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Post by Sadrick on May 3, 2016 16:55:06 GMT -5
It's not just Phoebe whom I hold responsible for Cole's tragic demise. All of the others usually seemed prepared to throw him under the bus whenever the least bit of adversity reared its ugly head. They too didn't bother trying to understand Cole's predicament or how his flesh was embodying the Source. The notion of him having naturally regressed back to evil practice was a belief that was accepted at face value with no questions asked. What can be said about their temperament from that tidbit alone is that they're not exactly all too concerned about Cole's ultimate fate or circumstances. They just want him out of the way. Piper articulated this disgusting negligence best when her self-pitying state she demonised Cole as being this inhuman animal who she let loose on Phoebe and allowed to corrupt her, "She is my baby sister and I let him destroy her. That is not human nature, that is the nature of failure." Well I have to say this, the failure lies in your own ignorance and Phoebe's. If anything it was Phoebe who destroyed Cole. She allowed herself to be tempted by the Seer and as a result, destroyed Cole's last chance to free himself from the Source by killing the wizard in spite of his human side gradually defying the odds by retaking control of his mind and actions. Of course you're not going to hear any of the sisters acknowledge this error in judgement because it would disrupt their notion of being infallible beings who can do no wrong.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 17:17:43 GMT -5
It's not just Phoebe whom I hold responsible for Cole's tragic demise. All of the others usually seemed prepared to throw him under the bus whenever the least bit of adversity reared its ugly head. They too didn't bother trying to understand Cole's predicament or how his flesh was embodying the Source. The notion of him having naturally regressed back to evil practice was a belief that was accepted at face value with no questions asked. What can be said about their temperament from that tidbit alone is that they're not exactly all too concerned about Cole's ultimate fate or circumstances. They just want him out of the way. Piper articulated this disgusting negligence best when her self-pitying state she demonised Cole as being this inhuman animal who she let loose on Phoebe and allowed to corrupt her, "She is my baby sister and I let him destroy her. That is not human nature, that is the nature of failure." Well I have to say this, the failure lies in your own ignorance and Phoebe's. If anything it was Phoebe who destroyed Cole. She allowed herself to be tempted by the Seer and as a result, destroyed Cole's last chance to free himself from the Source by killing the wizard in spite of his human side gradually defying the odds by retaking control of his mind and actions. Of course you're not going to hear any of the sisters acknowledge this error in judgement because it would disrupt their notion of being infallible beings who can do no wrong. Couldn't have said it better myself. All of this is exactly why I don't rate Season 4 nearly as high as many other fans do. I absolutely loathed the way the sisters, especially Piper and Phoebe, dealt with Cole in the latter half of the season. They essentially sat back and let the Source destroy Cole, only to then turn around and blame him for it come Season 5. Even worse is the fact that the show very clearly wanted us to side with the sisters and their selfish ignorance. Realizing this has now made me outright hate the ending scene of "Long Live the Queen." That scene was literally nothing more than the show portraying Phoebe as this poor little victim, when she was anything but. The real victim of the tale was the one the sisters needlessly vanquished in the penthouse.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 23:41:02 GMT -5
This really was the turning point for the sisters. They stopped being the characters I loved and became the selfish creatures that felt that the world owed them something. Everyone else in the world can be guilty, but not them, never them. Cole be damned.
When he was on his God trip, Castiel probably killed more people than Cole ever did, but Dean still forgave him. He knew that Cas was hardly himself. When it seemed that Cas was dead, Dean mourned him. When Cas tuned up alive, Dean was happy to see him.
Dean never wanted to turn his back on Cas, and, when he did, he did so with reluctance.
Why couldn't Phoebe stand by Cole the way Dean stood by Cas.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 0:54:19 GMT -5
This really was the turning point for the sisters. They stopped being the characters I loved and became the selfish creatures that felt that the world owed them something. Everyone else in the world can be guilty, but not them, never them. Cole be damned. Maybe it really does all go back to Prue's death. After losing their big sister, Piper and Phoebe simply gave up on caring about the greater good and became more self-centered. Protecting innocents was what got Prue killed, after all, so why should they continue doing the same thing? In their minds, the only natural thing to do was for them to start putting themselves first, everyone else be damned. It neatly explains why it was mostly Piper and Phoebe, rather than Paige, who became a constant whiny, selfish pity party later on.
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Post by yinsoul on May 4, 2016 8:49:55 GMT -5
This really was the turning point for the sisters. They stopped being the characters I loved and became the selfish creatures that felt that the world owed them something. Everyone else in the world can be guilty, but not them, never them. Cole be damned. Maybe it really does all go back to Prue's death. After losing their big sister, Piper and Phoebe simply gave up on caring about the greater good and became more self-centered. Protecting innocents was what got Prue killed, after all, so why should they continue doing the same thing? In their minds, the only natural thing to do was for them to start putting themselves first, everyone else be damned. It neatly explains why it was mostly Piper and Phoebe, rather than Paige, who became a constant whiny, selfish pity party later on. This could have been a really interesting character study if it had been done deliberately!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 11:31:46 GMT -5
Paige did seem to be the only one who gave a damn about Innocents as the later seasons went on. Of course, she was mostly relegated to sub plots involving the Magical Community, so those were the Innocents she got stuck with.
Piper and Phoebe was all me, me, me.
Innocents? F*ck em! Piper has to yell at Leo about not having a normal life, and Phoebe has a baby daddy to find. Neither has time for Innocents anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 11:44:15 GMT -5
This could have been a really interesting character study if it had been done deliberately! That was the core problem with all of it. Not only was it NOT done deliberately, but it was very obvious that the show wanted us to actually ROOT for the sisters and excuse their bad behavior. We were "supposed" to see Cole as this evil monster who led poor little Phoebe astray rather than the victim of demonic possession that he actually was. We were "supposed" to see Phoebe as this innocent victim who got tricked into turning evil rather than someone who deliberately and selfishly chose the side of evil without even bothering to care about and help the man she supposedly loved. Just flat-out horrible writing.
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Post by magena on May 5, 2016 9:15:14 GMT -5
I may have seen an alternative Charmed, I never caught a will to make Cole as an evil monster and Phoebe as a poor victim Cole'character is very contradictory, and this is his charm, Phoebe' is genuinely sincere (in fact, she always blamed herself for being the Queen of Underworld) and this is her charm Cole made a choice, Phoebe made a choice, both have paid the consequences without complaint, but Cole hoped to start a new life with Phoebe, Phoebe had no intention to restart their relationship When we talk of love and relationships between couples we are talking about individual choices, not right or wrong choices or duties, a woman can love a man and not wanting to live with him and viceversa, it happens
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Post by Chrisaholic on May 5, 2016 9:35:21 GMT -5
I'm a bit torn. Yes, Phoebe and Cole chose alone to be King and Queen of the Underworld, yet in the later seasons I had the feeling Phoebe's role was then forgotten. Especially when Coop stepped in to find a new true love for her. It came out differently than it had happened. All was too rushed in my eyes, in S8. When Phoebe was in the underworld, you don't see her to be reminded of her role as Queen. Did you?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 11:07:51 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but no one is going to convince me that Phoebe was an innocent victim here. She became Queen of the Underworld by her own choice.
Besides, Phoebe can be evil too, even without Cole around. Cole wasn't there when she helped murder Rick, right?
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Post by Chrisaholic on May 5, 2016 12:52:14 GMT -5
That she wasn't for sure but the authors seemed to have forgotten when writing the later seasons. Phoebe is all but innocent!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 16:39:09 GMT -5
That's the problem in a nutshell, Jana. BOTH Cole and Phoebe played roles in what happened in Season Four. However, Cole gets punished and Phoebe gets off scot free?
What the hell, Kern?
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Post by sol on May 6, 2016 0:23:46 GMT -5
I may have seen an alternative Charmed, I never caught a will to make Cole as an evil monster and Phoebe as a poor victim Cole'character is very contradictory, and this is his charm, Phoebe' is genuinely sincere (in fact, she always blamed herself for being the Queen of Underworld) and this is her charm Cole made a choice, Phoebe made a choice, both have paid the consequences without complaint, but Cole hoped to start a new life with Phoebe, Phoebe had no intention to restart their relationship When we talk of love and relationships between couples we are talking about individual choices, not right or wrong choices or duties, a woman can love a man and not wanting to live with him and viceversa, it happens I saw the same shpw, magena, maybe because I love Charmed
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2016 23:52:06 GMT -5
We ALL love Charmed, or none of us would be here.
However, the later seasons do not stack up well when compared to the earlier ones, IMO. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 0:01:24 GMT -5
We ALL love Charmed, or none of us would be here. However, the later seasons do not stack up well when compared to the earlier ones, IMO. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel. I agree. One should not have to mindlessly love everything about the show to be a "real fan." There's nothing wrong with critiquing the show's flaws and wishing it could've been better. That's what true fandom is, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 11:19:05 GMT -5
I agree. Being a fan doesn't mean you have to be a brain dead dittohead that blindly accepts whatever crap they shovel out.
If I think they're producing junk, I'm gonna call them out on it, plain and simple.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jun 17, 2016 21:45:14 GMT -5
You do realize that the Halliwells rarely paid the price for their actions. Right?
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Post by Chrisaholic on Jun 18, 2016 7:51:10 GMT -5
True. Consequences were off for them, it seems. As they said, they'd done enough to ignore their Wiccan life and concentrate on their private one. That doesn't suit with me. If that happened, the Halliwells should never have been the Charmed Ones to begin with.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 21:16:18 GMT -5
True. Consequences were off for them, it seems. As they said, they'd done enough to ignore their Wiccan life and concentrate on their private one. That doesn't suit with me. If that happened, the Halliwells should never have been the Charmed Ones to begin with. And, yet, they still chose to keep their powers the one time they were actually given an opportunity to give them up and live the "normal" lives they so desired. The sisters completely lost the right to complain about their lives as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2016 14:49:50 GMT -5
It seems all too clear to me that Cole is considered the villain and Phoebe considers turning evil to be something that was done to her.
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