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Post by marienomad on Jan 18, 2011 6:00:21 GMT -5
I need some help and I had to know this, what are all the bad things that the Charmed Ones and Leo did? I am not talking about all the things they did while under a spell. Stuff they did of their own free will.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 18, 2011 23:02:50 GMT -5
Well, just off-hand - Paige not orbing the gun so they ended up murdering Rick (Hyde School Reunion) Taking in the Hollow so they could perform pre-meditated murder on Billie and CHristy (Kill BIllie, Vol 2) Paige and Phoebe stealing Darryl's soul without his permission (Valhalley of the Dolls) Piper taking out her anger on San Francisco (Oh, My Goddess, Part 2) Prue using her power to throw the reporters and the other neighbors (All Hell Breaks Loose) Piper turning the reporter into a turkey (not sure of the episode) After Grams told them to, Phoebe sending the Inspector to Timbuktu (Charmed Again, Part 2) Piper using her powers to make Wyatt a pumpkin costume so she would look like a better mother than the others (not sure of the episode) Phoebe lying to her sisters about vanquishing Cole (Sleuthing with the Enemy) The sisters using their powers to throw the poop at Pratt (Morality Bites) Future Phoebe using her power to kill Cal Greene (Morality Bites) Piper bringing in illegal fruit (Awakened) Prue stealing the owl feather (The Witch is Back) Paige continuing to blonde her hair when the peroxide kept going to her brain and making her stupider  I'm sure there's more, but this should be a start. |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jan 18, 2011 23:26:21 GMT -5
Helping the Avatars to cast a spell on humanity . . . without their consent. An act that led to the erasure of free will.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 19, 2011 1:01:17 GMT -5
OH! I'm blushing beet-red forgetting about one of the worst of all sins! Good job, ljones!
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Post by marienomad on Jan 19, 2011 7:52:21 GMT -5
Well, just off-hand - Piper turning the reporter into a turkey (not sure of the episode) I'm confused about that one. I know that Piper turned a bunch of reporters into rats but never a turkey. I thought Phoebe turned that one reporter into a turkey. |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 19, 2011 9:50:01 GMT -5
Well, just off-hand - Piper turning the reporter into a turkey (not sure of the episode) I'm confused about that one. I know that Piper turned a bunch of reporters into rats but never a turkey. I thought Phoebe turned that one reporter into a turkey. LOL, it's been SOOO long since I've watched an S4-S8 show, I'm sure you're right. But that gives you another sin - turning the reporter into rats! Especially the ones where I don't even remember the episode, I could very well be remembering wrong. |
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Post by ljones on Jan 19, 2011 13:04:58 GMT -5
Prue and Phoebe using magic to cure Piper, who was dying from eating fruit she had illegally purchased (breaking Federal law) - fruit that had not been inspected by Customs.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 19, 2011 13:56:59 GMT -5
Prue and Phoebe using magic to cure Piper, who was dying from eating fruit she had illegally purchased (breaking Federal law) - fruit that had not been inspected by Customs. Wouldn't call that a sin, and I already mentioned Piper bringing in the fruit. I don't count trying to save your dying sister a sin. I also wouldn't count Prue and Piper trying to save Phoebe from being burnt as a sin. But doing it by killing the man who was trying to kill Phoebe definitely is. At the time the sisters cast the spell to awaken Piper, they didn't know the consequences, just like Prue and Piper didn't know the consequences of saving Phoebe. Once they did, then they fix their error (error, not sin). That's the huge difference between the Charmed Ones as led by Prue and the Charmed Ones as led by Piper - the ones led by Piper first wouldn't figure out the consequences and second, wouldn't care what happened to others as long as they could save one of their own. It's what first Grams in "Charmed Again" and then Chris in "Valhalley of the Dolls" taught them. |
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Post by ljones on Jan 19, 2011 21:30:52 GMT -5
Yes it was. They were using magic for personal gain. And the reason Piper became ill in the first place was because she had broken the law. Also, the sisters realized that using magic to save Piper's life had consequences. That was why they were forced to endanger her life again.
Yes it was. Phoebe had committed cold-blooded murder. And instead of allowing her to face the consequences of her actions, Piper and Prue tried to save her. They were wrong to do so. That is why they had to stand aside and allow Phoebe to be punished.
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Post by marienomad on Jan 20, 2011 4:47:44 GMT -5
Okay, I found out that in Soul Survivor Phoebe did turn that guy into a turkey but changed him back and then turned him into a pig.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 20, 2011 8:15:56 GMT -5
Yes it was. They were using magic for personal gain. And the reason Piper became ill in the first place was because she had broken the law. Also, the sisters realized that using magic to save Piper's life had consequences. That was why they were forced to endanger her life again. But using magic for personal gain is not a sin. It's a misuse of magic, but it's not a sin, which is what Marie asked for. Not allowing Phoebe to face her consequences is not a sin. Misuse of magic, yes, but not a sin. Marie just wanted sins. |
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Post by ljones on Jan 20, 2011 12:41:10 GMT -5
Piper committed a crime when she purchased that fruit. Fruit that could have caused the deaths of a good number of people. Piper didn't know that the fruit was deadly. But she knew that it had not been inspected by Customs. Therefore, she was willing to risk the health of her customers for the almighty dollar. Piper should have paid the consequences for her actions. She nearly did, when she became ill.
But Prue and Phoebe decided that it was okay to use magic in order to prevent Piper from paying the consequences of her actions. However, their use of magic had its own consequences, when several patients to become ill with the same disease. Prue and Phoebe realized they were wrong to use the spell, and in the end, they were forced to reverse it.
But Leo stepped in and saved Piper's life. He made the same mistake that Prue and Phoebe did - he prevented Piper from facing the consequences of her actions. He suffered the consequences for his own actions by getting his wings removed by the Elders. As much as I dislike the Elders, I believe they were right to punish him.
Yes it is, Esmeralda. Prue and Piper almost committed an act similar to abetting the escape of a guilty and convicted criminal.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 20, 2011 21:03:55 GMT -5
Piper committed a crime when she purchased that fruit. Fruit that could have caused the deaths of a good number of people. Piper didn't know that the fruit was deadly. But she knew that it had not been inspected by Customs. Therefore, she was willing to risk the health of her customers for the almighty dollar. Piper should have paid the consequences for her actions. She nearly did, when she became ill. But Prue and Phoebe decided that it was okay to use magic in order to prevent Piper from paying the consequences of her actions. However, their use of magic had its own consequences, when several patients to become ill with the same disease. Prue and Phoebe realized they were wrong to use the spell, and in the end, they were forced to reverse it. But Leo stepped in and saved Piper's life. He made the same mistake that Prue and Phoebe did - he prevented Piper from facing the consequences of her actions. He suffered the consequences for his own actions by getting his wings removed by the Elders. As much as I dislike the Elders, I believe they were right to punish him. Yes it is, Esmeralda. Prue and Piper almost committed an act similar to abetting the escape of a guilty and convicted criminal. Nope, not at all. Illegal, maybe. But a sin, no. You're still mixing up on what's a sin and what's either a misuse of magic or illegal. None of those things are sins. LOL, I guess it's really up to Marie, since she's the one who wanted the info for a story. Obviously what you count as a sin and what I as a Roman Catholic count as a sin are not the same things. |
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Post by ljones on Jan 21, 2011 1:13:35 GMT -5
Well, I'm not a Roman Catholic. And I have a different view of what is considered a sin. You may not regard the sisters' actions in "Awakened" and "Morality Bites" as sins, but I do.
I guess we can agree to disagree.
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Post by ghostrider on Jan 27, 2011 14:25:58 GMT -5
I think I will try to avoid traveling down the sin/illegal road since that is open to one's personal belief's and convictions, and I have learned that it is not a wise idea to debate that....so I think for some of the issues mentioned I will go with the idea of human error and the heart ruling an action as opposed to the mind functioning with Vulcan logic.
I rather enjoyed many of the mistakes they made as humans/sisters...and the way they were able to correct some of their actions as learning/powerful witches.
Not saving Phoebe showed growth in who they had become mixed with wisdom and knowledge that they would need to continue in the magical world to which they had been thrown into.
I would like to think the writers had this in mind. They proved that just like the rest of us they too are not and would never be perfect.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 27, 2011 15:14:52 GMT -5
Well, I'm not a Roman Catholic. And I have a different view of what is considered a sin. You may not regard the sisters' actions in "Awakened" and "Morality Bites" as sins, but I do. I guess we can agree to disagree. That we can. And again, it's really up to Marie, since she wants to use it for her story. |
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 27, 2011 15:20:53 GMT -5
I think I will try to avoid traveling down the sin/illegal road since that is open to one's personal belief's and convictions, and I have learned that it is not a wise idea to debate that....so I think for some of the issues mentioned I will go with the idea of human error and the heart ruling an action as opposed to the mind functioning with Vulcan logic. I rather enjoyed many of the mistakes they made as humans/sisters...and the way they were able to correct some of their actions as learning/powerful witches. Not saving Phoebe showed growth in who they had become mixed with wisdom and knowledge that they would need to continue in the magical world to which they had been thrown into. I would like to think the writers had this in mind. They proved that just like the rest of us they too are not and would never be perfect. I agree completely |
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Post by ljones on Jan 29, 2011 5:14:53 GMT -5
I would also agree. However, I wish the show would take the time to point out that some of their actions were mistakes or crimes, instead of pretending that they had done nothing wrong or brushing the mistakes/crimes aside, because the sisters are the series' leading characters.
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Post by ghostrider on Jan 30, 2011 15:11:26 GMT -5
Posted by Esmeralda Wyatt on 1/27/11 at 3:20pm
Thank you for your agreement. I have lost some confidence in responding to comments made. You sparkled my day.
Posted by ljones on Yesterday at 5:14am
Thank you...It was up-lifting that you and I found a meeting of the minds....you made my day. Now...this could be a thought provoking thread...
Maybe this is the wrong place to start this so you decide. How about a legal-eagle (witch debate)...after all they did have some strange things happen in a court room.
Instead of just stating what they did wrong, or were selfish, or ignorant of the witch/mortal repercussions...lets take a specific episode and do a court room thing. Someone could defend, someone could argue...others could be members of the jury. This could be a new twist that we could have fun with and bring something different to the table. It could help to keep us going and give a shot of life to the sight. Anyone game....
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Post by Quadquetra on Jan 30, 2011 17:34:53 GMT -5
I am, I want too defend them. ;D
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