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Post by gemma1988 on Jun 15, 2010 14:29:26 GMT -5
Do tell how this is the Seer's blood: (The Seer picks up a knife and moves closer to Cole.)
Seer: For the tonic.
(She cuts his hand and he drips his blood into the cauldron.) That is the only mention of blood in the entire episode ("The Fifth Halliwell" if anyone isn't sure) and it's Cole's. Yes, Cole's blood is in the tonic. Not the Seer's unless someone has proof otherwise. The power of the moon combined with this tonic will make her fertile to a demon's seed, and override any preventative measures she's taken. In otherwords it is a majorly powerful fertility treatment that gets around contraceptives and makes it so that she's ovulating then, instead of when she normally would. Which actually makes it more likely that it's Phoebe's and Cole's. The demon seed is Cole's Sperm. Cole's blood was needed. She got Phoebe's egg buy altering Phoebe's ovulating, nothing else. I'm not really sure how fertility drugs work, but I think it's a little like that. I do agree, sort of, to the statement that when Cole died his baby was the source. However I would add two words. When Cole died his baby was possessed by the source. It seemed clear that Cole was never fully the source, instead that the source was possessing him. I can't say how much control Cole had, but he was possessed. I think the baby was more possessed, because he had not devoloped any "self", if that makes any sense, yet. if you watch womb raider phoebe say Paige: Well, I guess that's what you get when you breed with the Source of all evil. Phoebe: Okay, can we not say breed. You know, I'm not a horse. And Cole wasn't all evil, he was part good, and I'm all good, so this baby has a lot of good in him. Piper: What if there's not? Phoebe: Then there will be. My love was able to save Cole, it'll save our son too. Piper: Let's hope so. Phoebe: No, we'll make it so. Okay. So what did you find out about the Seer? Paige: Well, she's immune to spells and charms but the book does classify her as an upper level demon. Leo: So we can make a vanquishing potion. Piper: Mm-mm, not without a tissue sample. Phoebe: Actually, the Seer mixed her own blood into my prenatal tonic. |
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Post by StoryGirl83 on Jun 15, 2010 14:49:03 GMT -5
Ah, so that's where you get that part. That still was something that was after the fact and therefore does not have to do with whether the baby is Phoebe and Cole's or the Seer's. I thought you were saying the the Seer put her blood in the chocolate's (which might have effected who's baby it was) and not the tonic (which only effected the baby's tendency toward good and evil).
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jun 16, 2010 22:44:35 GMT -5
So . . . did the Seer's blood contain one of her eggs? Is that it? I don't know what Kern and his writers were smoking when they wrote this piece of crap. Because that is what it is . . . crap. As far as I'm concerned, one of Phoebe's eggs and one of Cole's sperm created that kid.
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Post by gemma1988 on Jun 16, 2010 23:33:52 GMT -5
So . . . did the Seer's blood contain one of her eggs? Is that it? I don't know what Kern and his writers were smoking when they wrote this piece of crap. Because that is what it is . . . crap. As far as I'm concerned, one of Phoebe's eggs and one of Cole's sperm created that kid. the moon where its a strong night to fall pregant and the tonic which had the seers blood in to help the baby has it was pure evil when cole dies phoebes baby is the Source as the seer want to take over the underworld she need the baby to help her do this....as the seer as the baby inside her its too much for her to handle and she blows everyone up (apart from the charmed ones) the tonic was to keep the baby stong but the tonic had the seers blood in i think it was the chocolate's that had the egg in |
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Post by StoryGirl83 on Jun 17, 2010 6:55:57 GMT -5
Where do you get any evidence that the Seer put her egg in the chocolate? And even if she did, how would that end up in anyone's womb, let alone Phoebe's? What you eat does not end up growing into a baby in your womb. And even if my some chance it did, who fertilized it? You still need a sperm.
The only thing that Seer claimed to have put of herself into anything that entered Phoebe was her blood in the tonic. You admit that was for strength, therefore that is not relevant.
The chocolate did not plant a baby in Phoebe. It made her fertile and able to accept one.
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Post by gemma1988 on Jun 17, 2010 10:51:52 GMT -5
Watch it....it might lighten people views on it
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 17, 2010 12:50:10 GMT -5
I have watched those episodes and have also read the scripts. There is absolutely nothing in that season to make me think that the Seer could possibly have put one of her eggs into Phoebe - if anything, it's fairly obvious that the Seer doesn't have any eggs herself or she would've conceived the child herself. As is, she can't. The child was conceived from Phoebe's egg and Cole's sperm. He's their biological son.
The only reason why the Seer says he was never theirs but always hers is because she never expected Phoebe & Cole to raise him. She conspired for Phoebe & Cole to conceive him and turn him evil via her potion so that she could bring him into her own womb, give birth to him and raise him herself.
That way he would be hers the same way that Paige is truly her adopted parents' daughter more than Patty and Sam's - sister witch or not, she's a Matthews, not a Halliwell. Her calling Patty Mom when she'd never met her before never made a lot of sense to me, any more than Patty calling Paige Piper & Phoebe's baby sister when Paige wasn't raised with them - Phoebe will always be the Halliwell baby, the way my youngest brother will always be the baby of our family, even if he has two kids of our own. Patty was Paige's mother; her adopted mother was Paige's mom.
In that way, had The Seer raised Phoebe and Cole's son, yes, he would've been hers, but had Phoebe and Cole figured a way to get him back and raised him themselves then he would be theirs - Phoebe would be Mom, not just Mother, and Cole would be Dad, not just Father. As is Phoebe will always be the Phoetus' mother and Cole will always be his father.
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Post by erikamarie on Jun 18, 2010 3:01:26 GMT -5
I agree
The seer has foreseen the birth of "the Most Powerful child the magical world has ever seen" and has worked because this child could belonge to the evil. Phoebe fetus was her project son
Phoebe had not yet planned to have children, she had just married, she had just found a job, Cole had still to put up a life as human normally no one would have thought to have at once a child
In this sense the child belonged to the seer and the source he was the fruit of their projects
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jun 23, 2010 11:11:09 GMT -5
How did you come up with this theory?  Huh? Are you trying to say that Phoebe became pregnant with . . . the Seer's baby by consuming some chocolate that contained the Seer's egg? All you're stating is that the Seer had manipulated Phoebe into getting pregnant earlier than she had intended. This is not an excuse for the Seer to declare the baby as hers . . . or for Phoebe to agree with her. |
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pixiesunbelle
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Post by pixiesunbelle on Jun 24, 2010 23:03:48 GMT -5
I have watched those episodes and have also read the scripts. There is absolutely nothing in that season to make me think that the Seer could possibly have put one of her eggs into Phoebe - if anything, it's fairly obvious that the Seer doesn't have any eggs herself or she would've conceived the child herself. As is, she can't. The child was conceived from Phoebe's egg and Cole's sperm. He's their son. The only reason why the Seer says he was never theirs but always hers is because she never expected Phoebe & Cole to raise him. She conspired for Phoebe & Cole to conceive him and turn him evil via her potion so that she could bring him into her own womb, give birth to him and raise him herself. That way he would be hers the same way that Paige is truly her adopted parents' daughter more than Patty and Sam's - sister witch or not, she's a Matthews, not a Halliwell. Her calling Patty Mom when she'd never met her before never made a lot of sense to me, any more than Patty calling Paige Piper & Phoebe's baby sister when Paige wasn't raised with them - Phoebe will always be the Halliwell baby, the way my youngest brother will always be the baby of our family, even if he has two kids of our own. Patty was Paige's mother; her adopted mother was Paige's mom. In that way, had The Seer raised Phoebe and Cole's son, yes, he would've been hers, but had Phoebe and Cole figured a way to get him back and raised him themselves then he would be theirs - Phoebe would be Mom, not just Mother, and Cole would be Dad, not just Father. As is Phoebe will always be the Phoetus' mother and Cole will always be his father. hm yeah i agree with this. however when watching it, i somehow thought it was either the chocolates or the tonic but this definitely makes more sense. though, i really wish we would have actually been able to see phoebe's son... |
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Post by ljones on Aug 1, 2010 15:22:35 GMT -5
Esmeralda, where do you get the idea that the Seer had no eggs? Because she is a demon? How did Cole's dad conceive a child with Cole's mother?
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 1, 2010 19:48:32 GMT -5
Esmeralda, where do you get the idea that the Seer had no eggs? Because she is a demon? How did Cole's dad conceive a child with Cole's mother? Oh, of course the Seer had eggs at one time. I just think she's too old to have a child now or she would've had the child with the original Source - she wouldn't have waited for Cole and Phoebe. The idea that's ridiculous to me is her putting her egg inside of Phoebe. That's what makes no sense. |
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Post by ljones on Aug 2, 2010 14:38:16 GMT -5
Esmeralda, where do you get the idea that the Seer had no eggs? Because she is a demon? How did Cole's dad conceive a child with Cole's mother? Oh, of course the Seer had eggs at one time. I just think she's too old to have a child now or she would've had the child with the original Source - she wouldn't have waited for Cole and Phoebe. The idea that's ridiculous to me is her putting her egg inside of Phoebe. That's what makes no sense. The only way for the Seer and the original Source to have children was for them to have sex. And I don't recall the series hinting of any sexual or romantic relationship between them. Nor do we know how old the Seer was in demonic terms or if she was too old to have children. |
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 2, 2010 16:55:13 GMT -5
Oh, of course the Seer had eggs at one time. I just think she's too old to have a child now or she would've had the child with the original Source - she wouldn't have waited for Cole and Phoebe. The idea that's ridiculous to me is her putting her egg inside of Phoebe. That's what makes no sense. The only way for the Seer and the original Source to have children was for them to have sex. And I don't recall the series hinting of any sexual or romantic relationship between them. Nor do we know how old the Seer was in demonic terms or if she was too old to have children. Who says you have to have a "relationship" in order to have sex in order to have a kid? All S6-S8 PhoeME wanted was her daughter and she sure didn't wait to have a relationship with the guy before hopping into bed. And if The Seer told The Source that together they could have the most evil kid ever, well, just watch how quickly they'd hop in the sack! The fact that they didn't tells me that that - killing off the original Source and having Cole become possessed by the essence of the Source so that he and Phoebe could create that most evil of all children who she could raise and be the power behind the throne for? I'm certain that's what she saw in her visions and was her plan all along. Now as I've said before, had Phoebe and Cole been able to get the kid back and raise him good, then he wouldn't have been evil, but had The Seer been the one who had raised him, Evil Wyatt would've been a saint compared to the Phoetus. |
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Post by marienomad on Nov 26, 2010 0:58:24 GMT -5
I had been thinking about this for some time. Now, Piper and Leo had been trying very hard to have a baby. The seer managed to take the baby from Phoebe and then she exploded. The cage that was holding the Charmed Ones can take in magic. What if the baby somehow traveled back through the cage and went into Piper to get born?
That could explain why Wyatt was born a boy and incredibly powerful.
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Post by Reality Bites on Nov 26, 2010 17:06:23 GMT -5
I think it would be interesting if Wyatt was really the Phoetus, had that happened. Just not sure what would account for him gaining whitelighter powers though, unless baby Phoetus somehow merged with Piper's younger embryo.  |
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Post by Esmeralda on Nov 27, 2010 4:31:16 GMT -5
I think it would be interesting if Wyatt was really the Phoetus, had that happened. Just not sure what would account for him gaining whitelighter powers though, unless baby Phoetus somehow merged with Piper's younger embryo. OOO, that last part is interesting, but had they planned for Wyatt to be the Phoetus, I think we would've found that Piper didn't get pregnant until after the Phoetus was gone and that Wyatt would be an early baby. I think that would've been much more interesting, especially if Wyatt was Prudence Melinda. |
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Post by Reality Bites on Nov 27, 2010 18:01:15 GMT -5
OOO, that last part is interesting, but had they planned for Wyatt to be the Phoetus, I think we would've found that Piper didn't get pregnant until after the Phoetus was gone and that Wyatt would be an early baby. I think that would've been much more interesting, especially if Wyatt was Prudence Melinda. Mhmm, my thoughts exactly. |
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Post by ljones on Nov 29, 2010 12:58:19 GMT -5
I don't deny that the Seer plotted to get Cole possessed by the Source and Phoebe pregnant by him. But that didn't make the kid hers. Phoebe and Cole conceived that kid, not the Seer and the Source. The Seer only planned its conception and later drew the Source (in possession of Cole's body) into the plan. But despite the Source being in possession of Cole's body, it was the half-demon's seed that conceived the baby, not the Source's seed or the Seer's egg.
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Post by StoryGirl83 on Nov 30, 2010 11:38:46 GMT -5
I don't deny that the Seer plotted to get Cole possessed by the Source and Phoebe pregnant by him. But that didn't make the kid hers. Phoebe and Cole conceived that kid, not the Seer and the Source. The Seer only planned its conception and later drew the Source (in possession of Cole's body) into the plan. But despite the Source being in possession of Cole's body, it was the half-demon's seed that conceived the baby, not the Source's seed or the Seer's egg. I agree with you that the baby was not the Seer's, nor the Source's. I believe the baby was probably posessed by the source after Cole's death, probably, but not necessarily (I'm not one hundred percent sure). And I believe that if Phoebe and Cole had been able to raise their baby, things would have been a lot different. However, I do not see why you used the quote above as a reason to argue for that point. I see nothing in there that says that baby was actually the Seers. All I see is comments that imply that the Seer's plan was to kidnap that baby from the very beginning, which I do believe is true. She never meant for Phoebe to carry that baby to term. She meant to kidnap that baby and carry him to term herself. It didn't make that baby her's but I do believe that was her plan and I do believe that is what Es' quote is saying. The other thing I see Es' quote saying is that she doesn't think the Seer could have concieved a baby with the source or she would have, which is why she had to kidnap a baby. She needed that baby possessed by the source, and she foresaw a way to get Cole possessed. In order for this to all work, she probably needed Cole to be dead (though I'm also not sure how passing on the source works, so maybe not). And the fact that the baby would be from a Charmed One also brought a lot of power to the table. I'm entirely not sure how "Centennial Charmed" comes into this, since in that the Seer also talked about a baby. Maybe she figured she get the baby and deal with getting that baby possessed at a later point. Or maybe she thought the source's right hand man combined with a Charmed One would be enough power to help her gain the power she wanted. I'm not sure. Either way I think both Cole and his son got the short stick in this matter and I think the girl's should have looked more closely at both of them. They should have looked into finding a way to get rid of the source without getting rid of the hosts. |
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