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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2015 8:47:16 GMT -5
But WB is partly to blame with there demands. Interesting how much they wanted to change Charmed, yet as a Buffy/Angel fan, they never removed half the writing crew, and half were with the show for whole run. That's because Joss Whedon had FAR more creative control over his shows than either Connie or Kern ever did. Not only did he own his production company (Mutant Enemy), but he was also a critical darling, so the WB pretty much gave him free reign to do whatever. Unfortunately, that ended up costing the network Buffy in 2001 when Whedon demanded more money for the show than they could pay him.
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Post by West on Aug 8, 2015 8:54:17 GMT -5
But WB is partly to blame with there demands. Interesting how much they wanted to change Charmed, yet as a Buffy/Angel fan, they never removed half the writing crew, and half were with the show for whole run. That's because Joss Whedon had FAR more creative control over his shows than either Connie or Kern ever did. Not only did he own his production company (Mutant Enemy), but he was also a critical darling, so the WB pretty much gave him free reign to do whatever. Unfortunately, that ended up costing the network Buffy in 2001 when Whedon demanded more money for the show than they could pay him. Yes thats true that Joss was like that, it worked for well, but it didn't last. Again why Angel got canceled, he pushed didn't he for early renewal.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2015 10:02:44 GMT -5
Yes thats true that Joss was like that, it worked for well, but it didn't last. Again why Angel got canceled, he pushed didn't he for early renewal. It's hard to say exactly why Angel got cancelled, although I think the WB's shrinking budget might have had something to do with it. The network had begun its death spiral by the 2003-04 season, with the ratings nearly collapsing in Spring 2004. Being both an older show and a genre show, Angel was more expensive to produce than most of the WB's other shows; the network could no longer afford to keep it around. Of course, the bitter irony is that the two shows that took Angel's old timeslot in the 2004-05 season, The Mountain and Jack & Bobby, both ended up getting canned after only one season.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2015 11:38:51 GMT -5
The WB must have loved Kern. He was their yes-man. If they said "jump", Kern would say "How high?"
If they said the same thing to Whedon, he'd probably give them specific anatomical directions what they could do with themselves.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 4:47:39 GMT -5
bump! Any other jump the shark moments?
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Post by West on May 23, 2016 5:23:56 GMT -5
Well one common one as seen in discussions on here from time time is the third season being the first jump the shark moment especially with how many of us feel regarding Phoebe after Sleuthing...
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 10:12:13 GMT -5
I originally picked "Season 5," but I've since changed my answer to "After Prue Died." While I liked Paige and enjoyed her introduction, I absolutely hate what both Piper and Phoebe turned into after Prue died. While many fans think that they became hateable in Season 5, it was really Season 4 (especially in the case of Phoebe).
Heck, even before that there were hints of what Piper and Phoebe would eventually become (seen in Piper's Season 2/3 arc with Leo and Phoebe's Season 3 arc with Cole), but Prue's death was what finally pushed both into becoming whiny selfish hags.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 10:18:37 GMT -5
As you said, Betty, Prue's death forced Piper and Phoebe into roles they were never meant to play, and it damaged their characters beyond repair.
Mind you, it was not until Season Five started that the damage ramped up into high gear. It says something when you start rooting for the Warlocks and Demons.
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Post by Miranda Turner on Feb 21, 2017 2:54:46 GMT -5
Season 4 is where the story reached its peak and had a proper way of ending it at the time. Season 5 started the decline, and season 7 is when it recovered but by then it was too late.
Voted Season 5.
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Ruth Marie
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Post by Ruth Marie on Jun 26, 2017 7:46:06 GMT -5
Was going to vote season 5, but I voted After Prue died / Shannen Doherty left. But it had more to do with the writers who left the show and how the show was written, the sisters acted in some and the horrible plots which made no sense and not just based on Prue dying.
But definitely the turning point was season 5. But the show was beyond redemption by season 6, which is where it had no hope of returning. It did make a small recovering in season 7, but after that it went back down.
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Post by universalcharmed on Jul 5, 2017 14:44:09 GMT -5
It depends on when you started the show. If you started the show during the Paige Era then it never jumped the shark. If you started during the Prue Era then when Prue died.
The more Darker gritter seasons were 1-3 while the lighter more fun seasons were 4-8. If you were watching it because you liked Buffy and was looking for something similar than clearly you will feel like after season 3 it jumped the shark. However if you liked the world building and character building with a more family centered show then seasons 4-8 would have been the best to you and it probably would have never jumped the shark.
I personally don't ever feel like it jumped the shark. The only aspect in Season 6 I didn't like was Chris. I was fine with the storyline I just didn't like Chris.
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rebooted
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Post by rebooted on Jul 6, 2017 3:27:25 GMT -5
I honestly think its when Cole didn't stay dead after 4x20 Long Live the Queen. Prue's death at the beginning of Season was so final and real. And bringing Cole back in 4x22 just undid what we knew about what we thought was a final death.
Not being able to see Prue in 4x22 and in Season 5 in some form or another also confirmed the Jump the Shark.
"Seeing Prue right not... speaking to here... keeps her alive for you... which prevents you from moving on... to continue your destiny" - is what Grams said.
And I feel that by the end of Season 4, both Piper and Phoebe had moved on and Prue in some form needed to show up!
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Post by Elle Em on Jul 6, 2017 6:41:32 GMT -5
I voted for when Wyatt was born. A baby destroyed the concept of sisterhood. They no longer had the same bond as before, and they'd never get it back. It became all about Wyatt, and then later about Chris, and then the entire next generation and the future 20 years from now.
I'll always like Prue overall more than Paige, but I really liked Paige a lot. Season four had great characterization of Paige, and she fit right in. I thought the show was better with Prue, but with the right writing, it could survive without her.
I think a lot of the fairytale aspects were written into the show because there were now kids. We got some stupid episodes before Wyatt came along and before he was the center of attention, but those episodes were tolerable as long as they didn't become the majority. I don't know if Magic School would have even been a thing if one of the sisters didn't have kids. And we wouldn't have had episodes like a baby's toys coming to life if there had been no baby to begin with.
And I didn't vote for Cole leaving because Charmed was just fine without him for two whole seasons. I wish he had stayed, although who he was before the whole Source thing happened. Charmed was more interesting with Cole, but they didn't need him.
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Post by val1993 on Jul 31, 2017 11:20:57 GMT -5
Just started rewatching Season 4 a couple of days ago and was really surprised to see how quickly the show started going downhill which I didn't realise before! I mean, this season resembles Season 3 a lot in terms of its atmosphere, dynamic and story arcs and although Season 3 is far from being perfect, it's generally considered to be the best one. But now I see that 'Charmed' jumped the shark right in its Season 4 premiere and I'll tell you why.
The whole concept of sisterhood was completely screwed. Although Paige is a really likeable character and her introduction felt quite real and believable, she just didn't have such a strong sisterly bond with Piper and Phoebe like Prue did. How could they vanquish the Source if their bond as sisters was barely developing? You don't just lose one sister and replace her with another one, it takes years to build a solid and firm relationship with someone you never knew. It took Prue about two years to restore a normal relationship with Phoebe, and then with her own father. You don't just whip up a family. Thus the whole season 4 was supposed to be about Piper and Phoebe getting used to Paige. Just remember this episode.
Season 3, Episode 7 Power Outage
Prue: Belthazor is what happened.
Phoebe: What?
Piper: Abbreviated version, he used some underling spirit to enrage us and when we fought we lost our powers. No more triquetra, no more power of three.
Phoebe: What, we have no powers? But that means that...
Prue: That he's gonna try and come try kill us. Which, when you didn't come home, we thought that he had already...
Phoebe: No, it's okay, I'm fine. So what do we do? A spell, a vanquish, a potion?
Leo: You need to try and restore your bond as sisters.
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Post by val1993 on Jul 31, 2017 11:21:50 GMT -5
Another thing that really bugged me was... Alyssa's acting. I don't know why, but it just felt so cheesy right from the start of S4. Her pathetic portrayal of Paige in 'Enter the Demon' left so much to be desired, then Phoebe transformed into a desperate housewitch was just a big unbeliavable meh to me, not to mention a really lousy crying over Prue in 'Charmed Again' and her inability to properly play a middle sister. Now I'm starting to wonder if that's why Shannen had disputes with her: it was stated numerous times she can't stand someone who doesn't really care about his/her job which is probably what Alyssa had become by the start of Season 4.
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rebooted
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Post by rebooted on Jul 31, 2017 17:43:52 GMT -5
Another thing that really bugged me was... Alyssa's acting. I don't know why, but it just felt so cheesy right from the start of S4. Her pathetic portrayal of Paige in 'Enter the Demon' left so much to be desired, then Phoebe transformed into a desperate housewitch was just a big unbeliavable meh to me, not to mention a really lousy crying over Prue in 'Charmed Again' and her inability to properly play a middle sister. Now I'm starting to wonder if that's why Shannen had disputes with her: it was stated numerous times she can't stand someone who doesn't really care about his/her job which is probably what Alyssa had become by the start of Season 4. I think it's because Alyssa is a comedic actress which worked really well when she was the fun baby sister. But the more emotional she got, fans lost respect for her. I don't think that Alyssa was a good cryer or dramtic actress apart from LLtQueen. Alyssa played fun and evil better than all 4 actresses that was her talent and the writters should have leveraged off that in Season 4 a bit more while Piper and Cole remained the Hard characters.
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Ruth Marie
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Post by Ruth Marie on Jul 31, 2017 23:27:30 GMT -5
Another thing that really bugged me was... Alyssa's acting. I don't know why, but it just felt so cheesy right from the start of S4. Her pathetic portrayal of Paige in 'Enter the Demon' left so much to be desired, then Phoebe transformed into a desperate housewitch was just a big unbeliavable meh to me, not to mention a really lousy crying over Prue in 'Charmed Again' and her inability to properly play a middle sister. Now I'm starting to wonder if that's why Shannen had disputes with her: it was stated numerous times she can't stand someone who doesn't really care about his/her job which is probably what Alyssa had become by the start of Season 4. I think it's because Alyssa is a comedic actress which worked really well when she was the fun baby sister. But the more emotional she got, fans lost respect for her. I don't think that Alyssa was a good cryer or dramtic actress apart from LLtQueen. Alyssa played fun and evil better than all 4 actresses that was her talent and the writters should have leveraged off that in Season 4 a bit more while Piper and Cole remained the Hard characters. Yep, Alyssa has been in many other roles which used her talents as a comedic actress. It does make me wonder if Lori from the original pilot stayed, the series would be much more darker and serious. I did feel Alyssa did well in Morality Bites and funny enough the episode Shannen directed The Good, the Bad and the Cursed for those crying and dramatic scenes.
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Ruth Marie
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Post by Ruth Marie on Jul 31, 2017 23:32:02 GMT -5
Just started rewatching Season 4 a couple of days ago and was really surprised to see how quickly the show started going downhill which I didn't realise before! I mean, this season resembles Season 3 a lot in terms of its atmosphere, dynamic and story arcs and although Season 3 is far from being perfect, it's generally considered to be the best one. But now I see that 'Charmed' jumped the shark right in its Season 4 premiere and I'll tell you why. The whole concept of sisterhood was completely screwed. Although Paige is a really likeable character and her introduction felt quite real and believable, she just didn't have such a strong sisterly bond with Piper and Phoebe like Prue did. How could they vanquish the Source if their bond as sisters was barely developing? You don't just lose one sister and replace her with another one, it takes years to build a solid and firm relationship with someone you never knew. It took Prue about two years to restore a normal relationship with Phoebe, and then with her own father. You don't just whip up a family. Thus the whole season 4 was supposed to be about Piper and Phoebe getting used to Paige. Just remember this episode. Season 3, Episode 7Power OutagePrue: Belthazor is what happened. Phoebe: What? Piper: Abbreviated version, he used some underling spirit to enrage us and when we fought we lost our powers. No more triquetra, no more power of three. Phoebe: What, we have no powers? But that means that... Prue: That he's gonna try and come try kill us. Which, when you didn't come home, we thought that he had already... Phoebe: No, it's okay, I'm fine. So what do we do? A spell, a vanquish, a potion? Leo: You need to try and restore your bond as sisters. Yep as have many fans thought. Season 4 sadly being written as a possible final season thinking it might end. So many things made no sense. I think fan fiction stories really have written it better with a decent buildup. No way could the new power of three vanquish the Source after half a season. The original power of three, yes I buy that. This new set realistically it wouldn't be until the middle of season 5.
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rebooted
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Post by rebooted on Aug 1, 2017 0:13:49 GMT -5
Just started rewatching Season 4 a couple of days ago and was really surprised to see how quickly the show started going downhill which I didn't realise before! I mean, this season resembles Season 3 a lot in terms of its atmosphere, dynamic and story arcs and although Season 3 is far from being perfect, it's generally considered to be the best one. But now I see that 'Charmed' jumped the shark right in its Season 4 premiere and I'll tell you why. The whole concept of sisterhood was completely screwed. Although Paige is a really likeable character and her introduction felt quite real and believable, she just didn't have such a strong sisterly bond with Piper and Phoebe like Prue did. How could they vanquish the Source if their bond as sisters was barely developing? You don't just lose one sister and replace her with another one, it takes years to build a solid and firm relationship with someone you never knew. It took Prue about two years to restore a normal relationship with Phoebe, and then with her own father. You don't just whip up a family. Thus the whole season 4 was supposed to be about Piper and Phoebe getting used to Paige. Just remember this episode. Season 3, Episode 7Power OutagePrue: Belthazor is what happened. Phoebe: What? Piper: Abbreviated version, he used some underling spirit to enrage us and when we fought we lost our powers. No more triquetra, no more power of three. Phoebe: What, we have no powers? But that means that... Prue: That he's gonna try and come try kill us. Which, when you didn't come home, we thought that he had already... Phoebe: No, it's okay, I'm fine. So what do we do? A spell, a vanquish, a potion? Leo: You need to try and restore your bond as sisters. Yep as have many fans thought. Season 4 sadly being written as a possible final season thinking it might end. So many things made no sense. I think fan fiction stories really have written it better with a decent buildup. No way could the new power of three vanquish the Source after half a season. The original power of three, yes I buy that. This new set realistically it wouldn't be until the middle of season 5. PS That is one of my favourite episodes RM!
technically Cole and the Hollow aided the Charmed Ones being able to vanquish the Source. Plus you had 2 of the original Charmed Ones + half a whitelighter in Charmed And Dangeorous.
And it actually took a whole season to vanquish the Source fully in Womb Raidar, which also needed Cole's vulnerablilty (his human half) to vanquish the demon once and for all.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 1, 2017 6:32:37 GMT -5
Most of you are forgetting what "jump the shark" means. It's not a whole season (Season 5 shouldn't even be a choice) or a storyline, it's one specific shocking moment that changes the whole series into being about something it wasn't - like Fonzie water-skiing and suddenly jumping a shark turning "Happy Days" from a realistic family comedy into a very unrealistic show that was just all about Fonz and totally ignoring the family that the series was all about - the Cunninghams - which is how the whole idea got started.
And for me it still has to be seeing "Prudence Melinda" with something between "her" legs...or Phoebe and Cole seeing Paige orb...or Cole's eyes turning black. None of the other choices truly fit - not even Piper's death or Prue's death in 'All Hell Breaks Loose' since we'd seen them die before and then come back, so that wasn't that much different than what we'd seen before. Had Paige not been part of the series and Season Four be about Piper and Phoebe trying to continue without Prue, it still would've been Charmed. With Paige, it wasn't as the sisterhood that was so important to the show no longer meant anything, just like Cole's eyes turning black turned their destiny from protecting innocents into vanquishing the Source and Prudence Melinda turning into Wyatt made a show all about girl power suddenly all about women being useless without their men, all why I'll continue to insist that S4-8 is the alternate-universe spin-off "Witchlighter" which has next-to-nothing to do with "Charmed".
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