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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 13:51:20 GMT -5
I agree that Billie wasn't that much of a bimbo, but the way Chris was Brad Kern's Gary Stu, Billie was his Mary Sue, when in the final season, the stars should've been the Charmed Ones, Charmed Ones we admired and loved, not ones who we pitied (and in my case, hated). Like fanfic characters whose creators use them to pretend that they are Halliwells, most Gary Stu/Mary Sue characters usually irritate everyone except for their creator There are exceptions, but not many. In this case, Billie irritated most fans because we knew she was being set up for her own spin-off, and she was the one starring in a season that truly should've starred the Charmed Ones. Oh, I certainly agree with that. Billie was definitely written as an all-powerful Mary Sue who was better than the Charmed Ones, and sadly, she really was. As I said, had the sisters been stronger, more likeable characters, themselves, Billie might not have upstaged them so badly. As someone who's sort-of familiar with Charmed fandom from years ago, however, I can tell you that one big reason Billie was hated so much was not because she wasn't a Charmed One, but because she wasn't Chris. I still remember all of the moaning at TWoP and the old Charmed Sons board about how Billie was "stealing" the spinoff opportunity that should've gone to Chris & Wyatt, and so on. Most of those people left the fandom years ago, so you don't hear about them as much, but Billie still carries the stigma. I will always say that had Season Eight been used as the plot for Season Six, with Season Seven as the last season (with no mention of Big Chris or Big Wyatt), I wouldn't have minded Billie half as much. I agree with you on that. I actually saw a really good Billie idea on another site: They're putting Billie in Season 5 instead of Season 6, but they have the same general idea. Billie and Christy would've worked a lot better as innocents that needed to be saved, rather than another damn "Ultimate Power." |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 22, 2014 15:17:14 GMT -5
Oh, I totally love all of those ideas! That so would've rocked!
And you're also totally right regarding Billie's spin-off as compared to The Charmed Sons. I remember those fans thinking that Christy was named that as a slap in the fact to them, when she was just given that name so they could have an episode called "The Last Temptation of Christy", the way Billie got her name from "Kill Billie" and Chris got his from "ChrisCrossed". What they didn't understand is that according to his website, Drew Fuller didn't want to play Chris any more (he said he no longer wanted to play a boy), and it would be hard to do The Charmed Sons without him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 18:17:21 GMT -5
And you're also totally right regarding Billie's spin-off as compared to The Charmed Sons. I remember those fans thinking that Christy was named that as a slap in the fact to them, when she was just given that name so they could have an episode called "The Last Temptation of Christy", the way Billie got her name from "Kill Billie" and Chris got his from "ChrisCrossed". What they didn't understand is that according to his website, Drew Fuller didn't want to play Chris any more (he said he no longer wanted to play a boy), and it would be hard to do The Charmed Sons without him. Neither Brad Kern or the WB ever expressed any interest in the Charmed Sons idea. Even though the show's ratings actually went up in Season 6 (at a time when most WB shows were seeing falling ratings), they still killed Chris off at the end of the season and dropped the storyline completely in Season 7. It's never been clear why they never saw any viability in the idea, although some have suggested that the network wanted to use a Charmed spinoff to fill the "girl power" void left by Buffy (Birds of Prey tried and failed), while others feel that Kern and the WB just wanted a show that could provide "Jiggle TV" fanservice for horny straight dudes. At this point, we'll never truly know. Of course, the show ended in such a way that any kind of spinoff wouldn't work without it sucking, especially a show about Wyatt and Chris or any other Halliwells. Many have suspected that Kern may have thrown that awful flash-forward into "Forever Charmed" for this exact purpose, possibly as "revenge" for not getting his Mermaid and Billie shows. TV Tropes calls it "Torch the Franchise and Run": tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TorchTheFranchiseAndRun |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 22, 2014 18:28:20 GMT -5
"Torch the Franchise and Run".....
Hehehehehe! Totally adore that!
I've always prayed for a TV movie that would prove that "Forever Crap", I mean, "Forever Piper", I mean "Forever Charmed" was just Piper's delusion while she and the other two experienced 8-year comas - putting a huge age difference between Wyatt and Chris and any other child who might show up later on - and NOW we get to find out what *really* happened...
*sigh* Of course with what happened with the comics, that probably won't happen.
But I can still dream...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 19:00:29 GMT -5
I've always prayed for a TV movie that would prove that "Forever Crap", I mean, "Forever Piper", I mean "Forever Charmed" was just Piper's delusion while she and the other two experienced 8-year comas - putting a huge age difference between Wyatt and Chris and any other child who might show up later on - and NOW we get to find out what *really* happened... *sigh* Of course with what happened with the comics, that probably won't happen. But I can still dream... I love that idea, too. The finale was awful, one of the worst episodes of the entire show, if not *the* worst. The time travel plot was stupid, and way too much time was spent shoving every guest star they could afford into the final few minutes. And, the flash-forward was St. Elsewhere levels of bad, enough to make me hurl things across the room. Bleh, why couldn't have "Witch Way Now" or "Something Wicca This Way Goes" been the real finale, instead?  The comics aren't canon, so I wouldn't worry too much about them. While there is a chance that someone would use them as a launching pad for a movie (and thus, make them canon), they could just as easily be Jossed by someone else (like, what happened to the Star Wars novels recently: mmgn.com/xboxone/articles--35-years-of-star-wars-eu-stories-dead). |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 22, 2014 23:32:30 GMT -5
I suppose they had to do that so the many Star War fans who read the novels (me being one of them...) wouldn't be upset when the movies didn't follow those plotlines. Disappointing - I really liked that whole timeline that they came up with.
Back on topic, oh, I'm so glad to find someone else who agrees with me that the comics are not canon. Hopefully if there's ever a TV movie (I do *not* want a blockbuster theatre movie with all sorts of special effects ruining it the way they ruined Star Wars and Star Trek), someone (can anyone say Shannen? I'm sure she'd want Prue to look like *her* and not someone else!) would refuse to be part of it unless they got rid of the "sappily ever after"....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2014 1:14:04 GMT -5
I suppose they had to do that so the many Star War fans who read the novels (me being one of them...) wouldn't be upset when the movies didn't follow those plotlines. Disappointing - I really liked that whole timeline that they came up with. Back on topic, oh, I'm so glad to find someone else who agrees with me that the comics are not canon. Hopefully if there's ever a TV movie (I do *not* want a blockbuster theatre movie with all sorts of special effects ruining it the way they ruined Star Wars and Star Trek), someone (can anyone say Shannen? I'm sure she'd want Prue to look like *her* and not someone else!) would refuse to be part of it unless they got rid of the "sappily ever after".... That's the thing about "extended universes" of movies and TV shows, even if they're entirely consistent with what was shown onscreen, they'll still always be a secondary canon, at best. Novels and comics rarely have the same reach as a movie or TV series, so they're never going to count as much. (It's sad what happened to the Star Wars novels, however.) The Charmed comics will never be canon because nobody who was involved with the show is involved with them. They're officially-licensed fanfiction, and nothing more. That doesn't mean you can't like them, but don't try to treat them as canon when they aren't. If a movie gets made, the screenwriter has no obligation to follow the comics, and chances are, they won't. And, I wouldn't worry about a blockbuster movie, Esmeralda. Charmed isn't Veronica Mars, and none of its leads are Kristen Bell. The show isn't anywhere near popular enough to make a feature film viable. |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 23, 2014 9:39:29 GMT -5
*heavy sigh of relief* VERY happy to hear that!
I agree with you totally and although I wouldn't complain if they did follow parts of the comics, especially in the characterizations of the characters - so much better than what they were like during Seasons 5-8, with the fact that all three are now mothers as a viable reason for the changes of the characters - and would much rather have Paul Ruditis in charge than Connie Burge or Brad Kern - if they figured a way to make "Forever Charmed" nothing but a dream, I would be a very happy Charmed fan!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2014 12:51:51 GMT -5
if they figured a way to make "Forever Charmed" nothing but a dream, I would be a very happy Charmed fan! I think most of us would. I tend to hate "happily ever after" epilogues on principle (the one from the last Harry Potter book similarly made me hurl), but "Forever Charmed" takes the cake for being one of the worst. Giving Phoebe and Paige (and possibly, Piper) all 3 kids each is something straight out of the depths of FF.net, and did they not realize the implications of framing the entire series as nothing but the story of an old, senile Piper? You've seen Obscurus Lupa's reviews of the show, right? She was 100% right about the finale. |
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Post by Chrisaholic on Aug 24, 2014 6:14:31 GMT -5
A "happily ever after" ending to want just comes from our love to fairy tales which we were told as children.  It's somehow naturally that TV shows go into that field as well, but for some interaction a cliffhnger is always good.  |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 25, 2014 23:27:36 GMT -5
You are absolutely right about that!
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Post by thedinosaurking on Oct 28, 2015 23:06:59 GMT -5
season 8 was garbage to be honest.
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Post by sol on Oct 29, 2015 11:33:43 GMT -5
I think the worst was season seven
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2015 23:57:50 GMT -5
Lupa was right when she said that the flash forward looked like someone's fan fiction that was accidentally filmed.
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Post by adzpower on Oct 30, 2015 10:30:33 GMT -5
One of the many reasons I just can't watch season 8 anymore. That flash-forward scene was just garbage.
When you think of how cool and dark Charmed started like and then seeing how cheesy and unwatchable it ended up being, sigh, it just makes my soul cry.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 11:25:13 GMT -5
The writers of Charmed always seemed to be operating like it was the 1950's, and that flash forward sure proved that beyond a doubt. All of them happily married with kids. Just add the white picket fences, the ice cream trucks going by, and the Halliwell's become no different that the Cleaver's or the Nelson's.
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Post by sol on Nov 2, 2015 11:09:03 GMT -5
One of the many reasons I just can't watch season 8 anymore. That flash-forward scene was just garbage. When you think of how cool and dark Charmed started like and then seeing how cheesy and unwatchable it ended up being, sigh, it just makes my soul cry. I agree but it's a fact that most of the fans call for the happy ending,even if botched as it happened with Gilmore Girls |
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Post by lilchi7212 on Nov 10, 2015 21:26:01 GMT -5
Yet we did see Piper and Leo as an old couple, so why not the others? Plus, it'd have made more sense if they wrote their entries at this age in the BoS. B/C Alyssa and Rose had other things going on so that's why they focused more on Piper's character at the end. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 12:44:35 GMT -5
I think in season 8 there really is a feeling of "didn't we finish this already?" throughout. Rehashed plots, very lazy writing and lots of phoned in performances. Lackadaisical seems like the right word to describe it.
I think there are worse individual episodes than in season 8 (although I am about to review Battle of the Hexes, so maybe don't quote me on that), but the season as a whole feels incredibly tired and dragged out to me.
Of course it's entirely possible that I'm projecting my frustrations onto the screen. Knowing that they once again had a decent series ending and didn't have the sense to go out with the slightest microscopic shred of dignity intact.
The way they'd been spiraling since season 5, finishing with the Zankou arc really was there last chance at ending on something of a high note, in my opinion... but nope, can't have that; there's still a tiny bit of that horse left to beat into the ground.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 16:02:47 GMT -5
I think in season 8 there really is a feeling of "didn't we finish this already?" throughout. Rehashed plots, very lazy writing and lots of phoned in performances. Lackadaisical seems like the right word to describe it. I think there are worse individual episodes than in season 8 (although I am about to review Battle of the Hexes, so maybe don't quote me on that), but the season as a whole feels incredibly tired and dragged out to me. Of course it's entirely possible that I'm projecting my frustrations onto the screen. Knowing that they once again had a decent series ending and didn't have the sense to go out with the slightest microscopic shred of dignity intact. The way they'd been spiraling since season 5, finishing with the Zankou arc really was there last chance at ending on something of a high note, in my opinion... but nope, can't have that; there's still a tiny bit of that horse left to beat into the ground. You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Everything about Season 8 felt rushed and tired, from the lazy writing, to the wooden acting, and the horrendously cheap production. Of course, what else could you expect from a season that was only produced out of default? Nobody really wanted another season of Charmed, and the only reason it even happened was because the then-dying WB had nothing to replace the show with. Just about all of the WB's new shows that season bombed (Jack & Bobby, The Mountain, The Starlet), and they wanted to hang on to what few veterans they had left, even if they could no longer afford it. That's why Charmed was just tossed on the air with a gutted budget and a half-hearted mandate to crank out a spinoff by any means possible. Under those kinds of conditions, Season 8 was just never going to be good, to be realistic. As you get later into your rewatch, you'll probably notice the season start to feel very sloppy and rushed. It seems that after they learned in January 2006 that A) The Billie Show wasn't happening, and B) Charmed was over, they rushed through the rest of the plot and scrambled to tie everything up at the last minute. Tim has pointed out that it felt like they were being evicted from the Paramount lot by a certain date. Also, enjoy seeing P3 while you can in "Battle of the Hexes," because I believe that episode was its final appearance. The nuked budget made the network-mandated musical guests prohibitively expensive, so P3 became expendable in Season 8. Rumor has it that the sets were torn down midway through the season for Phoebe's loft. |
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It's somehow naturally that TV shows go into that field as well, but for some interaction a cliffhnger is always good. 
