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Post by italiannna on Jul 10, 2007 23:18:19 GMT -5
When talking about whether or not Phoebe has grown up and matured, there are two ways of looking at it... During the Prue era, she was seen as the mess up, the one who always ended up getting into trouble and was known as the free spirited younger sister. After Prue's death, I find that Phoebe did mature quite a bit. She ended up finishing school and went back during Season 7. She had a stable job helping others and was respected by her friends, family and peers. However... She did not seem to grow up relationship wise and I thought the plot with her randomly dating any guy she came across was plain dumb, IMO. In my opinion, there were only two guys that I REALLY loved Phoebe with: Cole Turner and Jason Dean... And maybe even Drake, but he wasn't there long enough for me to love him as much as Cole or Jason. Another thing that bothered me, was that in the early years, Phoebe was fun and silly and a cool person to be around. But as the years went by, I found that she became ditzier and ditzier. I did not like that. It seemed as if all the fun was gone from Phoebe's body and was replaced by ditzy-ness and work-aholic syndrome... Anyways, there's my two cents...  |
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Post by vandergraafk on Jul 11, 2007 16:15:47 GMT -5
She never should have gone blonde in Season 3. (I can't believe I just wrote that!)
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Post by foxfire on Jul 11, 2007 21:20:29 GMT -5
HAHA! Doesn't Piper/Prue say something along those lines about Phoebe losing intelligence she became blonde?
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Post by vandergraafk on Jul 12, 2007 16:25:28 GMT -5
Absolutely! Charmed loved to take digs at blondes!
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Post by foxfire on Jul 13, 2007 14:40:34 GMT -5
Although, I will say that Phoebe's blonde wasn't actually that blonde anyway. It was more golden brown than anything else.
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Post by vandergraafk on Jul 13, 2007 14:50:51 GMT -5
Are you suggesting that going "golden brown" instead of "platinum blonde" saved Phoebe from becoming totally useless? If only PhoeME had changed her hair color, then we could have had an easily identifiable target.
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Post by foxfire on Jul 13, 2007 15:13:20 GMT -5
Haha! I'm just saying that her blonde wasn't that blonde. It was "Asian Blonde", if you will. Although, I can't entirely hate on her blonde hair... the only reason was that Prue was the one who dyed it.
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Post by whitelightertony on Jul 13, 2007 19:07:50 GMT -5
It probably cost them money to:
A.) put Alyssa on wires during studio time
B.) insure her stunts, every time they used levitation in an episode
C.) edit out the wires in post-production, so it would look like Phoebe was actually levitating
I do agree, though, that they should have had Phoebe get more premonitions, flashbacks, astral premonitions, astral flashbacks, and empathic sensations throughout Seasons 7 & 8.
They also could have had Phoebe's clairvoyance advance to the point where she could engage in remote-viewing (having visions of events as they occur in real-time).
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Post by foxfire on Jul 13, 2007 20:08:44 GMT -5
Yeah, that baffles me to this day. They never for once advanced Phoebe's premonition power. Prue and Piper's original powers expanded into something a lot more powerful. Prue's telekinesis alone evolved in season one. Piper later went on to freeze and unfreeze certain body parts which was a pretty cool feat.
Phoebe, on the other hand, never had her premonitions pass the *gasp* state. The producers and writers should have spent more time elaborating on her first power before they gave her a new one (just as they did with Prue and Piper).
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Post by marienomad on Jul 13, 2007 22:45:14 GMT -5
Yeah, that baffles me to this day. They never for once advanced Phoebe's premonition power. Prue and Piper's original powers expanded into something a lot more powerful. Prue's telekinesis alone evolved in season one. Piper later went on to freeze and unfreeze certain body parts which was a pretty cool feat. Phoebe, on the other hand, never had her premonitions pass the *gasp* state. The producers and writers should have spent more time elaborating on her first power before they gave her a new one (just as they did with Prue and Piper). Actually, Phoebe's power did advance. Once, Phoebe was able to actually astrally project into her future self and gotten injured by her premonition and then in season eight, she was able to actually talk with her future self about her daughter. Of course, it would be helpful if these advances would happen more than once but it happened. |
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Post by whitelightertony on Jul 14, 2007 2:58:58 GMT -5
Yes indeed.
Phoebe also had an astral premonition in "A Witch in Time," where she astraled into her future self witnessing Miles's murder in the dining room of the manor.
In "Oh My Goddess - Part 1," when Phoebe and Paige were in Antarctica and Phoebe touched the scorchmarks left behind by Meta and Demetrius, it was implied that Phoebe had an astral flashback of the Titans escaping (since Phoebe described how she could feel the heat). Of course, we didn't actually see this flashback from Phoebe's perspective; they made Alyssa merely gasp and act out the flashback with her eyes closed.
And in "Used Karma," when Mata Hari first possessed Phoebe, Phoebe seemed to have an astral flashback where she experienced Mata Hari's execution firsthand (since Phoebe went skidding across the room, before Mata Hari woke up in Phoebe's body).
But you're right, they really missed a golden opportunity by failing to better utilize Phoebe's astral premonitions/flashbacks in the storyline.
I also like the idea of Phoebe remote-viewing from afar.
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Post by foxfire on Jul 14, 2007 13:18:16 GMT -5
There should have been more to her power though. She should have eventually been able to get a premonition whenever she wanted. Heck, Kira the Seer had more power than Phoebe ever did and she was only in three episodes.
Phoebe should have become as powerful as a Seer or Oracle by at least season five.
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Post by whitelightertony on Jul 14, 2007 22:27:55 GMT -5
Yes, but Kira (along with Debbi Morgan's Seer, and probably The Source's first Oracle from early-S4) had all been alive for hundreds of years each...Phoebe had less than a decade of magic under her belt.
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Post by foxfire on Jul 14, 2007 23:32:49 GMT -5
Hm... oh yeah... but think about it, it would be cool had Phoebe received ESP. That way she could be like "My Phoebe sense is tingling" just like Spider-Man!
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Post by marienomad on Jul 15, 2007 17:22:57 GMT -5
Isn't Preminitions a form of ESP?
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Post by foxfire on Jul 15, 2007 20:04:34 GMT -5
Yeah, ESP is very similar. Except, ESP is more or less a feeling. It's considered the "sixth sense" or whatnot. It would extend her powers into more of reality. Rather than shifting into this *gasp* thing that she goes through with a vision, she'd merely sense a vibe. It's very Spider-Man or Sailor Mars (from Sailor Moon).
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Post by vandergraafk on Jul 16, 2007 11:15:19 GMT -5
As someone who has seen A Witch in Time over 100 times, I am not certain that I share whitelightertony's statement that Phoebe demonstrated astral projection in this episode. She certainly did in Sympathy for the Demon where she astrally projected into Cole's former penthouse pad to confront Fear, now possessed of Cole's extraordinary powers.
I might add that it is tempting, but troubling to look at the evolution of powers in order to glean understanding. Premonition and empathy are probably easily related, and the evolutionary direction seems clear. Premonition and levitation seem completely unrelated. Premonition, empathy and the ability to re-direct energy balls by altering the conscious thoughts of demons (Used Karma) might work too. Is this what the Seer was able to do?
Still, Charmed does not always follow a logical path. Consider Piper's powers. From a physical perspective, it is a lot easier to understand the ability to particle accelerate than it is to figure out how Piper is able to cause particles to decelerate and give off the appearance of freezing. Indeed, if I were writing her character, I would have started with the power to particle accelerate first, then brought in the ability to particle decelerate.
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Post by foxfire on Jul 16, 2007 15:16:36 GMT -5
With Piper, I think it was neccessary for her to have the freezing power first. She needed a non-aggressive power to counteract with Prue's aggressive telekinesis and Phoebe's passive premonitions. I actually wonder why Constance M. Burge chose these powers (I'm assuming she picked them here).
By season three, I think it was a fluke that Phoebe got levitation and Piper got molecular combustion. Sure, Phoebe's power may be a completely new one that was given to her for no reason.
For Phoebe, it follows the same thing as characters like Superman and Wonder Woman. Their powers really have nothing to do with each other but they have them anyway. Mind you, at least Wonder Woman has an excuse (each power was given by a different goddess to her). This could be looked at the same way, the Elders could have given Phoebe that power.
Piper, on the other hand, it was pretty clear that the whole "slowing down molecules" thing was not what she did before. It was literally FREEZING people. I'm not familiar with physics or chemistry... but by slowing down molecules, could she really stop things in mid-air? Anyway, they had to re-write her powers to fit in this one.
I guess Prue lucked out with the powers that make sense.
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Post by whitelightertony on Jul 17, 2007 1:50:54 GMT -5
Rewatch the scene where Phoebe receives a premonition of Miles being attacked in the Halliwells' dining room.
When Phoebe has that particular premonition, we can clearly see it from Phoebe's firsthand P.O.V. - - we can even see Phoebe's hands protruding outward from Phoebe's line-of-vision, as she approaches the dining room.
This more than implies that Phoebe was astraling into her own future body at the moment in time when Miles would have otherwise died at the manor.
Now the other premonitions relating to Miles that Phoebe received in the episode appeared to be regular run-of-the-mill premonitions...but that one was undoubtedly an "astral premonition."
But that was actual astral projection, with nothing related to clairvoyance of any sort. And Phoebe enabled herself to astral project to Cole's penthouse due to either a spell or a potion (I forgot which one), making it only a temporary power of hers. Sort of like how Grams could temporarily harness the ability to freeze the girls when they were young and fighting (presumably, after their powers had been bound), even though Grams didn't regularly possess the ability to decelerate/suspend molecular particles.
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Post by vandergraafk on Jul 17, 2007 10:49:45 GMT -5
All right! You win. I will watch A Witch in Time again. Like that's torture!
And, foxfire, I agree that the ability to decelerate particles fit with Piper's shy, withdrawing personality. It was a fear reaction that prompted her to exhibit this power first. However, from a physical standpoint, it is much easier to accelerate particles than to slow them down (by a flick of the wrist). One could argue that Piper streams witch-energized protons from her wrist that bump into other particles and cause them to jiggle till instability is achieved. That's what gamma rays do to the cellular structure of the body and cause mutation and destruction of cells. Slowing down particles requires the removal of heat. As the organism has less and less energy in the form of heat, particle motion slows down and ceases just before absolute zero is reached. The resulting Bose-Einstein condensate is a different form of matter entirely. Piper never gets a warlock, demon or innocent to near absolute zero. But, she does reduce their bodily temperature enough to slow their motion down. No one is ever truly frozen. Nor does time itself ever freeze. (Another misconception introduced by Phoebe and fostered over and over for the first two seasons.) In early years, Piper's "freezes" actually caused the "victims" to be encased in ice. For example, Leo is "frozen" in Bride and Gloom. And, in that Season 3 episode, the dark priestess has her arm "frozen" and smashed to bits by warlock Piper!
From a scientific point of view, there is really no mechanism for explaining how Piper can remove heat without physically touching the "victim". That's what darklighters can do, a feat which was demonstrated in Season 1's Love Hurts.
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