge, who couldn't even get Victor's name right or the portrayal of warlocks, was just as guilty.
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Lexi
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Post by Lexi on Sept 13, 2010 11:09:11 GMT -5
I wish I could agree with you, but I can't. "CHARMED", like "BUFFY" did indulged in a great deal of male bashing, despite Kern's attempt to portray Grams as a misandrist. And if the series had featured the Halliwells as a mixed gender family, I believe it is possible that "CHARMED" still could have become a popular series. Nor do I see why the series "HAD" to stick with the theme about a family that featured a long line of females with powers. Frankly, I believe this theme was simply a case of male bashing, disguised as feminist empowerment. If it started off as a show that was mixed gender, I agree, if could have still been such a popular show. What I meant was that if you changed the premise of the show half way through without some *very* good reasons, it would have lost what it was completely. Wyatt, the super-brat, was the worst thing that happened to the show when they were pretty much stating that he was more powerful than the Charmed Ones - completely changed the premise of the show - but to bring in the idea of three brothers who were The Charmed Ones would have made it even worse! I'm sorry, but that would have made me stop watching completely. Ah, yes, the episodes in season 3 were bad for continuity but no where near as bad as season 4 onwards. The worst bit of continuity were that in season 2 it stated only children or those with child-like innocence could see magical creatures and then all of a sudden in season 5 onwards you could see magical creatures as long as you were magical - I couldn't forgive them for the inconsistancy with that. Trying to find a name in a script if it's hardly used can be difficult but such a huge basis for an episode like that, there's no excuse. |
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Post by StoryGirl83 on Sept 14, 2010 11:40:06 GMT -5
To be fair on the Victor issue, I think the only place "Victor Halliwell" is listed is in the closing credits of "Thank You For Not Morphing". I haven't actually checked the closing credits, so I don't know for sure it's in there, but I have checked the script posted on charmedscripts.tv, so unless it's written on a paper or something, I don't think it's in the actual episode.
And "Victor Jones" is listed only on the highly inconsistant family tree in "Pardon My Past" (which really bugs me, the family tree being such a mess), but it's one of those things that probably wasn't really paid a lot of attention to. And who knows, someone might have been told to make a family tree and make sure it had certain names, but not actually reviewed, since they don't think about fans paying tons of attention to a piece of paper that was shown once in one scene (and then a new one was made which was not consistant with even the other one), but that wasn't until season five.
So it's possible that outside of checking the ending credits of one episode and taking a magnifying glass to the TV on another (since I'm sure the actual tree was long gone, and I don't know how well their screens showed images, though that one is less likely to actually need the magnifying glass I guess), they didn't have a way to tell what Victor's last name was, unless they . . . I don't know . . . wrote it down somewhere for canon's sake, which would have been a good idea, but not something they appear to have done.
Lexi, the episode you are thinking of is "Once Upon a Time" and it's in season three. I figured you might want to know that.
And LJones, I'm not saying there weren't inconsitancies . . . I'm not denying that Victor's name was one of them, it was and that's something you shouldn't forget, but it wasn't so bad as far as air time as some other things. I mean, how about having Phoebe state right out that P. Russel, was her age when she died, while the screen is focused on the line that tells you in reality P. Russell was five years older than her or something like that (I'd have to double check, but I believe the dates are 1894 - 1924 and 1975 - 2000). I've tried to convince myself that maybe they were trying to make it 1899, but that has to be the most "4" like "9" I have ever seen if it is.
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