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Post by ~Andrew~ on Nov 16, 2008 0:26:29 GMT -5
lot oh well. Yea Kern is pretty retarted lol  |
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Post by marienomad on Nov 16, 2008 1:42:38 GMT -5
Oh, how I wish that Phoebe would be more like Season One and Two... she was so into the craft. I bet that she doesn't even let the Newspaper know about that fact. I can understand the fact that she can't let them know that she has super powers but she could at least say that she was a Wicca.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Nov 16, 2008 11:29:50 GMT -5
But are they? I never believed it. I believe they were raised Christian by Grams so they wouldn't know that they are witches and they simply use Wicca to explain their powers; they believe in God, not the Goddess. And they had to, or the WB wouldn't let them be on the air. It's why they never cast a protective circle, call to the elements or do all the other things that I've read that true Wiccans do.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Nov 16, 2008 23:46:59 GMT -5
They used Wicca to explain their powers?
This only tells me that Burge, Kern and their writers knew squat about Wicca. Even worse, they didn't bother to really learn anything.
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 3, 2009 12:10:45 GMT -5
No. It tells you that if they did or would, the networks wouldn't allow it, so why try? There are no TV shows that truly show Wiccans as Wiccans, the same reason why you'll never see a show that truly shows devil-worshippers (not the same as Wiccans) or the Ku Klux Khan as good guys. This is the reason why. Be angry at the networks and the censors not Connie and Kern. There's a lot of reasons to be angry at him. This isn't one of them.
And before you say so, no, I don't put all of those in the same category, but a lot of the higher-ups and censors do. Hence the reason they won't allow such things to be shown. Goes against the First Amendment? Yes, but that's a discussion for the In-Depth Discussion board, not here, especially not in Phoebe's thread.
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Post by Piper Sorelli Halliwellღ on Sept 3, 2009 18:17:08 GMT -5
Oh that makes sense now. But I noticed in the first episode at the very beginning the witch cast a protective circle and also when Phoebe was telling Prue about witches she talked about the wiccan rede saying 'An it harm none, do what ye will." Which is actually correct. And then in season two in Witch Trial Phoebe tells the sisters, "And not just because it’s our anniversary but because it falls on one of the most powerful wiccan days of the year. The autumnal equinox. Now, according to this witch that I met today at the bookstore..." That's just a few things that I remember, and why they made them out to actually being Wiccan at first and then not really after as the show progressed never really made sense to me.
And why wouldn't the network allow it?
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 3, 2009 22:21:04 GMT -5
 Obviously the show snuck those things under the radar and then the censors got more finicky, especially once you got past the pilot episode. The spell that Phoebe chants that brings back their power is also based on the full Wiccan rede: The Wiccan Rede (Long form)
It is also known as The Rede of the Wiccae and the Witches' Creed
Generally credited to Doreen Valiente
"Hear now the word of the Witches, the secrets we hid in the night,
When dark was our destiny's pathway, That now we bring forth in the light.
Mysterious Water and Fire, The Earth and the wide-ranging Air,
By hidden Quintessence we know Them, and we will keep silent and dare.
The birth and rebirth of all Nature, the passing of Winter and Spring,
We share with the life Universal, rejoice in the Magical Ring
Four times in the year the Great Sabbat, returns, and the Witches are seen,
At Lammas and Candelas dancing, on May Eve and old Halloween
When daytime and nighttime are equal, when sun is at greatest and least,
The four lesser Sabbats are summoned, again Witches gather in feast.
Thirteen silver moons in a year are, thirteen is the Covens array,
Thirteen times at Esbat make merry, for each golden year and a day.
The power has passed down the ages, each time between woman and man
Each century unto the other, ere times and the ages began.
When drawn is the Magickal circle, by sword or athame of power,
Its compass between two worlds lies, in the land of shades of that hour.
Our world has no right to know it, and the world beyond will tell naught,
The oldest of Gods are invoked there, the great work of Magic is wrought.
For two are the mystical pillars, that stand at the gate of the shrine,
And two are the powers of Nature, the forms and the forces divine.
And do what thou wilt be the challenge, so be it in love that harms none,
For this is the only commandment, By Magick of old be it done.
Eight words the Witches Rede fulfill:
If it Harms none, Do what Thou Will!"
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Post by Piper Sorelli Halliwellღ on Sept 4, 2009 18:07:05 GMT -5
Hmm.. well I think they just should of left all the Wicca stuff out if they knew that stuff wasn't going to be going anywhere in future episodes!
Wow that's really interesting, I never knew that the spell they used to receive their powers was based of that!
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 4, 2009 23:27:31 GMT -5
They probably didn't know that they wouldn't be able to sneak it under. That happens often enough with other shows.
No, I didn't either until I saw it at a different site, but I think it's pretty cool.
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Post by powerof5 on Sept 5, 2009 14:13:06 GMT -5
Phoebe loves was strong that it made a her heart a little lazy. And i can see where she coming from. And Phoebe is my favorite so
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 5, 2009 14:33:06 GMT -5
Well, just because she's your favorite, don't think she can't do anything wrong! That's what makes a character interesting--perfection is boring.
And Phoebe's love for Cole wasn't love. It was just obsession. And her love for Coop came from the possibility of getting to have the daughter she wanted so much.
That obsession and that desire for a child were very, VERY strong. But they weren't love.
That's why the title for this thread is "Phoebe: Love is the hardest magic of all"--it was something her powers couldn't give her and something she never found because she never learned how to love herself first. If she had, she wouldn't have settled just for lust.
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Post by SidneyAce on Sept 5, 2009 16:03:38 GMT -5
Personally i was never a big fan of Phoebe& Cole's storylines in the third season. I never believed that it was love. I thought it was just lust. But during the fourth season i really think she loved him. It wasn't about lust anymore. She chose to be evil to be with him. She gave up being a witch which was important to her and gave up being with her sisters to be with him. Even at the beginning of the fifth season before he went crazy, she wasn't over him.
I've always wondered what could have happened if she had the chance to start something with Cupid from the second season. I liked him. Also, i wish if she had more time with Billy Zain's character. Those two, Cupid and Drake had potentials.
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Post by ljones on Sept 10, 2009 14:40:34 GMT -5
I believe that Phoebe was in love with Cole. But I think that she loved her own idealistic views on romance even more and wanted Cole to adhere to them. I suspect that all of the sisters and their mother were like this.
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 11, 2009 12:01:04 GMT -5
I don't reply this way to you very often, ljones, but I can completely agree with this, which is one of many reason why I think that "Forever Charmed" is Piper's delusion as she dies along with the other two and the Jenkinses after the explosion in "Kill Bille, Vol 2." With them feeling that way, there's no way all three of them would have happy endings, getting exactly what they really want--Phoebe's three daughters, Henry being able to accept Paige as both a mother and a whitelighter with charges, and Leo happy to be Piper's little errand boy while she keeps her powers. One of them happening, that would've made sense, even two, but all three?? NO WAY!
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Post by ~B@MeLiSsA30@B~ on Sept 12, 2009 14:02:13 GMT -5
It's really hard to say Es. That's the way it came across sometimes, especially after she got that vision of being pregnant in the future.
IMP though, when it came to Coop. I always felt that connection between the two, but she didn't allow her heart to go that way because she didn't think it was possible cause he was a cupid. Once Chris & Wyatt made it clear that they did get married, had a child, and that's the reason the Elders sent him to her, she opened her heart because she now knows its possible to be with him.
After Cole, who would blame her not for wanting to fall in love with someone who isn't mortal. I don't think it was more than physical attraction why she married Coop. As I said, I felt that connection between the two, and she didn't even have to say a word.
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Post by marienomad on Sept 13, 2009 0:19:05 GMT -5
It's really hard to say Es. That's the way it came across sometimes, especially after she got that vision of being pregnant in the future. IMP though, when it came to Coop. I always felt that connection between the two, but she didn't allow her heart to go that way because she didn't think it was possible cause he was a cupid. Once Chris & Wyatt made it clear that they did get married, had a child, and that's the reason the Elders sent him to her, she opened her heart because she now knows its possible to be with him. After Cole, who would blame her not for wanting to fall in love with someone who isn't mortal. I don't think it was more than physical attraction why she married Coop. As I said, I felt that connection between the two, and she didn't even have to say a word. Wait, are you saying that's it's okay to fall in love with a guy if people from the future says it's okay? That's kinda lame. I mean, look at Dex. The only reason Phoebe chased after him was because she had a premonition about her getting married to him which turns out to be because of a spell. In fact, Phoebe seemed to rely on premonitions and advice from people in the future after Jason to fall in love. Not falling in love with others because you want to take a chance. Phoebe seemed to always take the safe route after Jason. Why? |
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 13, 2009 9:39:00 GMT -5
Because she'd been hurt and was scared, that's obvious.
And like what ljones said, she wanted a fairy-tale relationship so she could live happily ever after. Only hearing from someone from the future or her premonitions did she think she'd get one.
Too bad Kern gave her that happy ending and that he didn't give her the dose of reality that she needed so badly. Although since we never saw Phoebe and Coop after she had that third baby, I still think he left her shortly afterwards--IF Forever Charmed really happened, of course.
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Post by marienomad on Sept 13, 2009 10:11:55 GMT -5
Because she'd been hurt and was scared, that's obvious. I don't blame Phoebe for being scared but some times you have to fight your fear and jump into the unknown. Phoebe and Coop would have a better romance if she could just fall in love and not know if it would work or not. Love is all about believing. Like with Paige believing that Henry would accept her as a witch or Piper believing that Leo can be with her despite being a powerless mortal. |
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Post by ljones on Sept 13, 2009 11:21:35 GMT -5
I'm going to confess. I am not a great fan of the Piper/Leo relationship for reasons of my own. But if there is one thing I have always admired about their story is that they did not have a fairy-tale romance. Superficially, they did. Which would explain why Prue had invested so much in their marriage in S3. And I know that many fans were frustrated or upset over the separations and other problems that Piper and Leo had faced following their marriage. But that aspect has never bothered me. Because Piper and Leo had to WORK at making their relationship work against all odds. This is something that Phoebe has never tried with her romances, save Cole. And even with Cole, her attempts at making it work were superficial. At least to me.
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 13, 2009 13:22:46 GMT -5
When in God's name did Piper and Leo ever have to WORK on their relationship once they were married? The single exception was going to councilling after Wyatt's birth and obviously neither of them continued to use what they learned there. Fate (aka Kern's doofy plotlines, always set up to make us feel sorry for Piper, not proud of her as I would had she worked on her relationship) always seemed to bring them back together--not work on their part--you never once saw them apologize for what they'd done wrong.
Yes, before they were married, Piper and Leo fought to get married, as did Phoebe and Cole fighting to be together during Season Three. But after Season Three, I didn't see any of The Charmed Ones actually working on any of their relationships, always waiting for outside forces to either fix their relationship or end them. That's why I truly think the only way they would all end up happy ever after is in Piper's dream as she dies along with the other two.
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Obviously the show snuck those things under the radar and then the censors got more finicky, especially once you got past the pilot episode. The spell that Phoebe chants that brings back their power is also based on the full Wiccan rede:
