WAS SEASON EIGHT AS GOOD AS THE OTHER SEASONS?

[pubesy]

take some advice from the stones!

you cant always get what you want!

[vandergraafk]

I've not had the chance to read all of the other entries. I'll start with my own take on Season 8. However else one looks at Season 8, it should be compared to seasons 4 and 6. Why?

In each of these seasons, a major new character was introduced. As others have noted - and Brad Kern has acknowledged - Season 4 had two important tasks. The first was to finish the Source story arc. Whether Prue or Paige had been present, it is most likely that the arc would have concluded on the same note. The second task was to introduce Paige to us as a major character. This required some modular episodes devoted exclusively to fleshing out Paige. Thus, we have A Knight to Remember, Size Matters, A Paige from the Past. Had Prue been present, at least two of these episodes would have been moot. (Size Matters would have been salvageable had Phoebe had a premonition about the house next door.)

As many of you know, it really took a long time for Paige to fully unfold. For me, Season 5 really marks the establishment of Paige as a fully viable character. She takes charge almost immediately from A Witch's Tail.

Season 6 introduces another major character, Chris, who actually is a holdover from the final episode pair of Season 5 (Oh My Goddess). As we have noted in other threads, there is a disjunction between Chris in Season 5 and Chris in Season 6, but that's not the point here. It took virtually the whole season for us really to get to know Chris. And, then he was gone! I'm sure many were disappointed.

Season 8 introduces us to another major character Billie who easily could have stayed with the sisters for several seasons, a foreshadowing we have in Forever Charmed. Where Season 8 fails - in one crucial respect - is that the transformation of Billie from Charmed helper to the ultimate power is too rushed and too poorly developed in terms of motivation and plot. Thus, the Ultimate Battle fails to persuade as the final contest between good and evil. Nor do we ever really accept why Billie turns on the Charmed Ones. Much more was required. Unfortunately, that would have required a Season 9.

Had I Season 8 to do over, obviously I would not have dispatched Leo to the ice box. (And, I would have been subject to immense pressure from the WB to cut costs!) After all, in Vaya Con Leos, we are told that Leo must leave because his presence will distract the Charmed Ones from concluding the Ultimate Battle in their favor.

Think about how problematic that thesis is. When had Leo ever distracted the Charmed Ones from focusing on the issue at hand? Never. True, in Blinded by the Whitelighter, Leo thought that his presence was preventing the Charmed Ones from tacking the threat posed by Eames. But was he really? Indeed, a case can be made that Leo's presence focused Piper's thoughts in Kill Billie, Volume 2, as well as in Forever Charmed.

In other words, for Season 8 to work conceptually it needed more time for Billie to emerge in order to present her as a credible threat to the Charmed Ones. And, just maybe this could have been done in a way that would have examined the moral authority of the Charmed Ones in the wake of the Avatar experiment and the unique "challenge" posed by a mature Wyatt.

Now, I imagine - before reading your contributions - that some do not like the writing. It was especially weak at times during this season. Some episodes fall way too flat: 12 Angry Zen and Repo Manor. Some are incredibly beautiful though: the aforementioned Vaya Con Leos, Payback's a Witch, the Last Temptation of Christy, Rewitched, Lost Picture Show.

Sometimes, Season 8 seems to muddle too much Charmedverse. Mid-season 8, we are introduced to Charmed power (Repo Manor). What the heck is that? New concept? We've already seen Paige turned into a nitwit in Desperate Housewitches when she can't remember how she helped vanquish the Source. We have the potentially useful, but ultimately dissatisfying mirror witches of Repo Manor, a show that seems to recycle way too closely The Power of Three Blondes, and lamely suggests that these slave demons have been studying the witches for 8 years! Now, if they had been plants by the Triad and the one had complained about having had to switch from imitating Prue to focusing on Paige, then I might have been more impressed.

Vengeance, I find your criticism way too over the top. It's easy to find Brad Kern episodes that are dazzle in their brilliance and charm. You might question some of the story arc decisions that were made. But, if you do, then you need to consider the outside pressures that affected these story arcs. The Avatar story arc was altered and delayed by the exit of Cole. The story arcs concerning Leslie and Dex were foisted on Kern by the WB. Frankly, I would have loved to have had Chris continue on into Season 7 and attack the Avatar story arc differently. Such was not to be.

[Black Roses]

Charmed fizzled out by season 8. The fact that they took Leo out for most of the season totally sucked and then they took Darryl out completely; only to bring in Billie and Christy. Kaley Couco sucked in a serious role. She's better at comedy for sure. In 8 Simple Rules, she was hilarious and in The Big Bang Theory, she's hilarious, but as a more serious role like that, she bombed BIG TIME. As for Christy, I didn't like her period. Bringing in Dex was horrible, since Jason Lewis is kind of creepy. I liked the fact that it ended and everybody was happy and married, but the fact that Paige and Phoebe were shoved up to the alter was really lame. It took like three seasons for Piper and Leo to get married, but only a few episodes for Phoebe and Paige? Not realistic. Then, we didn't have that much sisterly love, only a getting Leo back obsessed Piper, a searching for love when it's right in front of her Phoebe and not that much of Paige at all. There was too much of the whole Billie and Christy thing. And in my opinion, that was the worst storyline since Buffy's fourth season storyline.

All in all, season eight was the worst.

[whitelightertony]

Think about how problematic that thesis is. When had Leo ever distracted the Charmed Ones from focusing on the issue at hand? Never. True, in Blinded by the Whitelighter, Leo thought that his presence was preventing the Charmed Ones from tacking the threat posed by Eames. But was he really? Indeed, a case can be made that Leo's presence focused Piper's thoughts in Kill Billie, Volume 2, as well as in Forever Charmed.

I think the Angel of Destiny meant that, had the Charmed Ones continued with their lives with Leo also remaining present, the rise of Billie and Christy would have been so out of left field for them that it would have completely blindsided and destroyed the Halliwells.

Whereas, with Leo gone, the Charmed Ones knew they had a monumental upcoming battle on the horizon. Due to Leo's absence, they were more easily able to realize that Billie and Christy were that "Final Battle"...maybe not as quickly as they should have realized it, but quickly enough so that they could triumph in the end.

[pubesy]

maybe it was destiny all along that piper was supposed to make a deal with the angel of destiny to "save" leo all along. maybe piper needed to be so focused on saving leo so that christie could blame the charmed ones lack of focus on protecting "good" on piper trying to save leo. hence forcing billie to agree. and go up against the charmed ones.

had leo just died, piper would have been mourning, and not so actively intent on saving leo, as he was dead. piper may not have cared so much about the upcoming battle. as she would have felt she had already lost.

[vandergraafk]

To be honest, we don't know how long it took for Phoebe and Coop to marry. Their marriage was a part of the future that Phoebe wrote down in the Book of Shadows. We do not exactly see this in real time.

Paige, on the other hand, did get married rather quickly. However, can you fault her? Henry was quite the catch and the Elders were not going to interfere at all!

[pubesy]

i am pretty sure the boys were there. and they were both still toddlers!

[whitelightertony]

had leo just died, piper would have been mourning, and not so actively intent on saving leo, as he was dead. piper may not have cared so much about the upcoming battle. as she would have felt she had already lost.

I think just the opposite would have happened. If Leo had fully died, Piper might have turned into the vigilante Alternate Piper we saw in "Centennial Charmed."

Perhaps Piper's take-no-prisoners view of the world (to protect her sons) would have caused Piper to get her sisters to defeat Billie and Christy even quicker than they did in the actual reality of the Charmedverse?

To be honest, we don't know how long it took for Phoebe and Coop to marry. Their marriage was a part of the future that Phoebe wrote down in the Book of Shadows. We do not exactly see this in real time.

According to the Book of Three: Vol. 2, Coop and Phoebe marry sometime in the Fall of 2006. But they could have easily had another wedding, several months later, for their mortal friends.

[pubesy]

BUT vigilante Piper would be killing every demon page by page without any rationale or reason, other than to protect her sons from turning evil. she could have been completely blind to billie turning. she would not have been able to think strategically.

OR

she would have been way too quick to try to vanquish billie, phoebe would not have had a chance to talk to billie, and piper would have attempted to kill billie too soon. billie would have never agreed to help the charmed ones stop christie in the end.

[whitelightertony]

BUT vigilante Piper would be killing every demon page by page without any rationale or reason, other than to protect her sons from turning evil. she could have been completely blind to billie turning. she would not have been able to think strategically.

OR

she would have been way too quick to try to vanquish billie, phoebe would not have had a chance to talk to billie, and piper would have attempted to kill billie too soon. billie would have never agreed to help the charmed ones stop christie in the end.

I think that Vigilante Piper would have become inconsolable, and eventually, Phoebe, Paige, and Billie would have realized they need to stay out of her way or they might get run over by her. Billie still would have tracked Christy down on her own.

Piper would be so overcome with anger that every little suspicious thing a magical creature might do would be just cause, in her mind, for a vanquish.

Thus, the very moment Piper suspected Christy of having any darker agenda, she would have (at the very least) taken out Christy (and perhaps Billie, along with her), thus destroying the Ultimate Power before Billie even had the chance to contemplate turning against the Halliwells.

[pubesy]

true, true. or she may have not been so welcoming of christie into her home in the first place

[chamedlover]

its wasn't the best season.
possibly the worst.
it did have some boring episodes but the starting and ending were pretty good.
i cant even pick which one is my fave.
probably the first because it wasn't the ending

[~B@MeLiSsA30@B~]

I've never been a HUGE fan of S8, but I watched it a couple days ago & listen to them talk during the episode, & a lot of things make sense why they did what they did in S8. I don't dislike it like I did. It's still not as good as the other seasons, but it's still good for what they had to work with.

[vandergraafk]

What we might debate is Season 2 versus Season 8. That, for me, remains a toss-up. Season 2 had some great episodes; it also had some dogs. Same applies to Season 8. What do you think? 2 or 8?

[Reality Bites]

I have to say visually - special effects and resolution - season 8 is better. However, in terms of story structure, I prefer the episodic nature of season 2 to the half-baked season arc of season 8.

[vandergraafk]

Are we referring to the half-baked Ultimate Battle? If so, I agree.
At least, Season 2 was building towards something. I don't know what the Ultimate Battle was trying to prove, except that maybe we get to see the manor blasted to pieces, mourn the loss of Phoebe, wonder why Piper didn't seem to care about Paige and ponder the fate of Christy!

[alyssa24]

A ll i keep thinking is WHY CHRISTIE HAD TO COME AND RUIN CHARMED!

[vandergraafk]

Because Brad Kern was enthused by the idea of sister versus sister. He needed a sister; hence, we got Christy!

[pipercharmedphreak]

vandergraafk said:

Because Brad Kern was enthused by the idea of sister versus sister. He needed a sister; hence, we got Christy!

In theory, sister versus sister could have been a great storyline. It would have challenged the basis of what Charmed was about (at least in the beginning)- family and sisterhood. However, the idea was shot. Especially having Billie as a regular. The idea of Billie and Christy would have been better to me if it had only taken up a portion of last season. Instead we got the Jenkins being the Ultimate Battle. Too bad. It could have been quite interesting to see this idea well developed.

[vandergraafk]

On balance, your point reflects mine. For this idea to work, we would have needed a Season 9 - and Leo!